How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

[albhol]

Hi to all mums and dads,

I was just wondering if going with my son (coming in 3 months) and my GF (we re not married) to the amphur would be enough to be the legal father AND to have 100% legal rights on my child?

Could somebody alsos indicate me the address of the amphur (Ratchada Sutthisan area)

Thanks a lot and sorry if you have already answered this question Mario

The child will be to young, so you will have to petition the court to legalise the child and get parental rights. With the mother cooperating it is not difficult, but the courts have a waiting time and it will cost money.

Is there a by the court confirmed legal father WITHOUT the legal rights to the child ?

- or in other words -

Is it enough to apply for legal fatherhood in court, or must also be confirmed custody to get parental rights ?

[Mario2008]

You must aso get custody, as a seperate item but mostimes dealt with at the same time.

The mother can deny you being the father, and a DNA check will sort that question out. If the court finds you are the legal father, next the mother can object to you having parental rights.

[albhol]

The court has already determined that I am the "legal father". In the Court judgment, however, the custody is not mentioned.

I am registered as the "legal father" by the amphöö, but the custody is not mentioned also.

I have asked several lawyers and also in the amphöö, each assured me, I have as a "legal father" the custody, even without explicit reference.

Still, I doubt the existing custody, because in European countries paternity and custody is disconnected.

Do I have the custody or not? Is there a conclusive explanation?

[Mario2008]

You better ask a lawyer how it works in practise. It might be the case that a court only rejects the parental rights if the mother explicitly objects to it.

Relevant articles are:

Book V of the Thai civil code: articles 1546 and following, especially section 1549. This article seems to suggest that the mother must object to it, otherwise you have automatically parental rights.

http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

[albhol]

Yes, it seems that I have custody, because the custody seems automatically connected to the legal fatherhood.

So it looks like there no disadvantage if the court not explicitly mentioned the custody...

...although I still doubt, should anyone find a hidden disadvantage... please let me know!

[Amaxster]

Hi,

Very interesting reading this thread. I wasn't expecting the process of legalizing my rights to my new born son to be so complicated ... but I guess I have been here long enough that I should have guessed otherwise.

Myself and the mother are not married but have been together for 5 years. We have been living in Chiang Mai for 2 years and our son was born here, he is now 5 months old. We have already registered his birth here in CM with my name as the father. Unfortunately I did not realize that on a recent trip back to her village to show off the baby my girlfriend also registered the child on the tabian baan for her parent's home in Loei.

This really complicates the issue for me as neither of us spend much time up-country (we live full time in a rental property in CM where my work is based).

1. If we were to go through the court process in Loei: Are the dates that you need to attend court or otherwise take action where you need to be there in person scheduled with much advance notice? ie. could we fly CM/Loei and back over the space of the 2-3 months of litigation in order to meet all our appointments without risking that we may be called into court the next day while we are on the wrong side of the country.

2. Can my son's place on the Loei tabian baan be revoked/replaced so that we can go through the legal process here in Chiang Mai? As I said we live in a rental property - I'm guessing that may be a problem?

3. I can't believe I would ever ask this ... but, might it just be easier, cheaper and less time-consuming to marry my girlfriend in a purely legal sense in order to get the rights to my son? (... oh joyous union 0.o)

[Mario2008]

1. That depends on the court. As the mother agrees there is no much court time involved. There might be one or two sessions with a social worker and one court appearence. Normally you should get appointment well in advance.

2. The child can be registered anywhere the mother wants, but you must get permission from the houseowner to register the child there. Many will not want that. Often people are registered at the house of family or friends. If you find one in CM that would be fine. I guess the process would take about 3 months, than the child can go back to the register in Loei.

3. That is a possibility. Cheaper it will not be, unless you only do the registration at the amphur and not the traditional wedding. The family will probably want a traditional ceremony, with photo's monks and party.

