Thai Political Violence Far From Over: Analysts

[erniebanks]

Peace returns to Bangkok, but trouble looms

10:30am EDT

By Jason Szep and Ambika Ahuja - Analysis

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Order is returning to Bangkok after nine weeks of the worst political violence in modern Thai history, but more clashes or a larger insurrection loom ahead unless authorities quell anger at the heart of recent protests.

Without major reforms to a political system protesters claim favors an "establishment elite" over the rural masses, this week's bloody dispersal of protesters occupying Bangkok's commercial heart won't end a polarizing political crisis and could add fuel to the fire.

The "red shirt" protest movement's figurehead, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a graft-convicted populist billionaire ousted in a 2006 coup, told Reuters the army's tough dispersal of protesters could spawn guerrilla warfare.

Analysts say he may be right.

"The suppression of the demonstrations does not in any way end the movement, or at least the sentiments and patronage networks behind it," said Duncan McCargo, a University of Leeds professor of Southeast Asian politics.

But after more than two months of unrest that has killed 81 people and wounded more than 1,800, most expect a lull in the violence as the protesters regroup. Its leadership, run by a trio calling themselves the "three stooges" -- adopting a name given them by the government -- has fragmented with most in custody.

In Bangkok, where their festive, flag-waving rallies in March began to win over middle classes, the red shirts are now reviled after their six-week occupation of the city's commercial heart culminated in a night of arson that terrified the city of 15 million people and destroyed property worth millions of dollars.

Residents gasped and some cried as television footage showed Central World, Southeast Asia's second-biggest department store, gutted and nearly destroyed in smoldering ruins.

But in the heartlands of the north and northeast, a Thaksin stronghold home to just over half of Thailand's 67 million people, images of Bangkok burning drew cheers -- an unleashed violence that including the storming of the governor's house in Chiang Mai, the region's largest city.

That's why Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his royalist backers should worry, analysts say.

"The people in the provinces aren't likely to shed any tears for the fact that some rich punk in Bangkok can no longer shop at Central World, when dozens of people 'like them' lay dead at the hands of the government," said Federico Ferrara, a political science professor at the National University of Singapore.

"There could be a bit of a lull in their activities now, but I would expect that if the government keeps their leaders in jail, it won't be long before this turns into another cause celebre," he added.

RURAL DISCONTENT

The high-profile arrest of the protest leaders, some accused of terrorism by the government, could embolden the movement over the longer term by playing to their argument they are victims of double standards in a society that favors the elite.

Laying siege to an area to dislodge governments has become a way of life in Thai politics. In 2008, yellow-shirted protesters who opposed Thaksin's allies in the previous government occupied the prime minister's office for three months and then blockaded Bangkok's main airport until a court expelled the government.

Instead of going to jail, one of the figures of that movement, Kasit Piromya, went on to become foreign minister.

Cases like that are at the heart of the discontent among the rural and urban poor in a country where the richest 20 percent of the population earn about 55 percent of the income while the poorest fifth get 4 percent.

"Not much has changed in terms of the support for the red shirts' among parts of the population. They rioted last year and it turned into a much worse riot this year. That shows the underlying problem remains and has not been addressed by those in power," said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist. "But without a strong central leadership, it's going to be difficult for them to regroup any time soon," he said.

"The radicals will likely go underground. The organization may keep going in the provinces led by their own regional leaders who have their own news outlets and their own views on what's going on."

A bigger question is why is this all happening now.

Continues here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64J46P20100520

LaoPo

Thank You for that interesting read.

[toptuan]

something to think about

Suthikiart Jirathiwat and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra....

Something else to think about: Despite many requests for poster JUCEL to own up to the source of this post, he continues to ignore them. Instead of the information we seek, we get deflective and arrogant responses such as "I would prefer you view on the matter rather than your fastidious observation!"

In my opinion this poster has completely discredited himself on ThaiVisa. For myself, the "ignore" function on this forum is an appropriate response.*

(* "My Controls" --> "Manage Ignored Users" --> enter poster's name in "add a new user to your list" field)

Edited May 21, 2010 by toptuan

[whybother]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools. Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes. Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

What you don't realise, is that many of the anti-redshirt posters are NOT anti-poor. Many live in the N/NE (not me, but GF's family does).

As an anti-redshirt poster, I am against the corruption of Thaksin, his puppet parties and the red shirt leaders. This red-shirt protest was not about democracy or the poor. It was just a power struggle of the rich. The reds have no plans to help the poor. They have no plans to improve democracy (we can see their form of democracy when ever someone tries to speak out against them).

