A Premeditated Plan To Burn Bangkok

[chantorn]

The reds were assisted by snipers and black-clad extremists with military training. This "Black Army" would hit the security forces from behind the lines.

Was the video clip below already discussed at the board? Sorry if yes, but was an explanation/ conclusion found what happen there?

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, a white shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

So, can I conclude as follows:

If Black: belong to Red

If White: belong to Army?

[chantorn]

Not according to the Australian Embassy; they said he tends toward gross exaggeration.

Are you saying that the Thai government is feeding grossly exaggerated information

Why would the Thai government do that? I see no reason other that to tell the truth to the Thai people.

FYI, PRD is not ASTV or PTV.

[ETatBKK]

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

[ozzieman05]

Justice must not only be done but seem to be done

The pawns given fines with suspended sentences, this will make them think twice next time, and sends a message to Thai's that breaking the law faces consequences

The leader must be punished and get jail time, but more important pay resitution to those that suffered under their illegal occupation

any one found guilty of causing the fires or being involved in participation, must have the book thrown at them and pay dearly

The past is past the present is now, but we need to make an example so that this is not part of Tailand future

After all a few guilty only need suffer to make Thailand million's a safe place to live again, and tourist feel safe to return

[Grower]

Not according to the Australian Embassy; they said he tends toward gross exaggeration.

Are you saying that the Thai government is feeding grossly exaggerated information

Why would the Thai government do that? I see no reason other that to tell the truth to the Thai people.

FYI, PRD is not ASTV or PTV.

No, not at all; I'm telling what the Australian Embassy said. No more, no less.

[chantorn]

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

Could it be the men in WHITE that does the arson? and shooting in the Temple? They are not with the Army, just roam with them.

[jdinasia]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Your post completely evades the warnings stated in advance (warnings to the government!) that stood as orders to the red shirt mob. They heard Nattuwut and they heard Arisaman. They heard Veera calling on them to burn down the counter corruption agency. They heard over and over the violent rhetoric from the leaders. They chose to stay after hearing calls for violence over and over from their leaders.

It is a kindness on the part of many people to say that they were forced into staying by the redshirt guards, or the possible repurcussions they would suffer if they returned home without redshirt approval. It is a kindness on the part of many that say they couldn't leave because they had to surrender their ID's to get paid. If they were NOT there 100% of their own free will then they get to deny involvement in premeditated terrorism.

If, on the other hand, they were there, like the reds on this forum say, voluntarily in all ways then they are ALL guilty of insurrection and supporting domestic terrorism on the behalf of Thaksin.

Time for the reds on the board to make a stand

[chantorn]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Your post completely evades the warnings stated in advance (warnings to the government!) that stood as orders to the red shirt mob. They heard Nattuwut and they heard Arisaman. They heard Veera calling on them to burn down the counter corruption agency. They heard over and over the violent rhetoric from the leaders. They chose to stay after hearing calls for violence over and over from their leaders.

It is a kindness on the part of many people to say that they were forced into staying by the redshirt guards, or the possible repurcussions they would suffer if they returned home without redshirt approval. It is a kindness on the part of many that say they couldn't leave because they had to surrender their ID's to get paid. If they were NOT there 100% of their own free will then they get to deny involvement in premeditated terrorism.

If, on the other hand, they were there, like the reds on this forum say, voluntarily in all ways then they are ALL guilty of insurrection and supporting domestic terrorism on the behalf of Thaksin.

Time for the reds on the board to make a stand

I also heard a Brit calling on them to burn down and loot Central Plaza. I also heard an Oz Sniper on stage figting with the Red

So this 2 don't count, because they are farangs.

[Motoon]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

[chantorn]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Long process? No.

Mark say by September, everyone in Thailand will be a happy big family.

Election will be held 14-Nov-2010.

[landofthefree]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Long process? No.

Mark say by September, everyone in Thailand will be a happy big family.

Election will be held 14-Nov-2010.

[whybother]

Long process? No.

Mark say by September, everyone in Thailand will be a happy big family.

Election will be held 14-Nov-2010.

Where has he said that? After the reds rejected the offer, I think that was taken off the table.

