I'M About To Buy A Property And The Farang Owner Doesn'T Even Know It'S Being Sold!

[Livinginexile]

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.

Correct!

Any receipts for the house are not worth the paper they are written on in this case.

Any civil action in this regard would be between the seller and the claimant.

The buyer is legally perfectly safe as long as the purchasing contract covers all assets on the land.

No problem

Edited July 8, 2010 by Livinginexile

[Murgatroyd]

No Problem until the "Boyfriend/Butterfly" turns out to know some extremely unpleasant people to whom legal niceties mean nothing... People who are unrestrained by the rule of law, (which doesn't much care about disputes between farang), and can be hired to commit crimes like arson and even murder for a comparitive pittance... (comparitive to the costs of taking the matter to the courts and hiring expensive lawyers that is).

Legally the purchase might stand up.

Morally it's very dodgy, and reeks of bad karma.

Functionally, you may be digging your own grave.

[CrossBones]

hack her right down on the price mate... wait and wait.. hopefully when her farang is about to come home you can get a really good deal. But keep her waiting so she doesnt look for other buyers.

dont forget to change the locks!

[SpoliaOpima]

It's never been unclear to me, as I said if it's in her name it's hers to sell.

If it's in his name she's stuffed.

Not if they're married, in which case if she sells the house he is due 50% of the value if he contests the sale, under Thai law.

[Chunky1]

which has nothing to do with OP.

if they are still married there is no 50/50 everything is owned together which means one person can spend all of it.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Chunky1

[CDNinKS]

Click here

Pay particular attention to Item 5.

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.

I will lay this out for you. If I have receipts and the building permit in my name and I sign a sale agreement with you then how could I come back later and claim the house???? Why would you need the receipts???? Your proof of ownership is the sale agreement from me. Geez people this is not brain surgery here.

As to the house being on the Chanote, I may need to stand corrected on that one as I have only ever bought raw land and built houses on it. I never registered the house with the land dept. However, if and when we go to sell the land it is possible at that point that the land office might ask if there are now buildings on it.

[ukrules]

Click here

Pay particular attention to Item 5.

This is an interesting link. I guess the deifference here is the sale of the house so long as there is no 'Right of Superficies' registered in the foreigners name then you will be in the clear.

It would seem that the guy who bulldozed his house either had one of these superficies in his name or his girlfriend didn't act quickly enough to sell the house without the superficies transferring ownership in the process before he demolished it. Maybe this is why she wants a quick sale.

This will be one angry foreigner if it is the case. However so long as there is no superficies then you would appear to have the right to screw him out of his property. Personally I wouldn't do this as I know that people tend to get irrational if you appear to con them out of their property. This is one of the reasons why people end up floating face down in the river.

[astral]

Ask the seller for a photocopy of the Bai Chanote, then have a lawyer look it over

and advise you.

Who's name do you propose to register the property in?

[Chunky1]

Click here

Pay particular attention to Item 5.

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.

I will lay this out for you. If I have receipts and the building permit in my name and I sign a sale agreement with you then how could I come back later and claim the house???? Why would you need the receipts???? Your proof of ownership is the sale agreement from me. Geez people this is not brain surgery here.

As to the house being on the Chanote, I may need to stand corrected on that one as I have only ever bought raw land and built houses on it. I never registered the house with the land dept. However, if and when we go to sell the land it is possible at that point that the land office might ask if there are now buildings on it.

ok so u were wrong before, obviously as receipts are not a realistic legal tool. we aren't talking moo ban voodoo laws here.

[GuestHouse]

My wife and I bought a house under exactly the circumstances the OP describes, and like the OP predicts turned a nice profit.

Moreover, having bought one place under these circumstances we had two other Thai women offer us houses under similar circumstances.

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

I hope the same happens to you. Greedy people like you and your wife is whats wrong with Thailand. Forget legal, how about ethics?

Ethics, that's a county in the thouth of England isn't it?!

A twenty something Thai woman wants to sell a house that a 60 something Brit bought for her - The Chonote's in her name and he's no longer around (Though she had a young twenty something Thai boyfriend who seemed more eager to sell that she was.

hel_l, I don't know, maybe she worked hard doing onerous duty to earn the house.

[CDNinKS]

Any civil action in this regard would be between the seller and the claimant.

The buyer is legally perfectly safe as long as the purchasing contract covers all assets on the land.

Well if that is the case then I have a bridge for sale

Your statement may technically be true, but do you really want to be in the middle of this fight? The Farang returning to LOS and finding HIS house has been sold? He then takes the GF to court, and in the mean time there is a lien placed on YOUR property until the Thai courts settle it......could be years. Or lets say you are able to flip it before the farang gets back, now you are named in the suit as well......

Hey, I like a bargain as much as the next guy, but I am only advising caution here, as in Thailand there are enough things to go wrong in purchasing property that appears to be on the up and up, let alone one that is so obviously questionable.

