Desperate British Expat Searches For Kidnapped Son In Bangkok

[sukhumvitlegend]

The very best of luck to you Martin

[SPIKECM]

It might be a two way street, but 99% of the traffic goes one way.

I am so sorry to hear this as I am expecting a child myself in a couple of months. Having your child ransomed by his grandmother?? This truly is Amazing Thailand. Which is also a two way street.......I strongly suggest hiring the right people

who could bring this issue to a resolution. And no, they would not have brown uniforms....

[MikeyIdea]

I have been present on occasion in Thai Family Court listening to a case in which the Thai mothers family asked the Judge for for 20-30,000 baht/month to take care of the child. The female Thai Judge with a clearly upset facial expression told the mothers family very clearly that the father, be he Thai or non Thai responsibility is the childs food and school, and NOT supporting the wifes family. The wifes family must support themselves.

Rest assured, Judges in family court are well paid, highly educated, and do not identify with low life scum that use children as a way to get money.

I am very sorry to hear about your child.

Very true. Juvenile court has a formula to calculate child support and it's something like a hundred bath per day! A bit more for toddlers and teenagers. There is some mis-leading information from people who don't know what they are talking about in this thread.

I hear too little about the mother which makes me suspicious. But honestly, I can't see that it matters really. The father has the right to proceed with the kidnapping charges and I think he should. The father may not have told the mother-in-law directly to return the child but so what, the mother-in-law (or whoever) has been told *by the father!* to return the child, the mother-in-law doesn't speak English and the father doesn't speak Thai - valid reason for him not doing it himself. Another option: A small incorrectness, and state that the father told the mother-on-law to return the child, sounds as convenient as it is innocent to me... The mother-in-law can technically have the mothers permission to keep the child and still be guilty of kidnapping, as she doesn't return the child to the father when he demands it.

It is very possible that the police won't act because they feel that the mother is "in the middle" and would suffer from it. I'd say this is a likely possibility. I still think that forcing kidnapping charges would be the best long-term solution though. Very good deterrent for the future.

I suggest getting the lawyer to explain to the mother that the father will now press formal kidnapping changes against xxxx (get that name in Thai first) and ask him specifically to check the mothers reaction to it all. If the reaction is, good, then bring her when doing it, if she is hesitant, then do it without her.

It wouldn't be the first time in Thailand that parents or relatives use their own child to get money, or puts her in a very difficult situation to get money. I remember a friend of mine in the early 90's who came home to a totally empty house one day finding his wife sitting crying on the floor. Her parents had taken everything and there was of course nothing she could do about it. She didn't want to talk about it and he didn't push it. It was obvoius anyway. They are still together, but don't live in Thailand any longer

Good Luck

[reefsurfah]

This story doesn't make sense. Seems like a family argument, and how could the grandma take the child in the first place? And for 10K baht? Where is the mother in all of this? ..Thailand isn't part of Hague, so police won't do anything..

I don't think were getting the true facts, both sides of the story...something is fishy.

[Robby nz]

Hi Martin

get this on all the media, as many TV channels and papers as possible.

There have been a couple of cases recently ( not kidnappings) where getting a high media profile has prompted the cops into action. They dont like to be seen by everyone as useless and they can act if the get pushed.

Start by calling the Nation which has both papers and a TV station then get on as many others as you can then the cops should act.

Best of luck Robby

[Scott]

Let's keep our posts civil. The situation is very difficult for the family.

[gregb]

I hear too little about the mother which makes me suspicious. But honestly, I can't see that it matters really. The father has the right to proceed with the kidnapping charges and I think he should. The father may not have told the mother-in-law directly to return the child but so what, the mother-in-law (or whoever) has been told *by the father!* to return the child, the mother-in-law doesn't speak English and the father doesn't speak Thai - valid reason for him not doing it himself. Another option: A small incorrectness, and state that the father told the mother-on-law to return the child, sounds as convenient as it is innocent to me... The mother-in-law can technically have the mothers permission to keep the child and still be guilty of kidnapping, as she doesn't return the child to the father when he demands it.

