Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[personchester]

Easy answer

Return to the UK, declare yourself homeless, claim housing benefits, etc., after 6 months move abroad again with your new uprated pension.

While there get new glasses, have your teeth sorted, new hip maybe all on the government.

How easy was that?

No, pension wise that is not correct, when one is back in the Uk the pension will be inceased in line with the normal (basic) UK pension for as long as one remains there, when one departs again and goes back to expat status, the pension will be reduced back to the same sum it was before, no increase at all

[rubik101]

As many of you retired ex-pat residents of Thailand are probably aware, your pension is fixed at the amount you recieve on the day you retire, never to be increased again until you stop drawing the pension, i.e. you drop dead. Assuming this could be anything up to thirty years or even more, if you are lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you view old age!) the shrinking pension will be almost worthless by the time you reach a ripe old age. Pensioners resident within the EU and some other countries get the annual increase as if they were resident in the UK, so why are we different? There are many people who are involved in trying to rectify this situation around the world but it has been proposed that a group be set up to argue the case for the residents of Thailand.

So, a few of us have got together and have organised a meeting, to be held on either Thursday 19th or Sun 22nd August at 12.30 in Pattaya. A venue has not yet been decided as we have no idea how many of you might turn up.

Could you please indicate whether you will be able to attend either date by adding a reply here or send me a Private Message.

In the mean-time, you might like to look at these sites:

http://www.pension-parity-uk.com/

http://www.pensionpa....com/about.html

Regards, Rubik

Edited June 28, 2010 by rubik101

[Penkoprod]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

[twofortheroad]

A complete waste of time, particulary during an era of austerity budgets. The government's priority at the moment is to delay pension payments by extending the age at which you become eligible. What does that suggest? Forming a bowls club, arranging a bingo night or charra bang trips would be more productive.

[TropicalBerts]

Well done Rubik,

There are a number of groups both in and out of the UK who are trying to right this wrong, including the Royal British Legion. Going for a game of Bowls or Bingo would be nice if you have the money to pay for it!!.

Let me know details of your meeting when you have them and I will inform our members. I will also put details on the Pattaya forum.

Bert

[Nignoy]

:rolleyes:I thought over the last 10 years we had flogged this horse to death,it is hard enuf getting your uk pension paid outside the eu as it is,and then expect to get pension rises too I dont think so :jap:

[Penkoprod]

Well done Rubik,

There are a number of groups both in and out of the UK who are trying to right this wrong, including the Royal British Legion. Going for a game of Bowls or Bingo would be nice if you have the money to pay for it!!. Let me know details of your meeting when you have them and I will inform our members. I will also put details on the Pattaya forum. Bert

Its all well and good, talking about "righting wrongs", but, in order to put up a good showing in the game, firstly you have to know the RULES of the game (both the written ones AND the unwritten ones too btw !!!!).

You obviously dont.

For instance, it could be said that people were quite happy to not have to pay any extra taxes, when they were working, that would have go towards expat pensioners yearly increments. Now that they ARE expat pensioners they scream "foul!!!!" and want the rules changed, and that they want those working now to provide for their increases. Again, i'm not taking sides here, but people need to change the record now and again....because it gets both boring and a waste of time playing them over and over............no?

Might i suggest you DO learn said rules (and history of) the UK Stale pension, before rattling your sabre? You might find the process enlightening.

Google is your friend, in this .

Penkoprod

[astral]

It is an iniquity, but I doubt it is going to change.

By living overseas we save the government money on the NHS.

However if this rule has to stand, it should be applied to ALL pensioners,

including teachers and civil servants, who live overseas.......

[moe666]

Good luck on that one, lucky if they don't reduce your pension.

[rgs2001uk]

It is an iniquity, but I doubt it is going to change.

By living overseas we save the government money on the NHS.

However if this rule has to stand, it should be applied to ALL pensioners,

including teachers and civil servants, who live overseas.......

As far as I am aware this rule does apply to all pensioners in Thailand, but not to all pensions.

I know of people living here in Thailand who are in receipt of three pensions, a gov't pension and company pension where the rules dont apply,

the state OAP is the only pension affected.

