Warrant Of Arrest

[gouged]

All right. I have no one to blame but myself. Worked for a company teaching. Left them and went to Vietnam for a very nice job offer. Gave them no notice and did a midnight run. Left them on a bad note and was working for them under a fake uni document for the work permit. Made by them but I knew what was going on. They took the info to the police and there is now an outstanding warrant for my arrest for fraud. Am I likely to see jail time for this or just a fine and probation? No other offences anywhere in the world. My wife is there and must come back.

And please...the negative comments and bad lines are not appreciated. I know they will come because I did something stupid and many people love to hit others when they are down. PLease don't respond unless you might find it in you to offer advice to a guy who made a mistake.

[chonabot]

I would first contact a lawyer in Thailand, how did you come to hear about the warrant? I assume they must have contacted your wife in Los?

Ring around and try to find a recommended lawyer who may deal with such cases.

Sorry I couldn't offer more advice , I know what you mean by people loving it when others are down , everyone makes mistakes.

Good luck

[pnustedt]

I should imagine that, if you went back to Thailand, they would punish you some way, then deport and "black mark" you and you wouldn't be allowed in again.

So don't go back. You've nothing to gain.

[psi100]

Firstly you need to find out where the real source of the problem is. This may be difficult but not impossible. I would do as Chonabot suggests and get a good lawyer working for you.

Basically you have to make this right by:

a) Finding out how to appease whoever in the Company you upset. I would suggest swallowing your pride and begging profusely, this usually works

Clearing up the legal matters is also possible - from your comments you weren't the one to submit the false document someone did this on your behalf. There is a solution in there somewhere.

Don't despair - at some time or another we have ALL faced tough situations here and in most cases stupidity was the cause. I would start with the Company, if this is possible, simply by telling them you know you are wrong and asking for their forgiveness is a good start.

Good Luck!

[Indo-Siam]

I am not a lawyer, but I run a business service business, and I have access to assistance from a former Crime Supression Division policeman who now works as regular policeman at Lumpini. He is quite smart and resourceful, and can find out the status, without prejudiice - provided I pay him. Lets assume 3,000 baht to gain clarity of legal status.

Questions:

1. What was you Class of visa them, and when you next return (is wife really "wife"?)

2. Where is she?

3. Did you have a work permit and then simply walk off with it - in that case, you have another problem.

4. It is unlikely that former employer would waste time and effort to persecute you if you walked off - is there more to the story? Did they actively do something to harm you, or did they just report you vanished, and no longer employed - and then failure to return your work permit booklet would be the violation.

5. What is your actual status with respect to University degree?

6. The degree issue would only have been in relation to a work permit application. If they know it was faked, and if you have no real degree, you are probably toast for foreseeable future, for getting another work permit. So - what is your long-term plan here - you cannot work legally?

Indo-Siam

[Charlie]

Hi gouged,

To begin with, I feel very sorry for you. Now, some advice (if under English jurisprudence).

Assuming that (which you have said), a warrant of arrest has been directed to you, my

best advise is not to return in a hurry. but to find out more details/info first. The reasons are as follows:

1. By returning there, you may be arrested and charged for fraud.

2. You may be granted or not be granted bail. Under English law, you can, but in Los,

I am in position to answer that.

3. Assuming that you are prepared (bail or no bail), to stand trial, then the following scenario will happen :

A. If charged, found guilty, and convicted, then you can be fined, put in jail, or both.

Under English jurisprudence, the question of you paying a fine or going to jail is under the prerogative

of the magistrate or the judge, as the case may be. Of course, you can appeal..... and to do that

it may cost you a fortune. I can only assume that the legal system in Los, is more or less the same.....

more lenient, or more severe, I am in no position to comment.

B. I presume I have answered you inquiries to the best of my knowledge.

With best regards to you. Choke di nah, krap.

[bangkok-bob]

I would'nt worry about it, it not a though they'll have a swat team waiting for you at the airport when you arrive. Unless the cops are going to make money out of the deal they'll not put much effort in following up.

Good luck, and don't sweat it.

[Charlie]

Hi,

Typing error, done in a hurry.