OK, but again, what happens when the MIL says "Sorry, I lost the child. Don't know where he is."

That makes her a bad baby sitter. Possibly guilty of negligence and a civil law suit, but is she still guilty of kidnapping if she was given the child legally by the mother, and now no longer has the child for whatever reason when the father says "give him back"?

I am really curious about this.

[kuffki]

Martin forgot to mention.... forget interpol, police etc.

Thailand is not signed up to any Hague Convention or any other Treaties so there is no such thing as Child abduction there as there is in other Countries that have signed up to the treaty.

You and the mother (whoever is on the birth cert) can ask the local police to help, but they will not as they have no powers in family matters.

If your wife has not actioned so far I stand by my earlier post.....

Start looking for your kid alone .... without your wife.... be cause beleive me.. these families even if you pay the first lot it will keep on going on and on.. they will not hand over the golden goose....

Are you sure? that Thailand has not signed up to any Hague Convention or any other Treaties???????

You may want to do some research prior to posting.

Positive, I had to redo the Thai court orders in Australia to make them valid world wide!

i stand corrected but this is very weird because they do have Interpol offices here, they do have many agreements in place, not to mention applying for sit on UN, so one would assume Thailand would be signed up to such or similar treaty. Also what about pedophile cases for which they extradite and arrest people. Hmmmm very very strange.

In this case, i think there are still a few options

1. Lawyer

2. Reward to police

3. Reward to anyone who provides information and location(paid upon seeing child)

4. Once child is located, taking 2 cops with you(of course cover their time) and go to remove the child

PS. Taking cops is for OP's personal safety and would also ensure local cops would not interfere

[Roachiebkk]

As a father I could not imagine what you are going through. I have no advice to offer and there seems to be lots of posters here with plenty of advice. I really hope for a speedy resolution of this and you and your sone can carry on with a normal family existence.

Good luck Martin

[Crushdepth]

Wishing you luck.

[TheWalkingMan]

I don't have any good suggestions, but I do hope you can recover your son soon.

TheWalkingMan

[Mario2008]

This is not an inetrnational kidnapping. The offence is commited in Thailand and punishable under Thai law.

It is also not a parental kidknapping case.

Back to to the topic please.

[mjperry]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

The 10k baht is ridiculously low, it was what was asked for after they told us they no longer had our son at this address in Saphan Taksin but if we wanted to go check anyway they wanted this to allow us to go see. The mother is far more subtle in any requests for what she wants, as I have heard from others in this situation before, there is no figure given, just an opportunity given for you to make an offer to appease them. It is given as 'We don't trust your husband, what can he do to make us trust him again?'

Martin

This doesn't seem to be a parental kidknapping case, the inlaws seem to have kidnapped the child and the mother doesn't have anything to do with it.

I'm not pretending the wife has something to do with it, but your statement remains to be proven.

The story seems quite strange.

The alleged kidnapping and then the demand for 10k baht (a ridiculously low sum) don't logically fit.

so... unless the inlaws are nuts, there must be much more to this story than told by Martin.

Martin, please enlighten us.

Edited June 1, 2010 by mjperry

[kuffki]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

The 10k baht is ridiculously low, it was what was asked for after they told us they no longer had our son at this address in Saphan Taksin but if we wanted to go check anyway they wanted this to allow us to go see. The mother is far more subtle in any requests for what she wants, as I have heard from others in this situation before, there is no figure given, just an opportunity given for you to make an offer to appease them. It is given as 'We don't trust your husband, what can he do to make us trust him again?'

Martin

This doesn't seem to be a parental kidknapping case, the inlaws seem to have kidnapped the child and the mother doesn't have anything to do with it.

I'm not pretending the wife has something to do with it, but your statement remains to be proven.

