Buddhism And Hinduism

[Simon255]

I'm interested in how Buddhism and Hinduism kind of gel together in Thailand. I know strictly speaking Hinduism is not big here, but the dieties are very common around Bangkok and worshipped by Buddhists.

Does anyone know if there are any articles on the internet about this? Also, is there anywhere in Bangkok where I could find books written in English about the Hindu Dieties?

Thanks

Simon

[sabaijai]

I'm sure there is lots of information on this available in Thai. In English, I don't know of anything other than a few articles here and there about Brahman rituals commonly performed for state ceremonies. You could try inquiring from the Brahmanist priests at Deva Sathan in Bangkok.

[EastSaxCol]

Sorry

Edited June 27, 2005 by Happy Hammer

[Simon255]

Thank you Sabai Jai

[chonabot]

Buddhists do not recognise God or any godhead figures. Hindu deities are not recognised by Buddhists. You may have mistaken various forms of Buddha with a particular animal for a version of the Hindu God.

Buddhists and Hindu's share a few beliefs but the link is tenuous at best.

Try and get hold of " The Hutchinson Encyclopedia of Living Faiths" ( ISBN 1-85986-218-7) for an over view of Hinduism and Buddhism as well as a lot of other life-systems. I have completed a degree in World Religions and have spent years in Thailand and can see how this perception can be held.

hth

Chon

[Neeranam]

Hindu deities are not recognised by Buddhists

I know a lot, in fact most of my Thai friends who are Buddhist recognise Ganesh, Shiva and Parvati.

[chonabot]

Hindu deities are not recognised by Buddhists

I know a lot, in fact most of my Thai friends who are Buddhist recognise Ganesh, Shiva and Parvati.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that they worship these deities ? This is the point that the OP was questioning.

They do not, they may recognise Jesus Christ , but do not acknowledge them within the Buddhist system of beliefs.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-06-30 14:43:19)

QUOTE

Hindu deities are not recognised by Buddhists

I know a lot, in fact most of my Thai friends who are Buddhist recognise Ganesh, Shiva and Parvati.

Are you saying that they worship these deities ? This is the point that the OP was questioning.

They do not, they may recognise Jesus Christ , but do not acknowledge them within the Buddhist system of beliefs.

Worship, mmm, yes, I would say they do to a degree. I know some to have a Ganeshji shrine in their house. Many have pictures of Ganeshji. They give offerings to him and pray to him, as far as I know.

If they pass the Erawan Shrine, they will wai.

I guess one could say that this is not pure Buddhism, but they call themselves Buddhists 100%

[Simon255]

I know for fact that many Buddhists worship Hindu Dieties. I want to learn more about this. Chonabot - I have seen this so many times, I must disagree with you.

[chonabot]

I know for fact that many Buddhists worship Hindu Dieties.  I want to learn more about this.  Chonabot - I have seen this so many times, I must disagree with you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm , my wife who is a devout Buddhist agrees with me. If you read about Buddhism you will see that Buddha is a man , as all Buddha's before him were men. He reached enlightenment by meditation , not by worship. Buddhism differs from other life systems as there is no God or godhead to worship.

These are facts. But then again This is Thailand.

I may have to delve deeper.

[chonabot]

I had a quick look on google and this proves me wrong.

I stand corrected , books in the bin.

Buddhism in Thailand:

The Thai form of Buddhism is sometimes called Lankavamsa (meaning Singhalese or Sri Lankan lineage) because it was introduced to the 13th century Sukhothai Kingdom by monks from Sri Lanka. This form of Buddhism grew as the Sukhothai Kingdom expanded over Northern and Central Thailand.

However, Ayuthaya in central Thailand grew into a pwerful kingdom, and eventually annexed Sukhothai in 1376. The Thai Kings of Ayuthaya made conquests over areas of central Thailand formerly held by the Khmer Empire, which had been practicing a blend of Buddhism and Hinduism much more akin to Mahayana Buddhism than to the Sri Lankan form. The Ayuthaya kings incorporated many of these beliefs into the Buddhism they had inherited from Sukhothai. This has had a lasting effect on Thai Buddhism to this day.

