More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[FarangCravings]

WOW one black shirt well that justifys all the civilians killed

you are aware are you not of the grenades and petrol bombs being lobbed at the soldiers?

that there are persons in the rally area shooting at soldiers?

not to mention the bricks, paving stones, slingshots, etc.

what constitutes a civilian in this case?

The military snipers if any good could easily pick off the guys in black that has a weapon any red that is armed with a rifle handgun etc ok take him out however if he is throwing stones molotov cocktails, slingshots you CANNOT JUSTIFY murdering them plain and simple.

However we are not seeing guys in black are we we are seeing civilians medic and journalists being shot by the military

Ever taken a molotv cocktail to the face? how about a stone to the forehead or marble slingshot into your pea brain? They don't need to justify sh**! Surrender, go home or stay put sitting on your hands but advance towards the military with ANY kind of weapon and ANYWHERE in the world under a this kind of emergency situation and soldiers, national guard whatever are going to put you down plain and simple.

The crap above posted by a known troll about medics and journos getting shot by military doesn't even deserve a response

What utter rubbish so you think in th euk they would start murdering demonstrators i dont think so dude

looks like your the troll

[Insight]

So we have one armed blackshirt.. One guy shooting a Grenade.. And the army guys in the truck..

Versus..

100's possibly 1000's of youtube clips of army firing, including BBC, Al Jazera, CNN, and 100's of blogers and people on the street..

Like I said ONE black shirt guy with a rifle OK take him out but the killings of civilians shootings of Journalists, medics and children is just way out of whack.

But those on here all it takes is one video of one guy with a rifle to try and justify the murderous campaign the goverment is running

You think these guys want to get spotted? What do think all the tyre burning is about? Bit of coordination going on there...

[whiterussian]

....Motorcycles going in both directions - some against the flow of traffic.

back to normal then

georgebkk According to @forestmat - civilians are pinned down by a sniper at Victory Monument

georgebkk Update: The sniper at Victory Monument has been spotted in Ratchawithi Hospital. /via @RichardBarrow @forestmat

Edited May 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[TAWP]

A ten years old ignored the warnings???

Collateral damage is just another word for killing of innocent civilians. It is military lingua, the languages of murderers. Not all of us here are soldiers or veterans, so please stick to the civilian word for it: MURDER.

In the US if you carry out a crime and another person dies during the event, even if by accident, then you are responsible fo that persons death.

If this event happened in the USA the driver would have been charged with murder of the boy.

But this is Thailand so the boys death will be deemed an accident.

What do you prefer?

[ChouDoufu]

however if he is throwing stones molotov cocktails, slingshots you CANNOT JUSTIFY murdering them plain and simple.

let's see...

state of emergency declared.

ongoing rioting.

live fire zone.

protesters behind barricades.

soldiers behind barricades.

protester approaches soldiers, attempts to throw petrol bomb.

what do you suggest would be the proper course of action for the soldier(s) on the receiving end of that throw?

[animatic]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

He got shot because a drunken red shirt tried to run a military roadblock. The soldiers opened fire on the van because it would not slow down or stop. What should the soldiers have done? The van could have been filled with explosives for all they knew. The blame for that child getting shot lies no where else than with the red shirts.

The kid got shot because the government ordered the use of live rounds. If you shot live rounds people die. Exactly that happened.

Sadly the child was collateral damage because he ignored warnings to leave the area.

Saying he was targeted by soldiers is a vicious and useless lie, since the truth IS known.

A ten years old ignored the warnings???

Collateral damage is just another word for killing of innocent civilians. It is military lingua, the languages of murderers. Not all of us here are soldiers or veterans, so please stick to the civilian word for it: MURDER.

Unintentional killing of innocent civilians.

Or 3rd degree manslaughter, death by misadvanture, accidental death, death during public inssurection.

Bottom line it wasn't intentional murder.

If the Reds obeyed the laws of Thailand,

the situation that caused this childs death would never have transpired.

