Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[cardholder]

Dont get me wrong. I am NOT objecting to anyone having a go at trying to fix this, but what i must admit i DO get annoyed with people using the same, flawed arguments that have been thrown out of court, time after time after time, in spite of the fact that they ARE flawed, and then argue that they AREN'T flawed, when its shown to be as plain as a pikestaff that they are.

You (we) need more than that to try to break down a seemingly impregnable wall. We wont get it by using the same moans and rants

Just for the record, i have said very little about my own opinion on the case of expat pensioners (and pensions in general), but i will do now:

Its absolutely derisory, and one that the lawmakers should hang their heads in shame over... but they wont, and neither will they change any rules/laws/regulations or whatever one wants to call them

But thats only my opinion. Do you think that the mandrains of Whitehhall value it? Not in the least !!!!! And same goes for anyone else that thinks they do.

Thats the saddest part of all this

Penkoprod

For the record, it is "Mandarins" of Whitehall, and, NO they don't give a <deleted>.

The whole point of this, and similar head against brick wall situations, is to find someone who DOES give a shit. A rebel with a cause can achieve an awful lot.

ONE PERSON.

Dear oh dear, is THAT what you are reduced to........picking up on typos? How sad Just keep your eyes open, as there will be plenty more, no doubt !!!!

just that you might appreciate the correction.

Ooops ! Forgot, you know it all already :jerk:

[Penkoprod]

It's irrelevent whether you've paid tax on your contributions or pay tax on your pension if that's the excuse they're using. They're the real false bogus arguments.

They may as well ask the question "Have you ever been to the moon?" - NO, then you don't qualify for an increase in pension unless you live in USA or Philippines.

The problem with what you're saying is, that its NOT "the excuse they're using" but one of the three weapons (i use the term loosely) of choice on the pensioners side !!!! The government counter them easily

The three of them are......

"I pay tax on my pension"

"I contributed to it all my working life"

"Pensioners in other countries get the increase, so i should!!!"

OK, i'm not having a go at you, personally, here, but each one of those has been used in different posts on this thread, and each one of them has been shown to be a redundant, and therefore useless....as in:

A) Tax ISNT paid on the State Pension..either the pension itself, or the contributions

We get (or will get) what our contributions entitle us to at retirement age

C) No one forced anyone to retire to a country where no increases to the pensions are made.

And THATS whats happened in every court that the issue of expat State Pension increases has been heard in. The case for the increases has been thrown out because thats all the pensioners side bring to the table. Do you not see that????

We need to play a different tune, as those 3 are not in the charts anymore. The $64,000 question is what weapons CAN BE used that are more effective (please...OTHER than those 3 listed above)

I cant think of any. Perhaps you can.

At least you are intelligent enough not to have "shot the messenger" like a few have on here, and are prepared to debate in an adult fashion....and i thank you for that.

Just some food for thought now....... why do you suppose no national (or regional) newspaper has taken up the fight on behalf of the expat pensioners?

Go into the pubs, clubs and public meeting places, go into the shops, factories and offices throughout the land, and you will find the reason why. That the majority of the British public are vehemently OPPOSED to pensioners "in far away paradises" getting any increases at all. In fact some of the most staunchest opponants are saying they (we) are lucky to be granted ANY pension whatsoever.

So all thats REALLY left to do is take to the streets. Are you going to lead the band? I certainly aint, and thats being honest.

Are you, or anyone here going to be a Wat Tyler, a Militant Tendency leader or other anti Poll Tax protesters leader, an Arthur Scargill?

Be honest....the answer is "no" isn't it?

People have been trying to find other ways round it for the past 20 years or more, and havent found the key to the box. People with far more intelligence and experience of this than you, i or anyone else on this or any forum.

Are we reduced to sitting and waiting for a gladiator..........."A hero will rise"? Seems that way, huh?

Penkoprod

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

the majority of the British public are vehemently OPPOSED to pensioners "in far away paradises" getting any increases at all. In fact some of the most staunchest opponants are saying they (we) are lucky to be granted ANY pension whatsoever.

<snip>

Typical British envy.