As the Op states in his opening, the OAP is fixed, just one more thing to take into consideration before coming here.

Another problem many face but choose to ignore is health care costs, if you can get any cover over age of 70 it may cost more than your pension provides.

Knew an old guy in BKK a few years ago, he was getting by on 15,000 baht per month.

I have no idea what the pension for a married man is, but suspect in todays climate it doesnt even pay enough to allow you to get a married mans extension

based on 40,000 baht per month income.

Not just Thailand, but anyone who is relying on only the govt pension is in for a rough ride no matter where they live, in fact for many the UK would be their best bet,

at least health care is free.

[The Philosopher]

It is an iniquity, but I doubt it is going to change.

By living overseas we save the government money on the NHS.

However if this rule has to stand, it should be applied to ALL pensioners,

including teachers and civil servants, who live overseas.......

As far as I am aware this rule does apply to all pensioners in Thailand, but not to all pensions.

I know of people living here in Thailand who are in receipt of three pensions, a gov't pension and company pension where the rules dont apply,

the state OAP is the only pension affected.

As the Op states in his opening, the OAP is fixed, just one more thing to take into consideration before coming here.

Another problem many face but choose to ignore is health care costs, if you can get any cover over age of 70 it may cost more than your pension provides.

Knew an old guy in BKK a few years ago, he was getting by on 15,000 baht per month.

I have no idea what the pension for a married man is, but suspect in todays climate it doesnt even pay enough to allow you to get a married mans extension

based on 40,000 baht per month income.

Not just Thailand, but anyone who is relying on only the govt pension is in for a rough ride no matter where they live, in fact for many the UK would be their best bet,

at least health care is free.

Correct the pensions paid to govermnet workers are in effcet occupational pensions and not the state old age pension different rules

[Penkoprod]

For sure by your comments your an arsehole_e. Take this in. Fact

My English aunt is married to a yank, he was posted to UK with his job for a number of years. Paid UK tax and was given a NI number.

Went back to US to work. Retired, The UK pay him a pension for the years he paid NI, AND GIVE THE YANK INCREASES WHEN THEY OCCUR, why, because he's in a country on the government list. He's not even ENGLISH. He was gob smacked and laughed all the way to the bank. Do you think that is right ???????

Aw, whats up with you, sweetheart????

Has the big bad man pointed out some truths that you dont like, huh? If you dont like 'em, just move along, but just dont let this thread degenerate into a name calling and pissing match one, please.

The reason behind that scenario is because of a reciprocal agreement between the governments of the USA and the UK.

Had he retired over here having just visited from time to time, and NEVER paid what he paid, then he would have been in the same position as he is now.

Thailand never has reciprocal agreement with UK and never will have (as it takes 2 to tango and the UK said at the last court case...which they won... they had no plans to make any further ones "for the foreseeable future")

Like i said earlier.......if you want to make a good showing in the game, then, know the rules.

Penkoprod

[Mosha]

How do you think they give pensions to those who have replaced us?

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>The reason behind that scenario is because of a reciprocal agreement between the governments of the USA and the UK.

Had he retired over here having just visited from time to time, and NEVER paid what he paid, then he would have been in the same position as he is now.

Thailand never has reciprocal agreement with UK and never will have (as it takes 2 to tango and the UK said at the last court case...which they won... they had no plans to make any further ones "for the foreseeable future")

Like i said earlier.......if you want to make a good showing in the game, then, know the rules.

Penkoprod

It's nothing to do with reciprocal agreements - that's just an excuse peddled by the government that you appear to have swallowed hook, line and sinker:

http://www.britishpe...nsion_myths.htm

[chiang mai]

My English aunt is married to a yank, he was posted to UK with his job for a number of years. Paid UK tax and was given a NI number.

Went back to US to work. Retired, The UK pay him a pension for the years he paid NI, AND GIVE THE YANK INCREASES WHEN THEY OCCUR, why, because he's in a country on the government list. He's not even ENGLISH. He was gob smacked and laughed all the way to the bank. Do you think that is right ???????

