Thaksin Lawyer Slams Phony Thai Reconciliation

[webfact]

Thaksin lawyer slams 'phony' Thai reconciliation

TOKYO (AFP) -- A lawyer for exiled former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra Wednesday criticised Bangkok's reconciliation process as "phony", urging an independent probe into deaths during "Red Shirt" street protests.

"It is impossible to reconcile with political opponents who you jail pursuant to an emergency decree, using emergency legislation that is contrary to the rule of law," said the lawyer, Robert Amsterdam.

"The Thai government is doing everything to restrict their access to funds, to restrict their access to travel, to restrict their access to speak, so that this, if you excuse me, phony reconciliation can go on."

Amsterdam, one of at least seven lawyers representing Thaksin, called for reconciliation through an international tribunal and "something revolutionary called elections".

The Reds' rally was broken up on May 19 in an army crackdown on their vast camp in the heart of Bangkok. A series of violent clashes and the final military assault left 90 people dead and nearly 1,900 injured.

The government has defended the use of armed troops, saying they were only authorised to fire live ammunition as warning shots, in self-defence or against "terrorists" whom it accused of inciting the unrest.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has promised an impartial inquiry into the deaths, but the main opposition party has said it fears a "whitewash".

Bangkok has accused Thaksin of bankrolling the protests and inciting unrest, while a Thai court has approved an arrest warrant for the former telecoms tycoon -- ousted in a military coup in 2006 -- on terrorism charges.

Many of the top Red Shirt leaders are in jail.

Amsterdam, speaking at a Tokyo press conference, said he was visiting Japan because one of the victims was a Japanese journalist.

The Red Shirts were campaigning for elections they hoped would oust the government, which they view as undemocratic because it came to power with the backing of the army after a court ruling threw out the previous administration.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-06-23

[hammered]

I notice this paid propaganda activist in a display of even handedness also criticised the red leaders for calling for th burning of Bangkok, for threatening various people and then giving their addresses and for of course using war weaponry as shown and reported on various media as well as criticisng the government. Not.

Of course if he were to do so he may be taken a tad more seriously as would his acolytes on this board.

I notice he also as a human right activist roundly condemns the mass extra-judicial killing carried out under the watch of his current emplyer and so can be seen to really care about human rights and not just be a paid propagandist. Not......

Surely now is a time to criticise all the lunatics, liers, propogandists, murderers and facists on all sides. There are enough to go around. Reconcilliation aint going to happen at the end of a bunch of propaganda and revisionist history by anyone. All have to face up to their excesses and crimes and that includes Thaksin, th ered movmement, the PTP and their upcountry facist ammat as well as the yellows, the government etc etc

Reconcilliation only comes when all recognise their wrongdoing, admit to it and apologise for it. Anything else just results in extended feuds and hatreds

[otherstuff1957]

Meanwhile Noppadon is quoted in the BP as saying the Thaksin supports the Roadmap! I guess that logic and consistency is not required in RedShirtLand.

[ozzieman05]

And we expected him to say the truth

while being paid by Thaskin

How gulible does he think Thailand is

[rubl]

As a 'lawyer' Robert A. knows how to play with words. How to suggest rather than plainly say. Still he does use some strong language like "using emergency legislation that is contrary to the rule of law". Probably means he can be accused and brought to trial here?

The sentence "Amsterdam, speaking at a Tokyo press conference, said he was visiting Japan because one of the victims was a Japanese journalist." is plainly disgusting. It suggest an human interest I'm positive is not there.

Sorry TV, but lawyers should be *** (fill in as you feel is appropriate)

[wester]

International law does not stop at the borders of Thailand - Much to the chagrin of some.

Thailand does not receive the same level of support from the USA that Israel gets, so it cannot thumb its nose at the international community .