TIT I guess

[amal2029]

I know for fact that many Buddhists worship Hindu Dieties.  I want to learn more about this.  Chonabot - I have seen this so many times, I must disagree with you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm , my wife who is a devout Buddhist agrees with me. If you read about Buddhism you will see that Buddha is a man , as all Buddha's before him were men. He reached enlightenment by meditation , not by worship. Buddhism differs from other life systems as there is no God or godhead to worship.

These are facts. But then again This is Thailand.

I may have to delve deeper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with u sir. I am Buddhist from Srilanka. I am not sure Buddhist belives in Thailand but over there we do not accept worshiping gods as its something no one can prove..

[amal2029]

I had a quick look on google and this proves me wrong.

I stand corrected , books in the bin.

Buddhism in Thailand:

The Thai form of Buddhism is sometimes called Lankavamsa (meaning Singhalese or Sri Lankan lineage) because it was introduced to the 13th century Sukhothai Kingdom by monks from Sri Lanka. This form of Buddhism grew as the Sukhothai Kingdom expanded over Northern and Central Thailand.

However, Ayuthaya in central Thailand grew into a pwerful kingdom, and eventually annexed Sukhothai in 1376. The Thai Kings of Ayuthaya made conquests over areas of central Thailand formerly held by the Khmer Empire, which had been practicing a blend of Buddhism and Hinduism much more akin to Mahayana Buddhism than to the Sri Lankan form. The Ayuthaya kings incorporated many of these beliefs into the Buddhism they had inherited from Sukhothai. This has had a lasting effect on Thai Buddhism to this day.

TIT I guess 

I am most grateful to you if u can give the goggle site . I read it once but cannot locate it again. I wonder why Thais call us Muslims or “Krake”. We have given them Buddhism but in return they labeled us as Muslims…    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[chonabot]

Hi Amal , heres the link to that site - Buddhism and Hinduism

As for the reason Thai's label Indians and Sri Lankans as " Krake " I would have to say it is sheer ignorance and racism which , unfortunately prevails in Thailand on every level. The word "Krake" or "Kaek" ( as you probably know) means "Guest" in Thai, but it is used to describe anyone with Indian/South Asian features, and used across the board. The Thais ignorance with Buddhism outside of their country is astonishing, particularly if you consider the fact that their version of Buddhism appears to be intrinsically involved with another South Asian religion ( Hinduism). As for labelling South Asians as Muslims, again I feel it is a lack of interest in Cultures outside their own. As you say, your nations gave Buddhism to the world and this is their thanks ?

Religion is complicated enough without this bigotry.

Peace

[WhiteShiva]

I had a quick look on google and this proves me wrong.

I stand corrected , books in the bin.

Buddhism in Thailand:

The Thai form of Buddhism is sometimes called Lankavamsa (meaning Singhalese or Sri Lankan lineage) because it was introduced to the 13th century Sukhothai Kingdom by monks from Sri Lanka. This form of Buddhism grew as the Sukhothai Kingdom expanded over Northern and Central Thailand.

However, Ayuthaya in central Thailand grew into a pwerful kingdom, and eventually annexed Sukhothai in 1376. The Thai Kings of Ayuthaya made conquests over areas of central Thailand formerly held by the Khmer Empire, which had been practicing a blend of Buddhism and Hinduism much more akin to Mahayana Buddhism than to the Sri Lankan form. The Ayuthaya kings incorporated many of these beliefs into the Buddhism they had inherited from Sukhothai. This has had a lasting effect on Thai Buddhism to this day.

TIT I guess 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just have a look at the deities around the World Trade Center (sorry - forgot the new name) in Bangkok. You have shrines dedicated to Ganesh, Erawan, not to mention all the multi-headed deities found in other shrines. For some reason the latest fashion around my place seems to be to place miniature zebras in the spirit houses .... (Still waiting for an explanation to that one).

Add to this the animist beliefs, lucky charms (amulets) , magic tattoos, etc, and one starts to realize that the everyday Thai version of Buddhism is probably nowhere near the original teachings of the Buddha.

