Thai Troops Violate Law In Bangkok Action: Amnesty

[senti]

The fact is that women, children have been killed by the Thai army. I doubt that that 10 year old was shooting grenades at the army. Even reporters from The Nation have reported seeing a women shot in the head while she was overlooking the riots.

Red cross helper get shot and killed. This is not even suppose to happen in a war zone.

These are things that are not excusable. Ok the people are stupid for walking around in these areas. But a child is a child and a women is a women. Not so difficult to see by the army soldiers or snipers.

Seh Daeng Killed by a sniper bullet...

He may have not be a decent person but if an army sniper shot him i would call this excessive force no?

3 reporters where shot! How many time do you hear this in other conflicts?

Ok innocent people will always get hurt in these situations.

Amnesty International is a widely respected organisation.

Some people should look at the whole picture in stead of being yellow, red, pink or what ever color. There has been a staggering amount of deaths and casualty. While some might have been necessary many where not.

We are all human being imagine one of your family members being one of the victims.

How do you know that army shot all those people?

(just playing devil's advocate, because I am tired of these childish arguments)

[Arkady]

Thaksin's new lawyer bowled out for a duck on Al Jazeera.

[offissa]

Acting like a child... an invalid point.

Thanks jcbangkok and Netfan. I expect this is the best one can expect from you when you get caught out posting inaccuracies.

It doesn't seem either invalid or childish to me when protesters are repeatedly accused of using deadly weapons against the forces of "Law and order" and when those claims are shown to be false, as in this case.

Particularly when these claims are used to excuse shooting unarmed civilians dead. And used to smear protesters as thugs and terrorists.

But carry on with your mealy-mouthed business about how threatening they are supposedly perceived to be by soldiers with high powered rifles if you want...

[passon]

Am- nasty - International - bunch of pencil neck self serving servants and do-good oxygen bandits trying to justify their enormous drain on donated funds and handouts for themselves. Maybe we can offer them to the reds as human shields!

You really need to grow up. Who are they servants to? How do they drain funds enormously, and how much do they give to themselves? And, why would you offer any human being as a human shield and then call someone else self serving? Seems like you used up a lot of oxygen with a post that scores zero on the substance meter!

[Ijustwannateach]

Acting like a child... an invalid point.

Thanks jcbangkok and Netfan. I expect this is the best one can expect from you when you get caught out posting inaccuracies.

It doesn't seem either invalid or childish to me when protesters are repeatedly accused of using deadly weapons against the forces of "Law and order" and when those claims are shown to be false, as in this case.

Particularly when these claims are used to excuse shooting unarmed civilians dead. And used to smear protesters as thugs and terrorists.

But carry on with your mealy-mouthed business about how threatening they are supposedly perceived to be by soldiers with high powered rifles if you want...

I am highlighting this post as an example of an inflammatorily outrageous statement here on the political threads.

I think we can all be pretty sure the 'red' faction and/or their terrorist collaborators/controllers have been attacking and killing soldiers. To claim that this had been 'disproven' is inflammatorily false.

Therefore this statement earns its poster a warning and posting holiday.

Further such outrageous claims in the face of factual reality will continue to be considered inflammatory and earn their posters penalties and holidays.

I, for one, have had enough of this style of either shilling or trolling, I don't care which one it is.

Shillers and trollers, up your game or lose your posting rights.

[englishoak]

I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

That would be taking a political stand and muddying the waters. And a lot of people seem to have lost sight of what is happening here. The government is supposed to be exemplary in its actions, not stooping to the levels of the opposition. Should British police start throwing petrol bombs at urban protests? When a governmental gives itself the power to shoot anyone without recourse to the law, we should be worried - as Amnesty clearly are. I know this statement will itself get shot down by a trigger-happy faction on this forum, who I am supposing left the USA because it wasn't right wing enough or because they could adopt an amoral lifestyle without recourse to anyone or anything but themselves.

At least someone gets it, of course there is the usual bleating here of the protesters did this and that, Amnesty is not looking at it with the same Ideology and be sure there are plenty in Bangkok they have spoken to. What does make me laugh is a lot of people here are calling the very photographers and reporters on site all stooges, come on get real we can see both sides are at at it but shooting paramedics and plenty of unarmed civilians which Ive seen at least 15 clips myself isn't going to impress anyone. There has been a way over the top reaction by the government. Amnesty can see it as can most of the world, whatever people say on here its unacceptable and whats more you wont find many outside Thailand looking on that do think the Gov are using the right methods of live fire so indiscriminately. Forget the excuse of propaganda etc by the reds to stage this so well its just a fact that the Government has goofed ( yet again ) and should be leading by example by talking far more than it did. After 5 days we are no longer closer to a solution and a lot have died or been hurt in that time. Time which could and should have been spent talking. They certainly do not value or respect human rights and Amnesty is correctly pointing that out.

