Why Doesn't My Weight Go Down ?

[chiang mai]

I'm a real novice at all of this so bear with me if I make some bloopers!

I'm trying to figure out what my diet and exersise routine should look like, I've read all the material in this forum plus a bunch of articles on the web and a picture is slowly starting to take shape, let me test my understanding and please feel free to tell me what's wrong since I want to understand the details:

I'm 6 foot 1 and currently 85 kilo's and aged 62, I recently gained weight that took me to 90 kilo's and I became unwell as a result. To offset the symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome I need to loose around 10% of my body weight and the past two weeks has been very sucessful in that I've lost 5 kilo's, half way there! I also have an objective to lower my blood sugar and normalise my lipids.

The trouble is that I really don't know what I'm doing, I'm basically eating less, eating things I think ae healthy and I'm going to the gym to exersise, I eat fresh fruit (apples/bannanas/papaya), celery, carrots, fish, krispbread, low fat cottage and small amounts of low fat goats cheese, grilled chicken, peanut butter, brown rice, gatorade and home made ice tea (no sugar) - no meat, no shakes, no fast food, no alcohol, no snacks and I've started reading the labels!! - I'm slowly getting a handle on the what/why/how.

I exersise three/four times a week, treadmill for 20/30 mins (alternating fast and slow) and resistance training/weights for 30 minutes.

My objectives are to get to 80/82 kilo's (I've always been tall and lean) and to stay there whilst not loosing muscle.

As far as I can tell I should need about 2,300 calories a day, my target currently is less than 2,000 and this should comprise 50% carbo's, 30% protein and 20% fat.

Based on the above, can anyone see any issues and or add any detail that might help? What I would find really really useful, and I can't seem to find this anywhere, is a sample of what a diet for one day might look like, given the above objectives. I would also like to better understand the timing of that sample diet as it relates to my exersise routine, ie, where does in exersise fit in relative to food intake.

Many thanks in advance for any inputs. BTW have to say I'm feeling loads better after my regime change and I'm only two weeks into it.

[robblok]

so far your weight is going down, a bit might be water weight other part might be real fat you lost. So you are now already eating less then what you need to keep on weight.

You have to remember those calculations are general rules. You have to find for yourself if they apply to you. Seems like your doing already well. Do you have an iphone or ipad ? There are some applications that can help you log your food. But if you dont make it yourself and are not able to weigh it it wont help.

[chiang mai]

so far your weight is going down, a bit might be water weight other part might be real fat you lost. So you are now already eating less then what you need to keep on weight.

You have to remember those calculations are general rules. You have to find for yourself if they apply to you. Seems like your doing already well. Do you have an iphone or ipad ? There are some applications that can help you log your food. But if you dont make it yourself and are not able to weigh it it wont help.

I nearly always exersise on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning. I may have a cup of tea and an apple or bannana and then I try to eat within two hours of finishing exersise. Is that the correct way round, I've read elsewhere that some people eat breakfast/meal and then exersise an hour later, how anyone can do that amazes me but am curious about the effects on muscle growth either way.

[robblok]

I would never go for exercise before breakfast. But everyone is different. People think and i agree with them that you have no stored energy (glycogen) after your sleep. So you will start burning fat right away. That is a good thing, however you can never exercise as hard as you could have if you had breakfast. But its not always about what is the best way. What is more important is what is sustainable for you. Because this will be a long term thing, even if you have lost the weight you should keep exercising.

[tropo]

I nearly always exersise on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning. I may have a cup of tea and an apple or bannana and then I try to eat within two hours of finishing exersise. Is that the correct way round, I've read elsewhere that some people eat breakfast/meal and then exersise an hour later, how anyone can do that amazes me but am curious about the effects on muscle growth either way.

Exercising on an empty stomach may be appropriate to maximize fat loss, but there's too much risk of going catabolic and burning muscle.

In my particular case, a workout lasts around 2 hours when I'm doing cardio and weights together. Let's assume I slept for 8 hours (sometimes only 5 or 6 if I don't sleep well). The last meal was 2 hours before I slept. Another hour waking up, preparing for and travelling to the gym to start my workout. That would mean I'd be hitting the gym 11 hours after my last meal. At the end of my workout that's 13 hours - then cooling down, travelling home - 14 hours without food! That's madness if you want to keep your muscle.