The story seems quite strange.

The alleged kidnapping and then the demand for 10k baht (a ridiculously low sum) don't logically fit.

so... unless the inlaws are nuts, there must be much more to this story than told by Martin.

Martin, please enlighten us.

Possibly the 10 000 is for the 2 months that they have had the baby. As we all know, girls would usually send 5000 every month to the parents to take care of their child, so this amount seems to fit into that

[ravin]

This is so sad

I hope you get your son back soon.

Rasnam

[BigWheelMan]

The OP already has a lead, the mother in law knows the whereabouts of the child, so why ain`t the police interrogating her? Or if the local authorities are not interested, than go in there with a couple of heavy’s and encourage the family to divulge where they have taken the child.

And I have to ask, what sort of people are his wife’s family and what has the OP gotten himself involved with here?

Strangest case I’ve ever heard.

Edited June 1, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[kennalder]

Can't you offer them money to end this?

Would that be an end? Next time they needed money, there goes the kid again.

I must admit, I would like to hear the other side of the story.

If the ransom part is true, then maybe the best course of action is to hire a, shall we say, "A child rescue squad".

You do not want to create an endless loop of family in financial trouble followed by kidnapping followed by paying the ransom.

The other thing I would examine very closely is just how distraught is the mother. I don't mean just acting. Is she really at wits end? Could be just another scam. In which case you need to watch your behind.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

The 10k baht is ridiculously low, it was what was asked for after they told us they no longer had our son at this address in Saphan Taksin but if we wanted to go check anyway they wanted this to allow us to go see. The mother is far more subtle in any requests for what she wants, as I have heard from others in this situation before, there is no figure given, just an opportunity given for you to make an offer to appease them. It is given as 'We don't trust your husband, what can he do to make us trust him again?'

Martin

This doesn't seem to be a parental kidknapping case, the inlaws seem to have kidnapped the child and the mother doesn't have anything to do with it.

I'm not pretending the wife has something to do with it, but your statement remains to be proven.

The story seems quite strange.

The alleged kidnapping and then the demand for 10k baht (a ridiculously low sum) don't logically fit.

so... unless the inlaws are nuts, there must be much more to this story than told by Martin.

Martin, please enlighten us.

Am very sorry to hear your predicament. As others have mentioned, get a good lawyer, get the "legal" system turning. If this is an abduction as you describe, the law will be on your side. Getting the system moving also puts the issue into the public domain and shows that you are willing to trust the law more than "pay" your way out. This is vital in this situation, since extortion relies on the victims remaining powerless and the story remaining secret.

I can understand the potential for your wife having divided loyalties in this, but this situation is where her loyalty has to be only one way, to you and your kid.

[ramirez]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

I think your wife is full of baloney... "My mother stole my son for money", but I want to protect her as a "good Thai daughter"

Come on get real! In other words, my mother is more important than you or your child, haha Wake up!

This may sound like a joke to you, but the reality is, especially in rural areas, that the hirarchy goes like:

1. parents (they are god for you, nothing touches them)

2. child (thats something you created, so you have certain power and control over it)

(and assume that those rules are carved with blood in stone)

[Blackmirage]

No offense, Martin, but this whole story could be a fraud. I mean where is the evidence? It is just a man's story printed up in a newspaper.

I've seen several occasions where people "claim" something horrible has happened to them, only to find out later that those people were CON ARTISTS or ATTENTION SEEKERS.

Take, for example, the balloon boy.... you know that kid who was supposedly lost in a hot air balloon. Turned out his parents were just LYING and wanted to get famous for some reality TV show.

Martin, if all this is true, then why not go to your EMBASSY and file a complaint and not do it through TWITTER. I mean in all honesty your approach seems very BOGUS. I would think any normal person would go through the proper channels. Doing something like this anonymously via Twitter or Facebook is extremely suspicious!

I have my doubts, my friend....

