Bangkok Will Rise Like A Phoenix

[chadintheusa]

With the opening of MRT Subway this Sunday, let's hope that this is a signal of normality returning to Bangkok. (via @RichardBarrow)

I think what he meant to say was normalcy

The pedants will always be with us.

OED has normality as a word on its own - the primary meaning being the normal state.

OED has normalcy as a word, principally in N Amer., under the fifth meaning of the word normal, and gives its meaning as normality.

So, unless Richard was writing primarily for the N. Americans, he probably meant what he wrote.

- Another pedant -

I meant it as a joke, I do have access to a dictionary, but I know how people on this forum can't resist arguing about trivial matters, just wanted if I could revive the normality vs normalcy debate that raged on about a week ago. They mean the same thing, sort of like Red shirt protester, and Thaksin disciple are synonyms.

[prakhonchai nick]

yep, bangkok will rise like a pheonix and the baht will drop like a stone to the £..... probably. how bad must the UK economy be to continue to loose ground to the baht....?

If only!

[SomTumTiger]

They mean the same thing, sort of like Red shirt protester, and Thaksin disciple are synonyms.

Not protester - terrorist.

[whybother]

The OP article is two-faced. The writer's assignment was to try and write as cheery an article as possible. Yet, even with that cherry picking attitude, it couldn't help but mention the grave harm that has been done recently.

One of the basic tenets of Buddhism is to do no harm. Added to that would be the idea of awareness and compassion - none of those attributes were shown by the so-called Buddhists who bankrolled or led the recent protests.

Thousands of regular people, mostly those residing in Bangkok, have been adversely affected. Many will be evicted from their residences, won't have enough to eat, won't have enough money for basic items and tuition and loan payment obligations. Those are just some of the people harmed by the Shinawatre funded idiots who commandeered downtown Bangkok for weeks.

Many Thais are "so-called Buddhists". Very much like Christian "C and E's" (Christmas and Easter).

The only reason many Thai's are "Buddhist" is because the people around them are. In the villages, a lot of people go to the temple because that's what is expected of them. In the cities, you don't get that peer group pressure, so, as a percentage, fewer actually go to the temples, and fewer really understand what Buddhism is about.

[chadintheusa]

yep, bangkok will rise like a pheonix and the baht will drop like a stone to the £..... probably. how bad must the UK economy be to continue to loose ground to the baht....?

If only!

Some Britons certainly are upset that they can't get as much for the pound as they used to. Guess that they can't drink as much now.

[Thai at Heart]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

Don't panic.

Actually in a way, the post is correct though.

This difficult time is a test for Bangkokians to show our spirit, to show that we will rise. And each and every one of us can contribute to the rebuilding process. We cannot wait for the government, which has limited resources, to deal with this loss. We must unite to rebuild the city that we love and care for

.

Isn't the newspaper called "The Nation", not "The "Bangkok"?

To Phetaroi, I wouldn't worry about an article like this stirring up more trouble, the circulation of the Nation doesn't make a ripple nationwide.

[hkt83100]

I want to go out and help to rebuild, clean up the city...

Be careful! I wanted to do the same after Tsunami in Phuket, but foreigners were told they needed a work permit for helping to clear the rubble

[cpofc]

Whilst breaking the curfew and sitting in the Soi with my Thai mates demolishing a bottle of Benmore, naturally the conversation centred around this weeks events downtown. My question was, 'Where to from here fellars?'

I was reminded of May 1992. (I wasn't here at that particular time, I, my (Thai) Wife and family were in Oz when this happened). I also have some Thai friends who were Students during this period of upheavel and were involved in the protests, who still sometimes sit around with their guitars playing and singing some of the protest songs of the day..

On a scale. May 1992, was pretty bad and alot worse than what happened this May. There were hundreds of 1000's of anti govt protesters. It was pretty bloody and damned brutal. Does anyone know what the real death toll was?

They managed to get over that and move forward when many doubted they would, or could. They even became an 'Asian Tiger' in the process.

