A Society At War With Itself: Yes, That Is Thailand

[citizen33]

I feel Anupong's role in the current turmoil will be looked upon much more kindly than Suchinda, for his efforts in the early 90s, & those involved in the bloody crackdowns of the 70s.

This may be so and I know many will want to argue that this is because of the different political dynamics of the different events. Yet I cannot help thinking that if this prediction comes true, it will be partly because the lives of poor rural people are considered less valuable than the lives of middle-class students.

[MAJIC]

Judging from the leading peaceful countries, New Zealand and Iceland, it would seem the key to peacefullness is to be situated in a remote location with no bordering countries.

Indeed. Theres no disputing that.

What about the uk then

Thats the main point,even though the UK is an Island it has an open border system with the rest of Europe.

[thaiedward]

People have risen up against inequality from day one and you say that things should just go on the same. The rage that was shown in Bangkok did not come out of the air. It has festered for a long time.

That was funny Capealava. Thais don't rise up against inequality, they never have. They have been led to rise up against inequality though, not quite the same thing. From day one of the strategic plan of whoever orchestrated the move that time. Not quite the same thing, again.

The parents of the people you talk about taught them, their own children that it is bad to question and criticize since before they could walk... They don't start wars or take any action even unless they are lead to it. They had parents who deliberately suppressed self confidence, creativity and initiative in them without thinking, to make the children easy to handle and to protect them from dangers. The solution lies in changing what the poor Thais themselves don't want to change, imagine poor Thais teaching their children not to blindly accept what they say and do... What you think happened will not happen from the poor the next generation either because this generation of the poor still teach their children the same way

You are right that the rage that was shown in Bangkok did not come out of the air, I work at Central World so I was there and I heard it, it came out of loudspeakers at full blast. Burn, Burn, Burn and the crowds were cheering

You support that?

I appreciate your insightful post.

[eggomaniac]

Meanwhile, the conflict in Thailand can be attributed to the country's ineffective economic management, which has led to a disparity of income distribution and opportunity. As a result a significant number of people feel they have been unfairly treated or even victimised. The red-shirt movement thus arose as people in rural areas have been unfairly deprived of economic opportunities. It is not simply a question of economic failure or disadvantage, but a feeling of being unjustly treated over a long period of time. In comparison, during the financial crisis of 1997, when a large number of Thais were left unemployed, there was no social unrest because those affected didn't feel that they had been systematically treated unfairly; the crisis was the result of financial mismanagement that affected people across all social classes.

Okay, folks, this paragraph says it all, 100% correct; but looking at it from the wrong end of the elephant.Societies can, HAVE TO, do live peacefully with class distinctions. People adore Royalty, idolize entertainment stars, and respect success. It is corruption, Thaksin & Sondhi, and all the rest of them, with 'possible?' exception of Leekpai, which people cannot abide.

----------------

The conflict in Thailand can be attributed to Thailand's endemically flawed structure of government which leads to the seats of corruption being fought over in a nearly gang land style of politics. During 80 years of clashes, revolving constitutions and coups, the packets of 'stability' have appeared after a quick victory or a gang land style treaty or a combination of both. What is happening, now, in Thailand is a stalemate of sorts between 2 nearly equal forces who canNOT win the day and two divided forces who can not sit down and divvy up the pie, like in the past. eg:[you the PM, me the army, you the police, me the telecoms empire - though 'this' might? evolve at the autumn military promotions.which they would call democracy 555]

It is not simply a question of corruption, class differences become somehow more problematic under these conditions and both sides convince dupes that this is the core problem. The Yellows' , battle cry, of the leaders that is, is we must must protect the Elite from communism. The Red leaders, they want us in rice fields forever. However, the 'hidden' battle cry of the red AND yellow leaders is "I want a bigger fleet of yachts and private jets!"