[thaibeachlovers]

<br />

<br />I'll take issue with that. It's CHEAPER for the government to have pensioners outside the UK, as they're not occupying council housing, getting free travel, free medical care ( the elderly are the largest users of the NHS ) using services etc etc. If the government had a clue, they'd be doing everything in their power to have as many pensioners as possible emmigrate, even if that entailed paying them pension increases.<br />I read somewhere the Japanese government were trying to get their pensioners to go elsewhere already.

<br /><br />Again..putting words in my mouth?<br />I never mentioned costs at all. But, yes, it could work out cheaper, but no one that counts will care whether it does or not.<br />Like i have said previously, the "powers that be" see pensioners as nothing more than a burden on the welfare state,and people who have outlived their usefulness, sad to say. But, dont forget, most of them (pensioners, that is) wont move very far, and stay in Europe and WILL get increases, so its a moot point really  <br /><br /><br />

<br />As for "asking people to work 5 years longer', no we're not, we're just asking for the same deal as we paid taxes all our life for the previous generation. If there's no money in the kitty, it's not our fault. None of us were bankers fiddling the books with government connivance. The money hasn't vanished, someone's got it, get it back. Perhaps putting some bankers ( and gordon ) in jail for the rest of their life for what they did will produce some readies ( I'm just dreaming )!<br />

<br />All i can say to that is i must have read the wrong papers, then<br /><br /><a href='http://www.independent.co.uk/money/pensions/work-until-70-and-beyond-if-you-want-a-decent-pension-1671322.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>One</a> <a href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5281206/Britons-face-working-until-70-to-help-bring-public-debt-under-control.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Two</a> <a href='http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/182949/Retirement-Outrage-over-work-till-70-' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Three</a> <a href='http://www.independent.co.uk/money/pensions/pensions-expert-predicts-work-till-youre-70-era-1769303.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Four</a> <a href='http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Pension-Retirement-Age-Could-Go-Up-To-70-Under-Government-Plans-To-Overhaul-System/Article/201006415654123' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Five</a><br /><br />

<br />Anyway, once "Grey Power" takes over, we can change it, and punish the guilty **&^^%! <br />

<br />You<b> REALLY</b> have a thing about this "grey power", dont you????<br />I 1st heard that expression in the early 70's lol!!!! (Still waiting for it to manifest itself, though)<br /><br />Penkoprod<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Well, in MY homeland, which ISN'T the UK, Grey Power still exists. As more baby boomers get older, we may be able to make a difference at the polls, though obviously not form a government.

[thaibeachlovers]

<br />

<snip><br />the majority of the British public are vehemently <b>OPPOSED</b> to pensioners "in far away paradises" getting any increases at all. In fact some of the most staunchest opponants are saying they (we) are lucky to be granted<b> ANY</b> pension whatsoever.<br /><snip><br />

<br /><br />Typical British envy.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

My experience of living in Britain leads me to believe that the vast majority don't care about anything but themselves. That's why they got into the poo in the first place.

I saw what was coming when I first moved there in '98 ( anyone with half a brain cell knew the bubble would burst ), but I was unfortunately unable to "escape" to Thailand with my NHS "lump sum" before gordon and his crony capitalists, both in the UK and America, were able to destroy the exchange rate. Had I been able to take the same amount of Sterling here when the rate was 71, I'd be a happy chappie now- wouldn't even need the pension!

[Nignoy]

another 4 pages of drivel!!all you poor expat pensioners in thailand whinging about your entitlements, it is your own fault if you did not do enough research before moving to thailand,here in aus we more british expat pensioners than anywhere else in the world, many have been campaigning for equal pension rights for years, but after the final negative verdict at the european court, have given up the fight, especially after a government representative proved so eloquently that thailand and Portugal are the preferred home of social security cheats costing the taxpayers 10s of millions of pounds a year,so if we want any reform at all, we have to get rid of all these cheats first,Before the shitstorm starts, I am a disabled british war pensioner living in australia and I do pay 49 cents on the dollar tax on my british pension

[Penkoprod]

My experience of living in Britain leads me to believe that the vast majority don't care about anything but themselves. That's why they got into the poo in the first place.

I saw what was coming when I first moved there in '98 ( anyone with half a brain cell knew the bubble would burst ), but I was unfortunately unable to "escape" to Thailand with my NHS "lump sum" before gordon and his crony capitalists, both in the UK and America, were able to destroy the exchange rate. Had I been able to take the same amount of Sterling here when the rate was 71, I'd be a happy chappie now- wouldn't even need the pension!