The current government is not perfect, but they are on the right track. The PTP, as the representatives for most of the N/NE, need to use democratic processes in parliament to make sure the government lives up to it's promises.

Democracy isn't a minority mob demanding a government to step down. Democracy isn't paying people to vote for you and stopping opposition from campaigning in some areas. Democracy isn't a coup, either, but that can't be changed. An election has occurred. A party has been disbanded for cheating. Another party may be disbanded also. People need to move forward from that, not cheat in elections, and allow everyone to campaign, so that there can be a free and fair election.

The peaceful protestors have been allowed to go home. The violent thugs are being rounded up.

Things won't improve for the poor overnight, but no government could make it happen any faster. Thaksin was there for 5 years, and all he did was give some cash handouts, get the poor further into debt, and ride on the coat tails of an improving global economy.

[chainarong]

The reds in our neighbourhood aren't wearing red anymore.

Neither would I , if Thaksin and Co are terrorists, so are all the red shirts, by default , members of parliment ,the political party , the whole lot of them can be charged as terrorists, solve the problem, change tee shirts.

[rametindallas]

something to think about

Suthikiart Jirathiwat and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra....

Something else to think about: Despite many requests for poster JUCEL to own up to the source of this post, he continues to ignore them. Instead of the information we seek, we get deflective and arrogant responses such as "I would prefer you view on the matter rather than your fastidious observation!"

In my opinion this poster has completely discredited himself on ThaiVisa. For myself, the "ignore" function on this forum is an appropriate response.*

(* "My Controls" --> "Manage Ignored Users" --> enter poster's name in "add a new user to your list" field)

or you click on the poster's name and under 'profile' click 'options' then choose 'ignore' then click on 'update ignore list'

[canuckamuck]

Difficult times ahead for Thailand. It must be obvious to even the dullest, that the potential for a radicalized probably (socialist) movement to develop in the Redshirt heartland is very high. They maybe clueless, they maybe disorganized and under educated, but how much of a brain is required to strap on a bomb or take a gun to town.

Yes I sympathize with the problems of the marginalized majority in this country, but that does not make them any less dangerous. The way forward is through respecting the rule of law and the democratic process, but how can the multitudes be expected to embrace lawfulness when the ruling class continually disregards this process.

The root of this scenario is not the divide between rich and poor, but the fact that Thailand lives behind a facade of morality and right living, while engaging and rewarding corruption at every junction. This is country that accepts deception and cronyism as an adequate defense. This is a country that refuses to hold peers accountable, that embraces ‘face’ as the ultimate personal right. And in doing so eliminates all progressive avenues, preferring instead to turn a blind eye.

The catalyst in this lies in the education of the youth, who from a very early age discover that cheating is an appropriate path to success. And the education system is further degraded by promoting not only a distorted history and model of Thai society, but a cut and paste format of learning which all but eliminates the creative process and the ability for logical thought. Year after year former bright children are churned out from the nation’s diploma mills, prepared only to fit into automaton roles that do nothing but solidify the prison of the class system.

Those who wield power have expensive western educations and know all too well the mind wasting power present in the national system. They make sure that their own children are safe from the effects by enrolling them in private and foreign schools. It is a situation similar to ants and bees where certain grubs are fed specific food which insures that only they grow wings, while the rest become machinery.

Today we are seeing the results with a population incapable of creating a workable solution, incapable of seeing through propaganda and hate speech, a people with no real world examples of ethical choices. We also see a power struggle caused by too many big dogs let off of their chains. In the next decade Thailand will have to begin to reform this model, because feudalism always fails and the symptoms of collapse are clearly visible.

[brahmburgers]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.....

Yes. I understand that students need to buy new books each year. Second hand books aren't allowed. I've read it's something to do with the suppliers of the books paying the right people. This needs to be corrected.

I've mentioned that same concept about supposedly 'free education' (it's not free). Besides new books each year, there has to be new uniforms, new shoes, new carrying bags, etc etc. Some kids simply don't go to school because those expenses are overwhelming for parents. Plus kids could be more useful as sidewalk vendors.

Here's an heretofore unmentioned item that would help the poor in a BIG WAY:

Thrift stores. Thais, like all Asians, look down upon 2nd hand items (ghosts, etc), but farang don't have such self-limitations. Even rich farang enjoy shopping at thrift stores. If real thrift stores were available throughout Thailand, the poor would spend 50% less than they currently do. Retailers would cry foul, but tough tamales.