It wouldn't surprise me if an election was held in December or early next year, but (IMO) it definitely won't be held in November.

Edited May 26, 2010 by whybother

[Insight]

I sense a new level of urgency in some posters

Not that they support Thaksin or anything like that

[Motoon]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Long process? No.

Mark say by September, everyone in Thailand will be a happy big family.

Election will be held 14-Nov-2010.

Yeah, I know he pobably did. Unfortunately we can not all float on a pink cloud... As for you, you seem quite content with your sarcasm these days... happy for you too

[bkksteviejai]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Wish my Thai reading / comprehension was better. I'd be interested in the Thai forums on this subject......or is it just loads of Thais bickering instead of farangs on TV?

[clausewitz]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130095.html

The red shirts have become a real peril in this land. They are a serious threat to national security, with or without Thaksin being around to finance their future destructive campaigns. Such horrible scenarios could be prevented if the ringleaders and their network of extremist supporters are uprooted once and for all.

The violence and tragedy - with up to 100 dead and several hundreds injured - captured headlines around the world, and news networks had a field day, some with fair reporting. However, a few major news organisations showed how they could be biased to make the country's administration look much worse than in reality.

The US saw 9/11, and the bringing down of the World Trade Centre. We just suffered May 19, with the CentralWorld complex, earlier named the World Trade Centre, going up in smoke. A "ground zero" on a smaller scale.

The US has an enemy by the name of Bin Laden, who has eluded capture for years. We have an enemy named Thaksin Shinawatra who deserves the title of public enemy number one, and has already been branded a terrorist by the government. .

The Americans have seen the Black Panthers and other urban terrorists, freak groups led by the likes of Jim Jones, and violent incidents like Waco. We have the red shirts, who are mean and lethal, comprising thugs, thieves, looters, assassins, saboteurs, vandals and charlatans campaigning for "democracy" on Thaksin's payroll.

America had an excellent newscaster named Dan Rather, but now we have the new-rich Dan Rivers of CNN, who lives here and gives Thailand a bad name it does not deserve.

I thought this was a balanced article. Good he points out how CNNs Dan Rivers was on the take ('new-rich').

[mrtoad]

Well, that moron Savage and an Aussie have been arrested and are now in jail. Made my day.

Som nam nah!

Not just a crazy guy. The Australian guy is a trained cold blooded killer / sniper. Said the Thai government.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255305250040

The guys is a PD with delusions of grandeur. Even the Aussie Embassy has been quick to point that out.

[roykeanz]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130095.html

(  snip ....)

America had an excellent newscaster named Dan Rather, but now we have the new-rich Dan Rivers of CNN, who lives here and gives Thailand a bad name it does not deserve.

I thought this was a balanced article. Good he points out how CNNs Dan Rivers was on the take ('new-rich').

Yap. The truth really had many Red Rivers to cross during the past 2 months or so! 

Even by the insanely low so-called "standards" of Crap Nefarious News, the guy's a total f-----g joke! 

[lannarebirth]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Your post completely evades the warnings stated in advance (warnings to the government!) that stood as orders to the red shirt mob. They heard Nattuwut and they heard Arisaman. They heard Veera calling on them to burn down the counter corruption agency. They heard over and over the violent rhetoric from the leaders. They chose to stay after hearing calls for violence over and over from their leaders.

It is a kindness on the part of many people to say that they were forced into staying by the redshirt guards, or the possible repurcussions they would suffer if they returned home without redshirt approval. It is a kindness on the part of many that say they couldn't leave because they had to surrender their ID's to get paid. If they were NOT there 100% of their own free will then they get to deny involvement in premeditated terrorism.

If, on the other hand, they were there, like the reds on this forum say, voluntarily in all ways then they are ALL guilty of insurrection and supporting domestic terrorism on the behalf of Thaksin.

Time for the reds on the board to make a stand

I also heard a Brit calling on them to burn down and loot Central Plaza. I also heard an Oz Sniper on stage figting with the Red

So this 2 don't count, because they are farangs.

You're going to have to disappear for more than a week to have any chance of spinning this disaster back your way.

[lannarebirth]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Long process? No.