Paragraph N0. 2. It should read as : I am " not " in a position to answer that.

Sorry for the typing mistake. In legal terms, ..... a comma, or a full stop, can mean otherwise.

Regards,

charlie

[gouged]

First of all i would like to say a big thanks to all of the responders. I was so worried about being further crucified for my stupidity. There are some really good people on here and I just wanted to say thanks. I will try to answer the questions as best I can.

I was on a non immigrant b when I left. I had left the country and came back on one to stay for the short time then off to my new job.

She is not legally my wife as it is not registered outside of the family.

I have no university degree. Have 2 years towards one but did not complete it.

I went back to the company and kissed their butts and they sent a letter to the police stating that they want to withdraw all charges. The problem is that the police went ahead and got all the info they need from my embassy. This is not a charge that can be withdrawn. It is a crime against the state and once in the hands of the crown it is finished for the complaintant.

Already have a lawyer but he has given me contradicting info. He says that if I come back I will be arrested and then wait to see a judge. Then I will get bail at 40000baht (I don't beleive this as I might not even get bail...and not for 40000) I must plead guilty as I signed the papers that went to the labour board stating I had a degree. I would not have been stupid enough to sign them in the first place but they were in the Thai language and I did not know. After I got the work permit the boss came to me and showed a degree from my home country with my name on it. He said 'You gotta give me 5oo baht for this as I had to pay for it out of my own pocket' I did and thats when I was fully aware of what they had done. Stupid mistake on my part. All I wanted was to stay in Thailand. I never thought it would come to this.

My options are this:

1 Go back to my home country...send for my wife and that is it. (I will miss Thailand and anyone who knows with passion the life there would not be able to do this.)

2 Go back to Thailand and take my medicine. I could get probation...a fine or up to 5 years in jail. (But at least I would be where I am happy and with a girl I have been with for 3 years. Without her I ain't much) And if, at the end, they blacklist me then all for nought.

3 Go back home, change my name and go back hoping for the best.

I cannot believe I put myself in this situation. I made my own bed and curse myself for it. Even if any of you do nothing more in responding...I am already thankful. Funny how small you feel when you have burned the only bridge that ever made you happy.

[opalhort]

Hi,

sorry for your problems, but I hope it is a lesson for you.

there is a statute of limitations for document forgery here in Thailand which I think is 5 years ?????? (pls can somebody confirm or correct this))

why not ask your "wife" to join you in Vietnam and you may even get a proper marriage abroad and return to Thailand once the statute of limitations has expired?

a new name would probably be very helpful.

good luck and in the future DON'T sign a paper you can't read!!

opalhort

[taxexile]

i am not a lawyer and am not trying to give advice, but to me, your best bet would be to return to your home country,change your name by deed poll,get a new passport, and return to thailand where you are happiest.

getting involved with the thai legal system may be an expensive gamble with no guarantee of a good outcome. a thai lawyer that you can trust may be able to advise you on that.

good luck

[huski]

there is a statute of limitations for document forgery here in Thailand which I think is 5 years ?????? (pls can somebody confirm or correct this))

Hopefully someone knows about the 5 years limitation or you can check on this. The problem is you may have a warrant and i'm not sure that will ever disappear. you might want to go through indo siam first who has the connection and find out exactly what is showing up on the computer in your name.

maybe you should go back to your country and send for your wife. get a new name/passport, and get married in your country. the whole time researching the facts of your case.

returning here right now will probably make it worse as the process is most likely to throw you in jail and then be deported/blacklisted forever.

3 Go back home, change my name and go back hoping for the best

door number 3 sounds like a plan, return in a few years with a new identity along with your wife having your changed name, maybe a real diploma also.

[gouged]

I was told the statute of limitations is 10 years. Again I am not sure...so many different stories going around. Where can I get HONEST info about what exactly is on the computer in my name? Who to trust? My wife has a 'friend' at the airport and he told me that at the end of last week there was nothing on my passport but it could change at any time. With APEC they got their hands full. But a call to the police station and the officer to whom the complaint was brought confirmed that a warrant had been issued.

