Thai PM Abhisit Under Fire Over Deadly Crackdown

[shrekroma]

But isn't it remarkable how peaceful Bangkok is without the marauding reds.

Another self-serving comment blaming Reds to fullfil Thaksin hatred syndrome.

BKK was a peaceful city for a LONG time before. Who start first ?

If you are not that blind, you already know the answer.

And you know what. God bless Thailand. None of those junkie is put to jail.

One even made his way to this cabinet. Way to go. LOS.

Anyone dare to disagree with this Gov is suddenly become one of Thaksin cronies ?

As far as I see. No one in this forum claim all Reds did was right.

They are pointing out a wider and much bigger problems. Double standard - ie.

It's funny that you keep bashing other who disagree with you as a Red apologist machine.

Whereas 'you' never get outside of your yellow box, but no one seems to care.

Edited June 7, 2010 by shrekroma

[animatic]

I had always thought the events at the temple were potentially very significant, since this was one of the incidents where serious wrongdoing by the Thai military might be established. Before the events were reported in the mainstream media, I had been told by a redshirt acquaintance that lethal shots were fired down into the temple from the elevated tracks (something I posted on the forum). We've seen you-tube videos showing first ground level film of incoming fire at the temple and now the distant shot of figures who appear to be firing down from the tracks. Personally I have big problems believing that anybody other than the Thai military could have occupied the positions shown in the video for the length of time involved on 19th without being engaged by the army. I say that because the army had used the tracks to get men into the area in the first place, and because ABC reported seeing soldiers in that vicinity on the 19th (in the article where a reported casts doubt on Suthep's account that there were no military personnel there on 19th). If there is anything resembling an independent inquiry, I think this evidence will carry a lot of weight.

A 100% red apologist working on the 'independent' observer angle.

Nothing now done by the reds is significant because they are innocent of anything untoward at all.

Looking to pin the blame tail on his monkey of choice.

But isn't it remarkable how peaceful Bangkok is without the marauding reds.

Yesssss, Yoshi, serenely peaceful. And hopefully most of them are back where they belong earning one hundred and twenty baht a day. That damned corrupt Thaksin wasn't content with milking the country like the rest of his peers. The stupid so and so inadvertently let the democracy cat out of the bag in our lovely little semi-third world playground. And for that, he is to be condemned to hel_l for eternity (or until his peers are found out by the country's greater population).

If anyone thinks that the BTS tracks are the ONLY high vantage point into the temple they haven't viewed the place.

One good silenced sniper farther back, and above, shooting OVER or past the 'possibly soldiers' on the BTS tracks would have the same effect.

It's clear the whole point of the Red exercise was to gin up ways to make the government /Dems look PERMANENTLY bad

and thus un-electable for the long term. Ceeding power to PTP/Thaksin/Reds With the money involved,

no scruples would be attached to the 'working arm' of this insurrection by manipulation of public opinion.

Thaksin waved the fantasy of actual democracy in front of the up country masses like a carrot in a donkey's face,

and behold the donkey moved where the carrot waved. And yet the man holding the carrot still sits on the wagon

and makes the donkey pull the load. Vested interests iron fisted control behind the facade of free democracy, is not democracy

Sadly the democracy as advertised, is not the one that would be applied if that side of the fight took control.

[shrekroma]

If anyone thinks that the BTS tracks are the ONLY high vantage point into the temple they haven't viewed the place.

One good silenced sniper farther back, and above, shooting OVER or past the 'possibly soldiers' on the BTS tracks would have the same effect.

You cant shoot thru gap between dual BTS track, It's too narrow. Above BTS is too far. Cant be 'aim-shoot' shot as it happened.

Plus opposite the temple is a police head quarter. So, the posiblity is very slim.

Either from BTS or beneath it. No other ways.

Those poor reds were shot from either blk or military.

Now this Gov has to explain how blk could get into BTS station while military already secured the area & had fully controll over it

Edited June 7, 2010 by shrekroma

[Rucharee]

If anyone thinks that the BTS tracks are the ONLY high vantage point into the temple they haven't viewed the place.

One good silenced sniper farther back, and above, shooting OVER or past the 'possibly soldiers' on the BTS tracks would have the same effect.

You cant shoot thru gap between dual BTS track, It's too narrow. Above BTS is too far. Cant be 'aim-shoot' shot as it happened.

Plus opposite the temple is a police head quarter. So, the posiblity is very slim.

Either from BTS or beneath it. No other ways.

Those poor reds were shot from either blk or military.

