True Visions

[loong]

Hi,

these last few weeks it seems that a few clouds appear and I get a low signal. I hear some thunder in the distance and No signal.

Other times it can be really p##sing down and I get perfect reception.

I've had True Visions for about 18 months now and hardly had any signal problems last year in the rainy season.

Does anyone know if this can be caused by the dish moving slightly?

Do people normally get lots of interruptions to the signal during bad weather?

Thanks

[gotlost]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

[monty]

Yup,

Dish slightly moved by strong wind.

Also common are some leaves from trees hanging over the dish. Remember, although it looks like the dish is aimed somewhere between the horizon and straight up, practically it is looking virtually straight up (offset dish), so that's where no tree leaves are supposed to be.

And a third possibility is the cabling. Especially at the connection at the LNB (the receiver head on the dish). It's taped of with special waterproof tape, but over the years humidity can seep in giving signal problems...

[loong]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

I am wondering if it is normal because last year during the rainy season I hardly ever lost the signal. I'm losing it now when it gets a bit cloudy! What is strange is that it is not consistant.

Yesterday some clouds moved overhead and "Low signal" flashed up on the screen. After about 5 minutes "No signal" and after another 5 minutes, I heard thunder. After "No Signal" for about 45 minutes, It came back while it was absolutely chucking down with rain. It rained heavily for about 3 hours and I had a signal all the time!!??

[loong]

Yup,

Dish slightly moved by strong wind.

Also common are some leaves from trees hanging over the dish. Remember, although it looks like the dish is aimed somewhere between the horizon and straight up, practically it is looking virtually straight up (offset dish), so that's where no tree leaves are supposed to be.

And a third possibility is the cabling. Especially at the connection at the LNB (the receiver head on the dish). It's taped of with special waterproof tape, but over the years humidity can seep in giving signal problems...

We did have an incredible storm a while back, very high winds. My CAT CDMA antenna was struck by lightening. I don't know if the same strike could have damaged the LNB? My computer and modem was fried but no damage to the satellite box or TV.

The dish is on the roof and there are no trees or anything obstructing its view of the sky.

I just wanted to know as much as possible as I expect to be fobbed off when I go into the True office to complain.

Thanks

[astral]

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) from the lightning strike may well have damaged the lnb.

Get TRUE to come and check out the alignment and the LNB.

[Max4243]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

The satellite dish used by True Visions is a small compact dish and can be easily installed, cheap and less space needed. This small dish used has a drawback when there is a storm or starting to rain and signal can be blocked for a short while, but depend on the weather condition, it could be longer. In order to solve this problem, you have to install a huge satellite dish, like the one used in commercial buildings (big black dish). This will reduce the interruption, but not a total solution. True Visions small satellite dish used can get very good picture during normal weather condition without having to use a big satelite dish, which is costly and using too much space.

Solar flares is another problem facing this small dish, but this interruption of signal is less problematic than the bad raining weather.

So looks like there is no other solution as I am sure True Visions will not be using the big satellite dish for us subscribers. Hope that the weather is good when we all will be watching the coming world cup football.

[musiclover]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

The satellite dish used by True Visions is a small compact dish and can be easily installed, cheap and less space needed. This small dish used has a drawback when there is a storm or starting to rain and signal can be blocked for a short while, but depend on the weather condition, it could be longer. In order to solve this problem, you have to install a huge satellite dish, like the one used in commercial buildings (big black dish). This will reduce the interruption, but not a total solution. True Visions small satellite dish used can get very good picture during normal weather condition without having to use a big satelite dish, which is costly and using too much space.

Solar flares is another problem facing this small dish, but this interruption of signal is less problematic than the bad raining weather.

So looks like there is no other solution as I am sure True Visions will not be using the big satellite dish for us subscribers. Hope that the weather is good when we all will be watching the coming world cup football.

Are you referring to a solid dish for kuBand? ie Not a mesh dish? If so, where can you get such a dish and what type or size do you recommend? Actually thia is for Astro but I believe thr principle is the same as both on ku band?

[Max4243]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

I am wondering if it is normal because last year during the rainy season I hardly ever lost the signal. I'm losing it now when it gets a bit cloudy! What is strange is that it is not consistant.