Edited July 8, 2010 by CDNinKS

[Valdezugar]

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.

Correct!

Any receipts for the house are not worth the paper they are written on in this case.

Any civil action in this regard would be between the seller and the claimant.

The buyer is legally perfectly safe as long as the purchasing contract covers all assets on the land.

No problem

Mate, you may be able to purchase the property legally. But you know that you're helping some Thai lady fc-uk over her farang boyfriend. Farang claim Thais are unethical; and here you're actively helping to fortify that opinion. Not pointing a finger but this is not helping the Farang-Thai relations.

I hope this does not happen to you down the line.

[CDNinKS]

ok so u were wrong before, obviously as receipts are not a realistic legal tool. we aren't talking moo ban voodoo laws here.

I think I said "I MAY need to stand corrected"

These are not voodoo laws, they are the same in Canada (where I built 2 houses) Before those houses could be sold, a lien search was conducted to prove that I was the owner of the house and no one had any claims against it. The land was not in question as my (and the bank's) name was on the deed.

Did you know that (in Canada at least) that if I hire a roofer to shingle the roof and he gives me a total price inclusive of materials and I pay him for the job when finished but he never pays the shingle supplier for the shingles, who is on the hook for the bill? Yes, you guessed it, me........

[ukrules]

Did you know that (in Canada at least) that if I hire a roofer to shingle the roof and he gives me a total price inclusive of materials and I pay him for the job when finished but he never pays the shingle supplier for the shingles, who is on the hook for the bill? Yes, you guessed it, me........

I guess it comes down to who owns the goods in question and do they have the right to sell them. It's the same thing with cars in the UK, if someone sells a car which is on a hire purchase agreement the HP company will reposess it unless the loan is paid off in full - this happens all the time - people buy a used car only to find out that original seller didn't have the right to sell it, then they lose it altogether with no refund.

[CDNinKS]

I just re-read the OP.

I worry that she is trying to sell quickly before her "teerak" arrives back from England.

And so you should......

[astral]

You are wrong.

Under Thai law ownership is determined by the land deed and the farang cannot have his name on there.

Therefore he would have no claim in court.

This is the well known danger of buying property in your wife, or girlfriend's name.

[Farma]

THAILAND BUSINESS AND LEGAL GUIDE

CHAPTER 7

LAND, BUILDINGS AND CONDOMINIUMS

It should clear up some points.

http://bia.serverbox.net/011.html

[simon43]

The question that I'm interested to ask is:

How does a farang prove ownership of a house that has been built on a piece of land, (the land being owned by a Thai person)? Assuming there is no superfice/usufruct detailed on the land chanote, has the farang actually got any legal claim that the house is owned by him, even if his name is on the original building certificate?

Seems to me that if no usufrcut is registered on the chanote, then there is no legal claim at all, or at least, minimal options to demonstrate that ownership before the Thai GF sells the land and house that is constructed on that land.

If it ain't listed on the chanote with your name - then it ain't yours.....

Simon

[ukrules]

If it ain't listed on the chanote with your name - then it ain't yours.....

Here's the thread about the guy who demolished his house - all he needed was receipts, the Thai's involved attempted to stop him from doing this as they owned the land but this didn't work as he had the receipts :

Edited July 8, 2010 by ukrules

[Chunky1]

if it is her name only it doesnt matter if op buys or sells, the farang already has no rights to the property.

[Thakkar]

For all intents and purposes, the seller's farang BF is already screwed. If Khun Livinginexile does not aid and abet in the theft, someone else will.

[gregb]

Sorry to say, but once the sale is complete, the farang in question who funded the property house has no further claim against the property. He may be able to sue the Thai girlfriend for proceeds from the sale, but the OP has absolutely nothing to worry about. The sale is completely legitimate unless there is a registered claim against the chanote, and from the sounds of it there isn't one.

I say congratulations to the OP. We all want to win the lottery. Sounds like you did. To the poor farang who is going to be stiffed, better luck next time.

[473geo]

The guy has probably moved on......do people really get upset over a couple of mill baht house they never really owned?

[CDNinKS]

You are wrong.

Under Thai law ownership is determined by the land deed and the farang cannot have his name on there.

Therefore he would have no claim in court.

This is the well known danger of buying property in your wife, or girlfriend's name.

Who is wrong?

I certainly never said a farang can own LAND. I did say that my name (farang) does indeed appear on the Chanote that my Thai wife owns. I'm listed as having a Usfruct on the land. You are right, I would have no claim in court if she sells the land, I don't own it. However the new LAND owner would still be bound by the usfruct and I would still have the right of the "fruits of the land" (usfruct).

No one is arguing the fact that the Thai GF in the OP's case is fully in her right to sell the land, it is the buildings on that land that MIGHT pose a problem. I can only really comment on my situation, where I'm the owner of the house on my wife's land, which I have a usfruct on. As ukrules points out, if my wife sells the land I'm fully in my right to destroy the house.