Edited May 18, 2010 by englishoak

[senti]

Acting like a child... an invalid point.

Thanks jcbangkok and Netfan. I expect this is the best one can expect from you when you get caught out posting inaccuracies.

It doesn't seem either invalid or childish to me when protesters are repeatedly accused of using deadly weapons against the forces of "Law and order" and when those claims are shown to be false, as in this case.

Particularly when these claims are used to excuse shooting unarmed civilians dead. And used to smear protesters as thugs and terrorists.

But carry on with your mealy-mouthed business about how threatening they are supposedly perceived to be by soldiers with high powered rifles if you want...

Do you even understand what a deadly weapon is?

Ever saw a small firecracker explode in someone's hand? Ever saw a firecracker-rocket hit someone in head (football fans died because of this on few occasions)? Ever saw Molotov cocktail ending up on a human?

Why do people keep assuming that all the molotov cocktails, firecrackers and handguns are not deadly weapons?

After what happened on 10th of April, I am not surprised that army is acting like this.

[Rucharee]

Wow, this guy is the reason you hear all those lawyer jokes like if you had a gun and 2 bullets in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler and a lawyer who would you kill? The lawyer - twice.

I don't think any lawyer would be in a room with Bin Laden and Hitler, but I understand you.

And do the Yellows here still think Thaksin is the richest man in Thailand? Haven't they forgotten someone?

Unless you can name another person; YES, Thaksin is still the richest man.

I bet you a million to one that you cannot.

[CHdiver]

Here you can see some of the Brooom Sticks the Reds are using Red Shirts with Broom Sticks......or not?

[Jdietz]

Several sources reporting right now on troop movement. Is it finally on?

newmandala Email: 04.00 hrs Bangkok Wed. 40 armoured vehicles move out army barracks. Reds move vulnerable people to temple. #redshirts

@photo_journ: Report (unconfirmed) of 30 APCs departing KiaKai base Nonthaburi along expressway 4 Silom now #redshirts

@andrewspooner: NEWS ALERT Thai army are moving in on pro-democracy protest using tanks PLS RT

http://twitpic.com/1oytxt Troops boarding Abrahams APCs in Silom Rd near BKK Christian Hospital

Edited May 18, 2010 by Jdietz

[robert1001]

BANGKOK — Some of the city's grandest hotels are shut and ringed with coils of glittering razor wire. Foreign visitors have deserted its temples and backpacker haunts. Military roadblocks hem in some of its famous nightspots.

Arrivals at Bangkok's international airport are down by at least one-third, and hotel occupancy rates hover around 20 percent to 30 percent. Thai tourism industry, built on an image of gentleness, pleasure and smiles, is suffering its worst setback in decades — perhaps the worst in its history, according to tourism officials.

As scenes of the country's violent uprising have spread around the world — bombs and bodies, street fights and gunfire — people abroad are asking whether it is safe to visit Bangkok.

The brief answer, from embassies and security experts and even some people in the tourism industry, is: probably not right now.

At least 37 people have died in five days of fighting between the military and antigovernment demonstrators, known as the red shirts. Although the two sides may now be edging toward negotiations, the potential for more violence remains.

Forty-seven nations have told their citizens to be cautious about travel to Thailand, and several, including the United States, have warned them to stay away.

The violence has been confined so far to a relatively small, though central, area of Bangkok. But the city is tense. Roadblocks, checkpoints and shutdowns of public transportation have made travel difficult. Taxi drivers refuse to take passengers to some parts of the city.

On Saturday, the United States Embassy issued a warning that said, "All United States citizens should defer all travel to Bangkok and defer all nonessential travel to the rest of Thailand." It said all nonemergency government workers and their families were authorized to leave.

On Tuesday, the tourism authority of Thailand issued its own advisory, saying, "Visitors and tourists are advised to be vigilant, follow news developments, exercise extra caution and avoid areas covered by the declaration of a severe emergency situation" — areas that include not only the capital, Bangkok, but also 21 provinces.

In fact much of Bangkok is peaceful, as are virtually all parts of the provinces covered in the advisory, and many Thais are disturbed to see their country portrayed as a place of violence."When you get out from those areas of political turmoil, things seem to move as smoothly as ever," said Korakot Punlopruksa, a travel writer and photographer. "We still live peacefully, we still love good food, and the sea is still beautiful."