[way2muchcoffee]

Division is clearly part of their plan. What the government needs to do is not just busing them back to where they were right away. But to re-educate them. Many of them will be enlightened and even become excellent human resource for democracy. Failing to do so will only allow Thaksin to continue planting seeds of hatred.

From the 20th century onwards, Siam gradually consolidated its control over Isan through a programme of "Thaification". The introduction of a national school system in the 1920s replaced instruction by monks in the Isan Lao language with teaching in the Thai language only. Radio and television, when they began, also broadcast in Thai. They included (and still do) twice daily broadcasts of the national anthem.

Even after the Revolution in 1932, which the democratic rule started, Isan had been ignored from newly 'democratic' Thai government. Most of the region was underdeveloped. Apparently new or necessary infrastructure were hardly built. Albeit the biggest part of Thailand, until now, there are still only two railways in the region and most of modern paved roads were built in the sixties and seventies.

Looks like they already tried that ...... it hasn't worked.

The big problem is 66 percent of the Thai nationals are from Issan, so really they should be in charge .... and unless someone wants to do a bit of ethnic cleansing and kill off all the people from Issan, they will keep winning elections, then be ousted by coup, etc.

The traditional way of dealing with a conquered people is

1) kill all the men

2) have your army impregnate all the women

or like they did in Cambodia.

That's simply not true. According to the 2000 census only 34.2% of Thailand's population hails from the NE Region. If the Northern Region is included it jumps to 53%. It should also be noted that not every person in the north and northeast is a PTP supporter. You should do a little bit of research before posting inaccurate numbers to support a political position.

http://web.nso.go.th/pop2000/prelim_e.htm

[way2muchcoffee]

Well all I can say is Mrs Redshirt (my wife not from Issan) is working hard to provide an education for herself and her 12 year old daughter.

After she married me, I started putting her through highschool, her daughter through highschool, and then probably both of them through university.

But not all the poor Thai ladies can find (or want) a white man to marry, how would you suggest the rest of the poor (family income of 4000bht a month) manage to send their children to school beyond age 12?

I believe your post fully justifies the redshirt cause, the Thai middle classes and higher classes refuse to help their poorer countrymen (against the teachings of their own religion) and so must be forced into civilization (and democracy?) to achieve parity with the rest of the world.

Education is free through Mathayom 6 now, thanks to the Abhisit government. My extended family lives in Surin. Just last week they picked up their free textbooks and the government stipend to purchase uniforms. There is no tuition. Lunch is provided through primary school.

As far as university there are government loans available to anyone who asks. I myself took out substantial government loans to pay for my university education.

You seem to know very little about Thailand despite living here and being married to a Thai woman.

[elcent]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Yes. I understand that students need to buy new books each year. Second hand books aren't allowed. I've read it's something to do with the suppliers of the books paying the right people.

This needs to be corrected.

same-same

[way2muchcoffee]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools. Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes. Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

I don't believe you. If you did pay 4000 bt then someone in your family is pocketing that money. The government this year has begun paying for all uniforms and textbooks. There are no fees. I know this for a fact as my extended family has school-aged children living in Surin and they recently enrolled in school for this year. In previous years I gladly helped with school startup expenses for the kids in my extended family. This is the first year that it wasn't necessary.

Edited May 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[pornsasi]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools. Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes. Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

How true !!!!

[SomchaiCNX]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

They are taken advantage of by their own people, nothing to do with the middle class in BKK not helping them. They think that the situation you are in now has to do with bad Karma from a former live. That's why a lot of people think it is not their business. People in BKK are not the ones they vote for (or are paid to vote for). It is there local representative that they should be grilling and not blame it on any body else.

As soon as a Thai reach another level he will start to copy all the other people from the same level and take over their bad attitude.

4000 baht is about 333 baht a month. 6 Packages of cigarettes, 2 bottles of alcohol, a couple pills of Ya ba. The problem with is that when they have 100 baht they will spend 120 baht when they have 200 bath they will spend 250 bath, when they have 10.000 they will spend 13.000. In the urge to get rich fast they start to gamble and stay poor. There is no such thing as becoming rich fast in an honnest way. Determination and working hard but in a smart way with a lot of self discipline will work out fine. But it needs at least two generations because of the bad influence and the lack of motivation around them. They are spoiled by a good climate that provides them with food all year round, so they never trained themselves to look more than a day ahead (no winter nor extended periods of no food available). Training and education (not only from school) is the only way out. You are doing it right now with your wife and her girl, that's the first step in the right direction but please use you energy for them and not for blaming others. It is easy if you make 100 you safe 30, if you make 200 you safe 100 etc etc. That's exactly the thing the Chinese do.