So my friends basically told me, what the author of the article is saying.

I would not be so quick to write Thailand off. What's wrong with a bit of optimism anyway?

Bangkok is my home, and home is where i want to be.

[whybother]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

You might be right, but I think the Red leadership will have their hands full for a long time to come, with legal fights, the typical Thaksin "Fleeing the country to avoid prosecution" response, and the huge stigma of having burned down large areas in Bangkok. Their strength, really, was an illusion, bought and paid for by Thaksin. This was never a grassroots "Power to the people" campaign. If that was the case, they wouldn't have need to have been paid to attend.

I don't think there will be a regrouping for a while.

It is just going to be the continuing RED DEMOCRACY. Grenade attacks and violence on other politicians and other groups that don't have the same "ideals" as the reds.

This is not about rich and poor. It never has been. The leaders of the reds are all very rich. The village leaders in the red areas are all rich. The poor in non-red areas are not protesting. There was no uprising by the poor against the government when the army moved in. This government are doing as much, or more, than Thaksin did for the poor, except without the fanfare and the cash handouts.

This isn't about "democracy" either. The reds aren't about democracy. During this protest, the reds talked about freedom of speech, but whenever there were any anti-red protests, the reds threatened, or actually attacked, those protests. They stop any opposing views from being aired in red areas. They stop any non-red politicians from campaigning in the red areas. Outside the red heartlands in the N/NE, where everyone is free to campaign, the reds do not have much support.

Thaksin worked out how to exploit the poor in the N/NE to his advantage. He, and the red leaders, are continuing to exploit them, all just for their own power and greed.

[siam2007]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

this article is not naive, it just reflects the positive attitude of 99% of the people (including us Farang living here) here in Bangkok who look forward and are ready to rebuild this ecxiting city, both the structures as well as the reputation.....

if such positive attitude makes u vomit, we r all happy to see you leave as soon as possible.... but leave forever, please.....

[cyberia]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

To me it's very troubling to see the PM preaching that all is well in the LOS.

Life is back to normal, mai pen rai.

Plz, don't tell me, show me.

The images on TV are disturbing. With the army troops and armored vehicles rolling around the city and bomb squads

searching for explosives I can hardy, if at all, call it normal.

My Thai friends from other parts of thailand who were supposed to come visit soon, now all saying they will have to postpone their trip.

I also talk to people in HK, Taiwan and Malaysia. Malaysian woman said they Malaysians are shocked at what happened.

She was also planning her trip to Thailand soon and go to go Hua Hin. Canceled.

A HK woman who comes to Thailand 4 times a year said 'No Way" even though I tried to tell her that it was not so bad (well I lied, sorry)

My good friend from Taipei will still come, probably??, but she told me she was very scared .

Those people I mentioned watch TV and read the news, they have good jobs and care about their safety.

I totally understand their concerns and their reasons. And they are not alone.

I don't know what has to be done to reassure all of them that it's indeed SAFE to travel to Thailand.

Free visas won't fly, thank you.

Sad indeed and what's more , it doesn't look like there is a clear plan in place to fix the WHOLE mess.

Edited May 22, 2010 by cyberia

[phetaroi]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

Well, thank you for that kind response. I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it.

Despite what I take as your optimism, I rather expect a mini-economic depression to develop. The international moving company just left and we asked them if we were the only one leaving. The supervisor's response was that they are flooded with moving requests, having to hire extra crews for the loads, and still can't keep up with demand -- virtually all from foreigners who work in international companies here in Bangkok and other provinces. He said they were turning customers away, something they have never experienced before.

My condo-rental complex has only 29 units on Suk Soi 24. Since things approached the crisis point 6 of those 29 units emptied out...mostly Japanese families working here. Let's see...previously a 100% occupancy rate dropped down 20% in just about a month. And I understand more are coming because one of the Japanese companies may withdraw from Thailand completely.

Even my Thai partner -- usually a Thai optimist -- says this is far from over.