Yesterday some clouds moved overhead and "Low signal" flashed up on the screen. After about 5 minutes "No signal" and after another 5 minutes, I heard thunder. After "No Signal" for about 45 minutes, It came back while it was absolutely chucking down with rain. It rained heavily for about 3 hours and I had a signal all the time!!??

Because of the small receiving dish used by True Visions, thick clouds will cause interruption to receiving the signal. Once the clouds are cleared or not so thick, you will receive the signal back. Heavy rains is not the main cause of loss of signal. In fact it helps to clear the clouds, which is the main problem. As I mentioned in my previous post, you need a big black dish ( mesh or not mesh dish) to solve this problem, but not totally. This big black receiving dish is bulky and costly and that is the reason why True Visions is not using this. You may want to check out other provider that are using this type of big black dish (Kuband), but I am sure it will cost more than subscribing to True Visions.

Cheers

[loong]

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) from the lightning strike may well have damaged the lnb.

Get TRUE to come and check out the alignment and the LNB.

EMP?

Is this similar or the same as Induced current?

Because the roof structure is metal and the internet antenna is attached to this ( as is the satellite dish) and the roof structure is connected to the rebar in the uprights, most of the power from the lightening strike went to earth. There was no obvious visual damage to the cable or the computer set-up, but enough current went through to destroy it

The mains RCD did trip at the time.

Could current be induced in the coax and damage the LNB without causing any damage to the set top box and TV?

Thanks for all the replies, once again I'm impressed by the knowledge of many people.

If this problem has been caused by the lightening strike, then it is not really True Visions fault and I will be prepared to pay a sweetener to get a technician out if necessary.

[selftaopath]

Yup,

Dish slightly moved by strong wind.

Also common are some leaves from trees hanging over the dish. Remember, although it looks like the dish is aimed somewhere between the horizon and straight up, practically it is looking virtually straight up (offset dish), so that's where no tree leaves are supposed to be.

And a third possibility is the cabling. Especially at the connection at the LNB (the receiver head on the dish). It's taped of with special waterproof tape, but over the years humidity can seep in giving signal problems...

My signal gets lost often; rainy, sunny, breezy, cloudy lol. Hard for me to understand.

[loong]

My signal gets lost often; rainy, sunny, breezy, cloudy lol. Hard for me to understand.

And why do you put up with it?

Is it just because you expect and accept poor customer service in Thailand?

The last problem that I had with True Visions was only resolved after I started to lose it, frustrated with the total lack of interest.

I started this topic because I want to go and complain armed with as much info as possible. This time I want to stay calm as possible and get somewhere without resorting to raising my voice and getting angry.

[Pib]

This is normal with any satellite receiver. I also have True Visions and during a storm it will go out also during high solar flares.

The satellite dish used by True Visions is a small compact dish and can be easily installed, cheap and less space needed. This small dish used has a drawback when there is a storm or starting to rain and signal can be blocked for a short while, but depend on the weather condition, it could be longer. In order to solve this problem, you have to install a huge satellite dish, like the one used in commercial buildings (big black dish). This will reduce the interruption, but not a total solution. True Visions small satellite dish used can get very good picture during normal weather condition without having to use a big satellite dish, which is costly and using too much space.

Solar flares is another problem facing this small dish, but this interruption of signal is less problematic than the bad raining weather.

So looks like there is no other solution as I am sure True Visions will not be using the big satellite dish for us subscribers. Hope that the weather is good when we all will be watching the coming world cup football.

As more FYI for the OP, the standard 75cm TrueVisions solid dish provides a 38db KU band power gain; a 6 ft C Band mesh dish provides approx a 45db KU band power gain (and a 36db C Band power gain). While a 7db power gain increase is good, as mentioned above it won't solve all a person's bad weather reception problems. A small misalignment on the TrueVisions dish can easily cause a 7 db loss, just as objects in front of the dish, etc.

