Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[Skywalker69]

Completly the opposite Rubl I say that abhisit should not have killed his own people. Now he has to beg and scrap to the world and prove he was right which is going to be very hard. Hitler lives in heavan compared to this man

I'm afraid we can only agree to disagree. Sorry.

By your post I understand you are a big fan of Hitler?

How did you get to that conclusion? Actually in 1944 my father living in Arnhem had to hide as 17 year old, in order not to be transported to the Ruhrgebiet (industrial area in Germany). His older brother was transported, but lucky. My uncle survived some bombardments and came home alive later 1945.

Sorry to hear that. I can´t understand why you think Hitler is in Heaven. Follow this link and watch the video of your peacefull and innocent reds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hsju-roFw

[Skywalker69]

Completly the opposite Rubl I say that abhisit should not have killed his own people. Now he has to beg and scrap to the world and prove he was right which is going to be very hard. Hitler lives in heavan compared to this man

I'm afraid we can only agree to disagree. Sorry.

By your post I understand you are a big fan of Hitler?

How did you get to that conclusion? Actually in 1944 my father living in Arnhem had to hide as 17 year old, in order not to be transported to the Ruhrgebiet (industrial area in Germany). His older brother was transported, but lucky. My uncle survived some bombardments and came home alive later 1945.

Sorry to hear that, I lost relatives thanks to Hitler as well. How can you even think that Hitler is in Heaven?

Watch the video and se your peacefull red protesters in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hsju-roFw

[SPQR]

It has to be said that Abhisit has played a blinder. Starting the dispute as an alleged puppet of those shadowy figures behind the scenes he showed initially great patience. But when RPGs were fired at a crowd of Bangkokians demonstrating against the Reds and demanding to be allowed to work he authorised an attempt to break up the demo.

THis resulted in 23 deaths and so negotiations were called and on National TV he offered the Reds what they wanted, an early election. THis must have horrified the puppeteers, but Abhisit made a judgment that it would be rejected. It was and from then on he had the moral high ground. Had he listened to the Hard Liners his cause would have been lost.

By ending the demo (insurrection) with (comparatively) little loss of life he has at one time thwarted the Red (Thaksin) ambitions and increased his own standing immeasurably not only amongst ordinary Thais but against those who thought that he was their puppet. His position is now unassailable.

A truly brilliant display of diplomacy that should ensure he wins an outright majority when the election comes around.

All in all the loser was Thaksin and the winner is Thailand.

This is all true and correct, as best I can tell. The PAD has re-assessed where they stand for an election, and Vejjajiva is their man. They know he looks very good to people of all stripes right now.

A couple of things I expect to see, from where the party discussions are going:

The voters that matter are the reds, that is where the majority of Thais want to cast their vote. The PAD knows they held a minority this new year. Now, of course the UDD coalition is broken, but the reds still want to follow representation that OPPOSES the PAD, if there is a viable choice. The UDD leadership had some authentic "people's candidate" players, not necessarily the loudest showboats in the bunch, but more sensible, and obviously more open to cooperation with the other large political factions with seats in parlaiment. The UDD leadership was too loose and diverse to present a unified front, even in the rallies. The mouthpiece leaders did not keep faith with the larger circle of senior members who brought them the big numbers. Neither did the leaders of he black cabal and the black guard keep faith with the greater circle of voices in the red movement.

That is over. Now, as the people try to regroup, the PAD could actually HELP them to form a better party organization, regardless of their opposite agendas.

The "people" who followed the reds do not have a citizen-statesman foundation. All sorts have joined the movement because it loosely aims at holding the sitting government accountable, but mostly the wrong sort - people who really do not care about the overwhelming majority of Thais - working poor who raft their incomes together within the family to pull off the miracle of surviving-in-style I admire them so much for.

The yellows, by contrast, are very organized. If they want real protection against this kind of ridiculous hijacking of politics that took place in the reds politcal movement, they could help the reds best leaders to organize with transparency and strength, and achieve daily communication among their members. Such capabilities would prevent the wrong factions from gaining control of the movement for the wrong purposes, as happened this year.

The notion is laughable to us, maybe, but might be possible on a fairly informal level for the Thais. That the poor majority, decently organized, has the votes to gain the mandate, has precedent. TRT leadership was pretty thin on authentic "people's candidates", though. And Thaksin did not seriously intend on empowering anyone else with good ideas within his own party. It was all for him. The reds are a very different collection arent they?

