Thai Court Approves Arrest Warrant Against Thaksin On Terrorism Charge

[321niti123]

Sorry, the warrant is only written in Thai, not English, nor French, nor Montenegrin.

But it can be translated into English when used as a cause for extradition, and it is reported by english language newspapers so i should be recognized.

[jdinasia]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

yes, this about sums up the PAD when taking over the 'only' international airport in a major tourism country in high season. Well done for your observation!

BTW b4 anyone says phuket and chaing mai are int!! think again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the PAD takeover cost MORE yes MORE in dollars to the economy than the red's protest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would we have to think again? Phuket and Chiang Mai are Intl. airports You do know what International means right? also genious I think we will wait on the final total since it's going to take tourism a long time to rebound. Talking with some friends today who are GMs for major hotels in BKK they estimate it will take 3-4 months (if nothing else happens) for tourism to even begin to recover from this disaster. dream on little dreamer!

I think Jucel is dreaming if he thinks the 8 days at Swamp cost Thailand more than the red shirt's riots in BKK and that isn't even counting that the PAD were seen as less violent and not intent on the destruction of Thailand to feed just one man's ego!

[A_Traveller]

@chantorn: My understanding was that Khun Krasit went to the airport and made a speech expressing his personal opinion and criticising the then government, a position he says is constitutionally protected.

Regards

[animatic]

[

what we want to say to you

would maybe get us suspended

so play alone and drink plenty of coffee

That's twice you've tried to bait me and I still have no sense of what your objection is.

jucel was asking for a link showing that Thaksin is on an international terrorist watch list.

I think that such a link would not exist yet. I believe it would take more than a few hours from the time Thailand issues an arrest warrant before Thaksin's name would appear on published international terrorist watch lists.

What is so offensive in this idea that you can't speak your mind for fear of suspension from the forum?

I think he just wants to flame you, but can't for fear of a vacation.

[jdinasia]

[

what we want to say to you

would maybe get us suspended

so play alone and drink plenty of coffee

That's twice you've tried to bait me and I still have no sense of what your objection is.

jucel was asking for a link showing that Thaksin is on an international terrorist watch list.

I think that such a link would not exist yet. I believe it would take more than a few hours from the time Thailand issues an arrest warrant before Thaksin's name would appear on published international terrorist watch lists.

What is so offensive in this idea that you can't speak your mind for fear of suspension from the forum?

I think he just wants to flame you, but can't for fear of a vacation.

I already added him to my "blissful silence" list

[NaiGreg]

I must admit I did not read all (or even 1/10) the previous 186 posts, even though it would have been better than sex.

I want to point out that the court must have information from the detainees that helped them feel confident the charges will stick. This will all come out in the wash.

Sorry if it was mentioned before.

-NG

[Arkady]

This is a common misconception that extradition for capital offences is not possible from most countries. However, the US has successfully extradited many murderers, particularly from Canada, on the basis that the public prosecutor's office makes an undertaking to the extraditing government that it will not demand the death penalty. Most extradition treaties also require undertakings that the extraditee will not be tried on any further charges other than those specified in the extradition request.

While you are very correct on this ... I am not sure these same countries will balk at turning over a terrorist facing the death penalty. I could be wrong but terrorism is kind of treated very differently around the world and seems to often fall outside typical criminal charges. Haven't countries in the UK sent terrorists to the US since 9/11? Again, I could be wrong but could swear this has happened a number of times.

In the wake of 9/11, the UK and the US updated their extradition treaty in 2003, specifically to make extradition for terrorism easier. Unfortunately to date it has been mainly used unfairly to facilitate extradition of British citizens for white collar crimes against American laws committed in the UK with hardly any flow in the other direction. Because they are foreigners they usually don't get bail in the US and many people in the UK feel that such cases should be tried in the UK but that's another story. There have been cases for extradition from the UK to the US terrorism under this law and one highly controversial one is the case of Babar Ahmad whohas been subject to torture in the UK which has been recognized by a UK court. Nevertheless, he has been detained in the UK for 6 years already pending possible extradition to the US on charges of providing material support to terrorists, which indicates how seriously terrorism is considered by the UK. I can't give you any specific examples on the capital punishment issue vis a vis the UK and the US but I am pretty sure the US will routinely undertake not to request the death penalty for any terrorist suspect they try to extradite from EU countries or any other country that requires the assurance.

I am not sure how Thai MFA is going to pitch their extradition requests around the world, given that Thailand has not bothered to update its extradition countries which with most countries are ancient. A good example is the Siam - Great Britain Extradition Treaty of 1911 which can only be used to extradite for a specified list of crimes that doesn't include terrorism. Under this treaty Thaksin would have to be specifically charged with crimes such as: murder, conspiracy to commit murder, arson, malicious injury to property by explosives or trafficking in slaves. However, if Thaksin is charged with providing only incitement and material support for these offences, rather than committing them himself, I am not sure if any of these ancient treaties would be applicable. Nevertheless, he probably doesn't want to spend 5 or 6 years in prison or under house arrest waiting to find out whether a treaty is applicable or not, as that would decidely inhibit his ability to foment revolution in Thailand and red shirts ranting about another country's legal double standards would not be very convincing.