Mark say by September, everyone in Thailand will be a happy big family.

Election will be held 14-Nov-2010.

I've decided that there's no point discussing anything with someone that doesn't care how much credibility they have or how much they embarass themself. Ignored.

[animatic]

Premeditated by who - my money is on Thaksin

seconded, call him ..

..."The Coach"..

Team owner.

Team coaches on stage with cheerleaders, telling the massed fans how to think.

Then the players on the field in a game of 3D chess, but with warped rules.

With shadows and cache holes not found in a typical game of chess.

The stadium appropriated from the city without asking,

and then destroyed when the team lost the big game.

Now we await the bucket of ice dumped on the coaches,

and the team owner losing his control of the squad

and going into unlivable control less obscurity.

[brahmburgers]

Well, that moron Savage and an Aussie have been arrested and are now in jail. Made my day.

Glad I'm not stuck in jail with those two being the only other farang. The conversational options would drive me nuts.

[yoshiwara]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it?  A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not.  If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say?  They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line red supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were only 1%.

A stone lie.

[yoshiwara]

I dont deny this could be true but unfortunately we never get to hear the reds point of view..so its always one sided information.

You don't invite a man for his opinion when he is trying to burn down your city.

Never mind you don't deny.

You can't deny.

Mr One Side.

[MikeyIdea]

Well, that moron Savage and an Aussie have been arrested and are now in jail. Made my day.

Glad I'm not stuck in jail with those two being the only other farang. The conversational options would drive me nuts.

Fell off the chair reading that one

[animatic]

Justice must not only be done but seem to be done

The pawns given fines with suspended sentences, this will make them think twice next time, and sends a message to Thai's that breaking the law faces consequences

The leader must be punished and get jail time, but more important pay resitution to those that suffered under their illegal occupation

any one found guilty of causing the fires or being involved in participation, must have the book thrown at them and pay dearly

The past is past the present is now, but we need to make an example so that this is not part of Tailand future

After all a few guilty only need suffer to make Thailand million's a safe place to live again, and tourist feel safe to return

I believe the quote is: "Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done."

Gordon Hewart, Ist Viscount

Edited May 26, 2010 by animatic

[yoshiwara]

Premeditated by Thaksin and Thaksin alone.

Choking on your own comments now.

[Zolt]

Thanong has a track record of opting into some pretty wild conspiracy theories, but in this article I agree with him on most points.

[Ulysses G.]

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

Could it be the men in WHITE that does the arson? and shooting in the Temple? They are not with the Army, just roam with them.

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

[animatic]

There are a large number of assumptions in this article, which, although possible, are really not verifiable. The fact that central world was burnt down to "dispose" of a large stock of weapons for instance. Who is the "intelligence source" who provided this information to the writer of this article? Is there physical evidence to support this claim?

If I'm not wrong only 1 dead body was found in Central World as well, on a higher floor, not in the basement, probably trying to take something which was not his to begin with. There was mention of 10 bodies early on in the investigation, but this was later denied by all who were actually involved in the inspection of the building.

He has also "heard" that police smuggled militants out of Lumpini park the night before the crackdown. Again, I have not read or seen this in other media and, while perhaps true, it cannot be verified and is now only used as another statement to fuel the fire of hatred against the reds.

While I realize that this is an opinion piece, nobody benefits from wild claims like this. As pointed out earlier, those who already believe this to be true will only be further strengthened in their opinions, whereas supporters of the reds will as usual deny all these claims. The majority who is in the middle will probably read this for what it is, an opinion with little evidence to prove the points being made. Yet it's those minorities that do not need to be convinced any further, that pose the biggest threat to the stability of Thailand right now. Extreme opinions can easily lead to extreme behavior as we have seen during the last few months in Thailand, and in the rest of the world throughout the years. If we would be willing to look at the facts only, and to not try to portray our anger-fueled opinions as facts, Thailand would be able to recover, and indeed, improve the plight of its people, ALL the people, much faster.

Post 1,

and spoken like a lawyer working for a PR firm.

Ooh, we don't know, reasonable doubt, can't be real, only rumor.

Welcome instant expert.

We never can have enough here to sway our thinking can we?