You need to compromise. Perhaps on an empty stomach you'll burn more fat calories as a percentage of total calories burned but it's unlikely you'll burn as many calories being in a semi-starved condition.

Here's something I'm currently experimenting with on my cardio-only days. I blend1/2 banana with 60 grams of WPI (no flavour or sweetener) in water then have a coffee and high tail it down to the gym. It has been working well.

I won't go to the gym without breakfast when I'm pushing weights. I'll get to the gym 1 1/2 hours after eating. The meal is normally 1/2 cup wholegrain oats, 60 grams WPI (cooked in), 2 tablespoon ground flaxseed, a handful of raisins and 2 tablespoons of apple sauce topped of with some skim milk. I'll also have a coffee and a piece of fruit just before leaving to go to the gym.

[chiang mai]

Thanks Tropo, much appreciated. I've just done my first calorie count ever and the individual numbers look very good, except I'm only absorbing an average of 1,600 calories a day, so I need to start planning and perhaps building in some extra intake in order to halt my current program of loss otherwise I will overshoot my targets.

As far as the exersise before or after food intake is concerned: it's logical and makes a lot of sense thus I'll work on changing my routine.

Thanks to all once again.

[glbv]

On the note of meal timing that many people kill themselves over and are constantly eating little meals. Look into intermittent fasting, popularized by www.leangains.com ive been following it for about a year now with great results.

The basics are you are on a 16/8 or 20/4 feeding period, 16/20 hours fasting 8/4 eating. I currently wake up about 11am eat at 8pm and finish at around midnight. In that time period i consume 2750 calories. This is currently a cut. This has been by far the #1 most helpful thing for me to lose weight while preserving lean mass. If you like eating lots of small child size meals and that keeps you happy, no problem. But i like to feel stuffed full of big meals.

edit: more info can be found http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3587831 as well as here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131542323.

Bodybuilders are often extremely apprehensive to try this if they are set on a "traditional" body building diet, but ive never had a body builder actually back up any of their reasoning with science. Everything listed on his website and the forums is backed up with scientific studys, as well as results from the 10000s of people on the forums using this outline. These are people in contest prep and weekend warriors alike.

Edited April 14, 2012 by glbv

[tropo]

*deleted* (more research required)

Edited April 14, 2012 by tropo

[Markland]

I make sure my sessions never last longer then 70-80 minds.I train hard and do high intensity.I have good muscle mass and my cardio is spot on

each one i different

[tropo]

On the note of meal timing that many people kill themselves over and are constantly eating little meals. Look into intermittent fasting, popularized by www.leangains.com ive been following it for about a year now with great results.

The basics are you are on a 16/8 or 20/4 feeding period, 16/20 hours fasting 8/4 eating. I currently wake up about 11am eat at 8pm and finish at around midnight. In that time period i consume 2750 calories. This is currently a cut. This has been by far the #1 most helpful thing for me to lose weight while preserving lean mass. If you like eating lots of small child size meals and that keeps you happy, no problem. But i like to feel stuffed full of big meals.

edit: more info can be found http://forum.bodybui...d.php?t=3587831 as well as here http://forum.bodybui...hp?t=131542323.

Bodybuilders are often extremely apprehensive to try this if they are set on a "traditional" body building diet, but ive never had a body builder actually back up any of their reasoning with science. Everything listed on his website and the forums is backed up with scientific studys, as well as results from the 10000s of people on the forums using this outline. These are people in contest prep and weekend warriors alike.

Just having a quick look at the forum - do you think Mark Berkhan (the OP) gained 22 - 24 lbs of muscle in a year without using drugs (AAS, Growth hormone etc)? Impossible.

[robblok]

On the note of meal timing that many people kill themselves over and are constantly eating little meals. Look into intermittent fasting, popularized by www.leangains.com ive been following it for about a year now with great results.