Would Sir like some cheese with that w(h)ine? Or is Sir OK with just the Wallow Nouveau on its own?

Seriously, though its the "same song different singer" routine, over and over....and over again.

I'm just suprised there has been no ranters saying "we should all go home and get what we are rightfully entitled to, and show these people who's boss!!!!".... ANOTHER waste of time and effort.

Can i ask you what you did for the "campaign" prior to leaving for Thailand with your retirement nest egg and plan in place?

Anything?

Or was it just a case of working on your plan and thinking "seventy odd Baht to the pound and low cost...i'll live like a f*cking king out there......bring it on!!!!"?

Now what was the first line of what you said? Something about the vast majority not caring about anything but themselves, wasnt it??

And just because now your nest egg has has shrunk to the point of you only getting 47 Baht to The Pound, and Thai inflation has eroded it as well, you're suddenly galvanised into thinking about doing something about it. All you can come up with is a rendition of the same old songs...sung from thousands of miles away, and have been sung for the past twenty years, and ignored as a minor nuisance by both those in authority, who swat it away with but a flick of their little pinkie, and the majority of the British public, who see expat pensioners as greedy, selfish pricks who have made their bed and now that its gone lumpy want THEM to provide funds for them to fix it. And THAT'S the reality of it

Again, i'm not having a go at you personally, but people dont seem to realise how small and insignificant the "problem" is. And, yet again i am NOT saying i am against getting yearly increases when it becomes my time to "live in the sun" as it were. But, at the moment fail to see any way forward, unless it involves taking to the streets..... VIOLENTLY.

Both in numbers affected, and the "armoury" thats used in the fight. And, while it might seem easy for them to just pay the money and have done with it, they dont want to and they dont need to. And you know why they dont?..... because they are showing YOU who's the boss. THEY ARE !!!!! And nobody is prepared to give them a bloody nose so they change their minds and attitudes.

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

My experience of living in Britain leads me to believe that the vast majority don't care about anything but themselves. That's why they got into the poo in the first place.

I saw what was coming when I first moved there in '98 ( anyone with half a brain cell knew the bubble would burst ), but I was unfortunately unable to "escape" to Thailand with my NHS "lump sum" before gordon and his crony capitalists, both in the UK and America, were able to destroy the exchange rate. Had I been able to take the same amount of Sterling here when the rate was 71, I'd be a happy chappie now- wouldn't even need the pension!

Would Sir like some cheese with that w(h)ine? Or is Sir OK with just the Wallow Nouveau on its own?

Seriously, though its the "same song different singer" routine, over and over....and over again.

I'm just suprised there has been no ranters saying "we should all go home and get what we are rightfully entitled to, and show these people who's boss!!!!".... ANOTHER waste of time and effort.

Can i ask you what you did for the "campaign" prior to leaving for Thailand with your retirement nest egg and plan in place?

Anything?

Or was it just a case of working on your plan and thinking "seventy odd Baht to the pound and low cost...i'll live like a f*cking king out there......bring it on!!!!"?

Now what was the first line of what you said? Something about the vast majority not caring about anything but themselves, wasnt it??

And just because now your nest egg has has shrunk to the point of you only getting 47 Baht to The Pound, and Thai inflation has eroded it as well, you're suddenly galvanised into thinking about doing something about it. All you can come up with is a rendition of the same old songs...sung from thousands of miles away, and have been sung for the past twenty years, and ignored as a minor nuisance by both those in authority, who swat it away with but a flick of their little pinkie, and the majority of the British public, who see expat pensioners as greedy, selfish pricks who have made their bed and now that its gone lumpy want THEM to provide funds for them to fix it. And THAT'S the reality of it

Again, i'm not having a go at you personally, but people dont seem to realise how small and insignificant the "problem" is. And, yet again i am NOT saying i am against getting yearly increases when it becomes my time to "live in the sun" as it were. But, at the moment fail to see any way forward, unless it involves taking to the streets..... VIOLENTLY.

Both in numbers affected, and the "armoury" thats used in the fight. And, while it might seem easy for them to just pay the money and have done with it, they dont want to and they dont need to. And you know why they dont?..... because they are showing YOU who's the boss. THEY ARE !!!!! And nobody is prepared to give them a bloody nose so they change their minds and attitudes.