[Amaxster]

Thank you Mario,

I'm looking further into my options. My girlfriends's uncle is the head-man of the village where the child is currently registered, we're seeing if he may be able to get the social-workers to rubber stamp things so we just show up for the court day. Still need to find a competent, english speaking, but cheap lawyer in Muang Loei though.

[tysonrocky]

Hi Mario,my girlfriend is about to give birth in a month but I will not be there when the baby comes out… what steps do I need to take to be recognized as father,… the posts here suggest that once she goes into labor and gets to the hospital to sign my name, does that mean my name will be on the birth certificate?… the hospital is asking her for a copy of my passport, is that all they need? then what happens after that? we go to the amphur to register?

Thank you

[Mario2008]

The copy of the passport will be handy, as will be a translation of your names into Thai. As the Thai birth certificate is in Thai language only. With that the hospital will make sure your name is on in the hospital "birth certificate" which can be used to register the birth officially at the amphur. Many hospitals will do this for you.

This will however not make you the legal father, see the opening post. Unless you plan to get married with the mother in the near future, you will have to petition the Thai family court to be recognized as the father. (That will also give you the opportunity to stay in Thailand as the father of a Thai national).

[Cappy]

Mario,

any advice for recommendations for a Thai family lawyer with experience in these issues who is based in Chonburi / Pattaya?

What is the best process for finding a lawyer or should we just go to family court and see if they can recommend Someone?

thanks and regards,

cappy

[Mario2008]

I don't know of any lawyers in that area.

You coud contact isaanlawyers and see if they can recommend someone. Some say you can do it yourself (if you can speak and write Thai and the court officer is willing to help you).

It is not that difficult (so no fancy lawyer needed) if the mother agrees.

[Cappy]

ok, Thanks.

[chopin]

Hi

Has anyone any experience from a court process in the Nakorn si tammarat province? Recommend a lawyer?

Thanks

[chopin]

Mario,

Although my daughter is only 3, i will go straight to the to the amphur, with my gf and child, and make an attempt claiming fahterhood. For this, i want to be prepaired to explain exactly what i want, and of course submiting all the right documents.

What is the correct designation in thai of claiming the fatherhood? Eventually i expect to receive a document proving my fatherhood, what is the name of this document in thai?

I assume we need to submit a form, right? Does this form have a special code, like a "khor rohr"? Perhaps this form can be found on the net, so that we can have it prepared before going to the amphur?

We will bring passports, Id cards, birthcertificate. Something else?

I got the translation on some basic terminology, from member kriswillems:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/718559-legal-terms/

Thanks,

[JesseFrank]

A 10 year old child has the name of a foreigner as father on his birth certificate, but the father has never signed any documents and was never married to the mother.

I am not married to the mother, is it possible for me to become the legal father with parental rights, when both mother and child agree ?

[Mario2008]

Mario,

Although my daughter is only 3, i will go straight to the to the amphur, with my gf and child, and make an attempt claiming fahterhood. For this, i want to be prepaired to explain exactly what i want, and of course submiting all the right documents.

What is the correct designation in thai of claiming the fatherhood? Eventually i expect to receive a document proving my fatherhood, what is the name of this document in thai?

I assume we need to submit a form, right? Does this form have a special code, like a "khor rohr"? Perhaps this form can be found on the net, so that we can have it prepared before going to the amphur?

We will bring passports, Id cards, birthcertificate. Something else?

I got the translation on some basic terminology, from member kriswillems:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/718559-legal-terms/

Thanks,

Your wife should be able to communicate with the amphur. I'm not sure about the forms etc.

But be aware that granting it through the amphur at such age is very rare. It basically only happens up country, where every body knows each other and everyone is familiar with you and your child and the mother and than it is still rare.

if you go, take someone of standing with you, like the village headman, to vouch for your parenthood. it might make all the difference.

Translate your names in Thai or copy them from your work permit if you have one.

[Mario2008]

A 10 year old child has the name of a foreigner as father on his birth certificate, but the father has never signed any documents and was never married to the mother.

I am not married to the mother, is it possible for me to become the legal father with parental rights, when both mother and child agree ?

