Traffic Jam

[Chunky1]

Just curious what is considered more economically long term, for those knowledgeable about cars.

[thomo]

Park.

Jump out, get a massage and lunch.

Come back. Go.

[metisdead]

As you have to put your foot on the break to get the automatic tranny out of park (wasting precious seconds) I put mine in neutral, check to see the car ain't rolling, then sit there. Or, maybe better safety wise, neutral and a little bit of parking brake.

[longball53098]

When I have to wait at those long, long lights I set the parking brake and bump the gear selector in to neutral. If on any significant incline then I keep my foot on the brake also but just lightly.

[Chunky1]

i want to know what is best for the car, not what you do.

[metisdead]

i want to know what is best for the car, not what you do.

I posted what I do as that is what is best for the car which is why I posted what I did, as have others.

So, do what you want then.

Up to you.

[Spoonman]

I posted what I do as that is what is best for the car which is why I posted what I did, as have others.

So, do what you want then.

Up to you.

Do you have any proof to back your claims ???

I myself leave my vehicle in drive and just pull on the Park brake, if it looks likes its going to be an extend wait I might then consider putting the vehicle into neutral.

[metisdead]

I posted what I do as that is what is best for the car which is why I posted what I did, as have others.

So, do what you want then.

Up to you.

Do you have any proof to back your claims ???

I myself leave my vehicle in drive and just pull on the Park brake, if it looks likes its going to be an extend wait I might then consider putting the vehicle into neutral.

Proof? No, just common sense.

[neverdie]

I posted what I do as that is what is best for the car which is why I posted what I did, as have others.

So, do what you want then.

Up to you.

Do you have any proof to back your claims ???

I myself leave my vehicle in drive and just pull on the Park brake, if it looks likes its going to be an extend wait I might then consider putting the vehicle into neutral.

Actually,

transam just provided you with the information for the proof. It seems you're more interested in pursuing the other poster than realising that this has just occurred.

if memory serves me right, transam is more than qualified to provide that information OR were you chasing a pretty graff or sumfing?

[Chunky1]

If a long time put in neutral with hand brake, to much messing about going up into park.

In drive and stationary you get heat build up in the trans (oil) as the converter is fighting against drive, for normal traffic light stoppage leave in drive, better for the drive train long term.

thx transam.

at what amount of expected waiting time should i put it in neutral? like, if i am gonna have to wait 3 minutes should i still just keep it in drive and my foot on the brake or shift to neutral? thx

Edited May 31, 2010 by Chunky1

[Crossy]

at what amount of expected waiting time should i put it in neutral? like, if i am gonna have to wait 3 minutes should i still just keep it in drive and my foot on the brake or shift to neutral? thx

I no longer drive an auto (prefer a manual box) but my old auto Beemer would go into neutral itself (or a good approximation of neutral, you could feel the engine unload) after about 30 seconds stopped on the brake. Foot off the brake and it went back into drive almost immediately.

I suppose a lot depends upon how easy it is to shift in and out of drive and how quickly your transmission takes up. It's one of those things that's up2u.

Quite a few people do use park, you can tell when you're behind one, when the lights change you get a scary flash of reversing lights as the lever goes through reverse.

[Spoonman]

I posted what I do as that is what is best for the car which is why I posted what I did, as have others.

So, do what you want then.

Up to you.

Do you have any proof to back your claims ???

I myself leave my vehicle in drive and just pull on the Park brake, if it looks likes its going to be an extend wait I might then consider putting the vehicle into neutral.

Actually,

transam just provided you with the information for the proof. It seems you're more interested in pursuing the other poster than realising that this has just occurred.

if memory serves me right, transam is more than qualified to provide that information OR were you chasing a pretty graff or sumfing?

No agenda, I actually didnt see Transams post, When someone spouts that there way is the best way I will always ask for proof, just because its said does not mean it is so.

[Lickey]

OP, you can test your vehichle yourself, very easy, take it for a run, warm up the trans, stop on a level road, select neutral, [engine running,] if vehicle dosent move [no brakes] its a level road, then select drive, the engine will slow a little as it powers up the trans, and might even creep a few inches, but if engine tickover is right, it will come to a standstill, with no brakes applied, no harm atall!! whilst in drive it is circulating the oil through-out the gear box filter and cooler.

I worked on overhauling autotrans for 7 years, mainly big Allisons and the New World series, 18 months into the job i had to re-con an urban 45 seater bus trans, 1 of many, i saw this bus on my way to work and on the way home, now this so called driver would sit at traffic lights in drive foot on the brake and throttle, i could hear the engine screaming away from my van, as soon as the lights changed, he was off, I asked the chief trans engineer about this, he said, dont worry, the bus is not moving, the trans is doing nothing, 4 years later, i overhauled the trans again, just normal wear and tear, not bad 450,000 miles since the last overhaul, but it had 2 engines in that time,

So OP, the auto has been around many years now, just drive how you feel comfortable,,

[VocalNeal]

Chunky,

Is there a particular car in question? Most here seem to be concentrating on conventional auto transmissions. Not all auto cars in Thailand are 'conventional"

[katabeachbum]

OP, you can test your vehicle yourself, very easy, take it for a run, warm up the trans, stop on a level road, select neutral, [engine running,] if vehicle dosent move [no brakes] its a level road, then select drive, the engine will slow a little as it powers up the trans, and might even creep a few inches, but if engine tickover is right, it will come to a standstill, with no brakes applied, no harm atall!! whilst in drive it is circulating the oil through-out the gear box filter and cooler.