[robblok]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

I think your wife is full of baloney... "My mother stole my son for money", but I want to protect her as a "good Thai daughter"

Come on get real! In other words, my mother is more important than you or your child, haha Wake up!

Just be gratefull you never between two people. I have between my wife (now ex) and my parents. That gives a lot of conflicting things.

[Blackmirage]

If someone kidnapped my child, I would not waste a minute on a news website where no one knows who is real. I think something is very wrong here.

Folks, there are scam artists all over the place.

Beware of being fooled.

[stuandchris]

This is your child.

Don't listen to the TIT boys, go to the police station with a camera crew and walk past the desk sergeant and go upstairs to the bosses. They won't know what to do with cameras there.

Confront the first person with a load of scrambled egg on his shoulders and don't smile, be angry.

Contact the papers of your home country, they are loving bad stories about this place at the moment.

Same with the Consul or Embassey.

Thailand don't need bad press at the moment so go and kick some ass.

You want your child back? Don't do the smiley payey shit, show them up and make sure they know the world is watching.

Good luck

[nightmarch]

Thanks for posting my son's story and photo, if anyone thinks they might have seen him in Bangkok anywhere or has contacts who might be able to get us to get the local police interested in helping us find him, please get in touch.

He was last known to be being held in the Saphan Taksin Soi 8 area.

Martin

Martin,

I went through a very similar situation in 2004 when my 3 year old dissapeared.

I was asked for 1 million baht to see my son. The asking party was the in laws.....

To cut a long story short... it was an extortion plan from my wife's family and included my wife; even though she was by my side every day pretending to cry.

I was "wisened" by a police officer who advised me not to believe my wife. This was hard for him to do and for me to believe.

In the end it turned out that my wife was keeping a tab on me while my son would be moved around every time we (I) got closer. Even though I had arranged to pay the money, nothing happened. I did not hand the money over as I insisted that only when I saw my son they would get the money. My wife knew I had the money ready but she also knew that I would not hand it over until I saw my son. I did not give in and held on.....

Eventually I got away from my wife and tracked them all down myself. It took me six months but I did it. These would have had to be the worst 6 months in my life....

I got my son back, divorced my wife and took my son overseas where he has been schooling now for the last 5 years. AND he/we is very HAPPY!

Some notes:

The police officer that made me open my eyes said to me;

1) In Thailand the father has a right to the chidren just as much (if not more) as the mother (not like in our western countries where mums get their way).

2) I was told if I ever saw my son to pick him up in my arms and just walk away. Don't fight, don't argue just walk away! WITH MY SON. In his words who has has. If I had my son no one could take him away NOT EVEN THE POLICE! Same if she had him.

3) Make sure that no friend helps me to carry my son. I was to do it alone. My friends if any helped could be charged with kidnaping. I could not as I am the father.

4) Arrange for a divorce settlement and if there is property involved the wife would be more interested in the property than the child. THEY were 100% correct. She signed away her rights of my son and I walked away with 0% of the house. Not that we foreigners have any right to property as we are made to sign that land is purchased entirely with funds of the wife and 0% contribution form us (foreigners). You can own the house but not the land. I prefered to carry my son away rather than the bricks and tiles...

This is my story and I hope your is really different.....

BUT I tell you these ladies are great actors right to the end.... this is not to imply all Thai ladies but the ones that get up to it they are bloody good at it!

GOOD LUCK!

Tremendous advice and well written. I can attest that (1) is correct: a good friend of mine has custody of his son and the court had no compunction in granting that custody.

I wish you all the very best in getting your son back safe and well.

[Thongkorn]

This is your child.

Don't listen to the TIT boys, go to the police station with a camera crew and walk past the desk sergeant and go upstairs to the bosses. They won't know what to do with cameras there.

Confront the first person with a load of scrambled egg on his shoulders and don't smile, be angry.

Contact the papers of your home country, they are loving bad stories about this place at the moment.