Now this Gov has to explain how blk could get into BTS station while military already secured the area & had fully controll over it

A.) If Govt knew, and it wasn't them, they would have explained already through CRES.

B.) If Govt knew, and it was them, just keep saying it wasn't govt, and blame the 3rd (and unknown) party.

C.) If Govt did not know, just keep saying it blaming the Re-shirt did it.

[citizen33]

I had always thought the events at the temple were potentially very significant, since this was one of the incidents where serious wrongdoing by the Thai military might be established. Before the events were reported in the mainstream media, I had been told by a redshirt acquaintance that lethal shots were fired down into the temple from the elevated tracks (something I posted on the forum).

A 100% red apologist working on the 'independent' observer angle.

Nothing now done by the reds is significant because they are innocent of anything untoward at all.

Looking to pin the blame tail on his monkey of choice.

But isn't it remarkable how peaceful Bangkok is without the marauding reds.

Well of course you knew I'd posted this allegation from my red acquaintance, because you replied saying that nothing the reds said could be believed. The film of the men on the tracks should occasion a pause for thought, assuming even a grain of honesty. Rather than name calling, it would be nice to hear your analysis of the situation: beyond the 'one man explains all' theory of history that seems implicit in your posts, there doesn't seem a great deal of substance there. I stick with my view that this stuff will be central if there is a proper investigation.

[animatic]

The You Tube video showing army soldiers shooting into the temple from the BTS tracks (lower track) is clearly May 19th due to the fires and smoke. How could Suthep claim this must have been May 20th as no soldiers were on the tracks on the 19th.

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I hope after the next elections the new government clearly invokes a UN independent investigation into April and May 2010. Lets all hope and pray PTP win the election and then FULL investigations are carried out into what will then be these past events.

Because it is a cut & paste job. Heard of Photoshop?

Photoshop is typically used for single image manipulation,

but not video compositing. It is not a siple cut and paste job as you imply.

It would take frame by frame superimposition 15, 25 or 30 frames for EVERY second of video.

using photoshop and a video edit program.... days of work, not exactly the logical way to do.

[cdnvic]

Ok, next personal shot at another member earns a time out.

One post deleted.

[yoshiwara]

But isn't it remarkable how peaceful Bangkok is without the marauding reds.

Another self-serving comment blaming Reds to fullfil Thaksin hatred syndrome.

BKK was a peaceful city for a LONG time before. Who start first ?

If you are not that blind, you already know the answer.

And you know what. God bless Thailand. None of those junkie is put to jail.

One even made his way to this cabinet. Way to go. LOS.

Anyone dare to disagree with this Gov is suddenly become one of Thaksin cronies ?

As far as I see. No one in this forum claim all Reds did was right.

They are pointing out a wider and much bigger problems. Double standard - ie.

It's funny that you keep bashing other who disagree with you as a Red apologist machine.

Whereas 'you' never get outside of your yellow box, but no one seems to care.

When Thaksin's push comes to shove, some stand in line.

Attentively.

The workers of Bangkok care that the cheerleaders' mates have been kicked out, not to return.

The Bangkok box closed for them now.

Edited June 7, 2010 by yoshiwara

[rubl]

Having read posts from the last two days I feel we should tell whatever commission is investigating to contact a few of the chaps here. Some seem to know about it, almost as if they where present

On the other hand, maybe we should close this thread and start a new one.

[animatic]

If anyone thinks that the BTS tracks are the ONLY high vantage point into the temple they haven't viewed the place.

One good silenced sniper farther back, and above, shooting OVER or past the 'possibly soldiers' on the BTS tracks would have the same effect.

You cant shoot thru gap between dual BTS track, It's too narrow. Above BTS is too far. Cant be 'aim-shoot' shot as it happened.

Plus opposite the temple is a police head quarter. So, the posiblity is very slim.

Either from BTS or beneath it. No other ways.

Those poor reds were shot from either blk or military.

Now this Gov has to explain how blk could get into BTS station while military already secured the area & had fully controll over it

Oh, so you figure NO POLICE are involved in the Black hands.... rightyo....

The police want Abhisit gone as much as anyone in Thailand.

Are the BIB noted for their moral integrity?

[ChiangMaiFun]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

[Insight]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

[apostrophe]

The bullet was of the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

The bullet was of the type used by anyone who fires that particular weapon, be they hired guns or other.

Why is believing that the black shirts are capable of shooting red shirts in "very, very bad taste"?

No one needs to "claim that" here, it's already theorized in various articles as a possibility, same as others are.

[animatic]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

I also suspect someone (plural) working for the Red's Overlord did this.