The basics are you are on a 16/8 or 20/4 feeding period, 16/20 hours fasting 8/4 eating. I currently wake up about 11am eat at 8pm and finish at around midnight. In that time period i consume 2750 calories. This is currently a cut. This has been by far the #1 most helpful thing for me to lose weight while preserving lean mass. If you like eating lots of small child size meals and that keeps you happy, no problem. But i like to feel stuffed full of big meals.

edit: more info can be found http://forum.bodybui...d.php?t=3587831 as well as here http://forum.bodybui...hp?t=131542323.

Bodybuilders are often extremely apprehensive to try this if they are set on a "traditional" body building diet, but ive never had a body builder actually back up any of their reasoning with science. Everything listed on his website and the forums is backed up with scientific studys, as well as results from the 10000s of people on the forums using this outline. These are people in contest prep and weekend warriors alike.

Just having a quick look at the forum - do you think Mark Berkhan (the OP) gained 22 - 24 lbs of muscle in a year without using drugs (AAS, Growth hormone etc)? Impossible.

It depends how close he was to his genetic potential. But if he was lifting for a long time already then its highly unlikely. But if he wants to use its his choice unless he says he did it all natural.

I looked at the guys pictures.. i would say its pretty hard to do that natural.

Edited April 14, 2012 by robblok

[Markland]

i tried steroids before.Great gains but not worth it

[KeyserSoze01]

There are more factors at play in one's weight than just diet and exercise. Those that have difficulty dropping weight even with regular exercise and a balanced diet may have issues with their endocrine system. Low thyroid (hypothyroidism), low Testosterone (for men) or Estrogen (for women), stress, onset of diabetes, depression, etc are all contributing factors to weight gain and resistance to weight loss.

Those that advocate diet only as being sufficient to lose weight, you may be correct, as long as you are burning more calories than you are consuming. If you lead a sedentary lifestyle, then you must consume very few calories to lose weight. This is a double-edged sword as the fewer calories you take in, the more your body will store whatever calories it gets in the form of fat. Regular (daily) physical activity is the only way for the body burn these calories.

As with most things in life, there is a balance. A person should watch their calorie intake and what type of calories you are consuming, coupled with regular aerobic and strength training. There is no magic in the equation. Eat right, exercise, remove stress from your life, make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly.

[Orac]

There are more factors at play in one's weight than just diet and exercise. Those that have difficulty dropping weight even with regular exercise and a balanced diet may have issues with their endocrine system. Low thyroid (hypothyroidism), low Testosterone (for men) or Estrogen (for women), stress, onset of diabetes, depression, etc are all contributing factors to weight gain and resistance to weight loss.

Those that advocate diet only as being sufficient to lose weight, you may be correct, as long as you are burning more calories than you are consuming. If you lead a sedentary lifestyle, then you must consume very few calories to lose weight. This is a double-edged sword as the fewer calories you take in, the more your body will store whatever calories it gets in the form of fat. Regular (daily) physical activity is the only way for the body burn these calories.

As with most things in life, there is a balance. A person should watch their calorie intake and what type of calories you are consuming, coupled with regular aerobic and strength training. There is no magic in the equation. Eat right, exercise, remove stress from your life, make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly.

Could you expand on the "make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly" bit there as a quick glance at Wikipedia tells me it is rather complex. I have got to grips with the other things you mention - exercise, diet and stress reduction - but the endocrine bit is a new one on me.

[chiang mai]

The endocrine system, the thyroid in particular, is responsible for managing metabolism, large numbers of people are known to suffer from hyperthyroidism which results in an overactive metabolism and many suffer from the opposite, hyporthyroidism which does the obverse. Perhaps google those two words for a fuller explanation. Regardless, simple blood tests can establish whether either condition exists, monitoring T3, T4 and free T3/4 tells the entire story.

[Crushdepth]

Deleted.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Crushdepth

[tropo]

Just having a quick look at the forum - do you think Mark Berkhan (the OP) gained 22 - 24 lbs of muscle in a year without using drugs (AAS, Growth hormone etc)? Impossible.

It depends how close he was to his genetic potential. But if he was lifting for a long time already then its highly unlikely. But if he wants to use its his choice unless he says he did it all natural.

I looked at the guys pictures.. i would say its pretty hard to do that natural.

Well, he was talking about deadlifting 590 lbs. You don't do that as a novice.