Just don't tell a Thai.

Had an interesting discussion with the wife the other day about proper respect for Buddha images. I was (half jokingly) saying that even though people would get upset by (say) tourists showing disrespect to a Buddha image, the Buddha himself would probably not give a toss. Her reply was that the Buddha would get angry.

Which to me goes completely against what Buddhism stands for......

Try it yourself - ask a Thai Buddhist the following question: "What would make the Buddha angry?".

[chonabot]

Very good points , I believe the Thai version of Theravada Buddhism is nicknamed " Coca - Cola Buddhism " . It's not hard to see why this label has been assigned. I think to get proper answers , one would need to speak to the Monks or Abbot/Acharn in the Sangha as opposed to the Leity/Lay People.

The more I speak to my wife, the more confused I become.

[camerata]

I had a quick look on google and this proves me wrong.

I stand corrected , books in the bin.

The Thai Kings of Ayuthaya made conquests over areas of central Thailand formerly held by the Khmer Empire, which had been practicing a blend of Buddhism and Hinduism much more akin to Mahayana Buddhism than to the Sri Lankan form. The Ayuthaya kings incorporated many of these beliefs into the Buddhism they had inherited from Sukhothai. This has had a lasting effect on Thai Buddhism to this day.

Don't throw the books away just yet. This is pretty vague and the source is a Californian gift-shop web site! I read a couple of books on Buddhism in Thailand by Dr Kamala Tiyavanich and there's no mention of worshipping Hindu deities.

In the official and public practice of Buddhism (i.e. involving monks or in the temples) I don't see any worship of Hindu gods. On the other hand, Thais have always paid respect to various spirits or powerful supernatural entities (spirit houses etc) that aren't

related to Buddhism, although some people might assume they are. And there are other powerful entities which they might actually "worship" in the sense that they will ask the deity to grant a wish in exchange for some offering. I think Jao-mae Kuan-im, Rama V and the Erawan Shrine (Hindu) fall into this category.

I think there is a lot more Mahayana influence in Thai Buddhism than Hindu influence. Then again, in many countries Mahayana Buddhism is full of Hindu influences! Just take a look in any of the old temples around Nara, in Japan. They are chock full of Hindu deities that were incorporated into early Buddhism as "protectors of Buddhism."

[amal2029]

Very good points , I believe the Thai version of Theravada Buddhism is nicknamed " Coca - Cola Buddhism " . It's not hard to see why this label has been assigned. I think to get proper answers , one would need to speak to the Monks or Abbot/Acharn in the Sangha as opposed to the Leity/Lay People.

The more I speak to my wife, the more confused I become.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with u again. If u ask an average Thai person very basic questions regarding to Buddhism most of them are not be able to answer confidently. Just ask who are the parents of Buddha or where he was born etc…most of them are unable to answer. Buddha was born in India (its Nepal now) and as Thais think he must be a krake too. Because all Indians are Krake to them…Thais are very quite to this question

[camerata]

Add to this the animist beliefs, lucky charms (amulets) , magic tattoos, etc, and one starts to realize that the everyday Thai version of Buddhism is probably nowhere near the original teachings of the Buddha. 

There are two excellent books about Buddhism as it existed in Thailand in the 19th century and how it changed completely because of the threat of colonization and the government's centralization policies: The Buddha in the Jungle and Forest Recollections.

These books are a mine of information about Thailand's extraordinary forest meditation masters and how they taught dhamma to superstitious villagers. For example, villagers were often afraid of forest spirits or wild animals such as tigers. So a monk might live and sleep alone where the spirits/tigers were to show how practising dhamma protected him. Then he would teach the villagers how to meditate and give them amulets and mantras to use in conjunction with meditation.

These days, though, the monks are encouraged to study books and people get the amulets without the teachings.