Even if they have access to money they would waste it on stupid things. Remember the gold medal winners? Most of them are even poorer than before. Thais should grown up.

[sarahsbloke]

I don't believe you. If you did pay 4000 bt then someone in your family is pocketing that money. The government this year has begun paying for all uniforms and textbooks. There are no fees. I know this for a fact as my extended family has school-aged children living in Surin and they recently enrolled in school for this year. In previous years I gladly helped with school startup expenses for the kids in my extended family. This is the first year that it wasn't necessary.

I went along to the school with my wife, talked with the teacher who sold the uniforms, she filled in all the forms, talked mainly in Thai, most of which I could understand. I gave her 1600 for 2 school uniforms, 2 pairs of shoes, a guides uniform and two track suits, with accessories. On the first day at school I paid the 800bht for her books, I have still to pay the 800bht for the traditional Thai dress for religious days. It didn't appear to be a scam. This week I paid 60bht for 6 notebooks. I didn't see anything out-of-order, I'm not one of the poor ..... 4000bht is nothing to me. At the school lunch is free, breakfast isn't, I give my step-daughter 20bht each school day for pocket money.

My wife goes to Sunday highschool, this is almost entirely free, so far 50bht for notebooks.

The problem with is that when they have 100 baht they will spend 120 baht when they have 200 bath they will spend 250 bath, when they have 10.000 they will spend 13.000.

This is completely true, Thai people seem to have no money management skills at all. My wife would spend all I have in a very short time if I were to allow it. In this behaviour she doesn't appear to be all that different to all the other Thai ladies I have met, what you have you spend immediately.

Edited May 21, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[pornsasi]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

They are taken advantage of by their own people, nothing to do with the middle class in BKK not helping them. They think that the situation you are in now has to do with bad Karma from a former live. That's why a lot of people think it is not their business. People in BKK are not the ones they vote for (or are paid to vote for). It is there local representative that they should be grilling and not blame it on any body else.

As soon as a Thai reach another level he will start to copy all the other people from the same level and take over their bad attitude.

4000 baht is about 333 baht a month. 6 Packages of cigarettes, 2 bottles of alcohol, a couple pills of Ya ba. The problem with is that when they have 100 baht they will spend 120 baht when they have 200 bath they will spend 250 bath, when they have 10.000 they will spend 13.000. In the urge to get rich fast they start to gamble and stay poor. There is no such thing as becoming rich fast in an honnest way. Determination and working hard but in a smart way with a lot of self discipline will work out fine. But it needs at least two generations because of the bad influence and the lack of motivation around them. They are spoiled by a good climate that provides them with food all year round, so they never trained themselves to look more than a day ahead (no winter nor extended periods of no food available). Training and education (not only from school) is the only way out. You are doing it right now with your wife and her girl, that's the first step in the right direction but please use you energy for them and not for blaming others. It is easy if you make 100 you safe 30, if you make 200 you safe 100 etc etc. That's exactly the thing the Chinese do.

Even if they have access to money they would waste it on stupid things. Remember the gold medal winners? Most of them are even poorer than before. Thais should grown up.

One can find many excuses . There are many smart people in Isaan , a majority , that dont gamble , or drink .

And save every b they can for their kids education . I know that very well .

You have a completely biased opinion of Isaan people , wonder if yu have ever been there .

And right now the situation is not improving ...

[hammered]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools. Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes. Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

Stereotyping and assuming that people want to die because they are poor is wrong. I would suggest you spend time in a poor farm area preferably one that is well away from farangs, and also spend years and years making sure the people trust you before they will tell you what they really think and then listen and dont assume and dont try using western logic to understand.

Just because people are poor doesnt mean they want to die. Plenty of places too where education is free to almost free and you will also find Thai poltics is not the main consdieration of the people.

You will also find plenty (not all though) of farmers who think the red shirt leaders should be punished as long as you arent in an area where the so called red schools have been doing their work. This is far more complicated than any academic, journo or analyst decribes it western or local.