[seahorse]

seems like they're offline already

not for me.........unfortunately

I can't access their site now. System overload or an ISP dependent thing? I'm on TOT. You wouldn't happen to have Loxinfo would you?

[Neurath]

Traffic now rushing the wrong way up Vipawadee-Rangsit away from Din Daeng. Traffic stopped outside Veterans General Hospital. Helicopter overhead.

[Abrak]

What a load of tosh, paid terrorists, evil billionaires, using women and children as a human shield

These are just your opinions. Respectable news stations try to stick to the facts which is why none of your content is reflected there.

Everyone knows the definition of terrorist by now so no need to go there and yes they are paid so what else can we call it? Do you think the blackshirts are out there for free? red shirt leaders wont get a big pay day if they pull this off? New stations report action and drama mate or a "good story" that's how they pay the bills. What fantasy land have you been living in where journos only report the facts? Fact: red shirt protesters have been paid and now the really nice part where payments are now being postponed to keep them staying there to BE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS and this has been reported you just don't want to accept it for whatever reason?

Actually there is one very good way of stopping them being used as human shields.

You get say 5000 soldiers and they go and clear out the camp unarmed. It is basically a rabble with lots of women and children. If the Reds choose to shoot unarmed soldiers then they will never be forgiven, I believe, by the Thais. If the soldiers go in there fully armed there is bound to be bloodshed. There are only about 3000 there, so professional soldiers should be able to clear the site. I cant believe even the most radical of Reds leaders would order the shooting of unarmed soldiers.

90% are innocent and the other 10% cannot justify violence against an orderly but unarmed force to end the protest.

[earthpig]

around 9-10pm last night i was on north of RatchaP on Pratunam Road near the Indra Hotel. Amazing scenes out of a movie: everything blacked out, a few residents scurrying about deathly scared of snipers and a red shirt guards crouching in the subsois. broken glass, and all sorts of barricades and broken bits scattered about the street from the earlier fighting.

The most interesting bit was talking to three local residents in a subsoi, all of whom said they didnt care for the Reds but now hate the army even more. They all mentioned a child apparently shot in the area, one mentioned a pregnant woman hit by a sniper. two said the government and the army cannot be buddhists.

it might have been the heat of the moment, of perhaps the goverment is shooting itself in the foot. i dont know.

also spoke to reds. young men, not ex army. some seemed very commited to the red cause; others escaping village boredom. two of them are either prepared to die facing the army or put on a hel_l of good show.

i made it as far as the indra but the road was blocked by barbed wire and out of nowhere a loudspeaker told me in thai not to approach any further.

rather unhelpfully, a man i hadnt seen in the dark crouching in his doorway then screamed "ai heeia" at the army post. it appears the soldiers didnt take it personally.

[TAWP]

So we have one armed blackshirt.. One guy shooting a Grenade.. And the army guys in the truck..

Versus..

100's possibly 1000's of youtube clips of army firing, including BBC, Al Jazera, CNN, and 100's of blogers and people on the street..

Your point is...that you are surprised that the military is using weapons, as announced, against criminals?

[26vinny]

so the army is still just surrounding them and not actually going in to the red camp. The reds are coming out to attack the army. What do they expect to happen to them? fair enough i say; cnn now say army is being attacked by gun and grenade, fair enough, the more terrorist they kill now the less to make trouble later! red leader should let all the kids out and stop to use them as shield; cowardly scum bags.

The only thing cowardly happening now is what the military are doing, they are shooting everybody,think about it , no military casualties, AMAZING UNHEARD OF anywhere in the world except of course Thailand

Whose got the weapons, as usual lets hide the truth, seems the only ones who know it are being persecuted for that fact.

keep it up you Window Warriors

[FarangCravings]

So we have one armed blackshirt.. One guy shooting a Grenade.. And the army guys in the truck..

Versus..

100's possibly 1000's of youtube clips of army firing, including BBC, Al Jazera, CNN, and 100's of blogers and people on the street..

Your point is...that you are surprised that the military is using weapons, as announced, against criminals?