Many are rejoicing that Thailand is back to ABnormal and this is the most dangerous thinking. The situation is MORE volatile now than B4 Songkran 2010. It seems like nobody will say the bad word, anymore, ELECTIONS. Nothing has gotten 'better'. Sondhi and Thaksin are still 'on the loose'. They GAVE the Red Team martyrs, for Vishnu's sake, what a mistake that was. [military strategy 101, page 12, section B, 'Don't give the enemy any martyrs']

There are logical plans which would bring about solutions, but there is only one small fishing line in that lake. [stability within weeks, fair elections within months, the filtering of CORRUPTION out of politics and Thailand as G30 Nation within years, The Joseph Plan] .

Without The Joseph Solution, very, very sadly Thailand will lining up with Burma and N Korea on the World Stage, OR breaking up into 3 countries.

Like, last year, when I warned of the strength and size of the coming Red Tide, I say again, predicting an event is NOT a desire, it IS a calculation.

Thais do NOT want to listen to foreigners. Google the influence on Thailand of A. the CIA, B. Marx. C. Mussolini D. the Japanese. E. the Chinese, F. Bowring, G. the French [8 letters have just been discovered in Thai archives that show Anne L really WAS very influential H.] and so on

Do People think the Privy Council was 'invented' in Thailand? One day it was 'Let's get one of those' 'Where shall we put it?' 'Let's see, right there between the warring Khana Ratsadon communist and fascist sects.'

[Perhaps if Thailand actually got rid of all of the foreign borrowed pieces of junk bits and pieces of western systems and came up with a Made In Thailand Design which 'worked' with the historically cultural and societal aspects of the Kingdom, they might have a chance.]

Sorry folks, talk long when 3 words can cover it all. corruption Thaksin Sondhi

70% of Thais know these 2 men are victims and drivers of the problem, and 95% of Thais would live happily with fair elections and the filtering out of corruption, combined with a Chamber of Sober Second Thought, as fail safe against the Tyranny of the Majority.

Read STUDY and weep >>>

November 29, 2005

- The Truth about Thaksin, Sondhi

The Nation: The Truth about Thaksin & Sondhi

b

[MikeyIdea]

People have risen up against inequality from day one and you say that things should just go on the same. The rage that was shown in Bangkok did not come out of the air. It has festered for a long time.

That was funny Capealava. Thais don't rise up against inequality, they never have. They have been led to rise up against inequality though, not quite the same thing. From day one of the strategic plan of whoever orchestrated the move that time. Not quite the same thing, again.

The parents of the people you talk about taught them, their own children that it is bad to question and criticize since before they could walk... They don't start wars or take any action even unless they are lead to it. They had parents who deliberately suppressed self confidence, creativity and initiative in them without thinking, to make the children easy to handle and to protect them from dangers. The solution lies in changing what the poor Thais themselves don't want to change, imagine poor Thais teaching their children not to blindly accept what they say and do... What you think happened will not happen from the poor the next generation either because this generation of the poor still teach their children the same way

You are right that the rage that was shown in Bangkok did not come out of the air, I work at Central World so I was there and I heard it, it came out of loudspeakers at full blast. Burn, Burn, Burn and the crowds were cheering

You support that?

I was there also --so my opinion is different than your. So be it. You are putting word in my mouth. I am out here. No use discussing the issue with you.

Perhaps your opinion is different because you did not understand what was said?...

I am mainly active in the family forum, you're very welcome to post questions about childrens learning there and I will be happy to advice. I'll give a hint: It's about role modelling

The materialistic gap between the rich and the poor in Thailand is decreasing but the effort of any government, good or bad, still can't keep up. Because... It's about that the middle class open their eyes and change their ways of teaching their children while the poor do not. It's about that the middle class sees the need to buy and read a book giving advice about how to bring up their kids but the poor don't. It's about that the middle class and Puujai baan in the home village don't protect their children from drowning by making them afraid of water any longer while many of the poor still do. It's about people wanting to adapt change. it's about the middle class setting the pace and the poor will have to adapt or be left behind.

Welcome to the Family and Children forum

Mikey

[IMA_FARANG]

Those of us who have been in Thailand for a while, or have lived there long enough to actually get involved with Thai society on other than the bar/sex tour/beach holiday/scuba diver level that many farangs and tourists only see, know what is really wrong with Thailand. It is not an "economic adjustment" or "reconcilation", it is a basic misalignment of the economic system in Thailand. As we all know, there are a few rich in control of the fate of very many poor. Thailand can be a prosperous and economically vibrant country, but only if it changes it's economic system.