That's fair, if he paid NI contributions he's earned the pension. I'm a Brit who lived in the US for thirteen years and paid into their Social Security system and in another two years time I'll begin to receive the US SSI Pension, it works both ways.

[cardholder]

[quote name='chiang mai' date='2010-06-28 21:46'My English aunt is married to a yank, he was posted to UK with his job for a number of years. Paid UK tax and was given a NI number.

Went back to US to work. Retired, The UK pay him a pension for the years he paid NI, AND GIVE THE YANK INCREASES WHEN THEY OCCUR, why, because he's in a country on the government list. He's not even ENGLISH. He was gob smacked and laughed all the way to the bank. Do you think that is right ???????

That's fair, if he paid NI contributions he's earned the pension. I'm a Brit who lived in the US for thirteen years and paid into their Social Security system and in another two years time I'll begin to receive the US SSI Pension, it works both ways.

I fear that the point that a UK citizen living in Thailand NOT getting an annual increase, versus an American citizen living in USA who DOES, is completely lost on you.

FAIR ?

I don't think so.

Absolutely NOTHING to do with reciprocal arrangements - just intransigence (and indifference) on the part of the UK government.

[Penkoprod]

If l'm your sweetheart, end of conversation.

For the rest, l cannot understand why some cannot see the grievance, that it's OK if you put your feet up here but you cannot there when you stop work.. Nothing to do with rules, steal something in Saudi, get your hands chopped off, that OK, yes, no, it's the rules.

Of course i can see the grievance !!!!!!!

But i can also see the futility in fighting for any change. Especially when people sound off without knowing either the history of, or rules of what they are objecting to.

Remember this hasnt just cropped up in the past few years, but morelike the past 20. And the case for Expat pensioners hasnt progressed in that time, either. In fact, its gone backwards, if anything

How long now, have "the powers that be" been saying pension reforms have been called for?

And now they have announced that people will (most likely) not be entitled to a State Pension until they reach 66....that means those aged around the 58 mark now will be caught in the web of having to work longer.

Those younger than that will have to work til they are seventy. (This will depend on their age now, of course...on a sliding scale)

These are the same people who some on here think should pay their increases in pension, when the same people have taken their money, and spent it elsewhere in the world.

BTW, just for the record, the above is NOT what i think, or agree with, but posted to show the futility of the siuation. You only have to read the comments in the press when this case is reported on. Its enlightening, to say the least !!!!!!

I'm half waiting for the keyboard arriors to join in the fun, by saying "lets all turn up back in UK, and get everything we think we are entitled to"

Like i keep saying............know the rules before you play the game

Penkoprod

[Livinginexile]

"For sure by your comments your an arsehole_e. Take this in. Fact

My English aunt is married to a yank, he was posted to UK with his job for a number of years. Paid UK tax and was given a NI number.

Went back to US to work. Retired, The UK pay him a pension for the years he paid NI, AND GIVE THE YANK INCREASES WHEN THEY OCCUR, why, because he's in a country on the government list. He's not even ENGLISH. He was gob smacked and laughed all the way to the bank. Do you think that is right ???????"

It's just not fair is it? but that's England for you

I'm a British born Australian, left England when I was 7 years old.

Being British my Australian son got citizenship within 10 days of applying.

He then went to England with some friends, completed university, came home and the whole thing was free!

Sure there is a huge dept but who would go back there and live anyway

Just isn't fair is it?

Edited June 28, 2010 by Livinginexile

[cardholder]

[quote name='Penkoprod' date='2010-06-28 22:

Of course i can see the grievance !!!!!!!

But i can also see the futility in fighting for any change. Especially when people sound off without knowing either the history of, or rules of what they are objecting to.

Remember this hasnt just cropped up in the past few years, but morelike the past 20. And the case for Expat pensioners hasnt progressed in that time, either. In fact, its gone backwards, if anything

How long now, have "the powers that be" been saying pension reforms have been called for?

Like i keep saying............know the rules before you play the game

Penkoprod

That is all very well but the bastards keep changing the rules.