Okay, I won't let the door hit me in the ass...I hope it doesn't hit you in the face.

[Portlandstone]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

In general I agree, and it seems the Bangkok'ites are quick to further increase the loss of face on the Reds' side.  The better way to heal would be to let everything quiet down, but not two days later and they are beating the drums.

Thaivisa.com has obviously been pushing a lot of these very pro-government Editorials front-and-centre, not only as individual threads but even bombarding the "live updates" with them.  You get more Opinion pieces than reportage in many.

The Bangkokians are quick to show they either do not understand why these Red shirts protested in the first place, or enjoy acting as though they don't.  They want everything status-quo, and the PM and his authorities will continue to label the protesters as "crazy" and "criminals," showing who is really clueless or acts that way.

[garyshadforth]

As an Australian who loves visiting Thailand I take an omniscience stance.

I cry for the lovely people of this nation blessed with a rich culture of history and friendliness unique to no other country.

Over the past weeks I have witnessed the land of smiles become one of frowns and tears. I keep asking why? Thailand does not deserve this.

Thus, I cry for Thailand and live in the hope that all of her citizens return to being united as one big family nation and the beautiful smiles quickly return.

[phetaroi]

Actually in a way, the post is correct though.

This difficult time is a test for Bangkokians to show our spirit, to show that we will rise. And each and every one of us can contribute to the rebuilding process. We cannot wait for the government, which has limited resources, to deal with this loss. We must unite to rebuild the city that we love and care for

.

Isn't the newspaper called "The Nation", not "The "Bangkok"?

To Phetaroi, I wouldn't worry about an article like this stirring up more trouble, the circulation of the Nation doesn't make a ripple nationwide.

Oh, let me restate a bit. The article doesn't bother me in the sense that it will in and of itself cause more problems. You're absolutely correct...circulation of this newspaper to the red shirts is irrelevant.

What bothers me about the article is that it's that "the sun is shining again" attitude even though nothing has changed...except that a lot of people have been hurt, angered, saddened, been awakened, etc.

One of the best articles I have read is this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/world/asia/21bangkok.html

What worries me is that too many people -- both Thai and farang alike are wearing awfully dark tinted rose-colored glasses. While it is true that things are rarely as bad as they seem, it is also true that things are rarely as good as they seem.

[gemini81]

yep, bangkok will rise like a pheonix and the baht will drop like a stone to the £..... probably. how bad must the UK economy be to continue to loose ground to the baht....?

you get a lot for of baht for your pound, what are you whining about?!

[agord]

With the opening of MRT Subway this Sunday, let's hope that this is a signal of normality returning to Bangkok. (via @RichardBarrow)

I think what he meant to say was normalcy

we had this debate before on another thread - it's normality unless you are in the USA and have your own version of English.

[Insight]

Most of the businesses that were destroyed were owned by "THE ELITE" and do you think they give a rats arse about their employees? Does anyone know of ANY shop that is financially helping the poor employees? All I have read is the people that cannot pay their rent are being kicked out etc.

Just who are these "ELITE" you're referring to!?! The city is in ruin by thugs and you're still giving us this pathetic PR spiel.

You can substitute the above sentence to a well known two-word saying.

[agord]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

this article is not naive, it just reflects the positive attitude of 99% of the people (including us Farang living here) here in Bangkok who look forward and are ready to rebuild this ecxiting city, both the structures as well as the reputation.....

if such positive attitude makes u vomit, we r all happy to see you leave as soon as possible.... but leave forever, please.....

seconded. many of us have made a home here and have families, friends & ties that are worth staying for. Sorry you retirement was disrupted.

[Thai at Heart]

Actually in a way, the post is correct though.

This difficult time is a test for Bangkokians to show our spirit, to show that we will rise. And each and every one of us can contribute to the rebuilding process. We cannot wait for the government, which has limited resources, to deal with this loss. We must unite to rebuild the city that we love and care for

.