You can try it, but since there is already a name on the birth certificate they might be suspicious and tell you to go to court, where they very well might require a DNA test.

[mdotinc]

If I marry the mother of my child, than I don't need to go through the legitimization process, am I correct? It becomes mute/redundant?

[Mario2008]

If you marry the mother you automatically become the legal father of the child.

[DerekMarshall]

If you have to legitimise yourself as the father of a child through the courts how long does the process take?

Child is 7 months old, mother agrees to everything.

Thanks in advance.

[Mario2008]

If you have to legitimise yourself as the father of a child through the courts how long does the process take?

Child is 7 months old, mother agrees to everything.

Thanks in advance.

It depends a bit on the court you use, some have a bigger workload than others. Normally around 3 months is my understanding.

[DerekMarshall]

If you have to legitimise yourself as the father of a child through the courts how long does the process take?

Child is 7 months old, mother agrees to everything.

Thanks in advance.

It depends a bit on the court you use, some have a bigger workload than others. Normally around 3 months is my understanding.

Thank you kindly Mario, what documents will I need to take with me to the courts, am I correct in assuming they will have to be translated by an approved translator?

my Passport, My birth certificate, Daughters birth certificate, house book, gf´s birth certificate + ID card or passport and copies of these and possibly photos of me with daughter is what I am thinking...

Thanks in advance.

[Mario2008]

You file a petition with the court to be recognized as the legal father and all documents are of course in Thai. non-Thai documents will need to be translated into Thai, etc.

Most people use a lawyer, but some people with a good grasp of Thai have done it themselves with the help of a friendly court clerk. I advise to contact a lawyer or to go to the family court first and see if a friendly clerk is willing to help you. They will be able to tell you which documents you need.

[richy2201]

Just wondered if someone could clarify which court I should petition for gaining legal rights to my child (1 year old) as I am not married to my girlfriend and need to get this for obvious reasons. My daughter was born in Pattaya and also we got the birth certificate here however she (my daughter) is registered in the 'house' book at GFs family address in Bangkok.

I would be grateful for any TV member recommendation on suitable family lawyer (obviously through PM) as I have found a few lawyers in Patts and BKK though don't know how good they are. From doing research it appears around the 10-15k mark is the expected price for the lawyer to do this? I understand I can do it myself but would prefer a 'professional' take care of this for me.

Advice very much appreciated.

[Mario2008]

With the child being registered in BKK, you probably have to use the family court in BKK.

Can't recommend a lawyer in BKK. But if your gf agrees you don't need a hot shot as it really is straight forward and he just have to submit the paperwork and you and your gf have to appear a few times to talk with a social worker and next make an appearance in court.

[richy2201]

Thank you Mario, much appreciated.

[laolover88]

Can you clarify 2 points. Sorry if I have missed them

a. By 'registered' do you bean the birth registration or the 'tabian baan/house paper' registration?

b. What is the position regarding both parental rights, legitimacy and custody if parents who were married at the time of the childrens' birth subsequently divorce?..(Specific to this the parents father UK/mother Thai were married in the UK, the children were born in Thailand and divorce was processed in the UK courts)(Divorce was on grounds of 3year+ desertion. Mother could not be found!)

Many thanks

[Mario2008]

A. The court that has jurisdiction is the court for the area where the child is registered on the household book.

B. A Thai court might not recognize the UK-court decision, but will certainly take it into consideration.

A mother disappearing for such long time leaves little doubt that also the Thai court will award the father with the prime care of the children. The mother could only gain a few days a week or month.

But that is not to say that the court will not give her a voice in other things, like the schooling of the child and signing for a passport. Of course it would also mean the obligation to pay half of the educational and medical costs of the children.

[96tehtarp]

Mario2008,

I'm the father. I just want to check how I can prove it.

- I married the mother before the children were born.

- My name is stated as the father on the birth certificates as are my signatures.

Have I already legalized my parenthood and if so what documentation is required to prove it if it should ever be disputed by anyone. ie. airport officials etc. ?