I think Abhisit sees the value in reaching out to some of them. He has already stated that he prefers an amnesty for the UDD membership without blood on themselves.

Lets see where this goes. June rallies are not to fear. They will be handled much differently by the

Army. I have been listening to the next-time-what-we-do discussions and there is new training already underway. They are acting surprisingly fast.

And the Black Cabal left some trails. The intel is very good, and hot. I expect to see some results popping very soon - and not where I had thought previously.

Dun Diao.

[cyberia]

So let me get it straight.

A "huge cache" of weapons was found but the Reds were using firecrackers and home made petrol bombs??

So, many deadly weapons, thousands of trained, blood thirsty terrorists and in the final crack down one solder has been killed?

Wow, reminds me of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, remember? the once that were ready to be be deployed, as T.Blair assured the word, in only 45 minutes.

Speechless

[rametindallas]

It has to be said that Abhisit has played a blinder. Starting the dispute as an alleged puppet of those shadowy figures behind the scenes he showed initially great patience. But when RPGs were fired at a crowd of Bangkokians demonstrating against the Reds and demanding to be allowed to work he authorised an attempt to break up the demo.

THis resulted in 23 deaths and so negotiations were called and on National TV he offered the Reds what they wanted, an early election. THis must have horrified the puppeteers, but Abhisit made a judgment that it would be rejected. It was and from then on he had the moral high ground. Had he listened to the Hard Liners his cause would have been lost.

By ending the demo (insurrection) with (comparatively) little loss of life he has at one time thwarted the Red (Thaksin) ambitions and increased his own standing immeasurably not only amongst ordinary Thais but against those who thought that he was their puppet. His position is now unassailable.

A truly brilliant display of diplomacy that should ensure he wins an outright majority when the election comes around.

All in all the loser was Thaksin and the winner is Thailand.

This is all true and correct, as best I can tell. The PAD has re-assessed where they stand for an election, and Vejjajiva is their man. They know he looks very good to people of all stripes right now.

A couple of things I expect to see, from where the party discussions are going:

The voters that matter are the reds, that is where the majority of Thais want to cast their vote. The PAD knows they held a minority this new year. Now, of course the UDD coalition is broken, but the reds still want to follow representation that OPPOSES the PAD, if there is a viable choice. The UDD leadership had some authentic "people's candidate" players, not necessarily the loudest showboats in the bunch, but more sensible, and obviously more open to cooperation with the other large political factions with seats in parlaiment. The UDD leadership was too loose and diverse to present a unified front, even in the rallies. The mouthpiece leaders did not keep faith with the larger circle of senior members who brought them the big numbers. Neither did the leaders of he black cabal and the black guard keep faith with the greater circle of voices in the red movement.

That is over. Now, as the people try to regroup, the PAD could actually HELP them to form a better party organization, regardless of their opposite agendas.

The "people" who followed the reds do not have a citizen-statesman foundation. All sorts have joined the movement because it loosely aims at holding the sitting government accountable, but mostly the wrong sort - people who really do not care about the overwhelming majority of Thais - working poor who raft their incomes together within the family to pull off the miracle of surviving-in-style I admire them so much for.

The yellows, by contrast, are very organized. If they want real protection against this kind of ridiculous hijacking of politics that took place in the reds politcal movement, they could help the reds best leaders to organize with transparency and strength, and achieve daily communication among their members. Such capabilities would prevent the wrong factions from gaining control of the movement for the wrong purposes, as happened this year.

The notion is laughable to us, maybe, but might be possible on a fairly informal level for the Thais. That the poor majority, decently organized, has the votes to gain the mandate, has precedent. TRT leadership was pretty thin on authentic "people's candidates", though. And Thaksin did not seriously intend on empowering anyone else with good ideas within his own party. It was all for him. The reds are a very different collection arent they?

I think Abhisit sees the value in reaching out to some of them. He has already stated that he prefers an amnesty for the UDD membership without blood on themselves.

Lets see where this goes. June rallies are not to fear. They will be handled much differently by the

Army. I have been listening to the next-time-what-we-do discussions and there is new training already underway. They are acting surprisingly fast.

And the Black Cabal left some trails. The intel is very good, and hot. I expect to see some results popping very soon - and not where I had thought previously.

Dun Diao.

I commend both your posts as reasoned opinions, well stated and the type of post that I come to this forum to read in spite of the trolls. Thank you both for setting the good example.

[Ulysses G.]