[amal2029]

Hi Amal , heres the link to that site - Buddhism and Hinduism

As for the reason Thai's label Indians and Sri Lankans as " Krake " I would have to say it is sheer ignorance and racism which , unfortunately prevails in Thailand on every level. The word "Krake" or "Kaek" ( as you probably know) means "Guest" in Thai, but it is used to describe anyone with Indian/South Asian features, and used across the board. The Thais ignorance with Buddhism outside of their country is astonishing, particularly if you consider the fact that their version of Buddhism appears to be intrinsically involved with another South Asian religion ( Hinduism). As for labelling South Asians as Muslims, again I feel it is a lack of interest in Cultures outside their own. As you say, your nations gave Buddhism to the world and this is their thanks ?

Religion is complicated enough without this bigotry.

Peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank u very much for the website

Yes, my Thai friends try to explain me the word Krake in theory but I told them what my experience is far different to what they say. I am grateful to Thailand and Thai people for their hospitality but I am really pissed off whenever I meet a new Thai whom thinks that I am Muslim (because of my Indian look). How the H**l they judge my nationality and religion from my ugly face? Another thing is why westerns are refer as “Farang” but we Asians are “Krake” (or “Guest” as u mentioned) here………I am sure Thais will never answer this

[Neeranam]

There are two excellent books about Buddhism as it existed in Thailand in the 19th century and how it changed completely because of the threat of colonization and the government's centralization policies: The Buddha in the Jungle and Forest Recollections.

That's a coincedence, if there are such things , cause I spoke to a monk on the phone today who is at a forest type monastery near Udon, and he recommeded that book.

[Neeranam]

Thank u very much for the website 

Yes, my Thai friends try to explain me the word Krake in theory but I told them what my experience is far different to what they say. I am grateful to Thailand and Thai people for their hospitality but I am really pissed off whenever I meet a new Thai whom thinks that I am Muslim (because of my Indian look). How the H**l they judge my nationality and religion from my ugly face?  Another thing is why westerns are refer as “Farang” but we Asians are “Krake” (or “Guest” as u mentioned) here………I am sure Thais will never answer this 

I've never heard the word, "krake". Don't you mean "kaek"?

My wife is part Indian and gets called "Kaek", as does my daughter, although they say "kaek khao", meaning white Indian, or maybe more like Iranian or Middle Eastern.

Don't worry about it or take offense, they are only showing their ignorance.

many Thais say the word, "kaek" in a negative way now. Somewhat like the word, "jaek" which is a chinese person. This is a bit more negative though.

I used to say, "yes, kaek, just like Phra Poota Jao", but this will probably just cause offense so I am trying not to do it now.

I guess it's similar to some people saying Jesus and Mohammed were "kaek".

So, in fact "kaeks" gave probably 99% of the world's religions.

[Vendue2]

I agree with you, WhiteShiva. The Buddha taught non-attachment to everything - INCLUDING HIM. He taught that dieties cannot bring a person into enlightenment, as they themselves are not enlightened. Therefore, the only reason to worship a diety is to gain trivial pleasures that we should be trying to escape from.

I understand how Tibetan Buddhism incororates dieties into their practices as they do not worship them as outside entities. Rather, they see them as the potenial inside of us that we need to realize. I do not understand the Thai practices, however. Do monks teach people to worship dieties, or is it a a practice only engaged in by the laiety?

[greenwanderer108]

To understand Thai culture regarding Bhramin-Hindu influence as well as Buddhism, one must first indulge in the historical implications/connections.

If I understood correctly, Sidartha (Buddha as a prince) as well as Asoka (the great Indian ruler who had initiated the migration of Buddhism from India mainland to Sri Lanka..and on) were both initially educated Hindus prior to their enlightenment. Thus their beliefs and Brahmin-Hindu beliefs carried into Buddhism to some extent...i.e. reincarnation, karma, transcendental worlds/states, etc.

Not to mention Hindu is the oldest surviving religion aparently over 4000 years old. Thus, its spread into the Southeast Asian region outdates Buddhism (Islam as well) by far, whether refering to the Indonesian Hindu kingdoms, or mainland Funan (pre-Khmer). Thus Bhramin beliefs, practices, and culture has always served as a foundation for later Buddhist influence. In fact, you'll find that many ancient Khmer/Lavo (and perhaps even Dvarawati) style temples were initially Brahmin-Hindu temples designed specifically by Bhramin codes/formulas devoted to the Hindu dieties.