I worked on overhauling auto trans for 7 years, mainly big Allisons and the New World series, 18 months into the job i had to re-con an urban 45 seater bus trans, 1 of many, i saw this bus on my way to work and on the way home, now this so called driver would sit at traffic lights in drive foot on the brake and throttle, i could hear the engine screaming away from my van, as soon as the lights changed, he was off, I asked the chief trans engineer about this, he said, dont worry, the bus is not moving, the trans is doing nothing, 4 years later, i overhauled the trans again, just normal wear and tear, not bad 450,000 miles since the last overhaul, but it had 2 engines in that time,

So OP, the auto has been around many years now, just drive how you feel comfortable,,

With the greatest of respect l must differ. Every car l have been involved with, with auto will move forward in drive with no brakes applied unless perhaps you are facing uphill or you have a high stall converter fitted. When in the states l did notice that auto coaches revs were very high to get the thing moving so l would suggest they have a higher stall converter than your basic car, could be wrong with that but my thoughts. Put a car into drive with no brakes applied and see what happens, especially if the motor has high torque numbers at idle.

The comparison of a car and coach auto really isn't on. The trans in a coach or heavy goods vehicle will be designed to take serious abuse because of the nature of it's job, including cooling. Same with their engines, over engineered to last for continuous use and abuse.

Coming to a red light we apply brakes to reduce speed and stop. This heats the brakes. When in Drive, there is always a push from the engine to move vehicle. So we usually hold vehicle with the brakes. This makes burn markes on the rotors, cause they are already hot. These burn markes makes rotors uneven, initially giving vibrations when braking lightly at any speed. Some drivers need new rotors at 40k km some at 80k km.

So to avoid heating of auto and damaging rotors, I change to Neutral and apply handbrake whenever redlight is more than 60 seconds. I leave my foot very slightly on brake to remain brake lights until they are covered by another vehicle. Drive again when 5 sconds left. Love those seconds displays.

My Dodge Ram 5,9 Cummins with 4 speed auto was so powerful on cold idle, I actually had to choose Neutral down hill on snow/ice because of the push on the rearwheels

[Lickey]

Transam, of course they had high stall converters,and a 6 litre cummins engine would scream at 1200rpm against the convertor holding it back, max power would be from 1350 to 2500 rpm, the convertors also had a lock up, bringing in a 1 to1 drive through the box, also to allow precise free wheeling when of the throttle, also big trans dont have a park faccilty, it would be to easily broken due to the weight of the vehicle.

The buses in the US you mentioned probably have the Allison new world trans, the control is all done by touchpad, no stick, you can select park and the brakes will come on, plus you can also up the engine revs to maintain AC or heating, even with these settings, touch drive and it will be off, many UK dustcarts and buses have had this for 12 odd years now.

So has this tecnology not filtered through to cars ect yet?

[katabeachbum]

Transam, of course they had high stall converters,and a 6 litre cummins engine would scream at 1200rpm against the converter holding it back, max power would be from 1350 to 2500 rpm, the converters also had a lock up, bringing in a 1 to1 drive through the box, also to allow precise free wheeling when of the throttle, also big trans dont have a park faccilty, it would be to easily broken due to the weight of the vehicle.

The buses in the US you mentioned probably have the Allison new world trans, the control is all done by touchpad, no stick, you can select park and the brakes will come on, plus you can also up the engine revs to maintain AC or heating, even with these settings, touch drive and it will be off, many UK dustcarts and buses have had this for 12 odd years now.

So has this tecnology not filtered through to cars ect yet?

The point of my reply to your post was that l didn't agree, reason was 99.9% of stationary cars, engine running, in drive, feet off the brakes will move forward, in fact will not stop till it reaches an incline or pedestrian. A truck or bus auto is no comparison.

As a way off comparison, my 6.8 ltr Pontiac with a B&M 3,600 stall 'street' converter still had to be held on the brakes and that thing had an 800 rpm choppy idle.

agree, any car on idle in Drive will move without brakes applied (even up hill if its new), while trucks, buses and large machinery as mobile cranes dont move until rpm is increased with a couple of hundred

[Lickey]

Ok fine, a car will creep if drive is selected when stopped, my point is that all the TC is doing is spinning the drive vane against a stationary vane, this keeps the trans loaded, if you keep "unloading" the trans, this will send shockwaves through it when you select drive and accelerate, specially when the light goes green and you are in a hurry,

I would think a max of 3 mins to hold it on the footbrake, or handbrake if you dont want to dazzle those behind you in a storm, and then, when you select drive, feel the box engage before you accelerate, and dont worry about the brakes, vented discs cool quick, even my mrs wave has heat marks on them,,

[katabeachbum]

Ok fine, a car will creep if drive is selected when stopped, my point is that all the TC is doing is spinning the drive vane against a stationary vane, this keeps the trans loaded, if you keep "unloading" the trans, this will send shockwaves through it when you select drive and accelerate, specially when the light goes green and you are in a hurry,

I would think a max of 3 mins to hold it on the footbrake, or handbrake if you dont want to dazzle those behind you in a storm, and then, when you select drive, feel the box engage before you accelerate, and dont worry about the brakes, vented discs cool quick, even my mrs wave has heat marks on them,,

Glad you agree with the obvious at last about creeping, in fact l did a test in the Vigo and reached near 20kph. My previous post stated that continuous disengaging/engaging will cause adverse effects long term to the trans. Holding your foot on the breaks for long periods transfers high temps and cooks the brake fluid. If you are town driving the vented disks do not have time to do their job and cool down,

yepp my Dodge ram with 5,9 Cummins and 4 speed auto did 30 kmh on cold idle in Drive, and as transam say Fortuner and Vigo almost 20 kmh.

Keeping the pressure on brake pedal after full stop damages discs. As a car importer and dealer I told this to all my customers. Those who didnt get it, needed new discs at 30-40 k km. My ex GF in her Fortuner never got it. New brakes at 30 k km. My 3x Vigos brakes last 50-60 k km, driven much much harder. Why?