Stereotyping people is just plain wrong and saying people who commit crimes shouldnt be punished because soemone is poor is lunacy

[hammered]

Well all I can say is Mrs Redshirt (my wife not from Issan) is working hard to provide an education for herself and her 12 year old daughter.

After she married me, I started putting her through highschool, her daughter through highschool, and then probably both of them through university.

But not all the poor Thai ladies can find (or want) a white man to marry, how would you suggest the rest of the poor (family income of 4000bht a month) manage to send their children to school beyond age 12?

I believe your post fully justifies the redshirt cause, the Thai middle classes and higher classes refuse to help their poorer countrymen (against the teachings of their own religion) and so must be forced into civilization (and democracy?) to achieve parity with the rest of the world.

Education is free through Mathayom 6 now, thanks to the Abhisit government. My extended family lives in Surin. Just last week they picked up their free textbooks and the government stipend to purchase uniforms. There is no tuition. Lunch is provided through primary school.

As far as university there are government loans available to anyone who asks. I myself took out substantial government loans to pay for my university education.

You seem to know very little about Thailand despite living here and being married to a Thai woman.

This is exactly how it works in every town and village I know of. I gues it is possible that in places controlled by the PTP locally they make sure schools charge people laods of money so they can say Bangkok doesn nothing to help.

That is their usual modus operandi in local government where despite the current government having sent 3 times as much to the rural areas little to nothin goes to the locals. Truth is in those areas PTP cvpontrols thwey dont want people being rewarded by Bangkok and thanking other parties. The government sends the money to the local authority and the local authoprity led by the PTP feudal warlords syphon off the money and say look BKK never sends anything hate Abhisit. Then they get 10% of what they syphoned off out of their pocket and say but look I will help you by building a new raod, digging a well etc etc. The government if they want to avoid having central money used this way to build the hate campaign need to find other methods of distribution.

There is also another little time bomb seemingly about to go off as it suspected some PAOs used the money disbursed to them to administer provinces to fund the red rallies. The theory was when they won the new PTP government would make up what was spent. However........

[lungmi]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools. Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes. Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

I stay in a province where most people are poorer than in Esaarn (20% Hill tribes and refugees from Burma). We have the highest number of health stations, agricultural cooperatives with own rice mills. The red mouvement exists in some small towns. Why? Under Chuan Leek Pai the developement started (Democrat MP's all over the time), was blocked under PM Thaksin. He needed the money for his voters, and forgot other provinces.

[rixalex]

Now I'm guessing here, but I would bet that all the anti-redshirt posters have no idea about the living conditions of the poor in Thailand, or the poverty of the rural schools.

Just a quick point concerning your assertion that anti-redshirts are out of touch with the poor. I think you will find that the vast majority of "anti-reds" are not in any way anti the red followers - well the peaceful ones anyway - what they are anti is the red movement, because they believe that its claim to be fighting on behalf of the poor is a complete sham.

Go and live on a Thai farm with no proper toilets, no running water and a mud road outside for a week and then post about how the redshirts should be punished for their crimes.

Poverty is i'm afraid no defense for crime - it might help explain it but it doesn't help excuse it. Plenty of poor people respect the law. Those who don't should be punished.

Many of them probably think being shot is a merciful end to the misery they are facing.

You question other people's understanding of the poor in Thailand, but this statement makes me wonder about yours. The poor rural Thais that i have met live a very simple and basic life but do so with smiles on their faces and for the most part are reasonably content. Of course like most people in life, they might have aspirations to improve their lot, but that doesn't mean they don't have pride and satisfaction in their modest circumstances.

I've met far more miserable wealthy people than i have poor.

[SomchaiCNX]

The Abhisit government have made education free to the age of at least 15 ... maybe 18.

I paid about 4000 bht for the books and uniforms at the free government school this semester.

If I were only earning 4000bht a month, this would have been a problem .... and the girl would more than likely be peeling tobacco leaves on the farm, with everyone elses 12 year olds.

They are taken advantage of by their own people, nothing to do with the middle class in BKK not helping them. They think that the situation you are in now has to do with bad Karma from a former live. That's why a lot of people think it is not their business. People in BKK are not the ones they vote for (or are paid to vote for). It is there local representative that they should be grilling and not blame it on any body else.

As soon as a Thai reach another level he will start to copy all the other people from the same level and take over their bad attitude.