Penkoprod

What a load of tosh, the more l read your posts the more l think you got a screw loose.

HEEL !!!!!

FETCH !!!!!

ROLL OVER !!!!

SII----IIIIT !!!!

GOOD BOY !!!!!

(I'm SO glad you are still following me round like the lapdog you say you arent)

If you dont like what i post then ingnore them and move on....... thats simple enough even for for you to understand?

[The Philosopher]

I really feel that if anyone has to RELY on their UK State Pension as anything else but beer money, they have not properly

saved nor planned for their retirement.

[Penkoprod]

It's just rather unfortunate that a topic l am interested in is being dominated with total tosh by you that needs a reply.

Tell me one other topic that l have commented on, on any reply from you, is there one ???? No, just this one so please don't imply that l am stalking your every topic reply.

You must have heard of the saying ' If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen ', which even for you to understand means if you can't stand criticism then don't post. In fact your attitude to members is quite annoying, and l am not referring to me. Call me all the names and make all the childish remarks you like, it's great really cos it shows readers what you really are about.

Ok. this will be my last direct conversation with you on this subject, if you are going to reduce it to name calling etc

But firstly look at THIS link. That the "one other topic" that you deny commenting on. One of, no doubt others that would follow had i not pointed out how childish they are, and you were being..........right?

And its strange that you now are posting your attacks on me within 30 mins of me posting my reply to another poster altogether. And then you choose to comment on it, but say you arent stalking me. I guess you will wait longer than 30 mins now.......just to "prove" your point .Grow up will ya &lt;deleted&gt; ????

On a broader note, can someone tell me where anything i have said isnt the truth?

The tactics used by the pensioners have been proven to be easily countered every time they have been used over the past 20 years, to try to lever a reversal of government policy arent the same ones thats being proposed by some on here?

Thats the whole crux of the problem. The fact that those tactics ARE being advocated here, and are STILL a waste of time.........right?

Great for a rant and rave, but not much else....right?

Like i say, i wont be commenting directly to you anymore. I dont sweat the petty things, and i dont pet the sweaty things

Bye, turkey.

I will leave the last word to you if you so wish

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

I really feel that if anyone has to RELY on their UK State Pension as anything else but beer money, they have not properly

saved nor planned for their retirement.

I dont think its a case of anyone not planning properly so much, but more one of people now being on the other side of the fence, so to speak, and realising the injustice in the whole thing.

Whereas. before they were either ignorant of the rules and regs regaring the subject, or just didnt see the implications of them.

Stable doors and bolting horses comes to mind.

Penkoprod

[chiang mai]

I really feel that if anyone has to RELY on their UK State Pension as anything else but beer money, they have not properly

saved nor planned for their retirement.

Well I planned and saved the bejesus out of mine but I'm still happy to have that extra hundred quid a week that didn't factor in my plans at the outset - and despite all my planning and saving, the events of the past couple of years have meant that I'm not where I thought I would be so it's a nice safety net, doubtless there are others who feel the same way.

[billd766]

I found this on the BBC news website this morning.

I am not sure if I am allowed to post the whole thread so I have posted a little followed by the address.

It is not only Thailand hw

where pensioners are struggling.

Pensioners 'relying on the state', says ONS

Page last updated at 09:46 GMT, Friday, 2 July 2010 10:46 UK

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• Printable version

Continue reading the main story How changing lifestyles affect your finances Statistics chart family changes

A third of UK pensioners rely solely on the state for income during their retirement years, according to official statistics.

Some 31% of pensioners had no provision other than the state pension and the top-up offered through minimum income guarantee or pension credit.

The figures, from 2007-8, were published in the Office for National Statistics' Social Trends survey.

The publication is an annual account of the state of the nation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10487278.stm

[billd766]

I really feel that if anyone has to RELY on their UK State Pension as anything else but beer money, they have not properly

saved nor planned for their retirement.

I think that is the wrong comment to make on this topic. The topic is about fairness for all.

You cannot categorise all UK citizens with the pen pusher with his fancy pension and the guy who cleans the streets or works in McDonald's cos thats his ability, then struggles to raise a family and perhaps buy a house and expect him to put money in a pension sceam. Perhaps you have family that when they pop off leave you their house etc but many don't have that luxury so a little thought should be made for the UK society as a whole, not just the fortunate ones.