They all seem to be designed by the exact same code, whether in Lopburi, Phetchburi, Korat, or even Ankhor. I'm not sure what this particular style is called as I'm not too familiar with Bhramin spiritual beliefs, but you all known the pattern with the main spire in the center with three smaller shrine/pagodas surrounding it. Perhaps someone with a background can clarify this for me.

Anyway, as the Bhramin empire(s) were waning and Buddhism finally did spread into present day Thailand, these Hindu temples were transformed into Buddhist temples. Most Buddhist architechture is either directly influenced from such Bhramin codes or the Mon sects (which I'm not sure where these roots are but perhaps it could be Hindu as well)

In my eyes, Buddhism for Thailand is more of an identity factor for a majority of the lay-people. Just like the Monarchy isn't the absolute order of life, it still holds it's official nationalistic identity purposes for the Thais. And just like the monarchy, any in depth inquisition about the subject can draw offensive response.

[vasan_blr]

Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world. Vedas are the oldest scripts and no history for Hinduism. Also no history which says definitive number of years for Hinduism. There are many temples in India are more than 1000 years old. According to archeologists Hinduism exists more than 5000, from the scripts in the stones in Temples.

Hinduism follows basically three Gods by name Brahma is the Creator, Vishnu is the Saver and Shiva is the Destroyer. All other gods and woman goddess are other form the above three gods. All three are belonging to the Bharmam (Not Brahma) which is the holiness cannot not be seen by eye but exists. To attain Bharmam everyone should follow the above three god or other gods and goddess exist in the three forms Brahma/Shiva/Vishnu. In other way around Brahma sutra is the last philosophy one should understand after learning vedha (Rig, Sama, Yajur, Atharva - The Vedas are the most comprehensive and universal of all ancient scriptures) to reach Brammam so you will not have a rebirth again.

Though Brahma is a creator he is not worshiped widely by Hindus in India. Shiva and Vishnu are worshiped and here Hinduism splits. Shiva worshipers and Vishnu worshiper differ from each other others, and there were big wars for this in the History of Hinduism. Those who worship Shiva can be identified by wearing 3 ash lines (Viboodhi – Indian Lang) horizontally in the head with a red dot in it. Those who worship Vishnu can be identified by wearing three mud lines in foreheads vertical (Namam – Indian Lang), in the middle it is red and others white in color. If you visit a Shiva temple you will get a ash and flower Prasad (Holy thing offered by temple after prying a god), if you visit Vishnu temple you will be offered Holy basil leaves (Of course the same one comes in Tom-Yam/Thai curry some places. Especially when you order Kaprao-Kung you will get it with rice) and Camphor water. In Vishnu believers there are two groups basically 1. Vada Kalai 2 Then Kalai , only difference is drawing Namam the with a extra extension in the middle line down or not(It may be funny to read but there were wars for this small dispute).

One more thing is Hinduism is teaches simple Newton’s philosophy like “Every Action has a Reaction”. If you take a sward your life will be end by a sward – is a simple one. There is no Good or Bad Hindu. Weather you practice religion or not you are basically a Hindu. Don’t harm other livings in the world, that’s called Hindu Dharma.

Lot of freedom is in Hinduism, though you perform different spiritual rites you can reach god. The methods are different but goal is one. If you are not educated, and if you don’t know anything about Hinduism/Religion, by respecting and supporting your parents and your family you can still reach the god. Basically all the religion teaches the same.

Now comes to Buddhism, Vishnu has 9 Avathars (born 9 times in the earth in different appearance, 9th one is Budha. Read http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_a...sses/buddha.htm ). Basically Buddhism is part of Hinduism and one of the methods to reach the God. Prayers in the Wats are basically comes from Sanskrit/Bali language, the four Veda’s are written. King Ashok’s Son Mahinda and Daughter Sanghamitra spread Buddhism in South East Asian countries like Thailand, Combodia, etc(Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka ). Before Hinduism followed here, one strong evidence is Ankorwat in Combodia , a Vishnu temple. Rama also one of the Avathar of Lord Vishnu which is followed in the HRH King’s (Rama 1 to Rama -9) names in Thailand. My finding is, in Thailand Hinduism exists as part of Arts, but not part of religion. For example Ganesh (The son of Shiva) is the God for Knowledge; you can see him placed and worshiped in the Arts societies and Theaters. Mahabharata and Ramayana are two Indian Epic performed here in the form of Arts. Mahabharata is believed to be written by Ganesh narrated by Vayasha.