4000 baht is about 333 baht a month. 6 Packages of cigarettes, 2 bottles of alcohol, a couple pills of Ya ba. The problem with is that when they have 100 baht they will spend 120 baht when they have 200 bath they will spend 250 bath, when they have 10.000 they will spend 13.000. In the urge to get rich fast they start to gamble and stay poor. There is no such thing as becoming rich fast in an honnest way. Determination and working hard but in a smart way with a lot of self discipline will work out fine. But it needs at least two generations because of the bad influence and the lack of motivation around them. They are spoiled by a good climate that provides them with food all year round, so they never trained themselves to look more than a day ahead (no winter nor extended periods of no food available). Training and education (not only from school) is the only way out. You are doing it right now with your wife and her girl, that's the first step in the right direction but please use you energy for them and not for blaming others. It is easy if you make 100 you safe 30, if you make 200 you safe 100 etc etc. That's exactly the thing the Chinese do.

Even if they have access to money they would waste it on stupid things. Remember the gold medal winners? Most of them are even poorer than before. Thais should grown up.

One can find many excuses . There are many smart people in Isaan , a majority , that dont gamble , or drink .

And save every b they can for their kids education . I know that very well .

You have a completely biased opinion of Isaan people , wonder if yu have ever been there .

And right now the situation is not improving ...

Where did I talk about people in Isaan? Where did I tell they are stupid?

Do you think people in Isaan are the only poor people in Thailand?

By the way not haveing a car, a motorbike nor having a TV means your are poor? Not to me anyway.

I know a lot of poor people who are actually richer than most of us here on T.V. but they do not sell their votes (some of them are even not allowed to vote) nor do they blame others but they have food on the table every day.

Be honnest.

Make a list of all the people voted in to office by these poor people during the last 30 years. (none of them are from bkk)

None of them are poor, all of them have a lot of business interests and almost all of them got rich by stealing from these same poor people (budgets allocated to their provinece, district that ended up in their family owned business.)

I keep them stupid you keep them poor.

Your darling had to start with politics because he was loosing money to the (fair) competition as the people (MP's) he paid did not secure his business interests so he had do it himself.

Please don't make it complicated, because, if your are Thai you only have to blame yourself as I as a Fallang have no rights at all and I'm not allowed to vote even I pay more Tax than most of your fellow country men just because I'm farrang.

Have a nice day,

I will have start to work hard again so that my Thai employed people (some from Isaan) can make money again in the future.

[momentumwaves]

Topic

"Thai Violence Far From Over."

Nonsense being posted about 4 years ago as if that will somehow stop the violence now. I appreciate your right to post that stuff but what do you think will happen now?

Lots of Expats are worried about their future here in Thailand and this site is a wonderful help to those foreigners who live in Thailand. Will they lose their teaching jobs because the economy collapses? Will their businesses close down due to a lack of customers?

Is it safe to walk or drive yet?

Could the fighting continue with more fires and gun battles?

Does the government have a plan other than a Burma styled crackdown?

Is it even possible for their to be reconciliation now?

I know lots of farangs who are now, for the first time, thinking seriously about going home. They do not want their children to grow up in a place like this.

Too bad for all.

Congratulations, sir. This is one of the few posts I've seen on Thai forums, where real concern is expressed for the future in Thailand.

Abhisit seems to have won the immediate war in Bangkok. In so doing, and by using such incredible violent means, forced his opponents from a relatively peaceful protest, into an armed struggle. Only today, Abhisit's spokesman mentioned that elections will have to be delayed until the country returns to normal. I wonder how long that may be. Could be anyone's guess.

The red shirts have gone home whipped, chastised & injured, but not broken. They are seething with real hatred towards the current regime. This will have definite long-term effects on Thai society in general.

It would not surprise me to hear of a number of bombing and arson campaigns in major cities over the next few years as the civil war ramps up from the countryside. I'm not so sure Thailand will be such a nice place to live, in future.  

[pornsasi]

Topic

"Thai Violence Far From Over."

Nonsense being posted about 4 years ago as if that will somehow stop the violence now. I appreciate your right to post that stuff but what do you think will happen now?

Lots of Expats are worried about their future here in Thailand and this site is a wonderful help to those foreigners who live in Thailand. Will they lose their teaching jobs because the economy collapses? Will their businesses close down due to a lack of customers?

Is it safe to walk or drive yet?

Could the fighting continue with more fires and gun battles?

Does the government have a plan other than a Burma styled crackdown?

Is it even possible for their to be reconciliation now?

I know lots of farangs who are now, for the first time, thinking seriously about going home. They do not want their children to grow up in a place like this.