There is no way he'll put on 22 - 24 lbs naturally in a year, especially in an ultra lean state - no one does that, even the guys on steroids. The thick snake like veins running down his biceps are a dead give away.

The fact that he's selling a program which makes him even harder to believe. I started to read through the thread and then realised it's 10,100 post long. I don't have the time to go through all of them. It's interesting that all of a sudden, over a year ago no one posted on it despite it going for almost 4 years prior.

Edited April 14, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

Could you expand on the "make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly" bit there as a quick glance at Wikipedia tells me it is rather complex. I have got to grips with the other things you mention - exercise, diet and stress reduction - but the endocrine bit is a new one on me.

I believe he has it the wrong way around. Good diet with exercise and stress reduction will help the endocrine system to function optimally... especially in the case of diabetes or insulin resistance. Most endocrine problems are self induced by a life time of bad habits, which if corrected can get it working better again.

Of course, no matter what one does, certain hormones (testosterone, HGH etc) will decline with age. No one has managed to prevent aging and eventual death so we also have to be reasonable in our expectations.

[chiang mai]

Could you expand on the "make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly" bit there as a quick glance at Wikipedia tells me it is rather complex. I have got to grips with the other things you mention - exercise, diet and stress reduction - but the endocrine bit is a new one on me.

I believe he has it the wrong way around. Good diet with exercise and stress reduction will help the endocrine system to function optimally... especially in the case of diabetes or insulin resistance. Most endocrine problems are self induced by a life time of bad habits, which if corrected can get it working better again.

Of course, no matter what one does, certain hormones (testosterone, HGH etc) will decline with age. No one has managed to prevent aging and eventual death so we also have to be reasonable in our expectations.

Now that I've read again what I wrote earlier, indeed I do, apologies that I got my "er" and "or " the wrong way round.

[KeyserSoze01]

Could you expand on the "make sure your endocrine system is functioning properly" bit there as a quick glance at Wikipedia tells me it is rather complex. I have got to grips with the other things you mention - exercise, diet and stress reduction - but the endocrine bit is a new one on me.

I believe he has it the wrong way around. Good diet with exercise and stress reduction will help the endocrine system to function optimally... especially in the case of diabetes or insulin resistance. Most endocrine problems are self induced by a life time of bad habits, which if corrected can get it working better again.

Of course, no matter what one does, certain hormones (testosterone, HGH etc) will decline with age. No one has managed to prevent aging and eventual death so we also have to be reasonable in our expectations.

Genetics has a lot to play with your endocrine system. If your ancestors suffer from any endocrinological issues, you stand a good chance of having them too. You are correct in that most people damage their systems with diet, then develop diabetes. Exercise and diet can reverse lesser cases of diabetes, but if you are full blown type 2, you must maintain diet in order to survive. The causes of other hormonal maladies are generally unknown and are usually attributed to your genetic background.

There are things we take for granted that have a lasting impact on our health and physical well being. Something as simple as the fillings in your teeth. Amalgam has been used for decades for this purpose. Studies have shown that amalgam produces mercury as it degrades. So several generations have had their teeth filled with a material that generates low doses for mercury for decades, thus providing a constant low dosage of poison into your system. Yes, there is a debate over the topic, but after learning of this I have scheduled a dental appt to have all the amalgam removed from my teeth and replaced.

[glbv]

Sorry tropo didnt mention that the 2 threads i posted, the first one started by Martin the reason it ends abruptly is when a thread hits 10,000 posts on that forum they lock it as to not crash it, it is continued in that 2nd thread. IF (intermittent fasting) is still discussed and recommended daily if not on a post by post basis on the forum. The nutritional section of that website is probably my most visited site/forum by a huge margin as it has a solid mix of beginners, veterans, pre contest folks, and of course with any bodybuilding forums your occasional anabolic user.

Im not sure what Martin said as for as weight gain as far as the 22-24lbs, if he says that is all muscle then no hes full of it and/or on anabolics. But 22-24lbs (weight not muscle) is fairly common in a solid year of bulking. .5lb is generally the weekly target weight gain, with some of that being fat. No matter what you do, i dont care what your cycle is you will gain fat when bulking.