Isn't the newspaper called "The Nation", not "The "Bangkok"?

To Phetaroi, I wouldn't worry about an article like this stirring up more trouble, the circulation of the Nation doesn't make a ripple nationwide.

Oh, let me restate a bit. The article doesn't bother me in the sense that it will in and of itself cause more problems. You're absolutely correct...circulation of this newspaper to the red shirts is irrelevant.

What bothers me about the article is that it's that "the sun is shining again" attitude even though nothing has changed...except that a lot of people have been hurt, angered, saddened, been awakened, etc.

One of the best articles I have read is this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/world/asia/21bangkok.html

What worries me is that too many people -- both Thai and farang alike are wearing awfully dark tinted rose-colored glasses. While it is true that things are rarely as bad as they seem, it is also true that things are rarely as good as they seem.

I don't disagree. Things could turn worse, although with a bit of reflection about what has happened may calm things down. Having Thaksin on the phone stirring up trouble won't help, but I don't think that the authorities will ever allow protests like this to take on such massive proportion in Bangkok ever again.

We said that a few years ago, and it caused chaos, so two strikes and you are out. No more mass protests with stages set up and portions of the city paralysed.

However, it is the "We Bangkokians" to show "our" spirit to the country that gets me about this article. People sometimes will just not get it. Aside from Thaksin, the problems are out there, the country has been divided for a long time and it needs healing.

We all know the heirarchy and how people treat each other here.

Bangkok looks down on everyone

Chiangmai thinks it can look down on Isaan

City dwellers in Isaan look down on the countryside

Everyone looks down on people who claim to work in Pattaya

Everyone universally dislikes "kaeks".

In a previous job I struck up a conversation with the thai (admittedly Thai/Chinese) boss. Bearing in mind my wife is from Khorat having met her whilst I was working in Isaan for a previous firm. She has a decent job and a masters degree.

"I am surprised meeting your wife how white skinned she is. I really didn't think they had people that white skinned from Isaan. But you know, all girls from Isaan want to marry a foreigner. Did you meet her while you were on holiday at the beach?"

Now, if someone had said that in most other contexts, you would flatten him wouldn't you. It took all my efforts to not smack this pillock right between the eyes. And this is the type of small minded idiocy that the country has to overcome. It has a long way to go.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[hammered]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

In general I agree, and it seems the Bangkok'ites are quick to further increase the loss of face on the Reds' side.  The better way to heal would be to let everything quiet down, but not two days later and they are beating the drums.

Thaivisa.com has obviously been pushing a lot of these very pro-government Editorials front-and-centre, not only as individual threads but even bombarding the "live updates" with them.  You get more Opinion pieces than reportage in many.

The Bangkokians are quick to show they either do not understand why these Red shirts protested in the first place, or enjoy acting as though they don't.  They want everything status-quo, and the PM and his authorities will continue to label the protesters as "crazy" and "criminals," showing who is really clueless or acts that way.

The government has to respond to legitimate demads of the red movement but not the red movement itself. That has now moved to terrorism at a leadership level and those advocting and financing it should be dealt with severely.

Of course Bangkokians want to see some revenge. That is only natural after they were affectively held hostage by a facist acting group for months and then saw organised arson attacks on many places. Ensuring security for them must be done too and dont forget they also saw the police force do nothing at all to protect them while helping those who were causing terror to many people. Even here in Chonburi many people stopped going to BKK for a month or so because they were scared of the red shirts.

The two parts terror and legitimate demands need delinking and being effectivley dealt with seperately as sepearate issues.