UNARMED protesters Journalists etc you can see the video of them being shot unarmed you cannot deny it even shot while already hit and shot 2 more times while on the ground

NO EXCUSE

[seahorse]

Ordinary people are dying

Terrorists from an occupying army are dying.

Edited May 16, 2010 by seahorse

[FarangCravings]

Ordinary people are dying

Terrorists are dying.

Fixed your post.

I'll fix yours

Terrorists are usually armed

these are unarmed civilians being SHOT

Have not seen any guys in black shot as yet

[noel2499rk]

Latest in report contradicts CNN claim of 2 dead soldiers this from erawan medical centre 25 dead all civilians.

http://www.ems.bangkok.go.th/report/listdead%2014.00.pdf

What are these dangerous armed terrorists doing they have had 3 days of shooting grenades, m-16 rifles at army and have killed no one.

[Netfan]

What utter rubbish so you think in th euk they would start murdering demonstrators i dont think so dude

looks like your the troll

"murder"? as has been pointed out before, big difference between murder and protecting yourself and property. In natural disasters and civil disturbances it is common for police, army to be given "shoot to kill" orders for looters, rioters.

When rioters / gang members start to try and destroy the state, then extreme measures must be taken. This all could have been avoided - all of it, including April 10th- had the 3 Red leaders not been given the "red light" by their paymaster on Abhisit's proposal at their sit down.

[mic6ard]

This fiasco finally put the international community on the line, some have come out openly support Thaksin (Monte Negro, Dubai, Cambodia, etc) while some are walking the fence. UN leader Ban called for more talk, but is he really 'in the know', does he have all the facts? We sure don't.

Is it possible that the majority of the world actually back Thaksin? Or are they just responding to the media's question with standard 'let's have a talk' response. the government have tried to negotiate, with the last "road map" being the most promising, and acceptable. The Reds then drag their feet before responding with their some what outrageous demand which guaranteed total break down.

Having an election in November isn't too long to wait, unless you're not confident that you would win.

What's wrong with having a set of rules that every one agrees to? Why are the UDD leaders so adamant in having a fast election? Scared to lose?

I'm sure that all of us ,Thai, were confident that the mess would have finished when the two side talked a couple of months ago. But both were not being flexible.

Now the words on the street is that the Shinawatra family have left the country, Gen Chavalit and co have also left. What does that mean for the Red protestors? Their supposed 'leading figures' have apparently left them out to dry, how can they still follow these people. Thaksin might not be the leader of the UDD, but he's definitely the heart and soul of the group, with his phone in and all.

A question I want to ask the international community is, how can you let a wanted fugitive enter your country? Mr. Thaksin has been found guilty and yet he's entering and leaving various countries like a freeman. He's not even using fake IDs, people. If this is because they view him as the legitimate leader of Thailand then just come out and say it, don't ignore it.

[mommysboy]

What a load of tosh, paid terrorists, evil billionaires, using women and children as a human shield

These are just your opinions. Respectable news stations try to stick to the facts which is why none of your content is reflected there.

Everyone knows the definition of terrorist by now so no need to go there and yes they are paid so what else can we call it? Do you think the blackshirts are out there for free? red shirt leaders wont get a big pay day if they pull this off? New stations report action and drama mate or a "good story" that's how they pay the bills. What fantasy land have you been living in where journos only report the facts? Fact: red shirt protesters have been paid and now the really nice part where payments are now being postponed to keep them staying there to BE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS and this has been reported you just don't want to accept it for whatever reason?

Actually there is one very good way of stopping them being used as human shields.

You get say 5000 soldiers and they go and clear out the camp unarmed. It is basically a rabble with lots of women and children. If the Reds choose to shoot unarmed soldiers then they will never be forgiven, I believe, by the Thais. If the soldiers go in there fully armed there is bound to be bloodshed. There are only about 3000 there, so professional soldiers should be able to clear the site. I cant believe even the most radical of Reds leaders would order the shooting of unarmed soldiers.