The Thai economic system is based on a "top down" system....in which the profits from the economy go into the upper class first, then whatever is left over of the profits drift down to the classes below. This type of system, so beloved of the industialised west, assumes that the law and social structure of the country allows the benefits to drift down from the rich to the poor with no obstuction...so everyone benefits from the economic growth in the country.

Unfortunately, that isn't the way Thai society and law is organised. The government is not only too bloated, it is also corrupt and favors the wealthy who pay for their privaliges with bribes and patronage, and they are supported in that system both by custom and law.

What Thailand needs is a "bottom up" economic system...where the income goes into the lower classes first, and works it's way up to those above.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen soon. Sometines it nescessary to tear a system down, to rebuild, if that system isn't working. It might be time for that in Thailand. Of course, that means disruption. I hate to see that. But I don't believe that human beings are noble and enlightened by nature...you have to force them to learn to live for something than their own selfish interests.

I wish I coud say there were some intelligent and far-thinking individuals in the Thai government who realise that all Thais..and farngs living in Thailand also...were all in the same boat. We all float or think together...and I'm pessimistic enough to think we are going to sink. I hope not.

But either way, Thailand will survive. The future of Thailand is not with the high-so rich, or the foriegn investors...it is with the Issan farmer. Unfortunately, it may take a lot of troubles and disruption before that lesson is learned by all Thais. But it will happen, one way or the other. It's inevitable.

As the Chinese saying goes, "May you be cursed to live in exciting times".

Edited June 11, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[eggomaniac]

Those of us who have been in Thailand for a while, or have lived there long enough to actually get involved with Thai society on other than the bar/sex tour/beach holiday/scuba diver level that many farangs and tourists only see, know what is really wrong with Thailand. It is not an "economic adjustment" or "reconcilation", it is a basic misalignment of the economic system in Thailand. As we all know, there are a few rich in control of the fate of very many poor. Thailand can be a prosperous and economically vibrant country, but only if it changes it's economic system.

The Thai economic system is based on a "top down" system....in which the profits from the economy go into the upper class first, then whatever is left over of the profits drift down to the classes below. This type of system, so beloved of the industialised west, assumes that the law and social structure of the country allows the benefits to drift down from the rich to the poor with no obstuction...so everyone benefits from the economic growth in the country.

Unfortunately, that isn't the way Thai society and law is organised. The government is not only too bloated, it is also corrupt and favors the wealthy who pay for their privaliges with bribes and patronage, and they are supported in that system both by custom and law.

What Thailand needs is a "bottom up" economic system...where the income goes into the lower classes first, and works it's way up to those above.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen soon. Sometines it nescessary to tear a system down, to rebuild, if that system isn't working. It might be time for that in Thailand. Of course, that means disruption. I hate to see that. But I don't believe that human beings are noble and enlightened by nature...you have to force them to learn to live for something than their own selfish interests.

I wish I coud say there were some intelligent and far-thinking individuals in the Thai government who realise that all Thais..and farngs living in Thailand also...were all in the same boat. We all float or think together...and I'm pessimistic enough to think we are going to sink. I hope not.

But either way, Thailand will survive. The future of Thailand is not with the high-so rich, or the foriegn investors...it is with the Issan farmer. Unfortunately, it may take a lot of troubles and disruption before that lesson is learned by all Thais. But it will happen, one way or the other. It's inevitable.

As the Chinese saying goes, "May you be cursed to live in exciting times".

This Post is 100% accurate in my opinion.

This

Unfortunately, that isn't the way Thai society and law is organised. The government is not only too bloated, it is also corrupt and favors the wealthy who pay for their privaliges with bribes and patronage, and they are supported in that system both by custom and law.

What Thailand needs is a "bottom up" economic system...where the income goes into the lower classes first, and works it's way up to those above.

NAILS it to the wall.