Hard on those whpo advocated terror and quick to address needs of the oppressed. Those two are not mutually exclusive and if done properly result in both Bangkokians and non-Bangkokians being happy

The government are likely going to have to seriously push extradition charges on Thaksin too not because he will likely be extraditied but because it will tiew him in legal knots and once again make it difficulkt to travel to places with treaties where a request will be handled legally through the courts. No doubt there is enough financial trail as the red leaders admitted he funded and guided them and apparently there are interviews where he basically backed violence

The other thing will be for the non-Thaksin camp to win an election in the next 18 months and that shouldnt be as hard as everyone thinks especially now those with lots of money are interested more in security and with financial dealings of many of the radical financiers halted. Having just spent time in poor farm areas in several provinces of the northern Region (not CM or CR) it was also noticeable that poltics was not of any interest to the people. There are opportunities for government if they do the right thing. The free education has already gone down well.

It all depends on hopw the players handle things.

[agord]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

In general I agree, and it seems the Bangkok'ites are quick to further increase the loss of face on the Reds' side. The better way to heal would be to let everything quiet down, but not two days later and they are beating the drums.

Thaivisa.com has obviously been pushing a lot of these very pro-government Editorials front-and-centre, not only as individual threads but even bombarding the "live updates" with them. You get more Opinion pieces than reportage in many.

The Bangkokians are quick to show they either do not understand why these Red shirts protested in the first place, or enjoy acting as though they don't. They want everything status-quo, and the PM and his authorities will continue to label the protesters as "crazy" and "criminals," showing who is really clueless or acts that way.

Seriously doubt that Bangkokians want things "status quo" eh do you mean they want things the way they were before the occupation? Yeah it's not crazy or criminal to burn down your nations capitol right? get a clue! have you even been to Siam Square? the shop owners there are hardly elite just normal people trying to make a living and in no way deserved this.

[EarthAlien]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

I understand your point and can empathize with your sentiments.

It's a shame that you feel compelled to leave but having said that I can fully understand it as I have decided to make plans to leave with my Thai wife and our young boys. We've lived here for 5 years now but this to me was a wake up call to reality and the fact that having a domestic living opportunity outside Thailand is essential. The process for us will take a little longer as we have a house to sell but certainly within the next 12 months we'll be setting something up back in NZ. Most likely we'll set up dual camps OS and in Thailand,..but with less reliance on having to live here and able to leave at a moments notice.

One driving force behind this move apart from a safety factor is the determination that my sons will not grow up inheriting the social malady of the "mai pen arai" mindset and the false logic and double standard/saving face way of thinking and behaving that is personified in the average Thai!

[Lancelot]

WE LOVE BANGKOK DAY!

Not only Thais but "farangs" love this city. It is our home. And when we all saw it being politically"interrupted" for two months, we tried to be tolerant. We acted civilized as one would in any DEMOCRACY. Not getting into a political debate here, but 99% of us would not approve of the damage the "thugs" did to damage OUR city. Not to sound sappy, or slurpy, or dramatic, it would be a good move if the city officials had "We Love Bangkok Day" where we would show up at Luphini park to show our support for a better, reconciled city . A gathering of all "Bangkokians" showing each other support would psychologically get us looking positive for BKK's future. Yes, though I am a "farang",this is where I work, this is where I live. I want to go out and help to rebuild, clean up the city... to feel that Bangkok has not been defeated by these barbarians that did damage to the city.

I wonder when we stop being "farengs". I have lived and worked here for many years...struggled with learning to read, write and speak the language, do volunteer and paid work, contribute to the country taxes and savings and live with my thai partner.

The same time that Asians stop being Asians.

I think he meant "When will the Thais truly accept me."

[simon43]

Rather than Bangkokians holding a 'We love Bangkok' day, they would be better to hold a 'We love Issan' day, to demonstrate that the people of Bangkok stand together with the people of Issan and all the rest of Thailand in their wish for an equal society.

Of course, it will never happen

Simon

[GarryP]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

In general I agree, and it seems the Bangkok'ites are quick to further increase the loss of face on the Reds' side. The better way to heal would be to let everything quiet down, but not two days later and they are beating the drums.

Thaivisa.com has obviously been pushing a lot of these very pro-government Editorials front-and-centre, not only as individual threads but even bombarding the "live updates" with them. You get more Opinion pieces than reportage in many.