Just sacrificing pawns, who can be used/abused in a bigger plan than they can understand.

Because it fits perfectly with the Red controller's whole logical reasons to have the rally the way they did.

Bring down the government AND if possible nullify the only coherent opposition party; Dems,

and take them out for the long run.... Best done with high body count to blame on the Army.

Which also aids in reshuffling the army cards their way if they steal power back.

Do I think that those at the top of the Red hierarchy are immoral enough for this?

Absolutely.

Edited June 7, 2010 by animatic

[jdinasia]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

[jdinasia]

deleted --- double post

Edited June 7, 2010 by jdinasia

[mazeltov]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that ...

hmmm. who are these people who have thought that? You? and some other of usual "experts" here at this board? anyone else?

[Insight]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that ...

hmmm. who are these people who have thought that? You? and some other of usual "experts" here at this board? anyone else?

CRES, who explained at length during one of their pressers about the YouTube video of the poor sod carrying the flag being snipered from behind.

The next day I was down Ratchaprasong and heard the guy on the red stage dismissing the evidence as being doctored, despite it being the exact same clip on YouTube being discussed.

[Publicus]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that ...

hmmm. who are these people who have thought that? You? and some other of usual "experts" here at this board? anyone else?

mazletov, in a directly related matter, how about the link you presented to Foreign Policy magazine, published by the Washington based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (a serious organization), which I'm sure you read regularly . The article was suddenly pulled by the publication and the Endowment and has yet to reappear in its monthly journal. I myself do read FP zine regularly. It seems on closer inspection of the pulled article, the editors of FP decided someone slipped the Thaksin piece in to the zine while no one was looking.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Publicus

[Tony Clifton]

But isn't it remarkable how peaceful Bangkok is without the marauding reds.

Another self-serving comment blaming Reds to fullfil Thaksin hatred syndrome.

BKK was a peaceful city for a LONG time before. Who start first ?

If you are not that blind, you already know the answer.

And you know what. God bless Thailand. None of those junkie is put to jail.

One even made his way to this cabinet. Way to go. LOS.

Anyone dare to disagree with this Gov is suddenly become one of Thaksin cronies ?

As far as I see. No one in this forum claim all Reds did was right.

They are pointing out a wider and much bigger problems. Double standard - ie.

It's funny that you keep bashing other who disagree with you as a Red apologist machine.

Whereas 'you' never get outside of your yellow box, but no one seems to care.

*I highlighted the text in red above.

You are conveniently shoving aside a large number of bullets fired, explosions and grenades that were lobbed at anything that went against Thaksin's will since around 2004 as Thaksin started drawing more and more suckers in, he also created more and more opposition and made countless ennemies. The culmination was the Red disaster.

Explosions started around 2004 here and there in Bamgkok whenever intimidation. Prem's residence, Dr.Pornthip Rojanasunan's office, Somchai the missing lawyer probably heard quite clearly the explosion that killed him for the gun stuck in his ear, same for Sondhi Limthongkul who was shot at, the New Year bombings, and on and on.

What you recently saw in Bangkok was his grand finale and last ditch effort to detail Thailand into civil war and chaos, wanting to come back as a savior as he did once at the Suwarnhabumi airport, burning the ground he once kissed.

Snakes must and will always crawl.

He failed miserably once again with his Reds and looks worse now than he did before.

He overshot long before reentry, overestimating his charisma and number of troops or zombies ready to betray Thailand along with him. His miscalculations are proportional to his overinflated ego, as always, fooled by the money he spends in PR firms, lawyers and think tanks with no conscience.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Tony Clifton

[jdinasia]

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that ...

hmmm. who are these people who have thought that? You? and some other of usual "experts" here at this board? anyone else?

CRES, who explained at length during one of their pressers about the YouTube video of the poor sod carrying the flag being snipered from behind.

The next day I was down Ratchaprasong and heard the guy on the red stage dismissing the evidence as being doctored, despite it being the exact same clip on YouTube being discussed.

Perhaps Maz has never considered the POSSIBILITY.

People that will kill to attain political means certainly won't hesitate to do exactly that .. kill for political means. Thankfully the government currently in power is not the one that we had 2001-2006. His (Thaksin) "war on drugs" was purely political and killed over 2700 Thais ... his current war on the government has cost another 100+

That he'll kill for political reasons is clear, let's hope they actually do manage to have him arrested soon!

[mazeltov]

mazletov, in a directly related matter, how about the article you presented linked to Foreign Policy magazine, published by the Washington based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (a serious organization), which I'm sure you read regularly which was suddenly pulled by the publication and the Endowment and which yet to reappear in its monthly journal. I myself do read FP zine regularly.