90% are innocent and the other 10% cannot justify violence against an orderly but unarmed force to end the protest.

And in all honesty tear gas and tasers render most people absolutely immobile anyway, as do stun grenades, noise, and powerful water jets. I've long been of the opinion that, for some reason, powerful parties simply prefer to see this problem continue and even escalate.

Every time a plan is announced to secure or reduce part of the protest site, in fact even more expanse of land falls under army control, it is in fact the opposite effect. Now, a major economic centre like Pratunam is completely closed!

Armies fight wars, that is their job, and left to their own devices they'll do this unchecked. Army governments are never a good idea as has been well demonstrated again.

[agord]

Some of you people make me sick! Ordinary people are dying from the work of snipers, not terrorists. And who would be the employer of snipers????

chicken and the egg mate you want to be angry at someone how about the ones causing all of this? you are blaming the government for wanting to restore order in their capitol? rule of law and the 12 million plus people li ing with this daily bs mean nothing to you eh? You would allow this back home right totally normal for you I guess to have armed insurgents camp out for two months in London, Washington DC....Let's all try and remember your posts when the taliban or other whacko group camps out in your country I think you would be begging your army to put them down as soon as possible.

[TAWP]

So we have one armed blackshirt.. One guy shooting a Grenade.. And the army guys in the truck..

Versus..

100's possibly 1000's of youtube clips of army firing, including BBC, Al Jazera, CNN, and 100's of blogers and people on the street..

Your point is...that you are surprised that the military is using weapons, as announced, against criminals?

UNARMED protesters Journalists etc you can see the video of them being shot unarmed you cannot deny it even shot while already hit and shot 2 more times while on the ground

NO EXCUSE

Have you ever been in the armed service? Or with the police force or even security guard?

Fired a rifle?

A black-clad man crawling behind cover at a distance with other men (that actively throw things at the soldiers etc) isn't easily IDed as a journalist!

If he was more than a 'freelancer' he would have done what CNN and other outlets reporters did, sport a blue helmet and vest...

[Insight]

UNARMED protesters Journalists etc you can see the video of them being shot unarmed you cannot deny it even shot while already hit and shot 2 more times while on the ground

NO EXCUSE

At Rama 4 behind with mil. Very tense/quiet. Army spotting anyone moving and targeting them with M16/shotgun. Earlier incoming reported

Reckon guys like that blackshirt in the video are antagonising the army into firing then retreating.

You think that sniper at the hospital shooting at civilians in Victory Monument is from the army? And just how will that benefit them?

The plan is clearly to create all out fcking chaos and confusion. Get everybody off the streets everywhere seems like the only way to deal with this.

[pimay11]

Farang Cravings:

I guess you believe the goverment when they say they had nothing to do with it RIGHT

At least my cred is sinking the goverment lost theres a long time ago

You made the statement that the leader of the reds was assassinated by the government. It has nothing to do with what I, you or anyone on this planet believes or does not believe.

I simply asked you and I am asking again. Please back up your accusation with a link to the video of the shooter so all here can know you are not posting something that is only your opinion. Back up your post with proof. Is that so hard to understand my friend?

[dhrobertson]

I hope everyone reads the Editorial in the Bangkok Post by Voranai Vanijaka

At last.......the truth......we can only hope and pray that they listen

I really do not understand the policy of not posting articles from another popular English language newspaper.

As a result, I have to go and buy it instaed of The Nation.

The article quote is a must read!

[LivinLOS]

So we have one armed blackshirt.. One guy shooting a Grenade.. And the army guys in the truck..

Versus..

100's possibly 1000's of youtube clips of army firing, including BBC, Al Jazera, CNN, and 100's of blogers and people on the street..

Like I said ONE black shirt guy with a rifle OK take him out but the killings of civilians shootings of Journalists, medics and children is just way out of whack.

But those on here all it takes is one video of one guy with a rifle to try and justify the murderous campaign the goverment is running

You think these guys want to get spotted? What do think all the tyre burning is about? Bit of coordination going on there...