And since the KU band dishes are parabola in shape versus round they can fool a person regarding their correct alignment. Here in Thailand for a correctly oriented TrueVisions dish "elevation-wise" is actually looking up at a 60 degrees angle although visually it physically looks like it's pointing up at approx 45 degrees.. Always start off my using/checking the alignment marker on the dish assembly for a 60 degrees setting before making very slight manual adjustments to peak out the signal. And azimuth-wise, the dish needs to be looking 240 degrees. You can use the signal level menu selection on your TrueVisions set top box as a power meter...peak for the "lowest" negative DB reading. That is, a -30db/dbm reading is a higher power level than a -31db/dbm reading. Just do very small incremental up/down, left/right adjustments of your dish for the highest power level...and then tighten down the adjustments bolts/nuts.

Also, let's not forget that the "sending/uplink" station (here in the Bangkok Metropolitan Area I think) to the satellite can also be causing the problem sometimes as it may be raining big time/super cloudy at the uplink station and clear at your location...if there is too much of a uplink power attenuation due to weather, the satellite retransmission can't compensate power-wise and it ends up transmitting down to earth a lower power level. On numerous occasions when I lose the TrueVisions signal or start getting a low signal indication I've looked at the area of sky my TrueVisions is pointing to and the dark clouds have not even reached that point in the sky yet, but the sky over towards the uplink station is black as black can get. And if it's raining at both the uplink location and your location, then you have a greater chance of losing the signal. And just because it's not raining yet, the rain clouds above you are just full of water/moisture (which attenuates the TrueVisions KU band signal) just waiting for the right cloud temperature to start dumping the water on you. After those clouds start dumping their water it can actually make it easier for the KU band signal to get through to your dish.

Your LNB may also have seen its better days (but if it's providing any signal it's probably still OK), a corroded/bad cable connection somewhere, etc. KU Band reception can be frustrating as it always seems in starts raining when the show you want to watch is coming on. Cheers.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Pib

[Max4243]

My signal gets lost often; rainy, sunny, breezy, cloudy lol. Hard for me to understand.

And why do you put up with it?

Is it just because you expect and accept poor customer service in Thailand?

The last problem that I had with True Visions was only resolved after I started to lose it, frustrated with the total lack of interest.

I started this topic because I want to go and complain armed with as much info as possible. This time I want to stay calm as possible and get somewhere without resorting to raising my voice and getting angry.

I too have various problem with True Visions, be it lost signals or matters related with their service. I would email their customer service and would have got a reply quite fast and got the matter resolved. The problem with lost signals due to thick clouds and sun flares could not be solved by True Visions as they are providing too small a receiving dish for economic reasons. (Wish they could provide a bigger receiving dish). The only solution is to change to a provider that can provide a bigger receiving dish, but this option could cause you more. Can't blame you for getting angry and frustrated with True Visions when the service is bad, but sometime keeping cool could help to get the problem solved faster.

Good Luck with your discussion with True Visions and Cheers!

[Pib]

To the OP, you are probaby going to hear the term "rainfade" when talking to TrueVisions which means when it rains/is very cloudy you may lose the signal. Rainfade is real world so don't think TrueVisions is pulling your chain when they tell you that. Get them out to look at your system if you feel it has developed a reception problem. Wishing you good luck also, but you may have just been lucky rain-wise/reception-wise over the past year.

[nonthaburial]

I have a non true decoder but using the true dish and LNb. Have no problems what so ever so I believe that the true decoder is low standard

[astral]

Are you referring to a solid dish for kuBand? ie Not a mesh dish? If so, where can you get such a dish and what type or size do you recommend? Actually thia is for Astro but I believe thr principle is the same as both on ku band?

True fits 70cm solid dishes.

Personally I would go for 1m to try and minimise rain fade,

difficult in the tropics are the rain drops are large, and similar in size to the wave length of Ku band 11-12Ghz.

That is also why mesh dishes are not optimal.

[Pib]

The TrueVisions signal can be received on a KU band only dish (the red or gray TrueVisons/UBC dish is 75cm in size) or a C Band dish of various sizes from around 5 ft to 12 ft which can receive C band or KU band signals. All you need is the proper KU LNB mounted on the dish and a receiver/set top box which can receive/decode TrueVisions signals.

