What'S A University Degree Worth?

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

Hmmm,a lot, for I've heard anecdotal evidence that the MA(English) at a premier uni in Cmai teaches most of the course in Thai, as the MA candidates have difficulty understanding if taught in English.

haha - so funny and it would be so 'Thai' to say - 'why should we learn English in English - we are Thai'!

[ChiangMaiIB]

the education system is a joke everywhere

That is a ridiculous statement to say the least.

Have you ever been in a Wal-Mart?

The Thailand education system does have room for improvement but the same is true in FarangLand

Is the US educational system that effective? There is usually 3 options

1) come from a rich family and go Ivy League

2) start life with 50K debt

3) go to community college

US Students have consistently fallen behind other nations in math and science -

Degrees usually require 3 years of general and only 1 year of specific, so students have to continue with a masters degree (another 40K in debt) to specialize and secure a well paying job (which becomes a necessity instead of just a luxury because they already have 90K in debt)

Edited June 24, 2010 by ChiangMaiIB

[Blinky Bill]

the education system is a joke everywhere

That is a ridiculous statement to say the least.

Have you ever been in a Wal-Mart?

The Thailand education system does have room for improvement but the same is true in FarangLand

Is the US educational system that effective? There is usually 3 options

1) come from a rich family and go Ivy League

2) start life with 50K debt

3) go to community college

US Students have consistently fallen behind other nations in math and science -

Degrees usually require 3 years of general and only 1 year of specific, so students have to continue with a masters degree (another 40K in debt) to specialize and secure a well paying job (which becomes a necessity instead of just a luxury because they already have 90K in debt)

Agree with elektrified.

That's 2 out of 2, ChiangMaiIB. Good average, keep going.

[ChiangMaiIB]

the education system is a joke everywhere

That is a ridiculous statement to say the least.

Have you ever been in a Wal-Mart?

The Thailand education system does have room for improvement but the same is true in FarangLand

Is the US educational system that effective? There is usually 3 options

1) come from a rich family and go Ivy League

2) start life with 50K debt

3) go to community college

US Students have consistently fallen behind other nations in math and science -

Degrees usually require 3 years of general and only 1 year of specific, so students have to continue with a masters degree (another 40K in debt) to specialize and secure a well paying job (which becomes a necessity instead of just a luxury because they already have 90K in debt)

Agree with elektrified.

That's 2 out of 2, ChiangMaiIB. Good average, keep going.

I appreciate your view on my comment. I think I probably have a few more "winners" you havent included. Chang is a horrible drug.

I still stand by my comment, albeit short and crass.

I do believe there are reasonable arguements to support the claim that the United States Education System is broken and therefore has had an impact on Thailands model. The private schools in Thailand do to some extent mimic the the British/ American Ivy League System. It's elitist and serves as a channel for wealthy and influential families to give their children an upperhand, if not a direct path. The children are then shipped off to heavily touted western colleges and obtain an academic pedigree.

The capitalism (capitalization) of the private school market then defines a schools reputation by appearance and appearances of their teaching staff (representations of the model they are mimicking). Curriculum is supported by the ministry of education which does not mimick the Ivy League System and money wins out in parents "impression" of the school.

Many International schools have a three tiered system of hires - Thai, local expat, relocated expat

The Thai, by law, has limits on their salary in comparison to foreign staff. The local expat will often see housing allowance and flight allowance significantly lowered or omitted. The relocated expat, often "recruited" in an International Fair, will be given a fairer market value (TIT) salary with opportunity for negotiable perks.

Salaries for Local expats havent seen increases in nearly 10+ years. Tuition rises. Relocated "recruited" expats have seen increases. Is there a significant difference between the teaching abilities? There are several worthwile arguments that could be made for teachers that are familiar with culture/ customs/ country

Take a close look at the results of western educational systems. Review material from "No child left with a mind" - I mean "behind" and see if there is an "omission" of critical thinking and individual perception analysis (the ability to filter information and recognize/ discern subtle influence) - the average 5-6hr a day TV watcher knows plenty about an unlimited supply of subtle influence commercials. Professional teachers label it "teaching to the test"

Western education systems have also campaigned for more "digital classroom" practicum, meaning developing brains will be spending more time infront of a digital screen then just the TV/ Computer/ Video games/ Mobile phone they currently use. I havent seen any significant studies that chart the developing brain when it is subjected to a continous stream of input from a digital screen - my guess would be alterations to our environmentally tuned, genetically evolved organism.

The Thai ministry of education fosters a very thai-centered curriculum - play the ever so humbling "ask an american the name of a foreign capitol" game to see where the Thai's mimicked that "Thailand is in the center of the map" syndrome. The word Falang is a very nice manifestation of a nation-centric education

These issues are critical in western education models/practices and are firecely debated - meanwhile LOS keeps establishing a channel for their elite students while forming the capstone of a very nice hierarchical triangle.

Elite

Highly qualified

western credentialed staff

angelic white faced teachers

teachers with falsified/ weak papers

60 students in a govt school classroom

I believe the question of "What's a University Degree Worth in Thailand" can sustain a comment regarding the system(s) that the LOS is trying to mimic.

Education in LOS is used as a class enforcer (enabler) - a degree outside of Thailand will remain with higher worth as long as LOS continues its mae bpen rai view on mass education

Edited June 24, 2010 by ChiangMaiIB

[mogoso]

My godchild's mother spent $140,000 to send him to Vanderbilt to get a degree in Philosophy. Not a whole lot of jobs out there with that degree. He's a rapper, preforming in small local clubs, but he's happy and I guess that's really what life is about, doing what you enjoy.

His mom got a degree in English and got tired quickly of waiting tables, went back to school to get her Law degree, has made money but hates practicing law. His life is certainly more appealing.

[Berkshire]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

A Master's Degree in English from pretty much any university in America wouldn't amount to much in terms of finding a high paying job in the US. Christ, everyone knows that a degree in English is pretty useless in the states, where everyone speaks English. What decent job could it possibly qualify you for? Just curious though (and someone else may have already asked) but were these two friends of yours Thai or American? And what sort of job were they expecting to land with a degree in English?

My friends are Thai. Both landed jobs teaching English in Thai schools, but then decided they could do better in the U.S. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. One side note to this is that the woman, after getting a job in a library, had the opportunity to read a lot. She said she discovered that true Thai history is no where near what they teach in Thailand. lol

Thanks....and that really explains a lot (your friends being Thai, I mean). What were they thinking (in going to the US)? Americans with an English degree would have a difficult time finding a decent job in the US, let alone a non-native English speaker. So clearly, you can't blame the Thai educational system in this particular situation. It's like a Harvard grad with an English degree blaming Harvard because he can't get a job on Wall Street.