[Chaimai]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

yes, this about sums up the PAD when taking over the 'only' international airport in a major tourism country in high season. Well done for your observation!

BTW b4 anyone says phuket and chaing mai are int!! think again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the PAD takeover cost MORE yes MORE in dollars to the economy than the red's protest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would we have to think again? Phuket and Chiang Mai are Intl. airports You do know what International means right? also genious I think we will wait on the final total since it's going to take tourism a long time to rebound. Talking with some friends today who are GMs for major hotels in BKK they estimate it will take 3-4 months (if nothing else happens) for tourism to even begin to recover from this disaster. dream on little dreamer!

I think Jucel is dreaming if he thinks the 8 days at Swamp cost Thailand more than the red shirt's riots in BKK and that isn't even counting that the PAD were seen as less violent and not intent on the destruction of Thailand to feed just one man's ego!

I shall be grateful if jucel can send me his book of maths - or even a breakdown of the respective 'costs to Thailand' of the two events - it should be an interesting read.

[Arkady]

This is a common misconception that extradition for capital offences is not possible from most countries. However, the US has successfully extradited many murderers, particularly from Canada, on the basis that the public prosecutor's office makes an undertaking to the extraditing government that it will not demand the death penalty. Most extradition treaties also require undertakings that the extraditee will not be tried on any further charges other than those specified in the extradition request.

My take on this is:

1) Western countries, such as France, that Thaksin has recently slipped into using his Montenegrin passport may now be too risky for him to visit, as he may be detained under house arrest in prison for a long period while they consider extradition. He may even actually get extradited, if he visits such countries. It may even get harder for Dubai to justify keeping him.

2) What is quite significant in the Thai legal context is that this is a charge that cannot be directly traced back to any the revolutionary decrees after the coup. The charge he was convicted on and nearly all the others pending were investigated by the AEC which was established as a result of a revolutionary decree. Thaksin's strategy all along has been to annul the 2007 constitution and the temporary constitution after the coup which provide legality to the revolutionary decrees and the coup itself. By reverting to the 1997 constitution all charges investigated by the AEC could be declared null and void. There is one other case that was brought by the DSI, rather than the AEC, to do with assets concealment to do with the ownership of SC Assets. This case was squashed by the DSI when PT was in power but the current government is looking into reviving it, following relevant evidence that came out in the Supreme Administrative Court assets confiscation against Thaksin. Since the asset concealment and terrorism cases are both terrorism cases, neither can be tried in absentia without the defendant at least being in court to hear the charges. The asset concealment case looked pretty clear cut to me from what has been made publicly available on it. However, Thaksin has successfully had in quashed once already and it is much less controversial and emotive than the terrorism case. If a Pheua Thai government tries to have the terrorism case quashed in future, it is easy to imagine that this would generate a far more emotional reaction to Bangkokians, who have seen their city held to ransom and then torched by Thaksin's supporters, than the sale of Shin Corp.

3) I don't think the government really wants him back, as he would a rallying point. I think they want to restrict his movements even further, hamper his PR efforts abroad and make it harder for him to get rid of charges against him by reverting to the 1997 constitution.

Aha, this explains why PTP did a 180 turnaround, they had first agreed to amend the current constitution, but then they got orders to go back to the 1997 version. The above explains why! Again, it's all about one man, not what's good for Thailand!

Exactly. The Pheua Thai MPs were happily bouncing along the constitutional amendment track with the government in the hope of getting banned politicians unbanned (except those convicted of or facing criminal charges) and ditching the provision to dissolve parties guilty of electoral fraud etc, when the phone rang and a voice told them in no uncertain terms they were out of order.

[animatic]

Sorry, the warrant is only written in Thai, not English, nor French, nor Montenegrin.

But it can be translated into English when used as a cause for extradition, and it is reported by english language newspapers so i should be recognized.

It already made top right photo, lead story on CNN.

Any government that knows of him has already flagged this.

By back channels they would likely let Thailand know they know his whereabouts

and ask how this might be dealt with to give the least

international embarrassment to the reluctant host country.

His world will start shrinking quite quickly, regardless of how much cash he has.

[MAJIC]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

You seem very sure Thaksin will get Political Asylum in the UK,perhaps you were not aware that the last time he left the UK his Visa was promptly withdrawn, and he has not been back since.

Dont expect the UK to let him in soon,entries to other Countries will also be denied very soon though,watch and see!

[janderton]

...