As per Manu Dharma (Manu Sharthra - is the law for Hindus, also in Thailand it is part of Thai Constitution and followed, Dharma is pronounced as Dhama in Thai.) Hindus love, respect and accept the entire human exist in the world same as Hindus. Basically Hindus also attain God by forgiving mistakes done by others. It is very open religion. Hinduism will never disappear, in the past more than 700 years (400 years from Muslims and 300 years from British) India suffered. Yoga and Meditation are methods to prepare your body and mind to be healthy to reach god. If you practice those you will less likely enjoy your physical pleasure like Drink/Smoke etc. you might more enjoy your intellectual happiness.

There is a Cente for Indian Studies in Thammasat University(Sanamluang Campus) sponcered by Indian community in Thailand, has many books about Hinduism in Thai/English.

[sabaijai]

Basically Buddhism is part of Hinduism and one of the methods to reach the God.

That is a Hindu notion that most Buddhists, whatever sect they're affiliated with, would not endorse.

Buddhism was a heresy against both Vedism (the performance of rituals as the way to salvation) and Brahmanism + Shaivism (the worship of celestial deities as the way to salvation). It is not a 'way to God'.

Also it's not correct to say Hinduism is 5000 years old, or even 2000 years old. First there was Vedism (worship of the Vedas), then later came Vaishnavism (worhsip of Vishnu), Brahmanism becoming a blanket term referring to both. No early texts used the term 'Hindu' or 'Hinduism', a term coined by the British during the relatively recent Raj era. What is today called 'Hinduism' actually references the merging, during medeival times, of Shaivism (worship of Shiva) with Brahmanism - not to mention many smaller Indian cults that arose independently of one another - and hence 'Hinduism' as a concept (even if you back-date the term before the British Raj) encompasses Vedism, Brahmanism and Shaivism at the very least.

"One often hears it said that the Buddha was born, lived and died as a Hindu or that he tried to reform Hinduism or that Buddhism is just a sect of Hinduism. Before commenting on these claims some clarification is necessary. What today is called Hinduism is the result of centuries of evolution by numerous divergent spiritual movements within India. So varied and different are the various expressions of Hinduism that virtually the only factor they have in common is that they all originated in India, hence the name Hinduism which means 'the belief of Indians'. Being so dynamic and fluid it is true to say that what today is called Hinduism simply did not exist at the time of the Buddha. The main religion at that time was Brahmanism, the worship of the gods mentioned in the Vedas through sacrifices and rituals. The Buddha was highly critical of Brahmanism. While he accepted the existence of the Vedic gods he denied their superiority over man. He disputed the authority of the Vedic scriptures, he severely criticised the brahmin priests and the caste system in general. The brahmin priests for their part condemned the Buddha as the worst type of heretic. Very clearly the Buddha did not perceive himself, nor was he perceived by others as being a part of the prevailing religion."

from Buddhism & Hinduism

"We cannot use the word Hinduism for pre-Puranic Brahmanism of the Vedic and Upanishadic age, though medieval Hinduism is based to some extent on the Vedic religion, just as Judaism before the birth of Jesus Christ cannot be properly called Christianity though Christianity is founded on pre-Christian Judaism."

from Relationship between Hinduism and Buddhism

[vasan_blr]

Basically Buddhism is part of Hinduism and one of the methods to reach the God.

That is a Hindu notion that most Buddhists, whatever sect they're affiliated with, would not endorse.

Buddhism was a heresy against both Vedism (the performance of rituals as the way to salvation) and Brahmanism + Shaivism (the worship of celestial deities as the way to salvation). It is not a 'way to God'.