More blaming,.More generalizations. This non-substantive posturing with ad-hominem attacks betrays weakness. The longer this line is pursued, the surer there will be some kind of critical mistake that might undo you. Projection is a psychological term that comes to mind. I am not trying to attack anyone, I'm just saying when you approach issues in this emotional way it doesn't help you reach your objectives. When the emotional energy dissipates, people who chose this path usually find themselves in a bad corner with few choices.

The idea that Thaksin and Amstedam are somehow non-humans unworthy of the right to open their mouth amazingly doesn't seem to be flying very high outside the rarefied air in Bangkok.

When all is said and done these issues should rightfully be decided in an international court and not within protected chambers in Bangkok. as many seem to prefer.

If your position is sound, you should not have any problem whatsoever with this idea.

I don't think there will be an extended international hall pass for yellow shirt exceptionalism. And pretending that it will, instead of taking care of business, betrays the truer state of affairs and may be courting disaster. I am now old enough to know that the piper will be paid and the scales will re-balance eventually. The important thing is how all parties act and react in the meantime.

Compitent, clear headed rational, able governmnet dosen't result in bloodbaths and thus doesn't result in you finding yourself being publically lectured by a slimy attorney.

Instead of whining, why not file counter charges, or meet the charges head on and say confidently

"Sir, you don't have a case, but I accept your challenge and I will see you in court"

????

I can respect that a lot more than calling names and this endless litany of blaming and ad-hominems

The real international law is this:

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"

You should fear it because there are no exceptions.

Keep that in mind in relation to whatever position you chose to take and defend.

[frankman]

Just don't(!)

let this "lawyer" make too many headlines in the press,

with his lays.

That's what mr. red wants,

to brainwash all the poor people with no brain...  

Will he ever understand?

IT'S OVER! 

You are a man

without a motherland,

FOR GOOD!

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Competent, clear headed rational, able government doesn't result in bloodbaths

<snip>

Amen, brother.

.

[pedro01]

and let's not forget todays other classics from Bob...

Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's lawyer said "The real legitimate leader of the Thai people happens to be Dr.Thaksin." /via RT @Nattha_tvthai

Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's lawyer said in a press conference "they made a serious mistake in calling him a terrorist." RT @Nattha_tvthai

[rubl]

International law does not stop at the borders of Thailand - Much to the chagrin of some.

Thailand does not receive the same level of support from the USA that Israel gets, so it cannot thumb its nose at the international community .

More blaming,.More generalizations. This non-substantive posturing with ad-hominem attacks betrays weakness. The longer this line is pursued, the surer there will be some kind of critical mistake that might undo you. Projection is a psychological term that comes to mind. I am not trying to attack anyone, I'm just saying when you approach issues in this emotional way it doesn't help you reach your objectives. When the emotional energy dissipates, people who chose this path usually find themselves in a bad corner with few choices.

The idea that Thaksin and Amstedam are somehow non-humans unworthy of the right to open their mouth amazingly doesn't seem to be flying very high outside the rarefied air in Bangkok.

When all is said and done these issues should rightfully be decided in an international court and not within protected chambers in Bangkok. as many seem to prefer.

If your position is sound, you should not have any problem whatsoever with this idea.

I don't think there will be an extended international hall pass for yellow shirt exceptionalism. And pretending that it will, instead of taking care of business, betrays the truer state of affairs and may be courting disaster. I am now old enough to know that the piper will be paid and the scales will re-balance eventually. The important thing is how all parties act and react in the meantime.

Compitent, clear headed rational, able governmnet dosen't result in bloodbaths and thus doesn't result in you finding yourself being publically lectured by a slimy attorney.

Instead of whining, why not file counter charges, or meet the charges head on and say confidently

"Sir, you don't have a case, but I accept your challenge and I will see you in court"

????

I can respect that a lot more than calling names and this endless litany of blaming and ad-hominems

The real international law is this:

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice"

You should fear it because there are no exceptions.

Keep that in mind in relation to whatever position you chose to take and defend.

Ah, what are you trying to say here in relation to the topic ?