But as i said this is by far the MOST helpful modification I have made to assist with cutting, i went from 18% bf im bordering on about 12% atm (generally a range of 9-13% is when people will begin and to define their abdominal. My girlfriend has also switched to IF recently as she sees my progress over the past year or so that weve been together, in 2 months she dropped from 50kg to 46kg on a 1600cal diet with a 5 day a week training regiment.

Its not for everyone and the first 3-7days take your body getting used to it, but after that i was never hungry.

[Markland]

wha cutting aid are you using glbv ?

[glbv]

I dont use any supplements geared towards cutting. I use a preworkout and intra workout and i only use the intra because it promotes drinking the large amount of water I drink throught the day (7.5l).

I have tried clen in the past as well as cytomel. Cytomel didnt effect me in any way even at higher doses. Clen did effect me but its not enough of a benefit for the negative of a increase in body temp. I wouldn't mind the increase in body temp if it wasn't so dam_n hot here already. Unless you are in the sub 10% body fat range clen as well as any other fat burning supplement is going to make no notable difference and even if you are in that range the difference is going to be so marginal that it would be as if you didnt eat that extra egg.

[robblok]

You are right i hear clen will help you burn an extra 5% that is not much at all. I never really liked it as i got really bad cramps. Even when i supplemented with taurine it was not really nice to use.

[Markland]

clen is a killer.Doing cardio while using it in this heat is to much.

I dont worry now to much about cutting just try to stay lean as best as i can with keeping muscle

sometimes having a little bit of fat is not the end of the world especially if you have a healthy strong looking shape i think

the skinny guys with the fat looks allot more weird imo then say a muscular guy with some fat

[robblok]

clen is a killer.Doing cardio while using it in this heat is to much.

I dont worry now to much about cutting just try to stay lean as best as i can with keeping muscle

sometimes having a little bit of fat is not the end of the world especially if you have a healthy strong looking shape i think

the skinny guys with the fat looks allot more weird imo then say a muscular guy with some fat

I agree, but still i want to look lean. And yes clen is a killer in this heat but for me the cramps were the deal breaker. Waking up yawning stretching myself in bed then crying like a little girl because of a cramp in my calf muscle is not fun. I did loose weight on it but it was not worth it.

[Markland]

I would get cramps in my toes from it.Also it made me agitated and irritable.

On another note i must improve my didet again because in the last month or so it has been not good

i can be a comfort eater at times.Funny thing is my diet has been bad this month but my waist has gotten smaller

i like doing hiil training and full body workouts

Today was a hard one normally fully body workout followed by hit but i hit the weights so hard that combined with the heat around midday made me feel a bit sick .The gym only has fans

i went to one of the toilets locked myself inside and hat to sit down and use the spray hose to cool me down then felt better

no showers in the gym

[poanoi]

How many Clenbuterol / day does it take to get rid of fat ?

i've been eating 1-2 per day and, 2 / day seemed to make a slight difference, but now with 1 per day it looks like my gut grow

[tropo]

You are right i hear clen will help you burn an extra 5% that is not much at all. I never really liked it as i got really bad cramps. Even when i supplemented with taurine it was not really nice to use.

That's debatable too. If you're eating too much, all the supplementary aids in the world won't do any good.

Supplementary aids for stripping bodyfat should only be used by competition bodybuilders who are already down to low single digit fat percentages. Competition bodybuilding is a very unhealthy sport. There's no reason (other than laziness) for anyone else to ever try them.

[tropo]

I dont use any supplements geared towards cutting. I use a preworkout and intra workout and i only use the intra because it promotes drinking the large amount of water I drink throught the day (7.5l).

I have tried clen in the past as well as cytomel. Cytomel didnt effect me in any way even at higher doses. Clen did effect me but its not enough of a benefit for the negative of a increase in body temp. I wouldn't mind the increase in body temp if it wasn't so dam_n hot here already. Unless you are in the sub 10% body fat range clen as well as any other fat burning supplement is going to make no notable difference and even if you are in that range the difference is going to be so marginal that it would be as if you didnt eat that extra egg.

You talk a lot about bodyfat percentages. How do you determine them? If you're using pinch callipers, you have to adjust for age. If I use the standard tables I'm 6% lower than my real fat percentage at age 52.