Thais try to break away from thoughts of the conflict, she said.

"Otherwise, we would go crazy."

On Khaosan Road, a low-budget haven that is far from the fighting, the calm weighed like a heavy cloud over half-empty bars and souvenir shops and hostels. Rows of three-wheeled tuk-tuk taxis stood idle in front of empty Internet cafes and foot-massage parlors.

[robert1001]

A friend just saw a Tank and about 20 trucks filled with troops.

Stay out of the area if you want to avoid the fight.

Or--run quickly to the area if you want to join it.

[hextac]

Wow, this guy is the reason you hear all those lawyer jokes like if you had a gun and 2 bullets in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler and a lawyer who would you kill? The lawyer - twice.

I don't think any lawyer would be in a room with Bin Laden and Hitler, but I understand you.

And do the Yellows here still think Thaksin is the richest man in Thailand? Haven't they forgotten someone?

Unless you can name another person; YES, Thaksin is still the richest man.

I bet you a million to one that you cannot.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/85/thaila...chest_Rank.html

[Siam Simon]

Acting like a child... an invalid point.

Thanks jcbangkok and Netfan. I expect this is the best one can expect from you when you get caught out posting inaccuracies.

It doesn't seem either invalid or childish to me when protesters are repeatedly accused of using deadly weapons against the forces of "Law and order" and when those claims are shown to be false, as in this case.

Particularly when these claims are used to excuse shooting unarmed civilians dead. And used to smear protesters as thugs and terrorists.

But carry on with your mealy-mouthed business about how threatening they are supposedly perceived to be by soldiers with high powered rifles if you want...

Do you even understand what a deadly weapon is?

Ever saw a small firecracker explode in someone's hand? Ever saw a firecracker-rocket hit someone in head (football fans died because of this on few occasions)? Ever saw Molotov cocktail ending up on a human?

Why do people keep assuming that all the molotov cocktails, firecrackers and handguns are not deadly weapons?

After what happened on 10th of April, I am not surprised that army is acting like this.

Ever saw an army bullet tear open someone's body?

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...e-killing-zone/

[toenail]

dont worry i dont know of any country that takes AI seriously.

What planet are you expats on?

Oh I can't wait for the elections, be such sweet revenge for reading all these right wing posts if the 'terrorists' win!

I give Ahbisit about a week before he gets booted out by the military, or until the death toll reaches 100 civilians. (I can only hope he gets booted out)

How vain is this man that would continue the slaughter from his bunker to keep his job! When the probability is he would never win a 'popular' vote! (according to just about every source I have read!)

- Now he wants the reds to return to the original site! Bwaah haah ahaa! Something has got to give.. and its Ahbisit!

***************************************

If this whole three month of "protesting" [which included blocking the Skytrain, independently creating your own road blocks to the city, taking over a hospital, throwing a frew grenades here and there, closing down a major business section ...(the list goes on);yet, being offered early elections (which the Red leaders turned down)] was in your country what you your military do? Sit on there <deleted>? I don't think so. (I don't think you know the whole story, mate)

[tigerfish]

just shown tanks and a heavy army presence being moved in over night(silom area), on one of the thai t.v. news programmes

Edited May 18, 2010 by tigerfish

[Siam Simon]

just shown tanks and a heavy army presence being moved in over night(silom area), on one of the thai t.v. news programmes

But surely tanks are just bluster unless the army intends to blow central Bangkok to smithereens?

[tigerfish]

just shown tanks and a heavy army presence being moved in over night(silom area), on one of the thai t.v. news programmes

But surely tanks are just bluster unless the army intends to blow central Bangkok to smithereens?

well from the looks of it, they dont look like they are there to party.

load speaker annoucements telling people to clear the area. so im told through someone translating for me.

[bangkokjohn]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Please consider this point - honestly. All of us have the luxury of sitting on our nice safe sofas studying the video and photo. is it a dustbin, could be. Now, consider the soldier 100 meters away facing the reds. Firecrackers go off, noise, smoke. This jerk stands up and - is it an automatic weapon or dustbin? You have a mili-second to decide. Any LEO or military guys out there ever been in that position? Easy to make the decision? No court would prosecute a soldier returning fire under those circumstances. And what was the guys point in doing that anyway? Simple - to draw fire. As my father used to say, its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

And as for Pulitzer- the photo of the kid being held above the tire wall has a much better chance.

I think I may have been the first to say this was a really amazing video as it looked like someone standing up and firing a machine gun, maybe we can let JC rest a bit.