Too bad for all.

Congratulations, sir. This is one of the few posts I've seen on Thai forums, where real concern is expressed for the future in Thailand.

Abhisit seems to have won the immediate war in Bangkok. In so doing, and by using such incredible violent means, forced his opponents from a relatively peaceful protest, into an armed struggle. Only today, Abhisit's spokesman mentioned that elections will have to be delayed until the country returns to normal. I wonder how long that may be. Could be anyone's guess.

The red shirts have gone home whipped, chastised & injured, but not broken. They are seething with real hatred towards the current regime. This will have definite long-term effects on Thai society in general.

It would not surprise me to hear of a number of bombing and arson campaigns in major cities over the next few years as the civil war ramps up from the countryside. I'm not so sure Thailand will be such a nice place to live, in future.

i am afraid that you are right . This is not going to end soon .

I believe that Abhisit should call for elections as soon as possible .

Whether that will solve the problem or not is a wild guess for even if

the PTP wins those election there is always the possibility that

the elite will remove them for a 4th time in a row through a military coup

or the courts .

[pornsasi]

Where did I talk about people in Isaan? Where did I tell they are stupid?

Do you think people in Isaan are the only poor people in Thailand?

By the way not haveing a car, a motorbike nor having a TV means your are poor? Not to me anyway.

I know a lot of poor people who are actually richer than most of us here on T.V. but they do not sell their votes (some of them are even not allowed to vote) nor do they blame others but they have food on the table every day.

Be honnest.

Make a list of all the people voted in to office by these poor people during the last 30 years. (none of them are from bkk)

None of them are poor, all of them have a lot of business interests and almost all of them got rich by stealing from these same poor people (budgets allocated to their provinece, district that ended up in their family owned business.)

I keep them stupid you keep them poor.

Your darling had to start with politics because he was loosing money to the (fair) competition as the people (MP's) he paid did not secure his business interests so he had do it himself.

Please don't make it complicated, because, if your are Thai you only have to blame yourself as I as a Fallang have no rights at all and I'm not allowed to vote even I pay more Tax than most of your fellow country men just because I'm farrang.

Have a nice day,

I will have start to work hard again so that my Thai employed people (some from Isaan) can make money again in the future.

My darling ? I am not pro Thaksin as a person AT ALL . And i speak from my experience .

I can tell you right now that Abhisit reputation in view of last events

has sunk completely in central thailand (Korat) . Not that it had been very

high before but i saw some mood change when he did his roadmap proposal.

Ppl started listen to him .

That clearly was his idea , for the rest i believe him beeing a puppet PM .

[nakachalet]

No time to read all 5 Pages. I hope some bright sparks mentioned Thailand is heading for a break up into, at least, 3 countries!

It's a matter of published record I predicted these events and the criticism at the time is also on record. Over and over again I warned the red movement was underestimated. I tried to ewxplain it was like a beach where the water had gone, that the tsunami was coming.

Thaksin could have dropped into a hole and the events would have occured. I visited University professors and Rep from the KPI to offer Remedies that would have certainly stopped the demonstrations from happening.

If they want stability and peace, within weeks, they will, finally, listen to the ONLY POSSIBLE way out, The Joseph Solution.

Thailand could be a G30 Nation within 5 to 10 years!

no time to read....

but got time to post....

and make reference to some solution which is broken....?

hummmmm.... really something for you to think about.... only when you find some time, alright.... maniac....?

Edited May 21, 2010 by nakachalet

[way2muchcoffee]

I don't believe you. If you did pay 4000 bt then someone in your family is pocketing that money. The government this year has begun paying for all uniforms and textbooks. There are no fees. I know this for a fact as my extended family has school-aged children living in Surin and they recently enrolled in school for this year. In previous years I gladly helped with school startup expenses for the kids in my extended family. This is the first year that it wasn't necessary.

I went along to the school with my wife, talked with the teacher who sold the uniforms, she filled in all the forms, talked mainly in Thai, most of which I could understand. I gave her 1600 for 2 school uniforms, 2 pairs of shoes, a guides uniform and two track suits, with accessories. On the first day at school I paid the 800bht for her books, I have still to pay the 800bht for the traditional Thai dress for religious days. It didn't appear to be a scam. This week I paid 60bht for 6 notebooks. I didn't see anything out-of-order, I'm not one of the poor ..... 4000bht is nothing to me. At the school lunch is free, breakfast isn't, I give my step-daughter 20bht each school day for pocket money.