Completly the opposite Rubl I say that abhisit should not have killed his own people. Now he has to beg and scrap to the world and prove he was right which is going to be very hard. Hitler lives in heavan compared to this man

I'm afraid we can only agree to disagree. Sorry.

By your post I understand you are a big fan of Hitler?

How did you get to that conclusion? Actually in 1944 my father living in Arnhem had to hide as 17 year old, in order not to be transported to the Ruhrgebiet (industrial area in Germany). His older brother was transported, but lucky. My uncle survived some bombardments and came home alive later 1945.

Then why would you say something so amazingly absurd?

[dukkha]

http://www.alternet.org/world/146933/are_t...sham_revolution

[dominique355]

Funny, the degree of sympathy posters here have for the Red Shirts appears to be reverse proportional to the number of their posts and the time they have been members of TV.

I can't prove it, haven done the statistics, so just an impression that we have a lot of new members, who joined TV specifically to defend the Reds. Wonder how much one gets paid to invade the Internet in defense of Thaksin and the Red Shirts.

Someone else noticed the same?

[beechguy]

Funny, the degree of sympathy posters here have for the Red Shirts appears to be reverse proportional to the number of their posts and the time they have been members of TV.

I can't prove it, haven done the statistics, so just an impression that we have a lot of new members, who joined TV specifically to defend the Reds. Wonder how much one gets paid to invade the Internet in defense of Thaksin and the Red Shirts.

Someone else noticed the same?

Actually, it seemed just the opposite to me, most of the new comers I thought, were supportive of the PM and the yellow shirt group.

Edited May 23, 2010 by beechguy

[nikster]

The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Quote

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

...

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

...

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

...

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

....

This is the picture that has emerged. The only reason those communist leaders would team up with Thaksin is if they thought they could get rid of him at some point, I am sure he's well aware of that too and has some plans in place that would prevent that from happening.

Nothing to add, except that this is exactly what I thought was happening, in much fewer words... if the boot fits... the only thing missing is spinmeisters and lobbyists which are paid to form public opinion, and which do so in all media outlets, including public forums.

[rafish]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Quote

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Unquote

Quote

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

Unquote

This says it all really. Thaksin was basically financing a communist-led revolution. Now we know why the red shirts chose red as their colour.

I think the news coming out now provides overwhelming evidence of a very serious communist plot to overthrow the monarchy and the state as it is today and to turn Thailand into a communist state. Thaksin and his baggage would probably have been dumped.

Given the mounting evidence, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders should deserve the death sentence for their actions. The probable outcome is very likely to be life sentences, given the current government's ideas on capital punishment.

Let the flames from pro-red contributors begin!!! Your responses will be seen for what they are. Given all the evidence to the contrary, they will seem to be defending the indefensible.

All that, and your point is???

[intothefuture]

Funny, the degree of sympathy posters here have for the Red Shirts appears to be reverse proportional to the number of their posts and the time they have been members of TV.

I can't prove it, haven done the statistics, so just an impression that we have a lot of new members, who joined TV specifically to defend the Reds. Wonder how much one gets paid to invade the Internet in defense of Thaksin and the Red Shirts.

Someone else noticed the same?

I agree with you that there are a lot of Red Supporters now throwing out a lot of misinformation and "righteous indignation" on these forums right now. I do believe that these are not just citizens and interested parties sharing their views. Many are planted to "steer" the conversation.

Lets get a few facts straight:

1. The Reds were openly admitting they were armed, they were proud of it, and initially did not try to hide their weapons.

2. There are video clips showing reds and their black guards using assault weapons through out the past two months.

3. Caches of weapons have been found through out the past two months...including the motorcyclist carrying dozens of m79 grenades near Don Muang. (M79 grenades look like large bullets, but explode like a grenade when hits its target.)

4. The grenades launched on April 22 into the counter protester "all color shirts", residents of Silom, killing one and injuring dozens of others, came from the Reds camp, in response to the All color shirts telling them to leave.

5. The Red Leaders called on their followers to "Burn down all of Thailand" as can be seen in clips on internet. (see link below).

6. The late Seh Daeng was proud and openly proclaimed that he had an army with weapons and was using them. He often announced before grenade attacks that there would be an attack, then it would happen, then he would brag about it.

7. When the police and army tried to disperse the "non violent" Reds on April 10th...they were met with sniper fire and grenade attacks. One senior colonel was murdered and other police killed...as well as were protesters as the police and army responded to incoming live fire. After that...the government, nor anyone, needed proof that the Reds were armed and using live fire in response to any police/army effort to disperse.