"We cannot use the word Hinduism for pre-Puranic Brahmanism of the Vedic and Upanishadic age, though medieval Hinduism is based to some extent on the Vedic religion, just as Judaism before the birth of Jesus Christ cannot be properly called Christianity though Christianity is founded on pre-Christian Judaism."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the new concepts, I will try to read and understand what you have said. You have read something different and i have read something different in our books. I hope many had aruged before about this and we cannot come out with a definite solution. If any ones argument does not shed blood in any soil i am happy. I am not claiming Hinduism is great. I mean to say Hinduism is a free religion and way of life. Though Bhraminism is not accepted in Buddism in Thailand, It goes in the same track in India, it is difficult to differentiate. I hate religious extremism in any form. For example in Srilanka, basic conflict is agian in te form of religion(Singalese Buddists and Tamil Hindus). As long as you or me pratice our beliefs at home and discuss in a healthy way outside it is fine.

[greenwanderer108]

Basically Buddhism is part of Hinduism and one of the methods to reach the God.

That is a Hindu notion that most Buddhists, whatever sect they're affiliated with, would not endorse.

Buddhism was a heresy against both Vedism (the performance of rituals as the way to salvation) and Brahmanism + Shaivism (the worship of celestial deities as the way to salvation). It is not a 'way to God'.

Also it's not correct to say Hinduism is 5000 years old, or even 2000 years old. First there was Vedism (worship of the Vedas), then later came Vaishnavism (worhsip of Vishnu), Brahmanism becoming a blanket term referring to both. No early texts used the term 'Hindu' or 'Hinduism', a term coined by the British during the relatively recent Raj era. What is today called 'Hinduism' actually references the merging, during medeival times, of Shaivism (worship of Shiva) with Brahmanism - not to mention many smaller Indian cults that arose independently of one another - and hence 'Hinduism' as a concept (even if you back-date the term before the British Raj) encompasses Vedism, Brahmanism and Shaivism at the very least.

"One often hears it said that the Buddha was born, lived and died as a Hindu or that he tried to reform Hinduism or that Buddhism is just a sect of Hinduism. Before commenting on these claims some clarification is necessary. What today is called Hinduism is the result of centuries of evolution by numerous divergent spiritual movements within India. So varied and different are the various expressions of Hinduism that virtually the only factor they have in common is that they all originated in India, hence the name Hinduism which means 'the belief of Indians'. Being so dynamic and fluid it is true to say that what today is called Hinduism simply did not exist at the time of the Buddha. The main religion at that time was Brahmanism, the worship of the gods mentioned in the Vedas through sacrifices and rituals. The Buddha was highly critical of Brahmanism. While he accepted the existence of the Vedic gods he denied their superiority over man. He disputed the authority of the Vedic scriptures, he severely criticised the brahmin priests and the caste system in general. The brahmin priests for their part condemned the Buddha as the worst type of heretic. Very clearly the Buddha did not perceive himself, nor was he perceived by others as being a part of the prevailing religion."

from Buddhism & Hinduism

"We cannot use the word Hinduism for pre-Puranic Brahmanism of the Vedic and Upanishadic age, though medieval Hinduism is based to some extent on the Vedic religion, just as Judaism before the birth of Jesus Christ cannot be properly called Christianity though Christianity is founded on pre-Christian Judaism."

from Relationship between Hinduism and Buddhism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks vasan blr and sabaijai. That puts some light on the situation. I had no clue that Hinduism was coined by a British colonist...hmmm

So then, what about the astrological, time keeping practices? Which sect are these derived from? i.e. Lunar months and 100 year calender. Certainly the 'hindu' sects use a similar if not the same lunar calendar. Is this Bhrama sect? Then, again the chinese have their own ancient lunar system...so which predates which...? Confused now...

[Neeranam]

In my eyes, Buddhism for Thailand is more of an identity factor for a majority of the lay-people. Just like the Monarchy isn't the absolute order of life, it still holds it's official nationalistic identity purposes for the Thais. And just like the monarchy, any in depth inquisition about the subject can draw offensive response.

Very true.