My wife goes to Sunday highschool, this is almost entirely free, so far 50bht for notebooks.

The problem with is that when they have 100 baht they will spend 120 baht when they have 200 bath they will spend 250 bath, when they have 10.000 they will spend 13.000.

This is completely true, Thai people seem to have no money management skills at all. My wife would spend all I have in a very short time if I were to allow it. In this behaviour she doesn't appear to be all that different to all the other Thai ladies I have met, what you have you spend immediately.

First I must then apologize for the accusation.

I am bewildered by your experience though. As I say, my family didn't have to pay anything at all for textbooks. There were no fees. They were also given 450 bt per child to cover uniform expenses. The uniform, purchased in town, ran about 550 bt so they did have to kick in 100 bt. This was at a high school located about 12 km outside of Surin Ampher Muang.

I can only speculate what is going on in your school district. Perhaps school administrators are pocketing government funds for uniforms and textbooks. Perhaps the provincial Ministry of Education offices are corrupt. Perhaps the provincial MoE offices are inefficient and haven't disbursed the money to the schools. I really have no explanation. I think you should report this to the MoE office in your province immediately. You should also contact the main MoE office in Bangkok.

Edited May 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Lite Beer]

I can tell you right now that Abhisit reputation in view of last events

has sunk completely in central thailand (Korat) . Not that it had been very

high before but i saw some mood change when he did his roadmap proposal.

Pornsasi, seeing as how you are posting from Malaysia you must have some very special powers if you can see the mood of the people in Korat.

[A_Traveller]

Strangely it would appear that 'Khun' Pornsai has left the building, leaving just scorch marks on the keyboard.... in Malaysia ...

Thanks LB

Edited May 21, 2010 by A_Traveller

[rixalex]

i am afraid that you are right . This is not going to end soon .

I believe that Abhisit should call for elections as soon as possible .

Whether that will solve the problem or not is a wild guess for even if

the PTP wins those election there is always the possibility that

the elite will remove them for a 4th time in a row through a military coup

or the courts .

You moan about the elite and the military unfairly interfering with democracy but yet you support it being interfered with by a tiny minority of the population aggressively and violently protesting in the streets. I fail to see the difference. Abhisit is legally in power. Anyone who sincerely believes in democracy, would believe in him being allowed to see out his term. And if his term is cut short, it should be because he as PM decides so, not a mob being led by a criminal.

[LaoPo]

Bangkok Begins to Restore Order

excerpt:

In addition to rebuilding the damaged neighborhoods of Bangkok, analysts said the government should quickly reach out to try to quell some of the anger that helped trigger the protest.

That should include calling elections soon so those dissatisfied with the current situation can vent their anger through a vote rather than violence, said Somchai Phagapasvivat, a Bangkok-based political and economic analyst. The government has to "try to isolate the hard-core [groups] and reconcile with the peaceful elements," he said. "They have to draw up a road map to more participation" in government by the groups that feel left out.

—Wilawan Watcharasakwet contributed to this article.

From:

The Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405..._MIDDLENewsIntl

LaoPo

After every riotous activity the reds use this as a justification to push Thaksin's agenda which is to get control of the army leadership appointments.

As do you.

Reconcile with the peaceful elements?

We have yet to see that.

However, Thaksin's time line is now in flames.

So save your breath.

ever heard of messengers, in this case an article by The Wall Street Journal, just in case you didn't notice ?

Everyone who doesn't walk in your lane is called a red apologist; the only colors you know are BLACK & WHITE.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

something to think about

Suthikiart Jirathiwat and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra....

Something else to think about: Despite many requests for poster JUCEL to own up to the source of this post, he continues to ignore them. Instead of the information we seek, we get deflective and arrogant responses such as "I would prefer you view on the matter rather than your fastidious observation!"

In my opinion this poster has completely discredited himself on ThaiVisa. For myself, the "ignore" function on this forum is an appropriate response.*

(* "My Controls" --> "Manage Ignored Users" --> enter poster's name in "add a new user to your list" field)

I agree with you Toptuan, for the first part.

However, putting another member on ignore is not the way to develop a discussion, whether someone is correct or incorrect. In a democratic society, everyone has a voice, but to close a door is not the solution, trying to find the truth.

I was also interested in finding the truth with this chap but if he refrains from answering, by choice or absence...life goes on; shutting the door by putting him on ignore won't deliver you the answers.

LaoPo