8. There are video clips of black shirts amongst the red shirts firing those weapons.

9. The final toll is not yet certain but around 80 people died...11 were police or military. In most countries if even on gun is amongst the protesters...and absolutely if one police officer is shot....the police and military would respond with overwhelming power, regardless of loss of life on the protesters. Murder of a police officer is a capital crime (death penalty) is most countries. Abhisit used his intelligence and care in dealing with the Red Shirts....he waited them out...until only 2000 remained...then within a few hours they disbanded...but not before a vengeful rampage against all citizens and guests of Thailand...a preplaned attack with fire on the city. Please note that 10 bodies were found in the charred remains of Central World...this is arson and murder...punishable by death in most countries...and was ordered by the Red Shirt leaders (see clip reference below)

Conclusion: No one who is honest can say the Red Shirt movement was non violent, peaceful demonstration using democratic means. It was clearly an armed rebellion (acknowledging that they filled their ranks and files with large numbers of "followers" who were unarmed, because elections (they couldn't win more than 36% in last election) and non violent demonstrations did not work for them.

Information:

For those that care about the truth...and are not just on line here to try to spin their story... take a look at this professional letter to CNN International, that is filled with clips of Red's using weapons, links and references to full information on the armed rebellion of the Reds and showing how CNN, BBC and others fell for Thaksin's misinformation campaign: http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215387 (Thai and English language)

Then look at this clip of Red Shirt leaders telling their followers to burn all of Thailand:

The truth is available for those interested. Otherwise it is just misinformation campaigns going on in these forums. The famous line: "You are entitled to your own opinions...but not your own "facts"."

[KhaoNiaw]

This is the BBC report that had footage of an armed and firing Red:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8691486.stm

[way2muchcoffee]

Deny, deny, deny. This is all the redshirt supporters can do now. They are confronted with the following facts:

1) They held the central part of the city hostage for weeks

2) They attacked and killed several soldiers, police, and reporters while injuring hundreds of others

3) They burned down 38 buildings in Bangkok, plus various government buildings and schools upcountry

4) Their leaders called for these actions on stage and discussed them in interviews

And despite the clear case against them they have the temerity to deny, deny, deny. All evidence must have been planted they say. It wasn't us that burned, it was the government. Our leaders didn't really mean those things they said in full view of the public. Our protests were peaceful they say. I call BS. This is the most ridiculous case of doublespeak and denial of facts I have ever witnessed.

[Robby nz]

So let me get it straight.

A "huge cache" of weapons was found but the Reds were using firecrackers and home made petrol bombs??

So, many deadly weapons, thousands of trained, blood thirsty terrorists and in the final crack down one solder has been killed?

Wow, reminds me of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, remember? the once that were ready to be be deployed, as T.Blair assured the word, in only 45 minutes.

Speechless

Anyone who has been following the search for weapons will be able to tell you there was no "huge cache" of weapons.

That term implies there was a big pile in one place and this is clearly not the case. Just because they have now been put in one place dosnt mean they were found in one place.

In fact these weapons were retrieved from many diffrerent places including the car belonging to Kwanchai where amnuition and daimonds (loot) were found, the home of rambo where amnuition was found, the lake in front of the temple, behind the reds stage and many other places.

It is clear that these weapons were discarded by the reds as they ran, they would not want to be found with them on them.

There were reporters present when some of the weapons were found, saw on Thai tele a reporter following troops as they searched and saw finds in bushes of bombs and grenades. There is also footage of divers searching the lake.

As for casualtys it is reported that 411 soldiers and police were injured, have a little search of face book and you can find photos of soldiers with arms almost severed by grenades.

Peaceful unarmed reds? Yea right

[intothefuture]

I would like to add to my above comment......that if you go to the link: http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?p=215387 at the bottom, in the comment section, there is also a letter written by the world famous Thai musician, writer, opera composer, Somtow Sucharitkul (S.P. Somtow)... addressing in a non emotional, factual style...what is really going on here with the Red Shirt movement. It is very informative for Thais and Farangs.

[rogera]

Ass! Airport seizure didnt involve any M-79's or RPG's! Nobody got hurt. Is that an act of terroism?

Well, once you sobered up you might want to read the definition of a terrorist act. Like your tag line and location, revealing.

Terrorist: a person who uses or favours violent and intimidating methods of coercing a government or community.

Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th ed. 1990

Exactly! Merriam Webster: Violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terror>.