Just a thought, how much does an MP get per day for his sandwich allowance that the rest of us have to pay out of our wages, you would be staggered in comparison to what a pensioner has to live on. You will say thats off topic but it's one rule for those with money and another for the poorest in society.

I second that.

[thaimate]

I really cannot understand why you all keep going on,its not fair ,but its over,we lost.LIVE WITH IT.

[Penkoprod]

Can i ask all the bleaters, moaners and detracters, and all those that are shooting the messenger, have they even bothered to read the rules, regs and history of the UK State Pension Scheme?

Or is it just a case of waiting for someone to clap their hands and then go into "furby mode"? That of talking gibberish for a short while, before falling silent again, til the next time someone claps?

Well, i HAVE read them, and while it makes interesting, even edifying reading, theres nothing in there to suggest anything to the advantage of someone wishing to, or has already done so......retire to Thailand, yearly increase wise. And here i'm not talking about from the 1600's where a small "sailors pension" was granted to certain seafarers, but the modern day pension scheme, from 1905 right up to the present day. I admit i havent delved into the times when when either "recipricol agreements" or whatever they were/are, or why and when pensioners in Europe came under the umbrella of yearly increases. Its not applicable to my case......that of retiring to Thailand.

Some people seem to have a problem dealing with reality. Thats not how it should be, or how it might be, its just how it ...........IS.

Have any of you bothered to contact/meet with your MP and told him or her your concerns and grievences?

Or is it just a case of impersonating one of those little furry dogs where you flick a switch on its battery compartment hidden underneath it, and, when placed on the floor, it goes into its routine for the short time amusement of those onlooking? Until its time to get bored with it, and consign it to the cupboard to gather dust?

Well i HAVE seen my MP. Firstly, i wrote to him in 2000............i'm still waiting for the reply. Then, when i moved from the area i went the other route of arranging a meeting at another MPs surgery. This was in 2002/3 i think

All i will say in respect of said meeting when it DID take place is that it wasnt very nice to sit opposite a smug grinning, patronising person and have to listen while they pull apart every argument i presented. Those argument were of "no fair, wah wah wah !!!!!!!, someone else gets it, so why not MEEEEE???? "

Then there was the " i pay my income tax on it" followed by "i will have paid in all my life, so should be entitled..............etc, etc" Totally and systematically pulled them apart, i kid you not !!!!!. And then i was showed sympathy, and told , "it would certainly be look into it further, should the time be right" when shaking my hand after the meeting.i'm STILL waiting !!!!

those points i raised with her ()Sound familiar at all????

Believe me, i have racked my brains looking for any loophole and there isnt one in the legislation and some people have VASTLY underestimated the opposition to the case for increases from both the UK government and the British people.

My avatar is just that....an avatar. People shouldnt look at this like the guy in it does !!!!!

Heads out of &lt;deleted&gt; and look for some other plan to try and get the justice you crave. Or just take it on the chin, pick yourself up, dust yourself down and count your blessings.... you COULD have chosen a place based on getting the increase each year instead. France, anyone? USA? Portugal? Romania? How about Turkey...etc, etc? The CHOICE is/was yours to make.

Penkoprod

[chiang mai]

This entire thread is looking extremely sad at best, relevant points have been made, remade, made again and just to be sure, made yet again, perhaps better to let it whither and die at this stage.

[Nignoy]

suggestion!! penkoprod and transam frilly handbags at 3paces , you both gibber on like dyslexic lemurs

[Penkoprod]

This entire thread is looking extremely sad at best, relevant points have been made, remade, made again and just to be sure, made yet again, perhaps better to let it whither and die at this stage.

Point is, though, its such an important subject

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but i have "been there, done that, got the battlescars to prove it" when it comes to the subject.

And, if it means pointing out the same pitfalls and bad strategies that i encountered and used, then i am perfectly entitled to, am i not?

Trouble is, though that its also an emotive subject, and some people cant seem to be able to handle the truth. My mistake was in not ignoring the 1st insulting post, and further childish behavior to my posts, offering information only. I stated earlier i will ignore his bile filled posts and chalk them up to experience.

However, if you will excuse me, i am going to watch the Argentina-Germany game, as its turning out to be a cracker !!!!