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

...

cut the word terrorism and replace it with the word "COUP"

[jdinasia]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

You seem very sure Thaksin will get Political Asylum in the UK,perhaps you were not aware that the last time he left the UK his Visa was promptly withdrawn, and he has not been back since.

Dont expect the UK to let him in soon,entries to other Countries will also be denied very soon though,watch and see!

After Thaksin's call-ins to an illegal rally that led to many deaths and arson and a supported case for terrorism charges ....... I doubt he'll be sitting down at a table at 10 Downing to discuss finances with the new PM:-)

After Montenegro and France and Dubai and HK have had to tell him to shut-up and stop making their contries a base for his political attacks on a legitimate government ... I kinda doubt he'll be welcome many places at all.

After Germany has said THEY are finished with him and he's not welcome back .....

After being publicly branded as a Terrorist .....

Yeah --- his options are getting fewer by the hour!

[Insight]

Has Thaksin actually condemned the actions of the red shirts after the leaders surrendered yet?

Might help make his terrorist denials a bit more believable...

[gemini81]

Sorry, the warrant is only written in Thai, not English, nor French, nor Montenegrin.

But it can be translated into English when used as a cause for extradition, and it is reported by english language newspapers so i should be recognized.

It already made top right photo, lead story on CNN.

Any government that knows of him has already flagged this.

By back channels they would likely let Thailand know they know his whereabouts

and ask how this might be dealt with to give the least

international embarrassment to the reluctant host country.

His world will start shrinking quite quickly, regardless of how much cash he has.

Indeed all they had to do was translate it, and yeah, according to the news, others have taken notice!

For those who object to the allegations, just check the definition of a terrorist, then you will see the direct relation to Thaksin. One can't deny his Red videos, which contain inciting violence, threats, and wanting to overthrow the gov't by any means (haha, and the veins bursting in his forehead and spit about to fly!) he's a hot head!

The other countries who may not extradite him 'cause of possible death penalties could charge him in their own country for his insistence on using that stage as his location in which to dabble in political violence.

[janderton]

Nobody cares!!!!!! Thailand has a terrible reputation for human rights and lies!! He can go anywhere and everywhere! The Western world love an underdog fighting against an oppressive junta!

There are quite a few places where he couldn't go BEFORE today. Today will add significantly to the list. The western world know there is no "Junta" here and all the governments recognize the government of Thailand. What Western countries HATE are corrupt leaders and since Thaksin is already convicted of corruption and now a wanted terrorist ...... Poof ..... there goes those shopping trips to Louis Vuitton in Paris.

convicted by courts put there by the same elite that overthrown him with a coup....(actually two)

[Crushdepth]

cut the word terrorism and replace it with the word "COUP"

As I recall, nobody got hurt in the coup and people were giving soldiers flowers in the street. The yellow shirts didn't hurt anyone in their protest either. How many people have died or been maimed at the hands of the redshirts? How many grenade attacks and shootings?

The comparison of the coup to terrorism is ridiculous, particularly since the coup was partly conducted to avoid violence.

[otherstuff1957]

Actually, I don't think that the terrorism charge is going to make him any more extraditable than he was before. As long as he invests in countries like Dubai, Uganda, Fiji, etc., he will be welcomed there. As for Europe, he is obviously traveling freely there with his Montenegrin passport (remember his shopping trip in Paris and rumors of a subsequent trip to London?). Most European countries will not extradite anyone who faces a potential death sentence.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the above reasons will let him continue to travel freely, though he might have trouble staying anywhere for a prolonged period.

Edited May 25, 2010 by otherstuff1957

[KKvampire]

So interesting to hear on BBC Radio news a Mr Bob Amsterdam an American, USA, one of Thaksins Lawyers for English speaking propoganda purposes talking about how dreadful the current government is and that his "boss" is the most popular Politician in Thailand, also the Red shirts were only ever interested in bringing democracy to Thailand.

The most riddled with innaccurate rubbish yet to be heard. Although the funniest part was about Thaksin "so popular in thailand" .

He can come back any time he wants to see the populist bouquets reign upon him.

Edited May 25, 2010 by KKvampire

[midas]

Your 1st statement is clearly libelous. I would not like to try to defend it in a Thai court.

Excuse me for my cynical perspective but how much experience of the so called judicial system in Thailand do you have ?

I sat through four days of Court involving a farang Plaintiff suing a Thai property developer for a substantial sum of money.

The Plaintiff had meticulous records and what anyone who heard the facts would say an indisputable case to recover money.

But it didn’t stop the Thai judge eventually leading us into a small side room and recommending the plaintiff

settle the matter because the defendant was known “ to be a dangerous person if crossed “ .( the Judges words )

Come to your own conclusions

[gemini81]

Nobody cares!!!!!! Thailand has a terrible reputation for human rights and lies!! He can go anywhere and everywhere! The Western world love an underdog fighting against an oppressive junta!