I am waiting for the OP to post again after he actually sees and verifies the Chanote at the land office as to what/who is listed and if there are any encumbrances on the land (leases, usfructs, etc)

[buddy]

You're saying the lease on the house doesn't have his name on it?

I've seen your posts here before, so I'll assume it's true (almost too good to be true). What do you care if he returns from England? Punch him on the nose. He'll probably start crying, and run away..

If the Farang is from England and you punch him on the nose, I doubt very much he will cry and run away!

Beware!

[PattayaParent]

It's never been unclear to me, as I said if it's in her name it's hers to sell.

If it's in his name she's stuffed.

Not if they're married, in which case if she sells the house he is due 50% of the value if he contests the sale, under Thai law.

Read the OP, and also the requirement for Farangs married to Thais to sign a paper at the land office saying they have no interest in the property.

[PattayaParent]

Click here

Pay particular attention to Item 5.

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.

I will lay this out for you. If I have receipts and the building permit in my name and I sign a sale agreement with you then how could I come back later and claim the house???? Why would you need the receipts???? Your proof of ownership is the sale agreement from me. Geez people this is not brain surgery here.

As to the house being on the Chanote, I may need to stand corrected on that one as I have only ever bought raw land and built houses on it. I never registered the house with the land dept. However, if and when we go to sell the land it is possible at that point that the land office might ask if there are now buildings on it.

The link you provided does not say anything about ownership of a house being proven by production of receipts.

However you now seem to have corrected yourself with the reference to building permit and sale agreement.

It's a lot different than just having receipts isn't it?

[Thunderbird4ever]

>>I beleive it's customary for the Land Office to require a Farang married to a Thai lady to sign a declaration that the money used to purchase the house is not his and he has no interest in the equity of the house. Sort of stuffs the 50% again I guess.

That's not correct. It's about the land the the foreign spouse has to sign that the money came from the Thai person for the purchase of the land.The house can be a completely different entity falling under a 30 year lease, or one of those leases that you get the right to use the house until you die.

It might be a 30 year lease on the land that this woman have forgot about now if its some time ago since the couple bought the house. Lots of papers.. dreams coming true about finally getting a house.. everything looks perfect and set for a happy life.

For most Thai woman a lease like this will be just another piece of paper to sign on if buying a house . The seller might get herself a surprise then at the land department.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Thunderbird4ever

[Dakhar]

If they are married and the marriage is a registered marriage.... then even if the house is in her name, if the house was aquired while married, he has 50% equity of the house.

The spouse has no legal claim to the land, but he does to the equity.

As said before.... "I smell a rat."

Secondly, technically speaking, if they are married, I believe he has "signature" rights, meaning that he has to sign a document that allows the sell of the house. If he does not sign, she can not sell.... that said, I have been told this document is often times "over looked." TIT

Any takers on a 7.7 Million house on Ramkhamhaeng Road near Amway. Im willing to take 7 Million, buyer pays all taxes?????

If you read the OP the lady claims the Farang to be her boyfriend, so no 50% equity in the house there.

And second I beleive it's customary for the Land Office to require a Farang married to a Thai lady to sign a declaration that the money used to purchase the house is not his and he has no interest in the equity of the house. Sort of stuffs the 50% again I guess.

Never heard of signature rights in Thailand although it is the system used in Viet Nam.

Thais have some very "fluid" ideas of what constitutes a marriage and what a boy friend/girl friend is and it changes witht he wind. (if u lived her for any length of time, u will find that to be the case)

I'm in the middle of a divorce right now, and I am getting my equity back, and if I had taken her to court, according to my lawyer, I would actually get FULL equity on the property that she asked me to buy "While she was with the other man." I chose not to take her to court, and my equity will be applied to a "lump sum payment" for child support. (her idea and her request) I would have opted for the monthly payments, but she figures I am a "flight risk" which is far from the truth.

Any how, I am here to tell you, with experience, you can get your equity back. You may sign a document that says the money comes from her, but this does not mean you don't get half at the time of the divorce. (hate the subject really)

[evanson]

The question that I'm interested to ask is:

How does a farang prove ownership of a house that has been built on a piece of land, (the land being owned by a Thai person)? Assuming there is no superfice/usufruct detailed on the land chanote, has the farang actually got any legal claim that the house is owned by him, even if his name is on the original building certificate?

Seems to me that if no usufrcut is registered on the chanote, then there is no legal claim at all, or at least, minimal options to demonstrate that ownership before the Thai GF sells the land and house that is constructed on that land.

If it ain't listed on the chanote with your name - then it ain't yours.....

Simon

I was recently told by a lawyer friend that a farang man took his wife to court and even though his name wasn't on anything, he was awarded 50%.

The lawyer told me times are a changing.So don't just throw in the towel, get a decent lawyer.