I shall say no more on the subject ( the threadf*ck, i mean...NOT the original thread)

Penkoprod

[scotsman]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

[billd766]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

The flaw I can see in that plan is that it will probably cost you more than you gain as I believe that your pension will go to the new rate while you are there and revert to the original rate when you leave.

IF you don't tell them and IF they don't catch you then you could be onto a good thing.

As for me I will stay here, get no ,more increases and bitch every now and then.

And now it is time for my after lunch nap as most of us oldies do.

[Penkoprod]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

As admirable as your thinking is, its unfortunatly nearly as doomed to failure as all of the gung-ho, yoikes tally-ho, oldbean, lets show them our British bulldog spirit cheerleading routines here that you correctly assess as flogging a dead horse.

For one thing, the current price for a return airfare is around the £650 mark. Even if you get ten pounds a week increase, thats an awful lot of weeks before you break even.....just on airfare alone. No mention yet of you having to pay indirect taxes, such as VAT on all but your food, Council tax, or whatever they levy in Scotland, etc, etc.

Then there's the fact that the things that made you want to leave are still there (here) And probably in greater numbers and gravity than they where when originally leaving.

And thats without casting any doubt over whether or not you keep said increases once you leave again. As biild766 point out, you might NOT

Still, its refreshing to hear something different

Penkoprod

[simon43]

I think my understanding is correct here, can someone tell me why UK pensioners who live in The Philippines receive an index-linked pension?

What agreement does T.P. have with the UK?

Simon

[Penkoprod]

I think my understanding is correct here, can someone tell me why UK pensioners who live in The Philippines receive an index-linked pension?

What agreement does T.P. have with the UK?

Simon

Ah !!!!! Thats the $64,0000 question !!!!!!!

No one can shed any light on these, only to say that they are "bogus recipricol agreements" or whatever

But yes, its true that expat pensioners retiring to The Philippines get yearly increases as if they were resident in UK

Can i ask why you ask?

If its a case of getting an accomodation address in PI and using that for a way round the problem, then it doesnt have to be PI, but can, just as easily be in France, Italy, Spain etc...ANY country that expat pensioners get it.

I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime

Penkoprod

[chiang mai]

I think my understanding is correct here, can someone tell me why UK pensioners who live in The Philippines receive an index-linked pension?

What agreement does T.P. have with the UK?

Simon

I have never heard of the PI being included in the list of countries where the UK government pays the cost of living increase on state pensions, can you provide a link to confirm this point, please? Assuming for a moment that what you state is true, the linkage might come by way of the US - I refer back to my earlier post on this subject whereby US SSI pensions paid to British (and other nationalities) non-US residents are only paid gross in the UK, given that scenario presumably the US mission in PI administers the payments, dunno.

EDIT:

Don't bother, I just checked and found this on the Pensions Services website:

"If you are living abroad on a permanent basis you may be entitled to the annual increase to your State Pension rates if you live in an EEA country*, Switzerland, or a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK**.

If you live abroad in any other country you will not receive an annual increase.

* The EEA countries are Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden. The UK is also part of the EEA. UK means England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Gibraltar is treated as another EEA country by the UK. Other EEA countries treat Gibraltar as part of the UK.

** Countries with reciprocal agreements are Barbados, Bermuda, Israel (the agreement with Israel applies to the territory administered by the Government of Israel on 19 July 1956), Jamaica, Jersey and Guernsey, Isle of Man, Mauritius, Philippines, Turkey, USA and the separate republics of the former Yugoslavia that are not EU Member States (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, the Republic of Macedonia and Serbia). Increases are also payable in Sark under the UK domestic legislation".

I can understand the logic of EU & EEA states but the PI confuses me, unless as in the case of Israel it is a US based reciprocal agreement, strange to say the least!

Edited July 4, 2010 by chiang mai

[scotsman]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

As admirable as your thinking is, its unfortunatly nearly as doomed to failure as all of the gung-ho, yoikes tally-ho, oldbean, lets show them our British bulldog spirit cheerleading routines here that you correctly assess as flogging a dead horse.

For one thing, the current price for a return airfare is around the £650 mark. Even if you get ten pounds a week increase, thats an awful lot of weeks before you break even.....just on airfare alone. No mention yet of you having to pay indirect taxes, such as VAT on all but your food, Council tax, or whatever they levy in Scotland, etc, etc.