But then it's even more amazing. What on earth is the guy doing? For what purpose? They are firing things, possibly grenades, we assume at the Army, the guy jumps up just as the firecrackers are going off, waves the dust bin or whatever rapidly and the drops like a stone in vacuum.

1. Is he trying to make the Army think he is shooting a machine gun (M16s/AK47s etc are also machine guns).

2. The handle is used as a tube to fire something like a roman candle?

3. He is mentally retarded or on ya ba?

4. It is an un-comprehensible Thai action?

5. __________________

He's a scrappy little guy trying to stop the army from coming into his soi and kill his friends and family. Not smart but brave.

[yoshiwara]

He's a scrappy little guy trying to stop the army from coming into his soi and kill his friends and family. Not smart but brave.

Doubt it.

The locals want them out.

[Jdietz]

It is on.

APC's on Silom flyover have opened fire- soldiers advance on foot, gas from chopper above, redshirts firing fireworks.

Really sounding like this is really the army crackdown which is starting at the southern end of the rally site at Rama IV.

[clockworkorange]

It is on.

APC's on Silom flyover have opened fire- soldiers advance on foot, gas from chopper above, redshirts firing fireworks.

Really sounding like this is really the army crackdown which is starting at the southern end of the rally site at Rama IV.

How very sad

[Heng]

just shown tanks and a heavy army presence being moved in over night(silom area), on one of the thai t.v. news programmes

But surely tanks are just bluster unless the army intends to blow central Bangkok to smithereens?

Confidence booster for the infantry while they get picked off by Red snipers, hoping that the Army snipers are better.

[JatujakShopper]

Sadly I have lost respect for Amnesty International, they are misinformed and out of touch with the reality here on the ground in Bangkok. Shame on them for getting it so wrong!

[HAL9000]

Obviously it takes someone outside the country to make a straight call as the foreigners who live here seem all enamored of government propaganda.

It would appear that the PM is but a puppet of a military dictatorship since the army has signed the financial freeze papers. No wonder there is no fear of a coup.

[asiawatcher]

Abhisit is delusional, and on very thin ice. In his unabating preaching about restoring the rule of law, he has forgotten all about the rules of international law. You don't indiscriminately fire live ammo at unarmed civilians, and you don't declare city streets that are still inhabited by ciivilians as free fire zones.

Unless Abhisit realises the error of his ways, and sits down to talk serious compromise, he could end up joining the ranks of war criminals lined up for trial at the Hague.

Sad - very sad - another misguided understanding by a forum member.

[bangkoklight]

Abhisit is delusional, and on very thin ice. In his unabating preaching about restoring the rule of law, he has forgotten all about the rules of international law. You don't indiscriminately fire live ammo at unarmed civilians, and you don't declare city streets that are still inhabited by ciivilians as free fire zones.

Unless Abhisit realises the error of his ways, and sits down to talk serious compromise, he could end up joining the ranks of war criminals lined up for trial at the Hague.

Exactly Clockwork - "live fire zones" in residential areas against a vast majority (99%) of unarmed protestors is a no no in international law. The Thai military have already been warned about using this term but they continued. Abhisit will be going to the Hague along with his deputy and commander. I know many human rights lawyers already making preparations.

[BKKDutchman1]

Any news on what is going on inside the area now? How about Langsuan? I have been hoping for a resolution for weeks, however I hope both sides will not endanger the hundreds / thousands of residents and hotelworkers still inside the area because their employers forced them to stay and work just to cater to suicidal residents and journalists...

[Ulysses G.]

Abhisit will be going to the Hague along with his deputy and commander. I know many human rights lawyers already making preparations.

They better get prison cells ready for every leader on Earth because no government would allow this kind of violent insurection.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Thaising]

Abhisit is delusional, and on very thin ice. In his unabating preaching about restoring the rule of law, he has forgotten all about the rules of international law. You don't indiscriminately fire live ammo at unarmed civilians, and you don't declare city streets that are still inhabited by ciivilians as free fire zones.

Unless Abhisit realises the error of his ways, and sits down to talk serious compromise, he could end up joining the ranks of war criminals lined up for trial at the Hague.

Exactly Clockwork - "live fire zones" in residential areas against a vast majority (99%) of unarmed protestors is a no no in international law. The Thai military have already been warned about using this term but they continued. Abhisit will be going to the Hague along with his deputy and commander. I know many human rights lawyers already making preparations.

By putting up sign that say " Live Fire Zone " it means the government are using Psychological warfare tactics to frighten protesters from getting near the soldiers bunker.