Seizing an airport falls under a very destructive act in my book. Just as violent acts in order to intimidate do.

I am certainly not a supporter of the PAD by any means, but I do like to give credit where it is due. The PAD did not seize the airport. Their original intention was to line the access roads to the airport, still allowing people to reach their flights. The Airports Authority of Thailand, fearing seizure, closed the airport themselves and when the PAD realised this, they moved into the terminal building where, presumably, it was more comfortable.

As someone else pointed out in an earlier post, before they left, the terminal had been swept clean and not one item had been taken from the display stands. Contrast that with the reds looting of Central World, many ATMs and 7-Eleven stores. The comparison between the two is startling.

[Deeral]

"You are entitled to your own opinions...but not your own "facts"

opinions are based on critical thought - inferences etc derived from logical deduction etc from the information available - why would one consider that anyone is entitled to what they consider and opinion if it is not based on these criteria?

[Deeral]

Use of a dictionarty and an underinformed discussion of semantics is hardly helpful in the current situation. It only underlines the paucity of the posters ability to assess the real situation and read the media/govt output.

For an idea on terrorism you might want to take a dispassionate historical look at who was branded a terrorist, by whom and by which govt. and when....then you will then find it hard not to revise your opinion on what is and isn't a terrorist.

[Ulysses G.]

So let me get it straight.

A "huge cache" of weapons was found but the Reds were using firecrackers and home made petrol bombs??

The blackshirts (military wing) were armed to the teeth with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers and they wandered freely among the protesters who took little notice of them.

It certainly looks like the common folk were meant to be "peaceful protesters" (cannon fodder) to sway public opinion.

[NanaFoods]

"You are entitled to your own opinions...but not your own "facts"

opinions are based on critical thought - inferences etc derived from logical deduction etc from the information available - why would one consider that anyone is entitled to what they consider and opinion if it is not based on these criteria?

Wrong.

An opinion is NOT necessarily derived from logical deduction or critical thought - as we have seen countless times on this forum.

That is why they are called "opinions", and not "proofs" or "logical conclusions".

Correct Definition...

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

[Thai at Heart]

A Thai soldier arranges war weapons that authorities discovered and seized from an area where anti-government protesters had occupied during a more than two months rally at a shopping center in Bangkok, Thailand, Saturday, May 22, 2010.

Washington Post

Thank you for the pictures

[way2muchcoffee]

You did not watch my link in a earlyer Reply here. Or should I say you did not want to watch it? Enough weapons in the hand of the Reds to see there.

Please feel free to repost it.

I am not averse to looking at anything.

Its the understanding that's the problem.

Hey, I only ask politely.

Bearing in mind I come from a part of the world where a government invented weapons of Mass destruction as a reason for sending young men half way around the world to die.

I don't see anything wrong with holding a statement such as "Massive Weapons Cache" to some hard proof. It either existed or it didn't. I am no weapons expert, but I think I can imagine what a massive arms cache would look like, and as yet, other than public spoken pronouncements from the government and army, there is no official picture, or catalogue. Statements like this need more than verbal proof, and all governments need to be held accountable for their statements and actions.

I have never said the reds were peaceful or unarmed. I have never said that the army was unjustified in their actions. There were a portion of the protesters armed with lethal weapons. However, a statement such as "Massive Arms Cache" is being used to justify the actions of the army and colours a lot of perception about what the reds were potentially planning. I don't trust the words that come out of most politicians mouths of any political persuasion unless they have no political gain for making the statement.

I am neither red, nor yellow, just trying to work out what, where, why and how this country runs.

Does it hinge on the word 'massive'? What would be 'massive' to you? 10 rifles and 100 grenades? 100 rifles and 1000 grenades? Let us remember that whatever was left behind would only be a fraction of what was taken out of there.

Edited May 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[hanajake]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

On the stupid scale, this quote is a max 10!!!!!

[Thai at Heart]

Does it hing on the word 'massive'? What would be 'massive' to you? 10 rifles and 100 grenades? 100 rifles and 1000 grenades? Let us remember that whatever was left behind would only be a fraction of what was taken out of there.

The word "massive" is extremely important. I remember the British showing arms caches found in Northern Ireland and it would rank in the 500+ amount of guns, RPGs etc. It was obvious that the situation was the army fighting an extremely well armed almost professional army.

Having enough guns to arm 100 people, when faced with an inevitable force from the army that represents thousands is extremely different from having enough guns and weapons to arm 1000.