Same with the Consul or Embassey.

Thailand don't need bad press at the moment so go and kick some ass.

You want your child back? Don't do the smiley payey shit, show them up and make sure they know the world is watching.

Good luck

Could you tell us what time visiting time will be from the Bangkok Hilton , if you take this advice.

[Bush]

“……but when we tried to go there and called them they were very aggressive

with us telling us to go away or they would call the police and complain

that we forced our way into their house, saying they had many friends in their local police and could cause us a lot of trouble.”

Ok, Martin,

I do have connections to speed up police reactions on this case.

If your wife is involved, then the things are becoming complicated,

which means a juvenile court case should be applied for by your

specialized lawyer.

Assumed you may need my help, please contact me directly.

[eggomaniac]

Martin,

While it's sad a couple of Posters oppined your wife could be involved, there have precadents. Kuffki's suggestion that your wife make a 'declaration' would clear that up without creating animosity, right?

[is the feud you have mentioned a dispute about how much sinsod was 'supposed' to be paid?]

While it's sometimes hard to believe, there are very bright and helpful denizens of TV. The more details you supply, the more likely those with intricate knowledge and experience in Thailand, might be able to solutions.

Very sad story indeed, and by the sound of things its all about money, which just shows family true colors.

As someone has already mentioned, i am also inclined to believe the mother(your wife ) is involved.

I was in a long term relationship with a Thai girl(lucky no baby) and 1 day i met the entire family, this was my last day with her.

You know the saying "apple does not fall far from the tree" if indeed family are a bunch of $^%^$, i do not think its worth sticking with the wife.

I would suggest you contact Interpol office in Thailand and with some help from Consular get them to act.

Your child was taken away from you without your permission and your knowledge-this is a kidnapping, irrespective of who has him(grandparents of cousins, etc)

They then made a demand for money-this is a clear case of extortion.

You will need to get your wife to prepare a declaration stating that she did not permit or authorised anyone to take away the baby and confirming the demand for money.

With all the documents visit Interpol office and get Consular involved, i am pretty sure with all the papers, they will have to act and rescue the baby.

In my opinion and knowledge, because baby was taken without permission, it is totally irrelevant if they relatives or not and as such are actually criminals.

I do wish you all the best and only wish i could offer more.

If you like i can put you in touch with my lawyer. She is very very well known with many "powerful" friends, perhaps she could be of assistance.

From what i know and have seen she is on board of a few corporations along with a few generals and people of a kind.

If you do like her details, please send me PM and i will forward info for you

[sjjmmi]

Hi Martin

Why wait 2 month's be 4 telling

[Blackmirage]

This is your child.

Don't listen to the TIT boys, go to the police station with a camera crew and walk past the desk sergeant and go upstairs to the bosses. They won't know what to do with cameras there.

Confront the first person with a load of scrambled egg on his shoulders and don't smile, be angry.

Contact the papers of your home country, they are loving bad stories about this place at the moment.

Same with the Consul or Embassey.

Thailand don't need bad press at the moment so go and kick some ass.

You want your child back? Don't do the smiley payey shit, show them up and make sure they know the world is watching.

Good luck

You could be talking to a con artist.... giving "him" advice is admirable, if he is telling the truth.. but honestly, if your child was kidnapped would you WASTE A SECOND blabbering on a weboard about it? How much credibility can anyone put with an anonymous audience. I HAVE MY SEVERE DOUBTS about this whole story. Show me the proof.... then I will be as empathetic as anyone... till then.... good luck "Martin!"

[Blackmirage]

Hi Martin

Why wait 2 month's be 4 telling

Good point... "Martin" could be some 14 year old fooling all of us. Have we actually seen this "Martin" on TV being interviewed by the legitimate press so we can judge for ourselves.

I think the whole story is a bunch of BS... no one with a brain in his head or ass goes looking for a kidnapped child on a webchat room!

Come on....