And how many people have cameras.. Cell phones.. other portable recording devices..

[FarangCravings]

This fiasco finally put the international community on the line, some have come out openly support Thaksin (Monte Negro, Dubai, Cambodia, etc) while some are walking the fence. UN leader Ban called for more talk, but is he really 'in the know', does he have all the facts? We sure don't.

Is it possible that the majority of the world actually back Thaksin? Or are they just responding to the media's question with standard 'let's have a talk' response. the government have tried to negotiate, with the last "road map" being the most promising, and acceptable. The Reds then drag their feet before responding with their some what outrageous demand which guaranteed total break down.

Having an election in November isn't too long to wait, unless you're not confident that you would win.

What's wrong with having a set of rules that every one agrees to? Why are the UDD leaders so adamant in having a fast election? Scared to lose?

I'm sure that all of us ,Thai, were confident that the mess would have finished when the two side talked a couple of months ago. But both were not being flexible.

Now the words on the street is that the Shinawatra family have left the country, Gen Chavalit and co have also left. What does that mean for the Red protestors? Their supposed 'leading figures' have apparently left them out to dry, how can they still follow these people. Thaksin might not be the leader of the UDD, but he's definitely the heart and soul of the group, with his phone in and all.

A question I want to ask the international community is, how can you let a wanted fugitive enter your country? Mr. Thaksin has been found guilty and yet he's entering and leaving various countries like a freeman. He's not even using fake IDs, people. If this is because they view him as the legitimate leader of Thailand then just come out and say it, don't ignore it.

Because the world has NO RESPECT for thailand and its blatant singling out of Thaksin for a minor corruption case when every single one of the thai MP could have been prosecuted for similar cases of corruption in one way or another but Thaksin was singled out because he was a threat to the yellows gaining control again so how can they win, stage a coup and prosecute him

Its just like the reds that have been jailed within 24 hours when the yellows form 2 years ago are still free awaiting trial

Its blatant one rule for one and another for the yellows

[balou]

Ordinary people are dying

Terrorists from an occupying army are dying.

@ Seahorse: Stick at your beer and do not care about things that are not your business.

Apparently you no not have a clue about what's happening there.

Edited May 16, 2010 by balou

[Jingthing]

I hope everyone reads the Editorial in the Bangkok Post by Voranai Vanijaka

At last.......the truth......we can only hope and pray that they listen

I really do not understand the policy of not posting articles from another popular English language newspaper.

As a result, I have to go and buy it instaed of The Nation.

The article quote is a must read!

No need to buy it as its online. I agree it is a MUST read. Please do read it.

[rametindallas]

deleted --- post didn't make it through the server

I am STILL amazed that the reds themselves can do no wrong in the eyes of so many. It doesn't matter that their leaders publicly call for violence. that their leaders declare war on the government. That they are armed. that they contain or have been infiltrated by terrorists. ......

Some people are just red to the core --- it doesn't matter to them how much damage the reds do to Thailand.

If you rember when Dr. Taksin was in office he was very media savvy. Surely he is paying people to post on all media using meny guises. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the regular poster on this forum are in his employ. It would certainly explain the irrationality, persistence, and brazeness of some of the postings.

[seahorse]

Most of the people here,even in this forum, are adversely affected by this situation. I have been told I have to turn up to work tomorrow even though the ONLY way I could possibily get there now is to walk the 10+km to the school AND in that walk I have to pass the areas that are currently closed and where there is fighting going on. As a result of this whole situation my medical insurance AND my life insurance are NOT VALID and as such if I was injured I would have a bill. My Embassy is not interested if I go into areas that are unsafe.In fact they are not interested anyway (the idea being I chose to stay here so it is my responsibility to look after myself). So what do all the experts propose I do? Cant live if I cant earn an income and cant leave right now as transport routes are unsafe....Next????

I am no expert but...

All schools in Bangkok delayed start of term to Monday 27th. Stay at home. Be safe.