It shows what the plans of the reds may have been. It isn't as though the reds would lack the finance to obtain enough guns to put one in the hands of 5000 men. Did they have anti-tank weapons? RPG's are apparently not that difficult to get hold of. If you are facing an army, you have to assume that they are going to use heavy armour to get it to protect life. Could you imagine the carnage if the reds had managed to stop the armoured vehicles during the push into Rajaprasong?

The reds had a sniper team, of how many we don't know, and there were videos of people in black caught firing at the army as the stand off around Rachprasong continued. I am trying to work out if the reds intended or have an intention to start a "war" with the army. To do that they could have had enough arms to arm a couple of thousand. That is a very different thing from having an relatively small group with weapons. It would be interesting to work out how many armed personnel the reds actually had.

It makes a huge difference to how I view the future of what the reds might get up to. So looking at what was found, they either left so quickly that the couldn't pick it up, or access to this type of stuff is so easy, they couldn't be bothered. If that is the totality of what they had, it would be very logical to assume that they have plenty more somewhere else.

Taken out of there? By whom?

[Crushdepth]

Anyone who thinks the protesters were unarmed can easily test their conspiracy theory - go down to Rama IV and ask some of the residents if they were unarmed.

@Deeral: Allow me to propose a definition of 'terrorist' for you to ponder: Anyone who launches grenades, shoots at the residents and burns down the buildings in our neighbourhood is a terrorist. We couldn't give a rats arse about their political views.

Honestly there are some boneheads around here.

[asiawatcher]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

Fortunately video evidence proves otherwise or are you another Thai with your head up your ass? Thais burning cities gee - and the reds are passive supporters of democracy? Very civilised and then you make comparisons between Suthep and George W the worlds greatest example of a puppet in power. Well the red demonstrators were and still are puppets in a chess game - expendable pawns. You and old square face deserve the next stage in your demise.

[Vindie]

Anyone who thinks the protesters were unarmed can easily test their conspiracy theory - go down to Rama IV and ask some of the residents if they were unarmed.

@Deeral: Allow me to propose a definition of 'terrorist' for you to ponder: Anyone who launches grenades, shoots at the residents and burns down the buildings in our neighbourhood is a terrorist. We couldn't give a rats arse about their political views.

Honestly there are some boneheads around here.

Sure, some of the red shirts were armed, but it was not an armed movement. The majority of the people there did NOT have weapons of war. However, seeing as how the government and the army spokespeople are now dictating the news (and presenting evidence after they deem areas 'safe' and let journalists in), I'm sure we can all rest assured that they are using only the truth to legitimize their own deadly use of force. The Thaivisa children know that authority figures, especially in SE Asia MUST be believed, because to do otherwise is to risk deportation or worse.

Where do you people come from that believe the likes of the government and the military? Do you hold the same esteem for these institutions back home? Even the red apologists here don't defend Thaksin as an honest source of information. You can hate the reds all you want... that's a matter of opinion, but to believe all that the establishment has to say is irresponsible and foolish. Support the government if you wish, but accept statements from the army as gospel? Shame on you!

[Secularist]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

[whybother]

Anyone who thinks the protesters were unarmed can easily test their conspiracy theory - go down to Rama IV and ask some of the residents if they were unarmed.

@Deeral: Allow me to propose a definition of 'terrorist' for you to ponder: Anyone who launches grenades, shoots at the residents and burns down the buildings in our neighbourhood is a terrorist. We couldn't give a rats arse about their political views.

Honestly there are some boneheads around here.

Sure, some of the red shirts were armed, but it was not an armed movement. The majority of the people there did NOT have weapons of war. However, seeing as how the government and the army spokespeople are now dictating the news (and presenting evidence after they deem areas 'safe' and let journalists in), I'm sure we can all rest assured that they are using only the truth to legitimize their own deadly use of force. The Thaivisa children know that authority figures, especially in SE Asia MUST be believed, because to do otherwise is to risk deportation or worse.

Where do you people come from that believe the likes of the government and the military? Do you hold the same esteem for these institutions back home? Even the red apologists here don't defend Thaksin as an honest source of information. You can hate the reds all you want... that's a matter of opinion, but to believe all that the establishment has to say is irresponsible and foolish. Support the government if you wish, but accept statements from the army as gospel? Shame on you!

How would you have suggested the army deal with protestors that included heavily armed people? When they started clearing the protestors with riot police on April 10, they were attacked with guns and grenades, so riot police wouldn't have been the answer would it?

Edited May 23, 2010 by whybother