 Try instead this Carnegie FP zine blogspot link which hasn't suddenly been pulled:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/11Thaksin_stirs_the_pot_once_again

And this FP magazine spot was written before Thaksin the Terrorist Torch set his Red flamethrowers loose on Bangkok.  

Sorry, your link, it says: "The requested page could not be found."

and i doubt that the FP would make such claims that the dead resulting from Thaksins order to create 'a few more red martyrs'

Anyway you could try this instead:

Listen what they said at the European Parliament about the Abhisit government, the crackdown, the censorship, the violation of basic civil rights ...

[/url][/url][/url]

-----

Btw, did you know that Fabien Baussart, the chairman of the Center Of Political And Foreign Affairs in Paris, where Thaksin was supposed to hold a speech, is also an editior of Foreign Policy Edition Française

Foreign Policy - Qui sommes-nous ?

[rabo]

The bullet wa sof the type used by the Army - no one is seriously suggesting the reds shot into the temple are they? that would be incredulous in the extreme and in very, very bad taste and I don't believe even the most hardened yellows on here would claim that.

I suspect they did.

hmmmmm People have thought since April that Sae Daeng's ronin were responsible for the headshots on the reds that came from inside the area they controlled. It has been said since before they came to town that they needed Red red blood on the streets to force the government to fold nd that they would use ANY means to make sure that happened. Why wouldn't we believe that the people responsible for grenading people at random would hesitate to further Thaksin's political aims but making a few more red martyrs?

If you don't see this as a POSSIBILITY then you really have not been in Thailand very long OR studied Thai politics at all.

One only need clear the mind and write out the answers to the following.

1. What possible benefit does the government have by targeting and killing people in the temple after the breakup of the protests in an obvious way?

2. What possible benefit do anti-government forces have by targeting and killing people in the temple after the breakup of the protests in an obvious way?

3. Who might be considered anti-government?

Edited June 7, 2010 by rabo

[Siam Simon]

It seems on closer inspection of the pulled article, the editors of FP decided someone slipped the Thaksin piece in to the zine while no one was looking. 

Where does that seem to be the case on closer inspection? Links to the closer inspection please, mr propagandist.

[Insight]

mazletov, in a directly related matter, how about the article you presented linked to Foreign Policy magazine, published by the Washington based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (a serious organization), which I'm sure you read regularly which was suddenly pulled by the publication and the Endowment and which yet to reappear in its monthly journal. I myself do read FP zine regularly.

 Try instead this Carnegie FP zine blogspot link which hasn't suddenly been pulled:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/11Thaksin_stirs_the_pot_once_again

And this FP magazine spot was written before Thaksin the Terrorist Torch set his Red flamethrowers loose on Bangkok.  

Sorry, your link, it says: "The requested page could not be found."

and i doubt that the FP would make such claims that the dead resulting from Thaksins order to create 'a few more red martyrs'

Anyway you could try this instead:

Listen what they said at the European Parliament about the Abhisit government, the crackdown, the censorship, the violation of basic civil rights ...

[/url][/url][/url][/url]

-----

Btw, did you know that Fabien Baussart, the chairman of the Center Of Political And Foreign Affairs in Paris, where Thaksin was supposed to hold a speech, is also an editior of Foreign Policy Edition Française

Foreign Policy - Qui sommes-nous ?

The first two were not overly critical, but some of the others...!?!

This was a fight between the red and the yellows...?

Abhisit came to power through a coup...?

I stopped at 6mins in. Will watch again and reply to the video later.

Morons.

[bristolgeoff]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

[Kusobusisi]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

Yes he offered that in November. They accepted and then reneged on the deal on orders from Montenegro.

Of course, you know that already, you just choose to ignore that fact.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

Yes he offered that in November. They accepted and then reneged on the deal on orders from Montenegro.

Of course, you know that already, you just choose to ignore that fact.

I'm not getting into any more arguements with this yellow dominated board as it get's me into trouble with Mods - the answer is elections - always has been and always will be - let him win a genuine election and I will support whoever wins - fair enough? they are coming anyway - we shall see how much support the government has.

[KireB]

I'm not getting into any more arguements with this yellow dominated board as it get's me into trouble with Mods - the answer is elections - always has been and always will be - let him win a genuine election and I will support whoever wins - fair enough? they are coming anyway - we shall see how much support the government has.

When are the new elections in Myanmar? October 10th? Lets support who ever will win. Fair enough, not?