Then there's the fact that the things that made you want to leave are still there (here) And probably in greater numbers and gravity than they where when originally leaving.

And thats without casting any doubt over whether or not you keep said increases once you leave again. As biild766 point out, you might NOT

Still, its refreshing to hear something different

Penkoprod

Well I have nothing better to do with my time and it only takes a few minutes to sign and you never know.

I was only giving some information on how to get round the British Gov pension increases if someone wanted too, in say 5 or 8 years after you get your pension and by that time it may be worth it. If you stay for 6 months you are now a resident again and will get your increase in your pension at that date and time even when you leave again but it will be frozen again at that rate until you want to do it again. Now that may pay for itself in the years to come.

Regards

Scotsman

[Nignoy]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

As admirable as your thinking is, its unfortunatly nearly as doomed to failure as all of the gung-ho, yoikes tally-ho, oldbean, lets show them our British bulldog spirit cheerleading routines here that you correctly assess as flogging a dead horse.

For one thing, the current price for a return airfare is around the £650 mark. Even if you get ten pounds a week increase, thats an awful lot of weeks before you break even.....just on airfare alone. No mention yet of you having to pay indirect taxes, such as VAT on all but your food, Council tax, or whatever they levy in Scotland, etc, etc.

Then there's the fact that the things that made you want to leave are still there (here) And probably in greater numbers and gravity than they where when originally leaving.

And thats without casting any doubt over whether or not you keep said increases once you leave again. As biild766 point out, you might NOT

Still, its refreshing to hear something different

Penkoprod

Well I have nothing better to do with my time and it only takes a few minutes to sign and you never know.

I was only giving some information on how to get round the British Gov pension increases if someone wanted too, in say 5 or 8 years after you get your pension and by that time it may be worth it. If you stay for 6 months you are now a resident again and will get your increase in your pension at that date and time even when you leave again but it will be frozen again at that rate until you want to do it again. Now that may pay for itself in the years to come.

Regards

Scotsman

once again penky my old son you are talking &lt;deleted&gt;, it is the age of computers once you are booked out of uk at immigration the wheels start turning, my english wife was home for9 months 2 years ago, her pension changed she got her entitled raise but within 8 weeks of returning to aus she was informed by mail she had only been a temporary resident and had to pay the 9 months allowances that she had recieved back to the lovely people in newcastle, it seems they are really tightening things up and closing all the loopholes , all I can say is cheat at your peril

[Penkoprod]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

As admirable as your thinking is, its unfortunatly nearly as doomed to failure as all of the gung-ho, yoikes tally-ho, oldbean, lets show them our British bulldog spirit cheerleading routines here that you correctly assess as flogging a dead horse.

For one thing, the current price for a return airfare is around the £650 mark. Even if you get ten pounds a week increase, thats an awful lot of weeks before you break even.....just on airfare alone. No mention yet of you having to pay indirect taxes, such as VAT on all but your food, Council tax, or whatever they levy in Scotland, etc, etc.

Then there's the fact that the things that made you want to leave are still there (here) And probably in greater numbers and gravity than they where when originally leaving.

And thats without casting any doubt over whether or not you keep said increases once you leave again. As biild766 point out, you might NOT

Still, its refreshing to hear something different

Penkoprod

Well I have nothing better to do with my time and it only takes a few minutes to sign and you never know.

I was only giving some information on how to get round the British Gov pension increases if someone wanted too, in say 5 or 8 years after you get your pension and by that time it may be worth it. If you stay for 6 months you are now a resident again and will get your increase in your pension at that date and time even when you leave again but it will be frozen again at that rate until you want to do it again. Now that may pay for itself in the years to come.

Regards

Scotsman

once again penky my old son you are talking &lt;deleted&gt;, it is the age of computers once you are booked out of uk at immigration the wheels start turning, my english wife was home for9 months 2 years ago, her pension changed she got her entitled raise but within 8 weeks of returning to aus she was informed by mail she had only been a temporary resident and had to pay the 9 months allowances that she had recieved back to the lovely people in newcastle, it seems they are really tightening things up and closing all the loopholes , all I can say is cheat at your peril

Ok, i'm up for a bit of enlightenment...please show me what part of what you refer to as me talking &lt;deleted&gt; IS &lt;deleted&gt;.