Your first paragraph suggest that international law is not absolute, but related to how many friends you have. If so, there is no reason for Thailand to allow more than just some observers in ongoing investigations, preferably some who can speak and read Thai language. There is no obligation on Thailand to provide any court documents in another language unless non-Thai are involved (and maybe not even then).

With four or five replies on this topic I'm also surprised to read you lamenting "endless litany of blaming and ad-hominems".

Please give it another try.

[MikeOboe57]

A weasel for a weasel

If you want to know more about the lobbyist Robert Amsterdam, here is an interesting article about his campaign for the Russian businessman Mikhail Khodorkowsky. It is very revealing, that all the attempts of Mr. Amsterdam to portray his client as a "democrat" backfired.

Robert Amsterdam

Regards

EDIT: typo

Edited June 23, 2010 by MikeOboe57

[siampolee]

Any comments that fall from the mouth of Robert Amsterdam should be treated with the contempt they deserve, his claims concerning his qualifications have been called into question far more than once.

Like Thaksin, Amsterdam is a born again liar and a scheming conniving rabble rouser motivated like all of his kind by the ''What's in it for me '' motive.

[Insight]

Abhisit slams Thaksin's phony lawyer...

... would be a nice headline to read tmw.

[george]

Fun classified ad on notthenation.com:

MISSING

Basic knowledge about client’s past statements and actions, recent Thai history and complex political situation. Urgently email [email protected]

Source: http://www.notthenation.com

[animatic]

Same old BS from the paid shill.

I don't give a hampsterdamned what Bobby says

[givenall]

Meanwhile Noppadon is quoted in the BP as saying the Thaksin supports the Roadmap! I guess that logic and consistency is not required in RedShirtLand.

[simon43]

Whilst I take everything that this lawyer says with a big pinch of salt, the same applies to the statements by Khun Mark and Thai government spokespersons.

No-one is telling the truth here. Both sides have selfish agendas and neither of them are for the good of Thailand.

Simon

[TallForeigner]

...Still he does use some strong language like "using emergency legislation that is contrary to the rule of law"...

Well then, let's see what the international law has to say here. You find it in the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (‘ICCPR’), which Thailand has ratified and is therefore legally binding.

According to ICCPR there are quite clearly defined reasons for running a country under a set of Emergency laws that provide army and agencies like the CRES unchecked governmental powers that are more reminiscent of totalitarian regimes than a democracy. The reason for keeping the "Severe" Emergency in place because some people like Khun Suthep still perceive a vague threat while the PM internationally proclaims that the country is already "back to normal" is definitely in contradiction to International Law. Under Article 4, ICCPR, a state may declare a temporary state of emergency and suspend rights only if the emergency “threatens the life of the nation”. Not every disturbance or violent act creates this level of seriousness. The situation must be of such immediate and actual threat and magnitude that it threatens the physical integrity of the population, the political independence or the territorial integrity of the state, or the existence or basic functioning of institutions indispensable to protect and ensure rights recognized in the ICCPR.

This is a very stringent test.

Local and isolated law and order disturbances and/or perceived threats against the government that may arise, are clearly not enough.

Considering the ICCPR which is legally binding in Thailand, Robert Amsterdam is right: At present the use of the Emergency Legislation by the Thai government is indeed contrary to the rule of Law.

[rubl]

...Still he does use some strong language like "using emergency legislation that is contrary to the rule of law"...

Well then, let's see what the international law has to say here. You find it in the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (‘ICCPR’), which Thailand has ratified and is therefore legally binding.