People can and do live with class distinctions quite happily. They love to, en masse, idolise and hero worship. One small, but clear example, is are presently a bunch of men running around on fields, chasing a ball and getting paid millions.

The World has no problem with Billions of dollars being wrapped up in what? kick a ball!

HOWEVER, let one goal be counted from an undedected hand ball and watch the change of mood deteriorate!!!

Thailand Politics is a Western made, Western influenced pitch patch system where HAND BALLS are a built in part of the play! There is no referee.

Thailand NEEDS a system which has a built in watch dog, like The Joseph Solution provides!

[MikeyIdea]

Those of us who have been in Thailand for a while, or have lived there long enough to actually get involved with Thai society on other than the bar/sex tour/beach holiday/scuba diver level that many farangs and tourists only see, know what is really wrong with Thailand. It is not an "economic adjustment" or "reconcilation", it is a basic misalignment of the economic system in Thailand. As we all know, there are a few rich in control of the fate of very many poor. Thailand can be a prosperous and economically vibrant country, but only if it changes it's economic system.

The Thai economic system is based on a "top down" system....in which the profits from the economy go into the upper class first, then whatever is left over of the profits drift down to the classes below. This type of system, so beloved of the industialised west, assumes that the law and social structure of the country allows the benefits to drift down from the rich to the poor with no obstuction...so everyone benefits from the economic growth in the country.

Unfortunately, that isn't the way Thai society and law is organised. The government is not only too bloated, it is also corrupt and favors the wealthy who pay for their privaliges with bribes and patronage, and they are supported in that system both by custom and law.

What Thailand needs is a "bottom up" economic system...where the income goes into the lower classes first, and works it's way up to those above.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen soon. Sometines it nescessary to tear a system down, to rebuild, if that system isn't working. It might be time for that in Thailand. Of course, that means disruption. I hate to see that. But I don't believe that human beings are noble and enlightened by nature...you have to force them to learn to live for something than their own selfish interests.

I wish I coud say there were some intelligent and far-thinking individuals in the Thai government who realise that all Thais..and farngs living in Thailand also...were all in the same boat. We all float or think together...and I'm pessimistic enough to think we are going to sink. I hope not.

But either way, Thailand will survive. The future of Thailand is not with the high-so rich, or the foriegn investors...it is with the Issan farmer. Unfortunately, it may take a lot of troubles and disruption before that lesson is learned by all Thais. But it will happen, one way or the other. It's inevitable.

As the Chinese saying goes, "May you be cursed to live in exciting times".

Not bad at all, but I don't agree to all of it. I do certainly not believe in tearing down a system, timing is totally wrong. And I actually believe that introducing a bottom-up system is introducing a work around, at this stage anyway. Should we call it system or culture by the way? I consider the root cause of the problems culturally based not system based (please read my previous posts in this thread for explanation to that). Do I want to change the Thai culture? No. Do I think that foreigners should drive the change of culture? No. Who should do this? Thais and only Thais, at the pace they decide because it is their culture that is being upset

There are so many samples of countries around the world that has gone through what Thailand needs to go through. The change should be driven from the poor. That doesn’t yet happen in Thailand so should it be forced, bottom-up or up-down, or should we educate the poor and then let them do it? Should we do what the Americans did in Iraq? Tear down a whole system and give people who have been living under a dictatorship for a generation and have absolutely no idea how to run a democracy a toilet roll with something called constitution written on it, and then stand there like fools and wonder: Why don’t you cheer? We have liberated you. Don’t you understand? The most childish action during the whole last century, I hope that world leaders (read American) can learn from it and not repeat that mistake

Should we perhaps help the poor to see that they must change first? Should we perhaps help them to want to change? But the poor are the ones resisting change the most unfortunately, they want change but they don’t want to change how they bring up their children to always accept what they do without questioning

There are steps to everything in life, not following them will ultimately have the same effect as it has on a child trying to run before she can walk…

[elcent]

Judging from the leading peaceful countries, New Zealand and Iceland, it would seem the key to peacefullness is to be situated in a remote location with no bordering countries.

Indeed. Theres no disputing that.

What about the uk then

They got the tunnel to funnel - hatred!