I semi-retired at age 50 with a 15 year plan. That plan has been dented by:-

a) Me not seeing the recession coming and, as a consequence, losing as much over 2 years as I expected to make.

b)Ditto in respect of property capital values.

c) The UK government starting to tinker with the start date of my pension. You cannot anticipate these rule changes and, as a result, I may have to alter my plans.

Edited June 28, 2010 by cardholder

[Penkoprod]

The UK system, pensions, health, whatever, were achieved by the ordinary working bloke fighting for what is right, not those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, the ordinary bloke. Took a long time but now foreigners are fighting to get into the UK to get what our fore fathers have achieved. The same ordinary working bloke is now fighting for a bit of justice to retire where he wants, not about agreements with other countries, what is right for an individual who has worked his life and paid into the system. We all paid the same taxes and NI, and when we retire who gives a shit where you are and what you are doing. Work finished, feet up, wait to die, thats it, simple.

Nice bit of sabre rattling, comrade, but thats all it is......... sabre rattling. Like a lot of expat pensioners who are pissing against the wind, unfortunatly.

You just dont get it, do you?

You are up against a far bigger foe, with far bigger grievances, and fighting bigger injustices than that...one of which is (in their eyes) greedy expat pensioners, who have never paid tax on their State Pensions, either while contributing to it, and not now that they have it.

Simply put, you are asking people to work 5 years longer than you, and then to contribute more of their taxes towards your (earlier than them) pension increases while you are "living the dream" and taking your money with you.

The only problem they might have with that is which word to put before the word "off"

Again.....not my feelings, but one that shows the futility of it all.

Like i said in my very 1st post....remember the proverb?

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;

Courage to change the things I can;

And wisdom to know the difference.

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

That is all very well but the bastards keep changing the rules.

I semi-retired at age 50 with a 15 year plan. That plan has been dented by:-

a) Me not seeing the recession coming and, as a consequence, losing as much over 2 years as I expected to make.

b)Ditto in respect of property capital values.

c) The UK government starting to tinker with the start date of my pension. You cannot anticipate these rule changes and, as a result, I may have to alter my plans.

Just a quick reply, as i am logging off soon til tomorrow:

A) Your fault you didnt see the recession coming. It was forecast at least 2 years before the pooh hit the fan

Again.......your fault as a property crash was predicted 2 years before it happened

C) You didnt know government after government for the past thirty years that i know of have been saying "we need to work longer to provide for our old age"???????

Nice insight, but i fail to see the relevance to the thread tbh

Penkoprod

[somtampet]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

You quote the bible,so why have you no humility.One day you will be an old fart,see how you view life then

[Penkoprod]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

You quote the bible,so why have you no humility.One day you will be an old fart,see how you view life then

I AM an old fart, now...but one that sees the futility of this "endevour" only too well.

Read all my posts for a better insight of how i stand on this

*Edit

And, just for the record, where did i call ANYONE an old fart (except myself just now)?????

Penkoprod

Edited June 28, 2010 by Penkoprod

[thaibeachlovers]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

Do expats have voting rights in the UK?

As baby boomers will soon have a majority of votes, there will no doubt be a grey power movement to vote in MPs that support elder's interests.

Once I return to my own homeland, I shall be getting involved in grey power for just such a reason.

As for the tired old argument that there are not enough young people working to pay for it- rubbish- there are millions of educated people in overpopulated countries that would like nothing more than to come and work there!

[chiang mai]

Absolutely NOTHING to do with reciprocal arrangements - just intransigence (and indifference) on the part of the UK government.

It's absolutely everything to do with reciprocal arrangements - there is effectively a collective of nations that have reciprocal pension and pension tax/COLA arrangements, if you live within the collective you will benefit, if you live outside you will not. Case in point, the US pays SS Pension in full to US or UK resident Brits but deducts a non-refundable/reclaimable 24% tax on Brits (and on any other foreign nationals)who choose to live in a different country, aka Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

You are up against a far bigger foe, with far bigger grievances, and fighting bigger injustices than that...one of which is (in their eyes) greedy expat pensioners, who have never paid tax on their State Pensions, either while contributing to it, and not now that they have it.