The Bangkokians are quick to show they either do not understand why these Red shirts protested in the first place, or enjoy acting as though they don't. They want everything status-quo, and the PM and his authorities will continue to label the protesters as "crazy" and "criminals," showing who is really clueless or acts that way.

Seriously doubt that Bangkokians want things "status quo" eh do you mean they want things the way they were before the occupation? Yeah it's not crazy or criminal to burn down your nations capitol right? get a clue! have you even been to Siam Square? the shop owners there are hardly elite just normal people trying to make a living and in no way deserved this.

They are certainly not from the elite. What about those shop owners? Many of them will not have enough in savings to start from scratch straight away and how long will it take to get money from the gov't. In the meantime, what are they expected to do? They still need to eat, send kids to school, pay their rent or mortgages, etc.

"Crazy"?, no, but rational? When they have been undergoing 24 hour immersion in red rhetoric or glued to their red channel broadcasts they stop thinking rationally. Many of the protesters are normally very nice, friendly everyday people who become rabid fanatics when mention is made of any of their causes. This is very out of character for many of them and a result of targeted programing/brainwashing (or whatever the hel_l it is called).

Will Bangkok rise, yes, I believe so and sincerely hope so. But, there will be more hate than before, more bias against people from the North and North-East (particularly the latter). The us and them mentality will become the norm. All people from those regions will be painted with the same red brush, regardless of their true affiliations.

[way2muchcoffee]

In my opinion articles like this serve multiple purposes. By all measures the city and residents of Bangkok have been severely abused over these last months. They have been assaulted, violated, held hostage, inconvenienced, terrorized, robbed, looted, and finally burned. All the misery that was promised by red leadership has come true. It is therefore important that articles like these appear. Some of those reasons are as follows.

1) To calm the fears of the residents of BKK. It has been a harrowing experience. A siege mentality developed and people are scared. They need to have a sense of personal safety and security.

2) To keep people from turning to revenge. Anger and passions have been inflamed. These feelings are a natural consequence. They are normal, but people must learn to accept these feelings and not act in ways that will only further the divide in Thai society.

3) To prevent large numbers of formerly moderate people from allying themselves with hardcore yellow parties and other militant groupings. Moderates must ultimately win this war if Thai society is to change in ways that benefit all Thais.

4) To mentally prepare the many suffering and abused citizens for the reconciliation that must come if Thailand is to move forward in a positive way. Many will not like the compromises that will be necessary.

Edited May 22, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[robbieidng]

On the note of rebuilding, does anyone know if there is a group (or groups) or official centers that will be collecting donations of any sort to help out those displaced and unemployed?

Edited May 22, 2010 by robbieidng

[phetaroi]

I understand your point and can empathize with your sentiments.

It's a shame that you feel compelled to leave but having said that I can fully understand it as I have decided to make plans to leave with my Thai wife and our young boys. We've lived here for 5 years now but this to me was a wake up call to reality and the fact that having a domestic living opportunity outside Thailand is essential. The process for us will take a little longer as we have a house to sell but certainly within the next 12 months we'll be setting something up back in NZ. Most likely we'll set up dual camps OS and in Thailand,..but with less reliance on having to live here and able to leave at a moments notice.

One driving force behind this move apart from a safety factor is the determination that my sons will not grow up inheriting the social malady of the "mai pen arai" mindset and the false logic and double standard/saving face way of thinking and behaving that is personified in the average Thai!

Thank you for understanding what I am saying.

And I just want to point that I'm not saying everything about "mai pben rai" is bad. How I wish some in the States would say MPR to more things. My point with MPR is sort of the same for the western saying "Don't sweat the small things". The problem is that not all things are small things, and not everyone can perceive the difference between the proportional importance of things. Over the years, first visiting almost yearly for about 7 weeks at a time, and now living here for a year, I've seen a change in MPR. In the old days, too much MPR. Nowadays, depending on the person or group, not enough MPR.

[hyperlemon]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

Good to see a Positive thinker!