According to ICCPR there are quite clearly defined reasons for running a country under a set of Emergency laws that provide army and agencies like the CRES unchecked governmental powers that are more reminiscent of totalitarian regimes than a democracy. The reason for keeping the "Severe" Emergency in place because some people like Khun Suthep still perceive a vague threat while the PM internationally proclaims that the country is already "back to normal" is definitely in contradiction to International Law. Under Article 4, ICCPR, a state may declare a temporary state of emergency and suspend rights only if the emergency “threatens the life of the nation”. Not every disturbance or violent act creates this level of seriousness. The situation must be of such immediate and actual threat and magnitude that it threatens the physical integrity of the population, the political independence or the territorial integrity of the state, or the existence or basic functioning of institutions indispensable to protect and ensure rights recognized in the ICCPR.

This is a very stringent test.

Local and isolated law and order disturbances and/or perceived threats against the government that may arise, are clearly not enough.

Considering the ICCPR which is legally binding in Thailand, Robert Amsterdam is right: At present the use of the Emergency Legislation by the Thai government is indeed contrary to the rule of Law.

I stand corrected, I think. I have some reading to do. No offense, but somehow I think the letter of the law and it's interpretation differs a bit in this case.

[asiawatcher]

Another pencil neck phony lawyer trying to justify extortionist rates to a fool willing to part with his money. Next....

[siampolee]

Just check out Robert Amsterdam's career and his crusade for despots and tyrants, all extremely wealthy and corrupt ruthless stop at nothing kill anyone who gets in their way creatures too. Thus they can pay his exorbitant lie fees. indeed he is a somewhat romantic character and the truth is indeed an elusive matter. A charlatan of the first order

Ever see a lawyer without a neck tie ?

Do you know why lawyers wear necktie's ?

So as their foreskins don't go over their head !!

Edited June 23, 2010 by siampolee

[hideki]

Amsterdam, one of at least seven lawyers representing Thaksin,

Thaksin's basketball team (includes 2 subs) with Morrie Amsterdam as point guard is reminiscent in their performance of the NBA's New Jersey Nets in their just completed 12 wins - 70 losses season.

[webfact]

FUGITIVE EX-PM

Thaksin lawyers launch PR attack against govt

By THE NATION, AGENCIES

Lawyers for fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra launched a concerted attack both locally and overseas against the government's reconciliation plan yesterday.

Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's legal adviser, yesterday accused the government of lacking sincerity over reconciliation because the hunt for "political rivals and enemies" was continuing, "false allegations" were being made and the state of emergency was still in place.

"The prime minister said he would not have any talks with terrorists and he was possibly referring to Thaksin, who was previously charged with terrorism. If he is really sincere about reconciliation, Thaksin and everybody else will be ready for talks," Noppadon told a press conference at the opposition Pheu Thai Party's headquarters.

In Tokyo yesterday, Thaksin's foreign lawyer Robert Amsterdam yesterday said the reconciliation process was "phoney".

"It is impossible to reconcile with political opponents who you jail pursuant to an emergency decree, using emergency legislation that is contrary to the rule of law," he said. "The Thai government is doing everything to restrict their access to funds, their access to travel, their access to speak, so that this, if you excuse me, phoney reconciliation can go on."

Amsterdam, one of at least seven lawyers representing Thaksin, called for reconciliation through an international tribunal and "something revolutionary called elections", Agence France-Presse reported.

Speaking at a press conference in Tokyo, Amsterdam said he was visiting Japan because one of those killed during the recent unrest in Bangkok was a Japanese journalist. He urged the Japanese government to support an investigation into the cause of the violence.

The London-based lawyer also said the Thai government should hold elections soon to prove it has the public mandate after the protests left 90 dead.

Amsterdam said the government's handling of the red-shirt protests showed it did not have the support of the people and feared the return of Thaksin, whom it has called a terrorist for allegedly fomenting the unrest.

The red-shirt movement's main demand during the rally was an early election.

"I think they made a serious mistake by calling him a terrorist," Amsterdam said. "I think they have reduced their chances of any country extraditing him," because of the possibility of a death penalty that the charges carry, the Associated Press reported.

"These people are scared of Thaksin. They are scared of someone elected by the people," he said. "The real legitimate leader of the Thai people happens to be Dr Thaksin."