Stae pensions are taxed at source so everyone receiving a pension is paying tax on it.

Many (probably the majority of) pensioners overseas worked in UK and paid taxes on their income there as well as paying their NI contributions while working in UK.

So both your arguments are not valid reasons for having different rules for those that live in certain countries who may not even have paid taxes in UK on their income but DO receive the increase.

[theoldgit]

It is an iniquity, but I doubt it is going to change.

By living overseas we save the government money on the NHS.

However if this rule has to stand, it should be applied to ALL pensioners,

including teachers and civil servants, who live overseas.......

The rule already applies to all UK pensioners who live overseas, including the state pensions of teachers and civil servants. However the job related pensions of civil servants are index linked wherever you live in the world, and of course are fully taxed in the UK, I believe this applies to most, if not all, job related pensions.

Somebody pointed that you need to understand the rules, the rules are very clear, if you don't live in the UK, the EU or a few other countries like the Philippines and the US, your pension is frozen at the rate you first receive it, this is enshrined in pension laws. Likewise the index linking and full worldwide payment at the full rate is enshrined in civil service pension legislation.

Civil Servants get a lot of stick over their pensions, though they did not get stick over the years when their salary was abated to fund their pensions, and of course civil servants pay various contributions. The fact that successive governments have not used the funds saved by this abatement or the contributions to actually fund the pensions is not the fault of the civil servants. Don't imagine that all Civil Servants were high flying Whitehall Mandarins drawing massive pensions, many earn pensions a lot lower than the current state pensions. Action has already been taken to reduce the pension rights of civil servants and I suspect there is more to come.

Going back to the OP, I wish you well but I suspect you already realise that you are on hiding to nothing.

[Penkoprod]

Good luck....you are going to need it !!!!!Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, and i suppose its OK to have a rant and rave about it, but, ultimatly thats all this is, as it wont change a thing back in the UK. All groups like this will be seen as just another bunch of old farts, with too much time on their hands....begging for money to which they are not entitled to, by every rule and ruling thats been made on the subject, unfortunatly. Thats the reality of it Especially if you are going to be singing the same tired old songs that have been thrown out of every court the case has been presented in

You know the ones? The ballads of "i've paid my contributions all my working life, and now feel entitled to increases as of right" or "i still pay taxes on my pension" or how about "people in other countries get it, so why cant i?" All sound quite plausible, but, ultimatly flawed Dont get me wrong, here, i'm all for getting a fair share of the pot, but the pot is getting smaller and smaller, and expat pensioners are the last in line for any benefit to be paid out to them. Always have been, and always will be. I can certainly see nothing will change for the good in my lifetime.

How does that proverb/prayer go?..... God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. I will just spend my time, making my plans around how not to get into a situation whereby i am relying on a meagre increase (manipulated to be the lower of the 2 inflation rates used in UK, btw!!!!) in my State Pension.

Penkoprod

Do expats have voting rights in the UK?

As baby boomers will soon have a majority of votes, there will no doubt be a grey power movement to vote in MPs that support elder's interests.

Once I return to my own homeland, I shall be getting involved in grey power for just such a reason.

As for the tired old argument that there are not enough young people working to pay for it- rubbish- there are millions of educated people in overpopulated countries that would like nothing more than to come and work there!

You're the only one thats mentioned anything about "the tired old argument that there are not enough young people working to pay for it" I certainy havent, so i have to ask why you quoted me in your reply.

Also, if you believe that baby boomers will be forming any kind of majority of voters in the future, then dream on, fella !!!!! Do you seriously think that, out of the nearly 40 million registered voters as of Dec 2009, over half of them are "grey"??????

Then, when you DO come back to these shores you are in for one HECK of a wake-up call, believe me !!!!!