[richardt1808]

Hi,

The rainfade problem is more pronounced in Thailand due to the low angle of the satellite. In most other countries the line of sight to satellite is a lot closer to vertical, but due to the vast array of Thaicom's other cutomers, the satellite is not positioned over Thailand but at some other more economical point. This means that the signal has a much longer path to travel en route to your dish and is hence more prone to rainfade, trees, birds and other things which may block the signal path.

[Prasert]

Hi,

The rainfade problem is more pronounced in Thailand due to the low angle of the satellite. In most other countries the line of sight to satellite is a lot closer to vertical, but due to the vast array of Thaicom's other cutomers, the satellite is not positioned over Thailand but at some other more economical point. This means that the signal has a much longer path to travel en route to your dish and is hence more prone to rainfade, trees, birds and other things which may block the signal path.

Is that so? Thaicom2/5 is 36409km above my house, at a 62.5 degree angle.

Compare that to watching the Astra satellite from Amsterdam: 38825km and 27.7 degree angle.

[Pib]

Hi,

The rainfade problem is more pronounced in Thailand due to the low angle of the satellite. In most other countries the line of sight to satellite is a lot closer to vertical, but due to the vast array of Thaicom's other cutomers, the satellite is not positioned over Thailand but at some other more economical point. This means that the signal has a much longer path to travel en route to your dish and is hence more prone to rainfade, trees, birds and other things which may block the signal path.

Is that so? Thaicom2/5 is 36409km above my house, at a 62.5 degree angle.

Compare that to watching the Astra satellite from Amsterdam: 38825km and 27.7 degree angle.

Yea, I agree. As satellite look angles, the Thaicom satellite offers a high look angle for Thailand...it ain't straight up but it still a high look angle. I don't think the Thaicom adds any signficant signal reduction issue due to look angle. It's when you are looking for a satellite on the horizon/a low look angle, kinda like your Astra satellite example, that you are looking through a lot more atmosphere, and maybe even Earth-based obstructions, which causes signal loss/disruption.

[astral]

I think you are getting muddled here.

The 62.5 degree for Thaicom and 27.7 degree for Astra is the longitude where the satellite is locate.

Not the angle of the dish.....................

Tropical rain is heavier than in the higher latitudes.

This means the drops are larger, closer to the wavelength of the Ku band signal,

and therefore cause more interference.

[Pib]

I think you are getting muddled here.

The 62.5 degree for Thaicom and 27.7 degree for Astra is the longitude where the satellite is locate.

Not the angle of the dish.....................

Tropical rain is heavier than in the higher latitudes.

This means the drops are larger, closer to the wavelength of the Ku band signal,

and therefore cause more interference.

No, incorrrect. The Thaicom satellite is located at a stationary point 78.5 degrees East longitude, which is over the Indian Ocean about halfway between Thailand and Africa. The 62.5 degrees is the dish "elevation" angle (a.k.a., look angle) in Thailand (varies very slightly depending on your exact location in Thailand) you must point your dish upwards. And azimuth-wise it's approx 240 degrees. Now if you had your C Band dish on a boat in the middle of the Indian Ocean you would have to point the dish pretty much straight up or an elevation angle of approx 90 degrees. See attached lyngsat.com link for more info.

http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/thai2.html

And it's a good thing a C Band dish is mesh; otherwise, in the middle of the Indian Ocean it would just fill up with rainwater since it's pointing straight up and we would lose all reception even after it stopped raining--and that would be real rainfade.

[ballbreaker]

And why do you put up with it?

Is it just because you expect and accept poor customer service in Thailand?

The last problem that I had with True Visions was only resolved after I started to lose it, frustrated with the total lack of interest.

I started this topic because I want to go and complain armed with as much info as possible. This time I want to stay calm as possible and get somewhere without resorting to raising my voice and getting angry.

I hate poor service also but its much better for your stress levels if you check dish pointing yourself. One of the receiver menu's allows you to display signal level which can be used to align dish. Just make sure you put scribe marks on dish mount before you loosen bolts so can get back to original starting point if needed. I would do one axis at a time and suggest you start with azimuth because high wind will most likely move this axis. Very small movements in either direction will cause the signal dBm level to change. Remember to peak level so it is less negative (-26 dBm is better (higher signal level) than -29 dBm).