At the Pheu Thai HQ yesterday, Noppadon also dismissed allegations by certain figures from the ruling Democrat Party that Thaksin had hired foreign lobbyists and lawyers to harm Thailand's reputation. "Thailand is like a car, which the opposition and the government take turns to drive. We will by no means break the car or puncture the tyres," he said.

Noppadon also rejected media reports that some red-shirt leaders were forming an underground army in a neighbouring country to fight against the government.

"If the government has evidence that Thaksin has an army in the neighbouring country, I will resign as his legal adviser immediately. But if no proof is found, I expect the Democrat Party to take responsibility by making a public apology," he said.

-- The Nation 2010-06-24

[LikeHeat]

I liked how "access to funds" was the first item on the list that Amsterdam provided. Imagine not being able to spend all of that hard earned riot money. Breaks my heart that they cannot use that money to create further trouble.

[JetsetBkk]

Whilst I take everything that this lawyer says with a big pinch of salt, the same applies to the statements by Khun Mark and Thai government spokespersons.

No-one is telling the truth here. Both sides have selfish agendas and neither of them are for the good of Thailand.

Simon

TV is virtually a yellows only zone nowadays, Simon. You are right, but don't expect many to agree with you.

[Insight]

Whilst I take everything that this lawyer says with a big pinch of salt, the same applies to the statements by Khun Mark and Thai government spokespersons.

No-one is telling the truth here. Both sides have selfish agendas and neither of them are for the good of Thailand.

Simon

TV is virtually a yellows only zone nowadays, Simon. You are right, but don't expect many to agree with you.

What do you mean by "yellow" ?

[hammered]

Whilst I take everything that this lawyer says with a big pinch of salt, the same applies to the statements by Khun Mark and Thai government spokespersons.

No-one is telling the truth here. Both sides have selfish agendas and neither of them are for the good of Thailand.

Simon

TV is virtually a yellows only zone nowadays, Simon. You are right, but don't expect many to agree with you.

What do you mean by "yellow" ?

It is red cult belief that if you are anti-red then you are yellow. Simplistic analysis linked to their hatred building single source indoctination techniques.

Most people seem to clearly be anti-red and anti-yellow, which to my thinking is a principled position as it doesnt mean supporting outrageous and unjustifiable actions, but each to their own

[eggomaniac]

Whenever I see 'reconciliation' it makes me think Thaksin and Sondhi are going to go back to being corrupt cronies, bed mates, filling each others' pockets with money instead of with dynamite! That is the last time there was 'conciliation' in Thailand.

Working on REconciliation only takes attention away from the other goal, getting back to ABnormal.

[hammered]

Whenever I see 'reconciliation' it makes me think Thaksin and Sondhi are going to go back to being corrupt cronies, bed mates, filling each others' pockets with money instead of with dynamite! That is the last time there was 'conciliation' in Thailand.

Working on REconciliation only takes attention away from the other goal, getting back to ABnormal.

In many ways reconcilliation is only about reconcilliation between the elite. The vast vast majority of ordinary p[eople have no problem getting along whatever their poltical persuasion. Good God right now its possible to sit down with abunch o drunken red supporters, yellow supporters and a bunch of all other kinds of persuasions and watch the world cup with everyone having a good time.

Trouble is those used to carving up the country are badly fallen out and that is why reconcilliation is talked about so much as they need to get back to filling each others pockets as you put it. There is another side tio it too and that is that the extremists of red and yellow will continue to try and wreck the harmony that inspite of their best efforts still exisits at "real" people level.

[SomTumTiger]

It is red cult belief that if you are anti-red then you are yellow. Simplistic analysis linked to their hatred building single source indoctination techniques.

Most people seem to clearly be anti-red and anti-yellow, which to my thinking is a principled position as it doesnt mean supporting outrageous and unjustifiable actions, but each to their own

Red cult - nailed it.