You will then see what a coniving, manipulative bunch of rogues we have had at the helm for the past goodness knows how many years, and just how manipulated and "beat down" the population of the country REALLY are. (probably the reason why most people buggered off in the 1st place)

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

The UK system, pensions, health, whatever, were achieved by the ordinary working bloke fighting for what is right, not those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, the ordinary bloke. Took a long time but now foreigners are fighting to get into the UK to get what our fore fathers have achieved. The same ordinary working bloke is now fighting for a bit of justice to retire where he wants, not about agreements with other countries, what is right for an individual who has worked his life and paid into the system. We all paid the same taxes and NI, and when we retire who gives a shit where you are and what you are doing. Work finished, feet up, wait to die, thats it, simple.

Nice bit of sabre rattling, comrade, but thats all it is......... sabre rattling. Like a lot of expat pensioners who are pissing against the wind, unfortunatly. You just dont get it, do you? You are up against a far bigger foe, with far bigger grievances, and fighting bigger injustices than that...one of which is (in their eyes) greedy expat pensioners, who have never paid tax on their State Pensions, either while contributing to it, and not now that they have it. Simply put, you are asking people to work 5 years longer than you, and then to contribute more of their taxes towards your (earlier than them) pension increases while you are "living the dream" and taking your money with you. The only problem they might have with that is which word to put before the word "off" Again.....not my feelings, but one that shows the futility of it all. Like i said in my very 1st post....remember the proverb? God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference. Penkoprod

Blimey, if we all thought like you, we would be speaking German now. No balls. The OP is fighting, not surrendering. May be futile, but he is trying.

Dont get me wrong....i love a good fight. But when the oponents are armed to the teeth with the latest weaponry, and i look at those thats going to fight alongside me, and see something that looks like the cast of Night of the Living Dead, with nothing in the locker except looking scary, then its time to re-evaluate the situation. Nothing to do with balls, but more a case of common sense...."he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day"

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

You are up against a far bigger foe, with far bigger grievances, and fighting bigger injustices than that...one of which is (in their eyes) greedy expat pensioners, who have never paid tax on their State Pensions, either while contributing to it, and not now that they have it.

Stae pensions are taxed at source so everyone receiving a pension is paying tax on it.

Many (probably the majority of) pensioners overseas worked in UK and paid taxes on their income there as well as paying their NI contributions while working in UK.

So both your arguments are not valid reasons for having different rules for those that live in certain countries who may not even have paid taxes in UK on their income but DO receive the increase.

I keep saying...these aren't "my arguments" In fact they are the arguments of UK government. The same government and the same aruments they have put forward in every court case that they have had to fight on this subject. And won it without having to get the propoganda bus out of the garage either. Nevermind actually putting it into gear.

Let me explain by way of an example:

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "did you pay income tax at source on the contributions you made?" Whats the answer?.... NO

The UK GOVERNMENT will ask "do you pay income tax at source on your State Pension?" Whats the answer.... NO

This is where a lot of people lose the argument. Tax ISNT paid on the State Pension (according to the UK government) because, simply put, the figures fall WAY below the INCREASED tax allowance that you get when you reach pensionable age.

Remember, we are talking about (just) the State Pension, and nothing else, whether that be an occupational pension, a private pension, or rental income...its irrelevant to the arument. You mentioned it yourself. My turn to quote YOU now

Stae pensions are taxed at source so everyone receiving a pension is paying tax on it.

Ok, next up is contributions:

What do you feel you are being denied that you contributed to? Are you being refused a basic State Pension? Whats the answer.....NO

Because that all your (or anyone elses) contributions covered....the basic State Pension. The yearly increases are based on a DIFFERENT set of rules that are based on residency. What the government will (and HAVE said time after time) is that no one forced you to move to Thailand. You went of your own free will.

Again, let me quote you:

Many (probably the majority of) pensioners overseas worked in UK and paid taxes on their income there as well as paying their NI contributions while working in UK.

See what we are up against? Its not so much the UK government thats winning, but, because of "benign ignorance" of those arguing the case against the UK government and losing badly. A bit like turning up for a match against Roger Federer dressed in wetsuit, snorkel, fins and mask, carrying a table tennis bat. He will wipe the floor with you.....right?

Like i keep saying...know the rules if you want to make a good game of it. Otherwise, just be prepared to provide the comic relief (to the detrement of every expat pensioner that is, has been and will be)

Penkoprod