[Pib]

Agree with the dish alignment. Fortunately, I can easily get to my TrueVisions dish and did a dish realignment/peaking back in Jan. Below is a partial quote from one of my Jan 10 ThaiVisa posts regarding the realignment.. Unfortunately, rainy season is now here and I still get rainfade with Truevisions but not as bad/often before my dish treaking.

Partial Quote:

Now, I'm hoping that my recent TrueVisions KU band dish realignment/peaking last week may reduce the KU band downtime. Although TrueVisions technicians originally installed my KU dish, my "personal" realignment/peaking last week showed the antenna was off 5 degrees in azimuth (optimum in my location for Thaicom 2/5 is 240 degrees and the antenna was at around 235 degrees according to my compass readings), off a few degrees in inclination, and off just a little in LNB adjustment. By monitoring the signal level on my setup box/IRD, peaking the azimuth gave me a 6db gain (and 5 degrees is only a very slight adjustment of the dish), peaking the inclination gave another 2 db gain, and adjusting the LNB forward/backward location in it's holder gave another 1 db gain (and adjusting the skew a little from the recommend 4:30 (or 57 degreees) position made no differnce). Summary: 9db total gain from just optimizing my KU band antenna/LNB alignment, with most of that gain coming from the azimuth alignment. And with these adjustments the signal reaching my set top boxes/IRD's is at the high end power level recommend for the boxes (i.e., approx a -25dbm input level for my boxes). Now, I just need to wait for the rainy season to see if this 9db gain/antenna alignment reduces/eliminates my KU band signal loss using the TrueVisions dish. I've even taken out the 20db in-line amp from the dish/LNB, but can quickly reinstall if that 20db gain makes any real difference during a rainstorm. I'm not sure the amp makes any real difference when the LNB output drops below a certain level with reduced reception like cause during rain/heavy clouds (I know for sure the amp wasn't preventing total signal loss during rain before the dish realignment)....zero LNB output to an in-line amp just results in zero signal output plus more noise.

End Quote

[Pib]

Speaking of TrueVisions rainfade, it's 6:40pm and here in western Bangkok the clouds are low and very black...getting ready to possibly rain...but it ain't raining yet. And my Truevisions signal has went bye-bye (ie., getting Low Signal, Search for Signal msgs). No problem just switched to C Band so the wife won't miss her nightly Ch 7 soap shows.

[loong]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I thought that I'd better check the signal strength before messing around with the dish myself.

Today is a bit overcast, but no rain, and checking the signal strength on the menu, I see

Locked 255

-33 dBm

I will check again when clear skies to compare. What should I expect, around -26 ?

[ballbreaker]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I thought that I'd better check the signal strength before messing around with the dish myself.

Today is a bit overcast, but no rain, and checking the signal strength on the menu, I see

Locked 255

-33 dBm

I will check again when clear skies to compare. What should I expect, around -26 ?

Currently overcast north of Korat and mine changing between -27 and -28 dBm. I usually have -26 with clear sky.

[loong]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I thought that I'd better check the signal strength before messing around with the dish myself.

Today is a bit overcast, but no rain, and checking the signal strength on the menu, I see

Locked 255

-33 dBm

I will check again when clear skies to compare. What should I expect, around -26 ?

Currently overcast north of Korat and mine changing between -27 and -28 dBm. I usually have -26 with clear sky.

Thanks ballbreaker,

It's stayed overcast here all morning, occasional filtered sun, but I have checked a few times and always -33 dBm

I'm 25Km North of Khon Kaen.

It does seem that my signal is weaker than it should be.

[astral]

Speaking of TrueVisions rainfade, it's 6:40pm and here in western Bangkok the clouds are low and very black...getting ready to possibly rain...but it ain't raining yet. And my Truevisions signal has went bye-bye (ie., getting Low Signal, Search for Signal msgs). No problem just switched to C Band so the wife won't miss her nightly Ch 7 soap shows.

It does not have to be raining where you are.

It is rain in the line of sight from the dish to the satellite that matters.