Is it the part where i said an expat who returns to the country and immediatly begins to pay more than any increase he will get?

And is there a free repatriation service for returning expats that only you know about ..... providing free air travel back to the Fatherland, a welcoming brass band at the airport, along with a gospel choir, singing songs about lost sheep being found again. Is there some sort of hiatus for the returning expat, in that they dont have to pay any idirect taxes, such as VAT and council tax etc?

Or could it be that those things that made people piss off from here in the first place have magically been fixed and now all is well in "team GB"?

I think you are getting me confused with someone else, tbh. Or perhaps a different post on this thread should have been quoted by you.

Because the only time i mentioned cheat (i used the word "fraud) was when i said (and i quote)

"I guess it depends on how legal you want to be in the autumn/winter of your life, and how easily you presume the "fraud" is to get away with, and not be detected in your lifetime"

Nothing in there, even, that could be taken as "talking &lt;deleted&gt;"......simply a case of each individual being at liberty to decide for themselves how they see the risks of comitting that fraud are, in relation to the benefits recieved. The term is "risk asessment" i think

In short, you and i were both saying the same thing............but only one of us talking &lt;deleted&gt;?????

And while we are on the subject...yes it IS easy to set up an acommodation address in a country. All it needs is for someone in that country to accept mail on behalf of the person using the address. But that doesnt make it any less illegal to claim something not entitled to. AGAIN, words being twisted and put in my mouth by people who dont like whats being said??????

I await your comments

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

Well i have read all the posts on this subject and flogging a dead horse comes to mind but I will keep signing the next petion and the next just to keep reminding the british gov that this subject has not gone away and it may fall on deaf ears for years to come but one can only hope. Now if you wanted to get round the british gov rules on Pension increases then all you have to do is wait a few years after you get your pension until its worth doing and fly back to the uk for a 6 month holiday and claim your increases then fly back to thailand and repeat the process thats the only legal way.

Regards

Scotsman

As admirable as your thinking is, its unfortunatly nearly as doomed to failure as all of the gung-ho, yoikes tally-ho, oldbean, lets show them our British bulldog spirit cheerleading routines here that you correctly assess as flogging a dead horse.

For one thing, the current price for a return airfare is around the £650 mark. Even if you get ten pounds a week increase, thats an awful lot of weeks before you break even.....just on airfare alone. No mention yet of you having to pay indirect taxes, such as VAT on all but your food, Council tax, or whatever they levy in Scotland, etc, etc.

Then there's the fact that the things that made you want to leave are still there (here) And probably in greater numbers and gravity than they where when originally leaving.

And thats without casting any doubt over whether or not you keep said increases once you leave again. As biild766 point out, you might NOT

Still, its refreshing to hear something different

Penkoprod

Well I have nothing better to do with my time and it only takes a few minutes to sign and you never know.

I was only giving some information on how to get round the British Gov pension increases if someone wanted too, in say 5 or 8 years after you get your pension and by that time it may be worth it. If you stay for 6 months you are now a resident again and will get your increase in your pension at that date and time even when you leave again but it will be frozen again at that rate until you want to do it again. Now that may pay for itself in the years to come.

Regards

Scotsman

But its like i said. Its not a viable proposition.

You might get £2 a week year on year increase by the time the government have fiddled around with deciding which one of the 2 inflation rates they will use............and will ALWAYS use the lower of the two, based on forecast.

This coalition government has decided to use wage inflation as the figure to use to pay the increases......what does THAT tell us????

That says to me....wages will be squeezed, and prices will go skwards.

Its like i said....not a viable proposition, not only to get on a plane and fly back (paying £650 for the privilege) and then pay hundreds of Pounds each week in taxes for the time you are here, just to claim your increase in pension (to whatever meagre level, compared to what you pay out)

And, dont forget....its not that cut and dried whether or not you keep the increases when you leave the country again. I just dont know either way, tbh

I would only believe it if i saw it in plain English and direct from the Department of Works & Pensions. Not much chance of THAT from the DWP !!!!! And not word of mouth from someone.

Penkoprod

[Nignoy]

The point I just wanted to make is that, slowly but surely the powers that be are catching up with the cheats ,if expats dont do enuf research for their retirement, it is their own fault to expect to be able to live anywhere overseas on a uk pension is a bitdaft,