Again what a great bunch of advice. I too have thought that the best plan was home, finish degree, send for wife and change name. But would it be first or last name? Makes sense to be the last but that would hurt my mother too much.

Learn a lesson freom my stupidity. I was in such a hurry to secure work to enable me to stay in Thailand that I signed documents without even knowing what they said. And I did not have my eyes open at all and probably elected to ignore some as well. Would have done anything to stay in this place but that now is my undoing.

Again... thanks to anyone who has tried to help

[Indo-Siam]

Gouged -

Again, I don't know your nationality, or how long ago you departed Thailand.

My gut feel is that is is probably possible to get you cleared with police and immigration - maybe with a bit of "compensation" for their trouble. For low-level offenses, there is pretty meager data interface between regular police, immigration, labor, revenue, etc. - even between neighboring police stations.

But - I am amost certain that you are screwed for life with respect to getting another work permit in Thailand - so helping you come here would not do you much good - you can't stay, and you would probably just end up working illegally, and then getting nicked again at some poiint. And then - as a repeat offender - you would get blacklisted for the remainder of your days.

So -it does not seem to make much sense to proceed with trying to straighten things up here.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

[taxexile]

if you change your name,you would probably have to change your last name.

never mind about hurting your mum! its your life. i'm sure she would understand.

[fox]

Yes, gouged, not coming back is the best and most sensible solution.

By coming back, you are taking a very high risk. Is it worth it ?

As an example, if a person has been covicted of a crime, his criminal

records will follow him (domestic & internationa) via "Interpol" if

the need arises. Do you get what I mean ?

To the question of changing your name...... Yes it may help you temporarily.

You first and original name will always remain in your home records. The records

will show all your original facts/information. Here again, if the authorites

wants to dig in..... then your original name will surface. Just my own opinion,

Los is not the place where I can live. The world is full of wonderful places.

Warm regards to you. Good luck.

[Guest IT Manager]

What about Kampuchea? No records, hardly any teachers. Maybe...

Good luck mate.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What is your nationality Gouged ?

[DaveYo]

Hi, from what I read from the beginning, this University also became co-conspiritors along with the scheme. By filing complaint charges against you, they sort of wiped off their feet, and of course they had to fork over some dough to keep themselves out of hot water.

Since you are in Vietnam, get your wife with you in Nam. Once you have her with you, get legally married and then go to whichever embassy is of your home country and petition for both of you to enter as man and wife.

If you go back to thailand, they obviously have a warrant out on you. They do check with immigrations periodically to find out if you have re-entered the country. You can also bet that immigrations has you on the hot list.

SO DON'T GO BACK. Do you have any idea what it is like in jail in Thailand. It is worst than ######. As of bail, yes they will give you bail, and it is not going to be cheap either. Also if you do go back and they get you they will take your passport away thus forcing you to stay and stand trial. If I were you, I would not go back until the University is also charged with the same offense as fraud and that such is officially filed in court. This way it is not one sided and all the weight being upon your shoulders. By the way the chances of this actually happening is slim to none. One way is for you to file counter-charges against them and force them to answer to it. One of your defenses is you cannot read or understand thai language, and if you have this copy with you make extra backup and any evidence you have against the university. Time to play dirty. They are doing it to you.

Going back to change your name and etc, requires very specific reasons. In doing so this might not work either if they simply roll the warrant over to your new name and background. You cannot escape fingerprints period.

If you are now out of the country, technically you only did paper employment vissa vissa fraud. Not anything really serious. It does tie up to the government when permit is issued but that is another matter since the University at same time also were culprits into this scheme.

So when one looks at this picture safe bet, 10 years statue of limitations, (I am not sure) but play it safe, provided they do not renew it 10 years later to keep the warrant alive. As for Thailand my friend consider those days of being there forever gone. DON'T EVER RETURN. It is now history. If you want to keep your freedom. Up to you.

Sure the mistake is costly, but at same token, why be stupid again and take the chance on them. Thailand comes down hard on foreigners period. My guess is they will not put out a worldwide warrant on you in this nature since it is a very low priority offense and not that highly important. You will be one of those on the bottom of the list.