There are quite a few places where he couldn't go BEFORE today. Today will add significantly to the list. The western world know there is no "Junta" here and all the governments recognize the government of Thailand. What Western countries HATE are corrupt leaders and since Thaksin is already convicted of corruption and now a wanted terrorist ...... Poof ..... there goes those shopping trips to Louis Vuitton in Paris.

convicted by courts put there by the same elite that overthrown him with a coup....(actually two)

and why did they overthrown him? I think you know Genius! only a murderer and a cheater and a crook! Thats all right?

[dominique355]

Kasit should instruct the Foreign Ministry to break relation with France, if the French does not deliver Thaksin to Thailand within 24 hours.

France is harboring a known Thai Fugitives and International Terrorist ON PURPOSE. DSI and CRES can confirm these.

Right! And if they don't comply, Thailand will send its aircraft carrier and the whole Royal Thai Navy and attack France! Go get these frogs!

[gemini81]

So interesting to hear on BBC Radio news a Mr Bob Amsterdam an American, USA, one of Thaksins Lawyers for English speaking propoganda purposes talking about how dreadful the current government is and that his "boss" is the most popular Politician in Thailand, also the Red shirts were only ever interested in bringing democracy to Thailand.

The most riddled with innaccurate rubbish yet to be heard. Although the funniest part was about Thaksin "so popular in thailand" .

He can come back any time he wants to see the populist bouquets reign upon him.

Lawyers = Issan whores

Pay them enough and they'll do anything you ask.

nice analogy! Guess we've had similar experiences. They'll sell their souls for the dough.

[TokyoT]

A few things that come to mind when I read about the terrorism charges:

1) This will make it easier for Thailand to get help outside of Thailand to track and possible freeze, and maybe even seize Thaksins assests/ bank accounts.

2) I bet there is more than one Thai kicking themselves for rejecting the US request for extradition of Viktor Bout.

3) Seems that back in Dec of '09 Thailand gave the US a hand by seizing a shipment of missiles/weapons from North Korea - maybe Thailand will now expect the US to step up to the plate and aid Thailand in getting assistance from the rest of the international community and tracking down their "terrorists". Thailand might also be able to use this to get some help out of Israel considering the weapons were bound for Hamas and/or Hizbulla.....

[sjjmmi]

Kasit should instruct the Foreign Ministry to break relation with France, if the French does not deliver Thaksin to Thailand within 24 hours.

France is harboring a known Thai Fugitives and International Terrorist ON PURPOSE. DSI and CRES can confirm these.

Why not the whole world

[ETatBKK]

this guy still making annoying and irresponsible noises, on the payroll of Mr T.

while Mr T becomes a terrorist, what would be the possible illegal responsibilities for whose supporting a terrorist ?

[Scott]

Posts have been deleted. Please refer to current and former politicians by their proper names.

Unnecessarily racist and vulgar post was removed as well.

Please exercise care in your posts.

[dominique355]

Terrorist charges or not. That's just words. Every country, which would (hypothetically) arrest Thaksin will examine the facts the Thai prosecutor has collected and decide whether or not - under the national laws - these facts are sufficient to extradite Thaksin. And for this, they will not apply Thai law, but their own national laws and practice. A further question to deal with by the country arresting Thaksin is whether or not Thaksin will have a fair trial. Some countries will not extradite if the capital punishment would be applied by Thailand.

So I am not sure if these so-called Terrorist charges are really any progress in finally bringing Thaksin to a court.

[roykeanz]

 

They are just trying to calm the squeeky nerves that have raised by their reporting of the conflict.

I like this quote from the lawyer..

"The military-backed Abhisit regime has perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation," said attorney Robert Amsterdam.

How does it violate law Mr. Dam?

Doesn't Dam's dam_n statement describe Thaksin?!! ... A piece of cr*p "that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation"!!  

 

Edited May 25, 2010 by roykeanz

[otherstuff1957]

So interesting to hear on BBC Radio news a Mr Bob Amsterdam an American, USA, one of Thaksins Lawyers for English speaking propoganda purposes talking about how dreadful the current government is and that his "boss" is the most popular Politician in Thailand, also the Red shirts were only ever interested in bringing democracy to Thailand.

The most riddled with innaccurate rubbish yet to be heard. Although the funniest part was about Thaksin "so popular in thailand" .

He can come back any time he wants to see the populist bouquets reign upon him.

He's Canadian, you can't blame the US for this particular ambulance chaser.

PS: Here's a wonderful line from his wiki entry:

"Amsterdam was admitted to the Canadian Bar in 1980 and he is also admitted as a solicitor in London, United Kingdom. He has fraudulently claimed to be a member of the New York Bar Association"

According to this article, he is more of a PR guy than a real lawyer:

Q-Magazine article