So to Thailand, say Bon Voyage and adios amingos I am outta here. If you got stuff there, get your wife to pack it up and have it sent to someone other than you. Or they will know where you are at. Once that is done, then get her out of Thailand. She is standing by you.

Good Luck.

Daveyo

[Martin]

If you go down the 'change of name' route, and if your present surname is your father's surname, it might be an idea to suggest to your mother that you change to her maiden surname. She might find this not hurtful.

Good luck. There, but for the grace..............

[sabaijai]

About the statute of limitations, some countries suspend the limitations if you leave the country. As an example, back during the Indochina War days I decided not to respond to draft calls. My choice at the time was 1) go to jail for draft avoidance; 2) take asylum in Canada or Sweden; 3) file for Conscientious Objector status; 3) go underground (change my name, wash dishes for a living, etc).

I chose the CO route but had my CO not been granted my second choice would have been going underground in the US since the statute of limitations was only 5 years. My draft counselors at the time advised me not to go to Canada, etc, as the statute of limitations would have been suspended, that is, I would have always been subject to prosecution as soon as I stepped foot back on American soil.

Of course none of us then knew that Jimmy Carter would grant amnesty to all draft evaders in the late 70s.

Anyway, I'd look into the statute issue very carefully before you make a final decision. You might easily be able to live 'underground' in Thailand till the statute runs out. Or if the statute applies even if you live outside Thailand, then that would be obviously the safer route.

[huski]

Anyway, I'd look into the statute issue very carefully before you make a final decision. You might easily be able to live 'underground' in Thailand till the statute runs out.

what about re entering Thailand, he is currently in Vietnam. there could be something on THAI Immigration's computer showing a warrant right now.

how linked is the computer system used by the police to immigration's system? maybe someone knows reading this.

[DaveYo]

Huski, it is very well linked, trust me. Sabai, no chance to go into hiding. If you even suggest that and they catch him there he will be facing more charges than what he has now.

Consider this if one of Osama's boys got caught trying to hide in thailand, and this dude had money to burn more than you would ever think of having in your lifetime and still got caught, what makes you think someone who has a limited amount of resources will have to survive long term in thailand.

Why give this person the worst possible suggestions. He has his freedom now, so lets make sure he keeps his freedom. If he returns it is a sure bet he goes to the hilton there, and if he does not have bail money set aside and have at least 20K usa dollars set aside to fight the case he won't last 3 weeks in there. All foreigners go to the hilton the worst jail in thailand. If you don't believe me, check out that kid as to where he is at.

So if he is in Vietnam, keep your freedom friend and look for another paradise to spend your days at and don't do the same mistake twice.

Daveyo

[wildside]

I feel for you & am sorry that you are in this present unfortunate predicament. The best I can say is to look ahead now & forward to likely a different prospect and hopefully better future somewhere else than if you would return to LOS. As much as you love Thailand like many of us do, it certainly is not going to be the same if you lose your freedom to enjoy not only the country but also the company of your loved ones. It is not the end of the world if you have to live elsewhere and I would say anywhere is better than jail.

I have made stupid mistakes as well and found the next step is most crucial in determining happiness and success after a sad debacle, so ponder well my friend. If you decide to take a risk returning to LOS, I would advise that you do all the preparations possible both legally and financially beforehand to avoid prosecution. If you decide not to return, then you have the freedom to explore and experience other countries, culture and people where maybe you and your wife can live happily ever, after Thailand. It's not the end of the road but just a bend. Wish you well in any case!

[gouged]

first just another thanks. I am overwhelmed at the responses to a guy who essentially put himself in this mess. A great thanks to you all.

To Mr. IT....I am quite happy in Vietnam and could stay here. It is the wife that I am most in need of and missing. Also the thought of making a life with a girl that will want to return to her homeland to see her family on occasion. Something I will never be able to do if I run from this thing.

To the Doctor...I am a dual national. Canadian and English. Thus the thought of returning under a different name and Nationality.

To Dave...Yes the school are co-conspiritors. But I have no way of proving that they made the degree for me. My lawyer has told me that they made the complaint to the police stating that I supplied them with the documentation. I have no way of disproving it. Funny thing is that I am still chums with a few guys at the school. They are both working with fake documents supplied by the school. I would never hurt them to save my ass though. And yes, the school have forked over ALOT of dough to smooth things over for them. They even tried to recoup this loss when I approached them and apologized. Sorry, I don't have that kind of money. And My wife and I have dicussed the marriage and move to my country. Problem is she is in a high profile job that she loves and my finances, though not bad for my age, have been seriously depleted. Another funny thing is it was my embassy that made this charge possible. They forwarded the the info that the degree was a fake.

And I have no way to fight this. I signed the document, although in Thai, that says I have a degree. Can't plead stupidity on this one. Guilty is the only plea available to me. Great post, Dave. I appreciate it more than you know.

As for the hiding and other advice. While it is appreciated greatly, The last thing I want to do is compound this thing and make it worse unless there is a real good option that has a fairly low risk and doesn't stand to hurt others.

Wildside..Husky..sabaijai...your words are well heeded and appreciated. Sometimes I think it is better to just come back. It may sound stupid but this girl is a real good one. Been together 3 years and the happiest 3 years of my life. I may never have it again. So what if I go to jail for a year...I still might have just one more year like the last three.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Which Embassy blew the whistle ? Canada or the UK ? B A S T A R D S

[DaveYo]

DON'T RETURN TO THAILAND. You got dual passports. UK and Canadian. Make sure you get to keep them.

Get your GIRL. Thailand Immigrations and the Police know you are a love sick pup, and more than likely will try to return. Just get your girl out of there. If she wants to see her family no big deal for a one hour flight from Ho Chin Minh. Understand, and also they can come to visit you in Vietnam.

It is not the end of the world. Remember your finances are getting seriously depleted so you have to start doing your recovery now before you go broke. If I were you just in case for the worst case scenario, make sure you have money set aside for you and your wife to get a trip HOMEWARD BOUND TO EITHER UK OR CANADA.

Just don't go back to Thailand. They can wait for you for years. They are in no hurry to go after you but they also know sooner or later if you are stupid and so love sick, you will walk right up to them. Don't go back OK

If you need help talk to us expats here. Some of us expats are in Vietnam and I am sure they can help you rebuild your life in Nam. All you need to do is ask.

As of the Embassy blowing the whistle on you, they did not do it just because of you. They did it upon a request from the University to verify such documents, which the Embassy has no choice but to comply and wire out for information. It was the University who blew your cover when things got heated up. The Embassy does not press charges my friend if they find out differently. Problem now is that Embassy in Thailand got the spoof on you and with them having it makes your employment days in the Asia sector a bit harder.

So be cool, and let the dust settle down. Stay away from Thailand and build your life in Nam.

You talk you can handle the Hilton for a year. NO WAY. They will gang rape you and possibly even kill you and AIDS has no boundaries inside the Hilton. That is why very few foreigners survive pass three weeks. You have to know how to fight and defend yourself in there and have a military mind of toughness to make it for a year. Besides having to look over your shoulder constantly of who might be wanting to make a beeline for your cheeks and hole, or smacking behind your head to knock you out whether your awake or sleeping. Understand.

What is worst, if you don't know Thai speaking language or read Thai, you are double fuked cause you will not know what they are talking about around you or planning to do.

Like I said KEEP YOUR FREEDOM.

Daveyo

[fox]

Hi,

Very good advice from DaveYo. Listen to his good advice.

You will not be able to stand the mental & physical problems at the notorious Hilton. Enjoy your freedom. Life must go on. By going back, you have plenty to loose. And by not going back, you have plenty to gain.

Warm regards and good luck to you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I agree with Dave....don't think of returning to Thailand. Your Thai lady can visit Vietnam for up to 30 days without a visa.

[BKKstan]

Very sorry for your predicament!!First I have a question.Is it illegal to teach w/o a degree?

I would stay in Vietnam and bring my G/F-Wife there.Then I would try to find a way to get the warrant withdrawn if possible.

I would not give up my freedom or take any chances unless I was confident that the warrant was withdrawn.

Best of luck,Stan