Russian Conductor Charged With Child Sex Returns To Thailand

[Jingthing]

I can say that if I was innocent, or perhaps even more so, and I was in his shoes I cannot guarantee that I would have returned. Ones faith in a justice system only goes so far, especially if one has been arrested and 'named and shamed' already for something some one know they did not do.

Good on him that he has the cojones to do it however.

I agree. Shall I do a poll? For example, if you were innocent and accused of a heinous crime in Thailand and allowed to leave the country temporarily, would you return to face a trial?

Edited July 18, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

OK, I decided to do a poll on this topic.

For the sake of the poll, I went with the premise of innocence for the hypothetical question. However, regarding the case of the Russian, I have no opinion of whether he is innocent or not.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Jingthing

[webfact]

UPDATE

Russian maestro in Thai court on child sex charge

PATTAYA (AFP) -- Russian conductor Mikhail Pletnev appeared in court Monday in Thailand where he has been charged with r_ping a teenage boy.

Pletnev, artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra, dismissed speculation he might jump bail. He returned to Thailand over the weekend after being allowed to leave the country temporarily to attend a music festival in Macedonia.

"I have always stated that I will assist the police in every way I can with their enquiries into the allegations that have been made against me," Pletnev said in a statement to media outside the court in the resort town of Pattaya.

"I say again these allegations are not true," he said, adding that police had found no incriminating images on his computer.

The conductor and pianist was charged in early July with the r_pe of a 14-year-old boy in Pattaya, where he has a house.

He denies the charge, which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in jail, and was released after he posted 300,000 baht (9,300 dollars) bail.

The award-winning maestro was allowed by a Thai court to travel overseas after posting extra bail but is required to report back every 12 days.

"I have been asked to appear in the court in another 12 days. I wish to make it clear that I shall be here for that appointment," Pletnev said Monday. "I hope everyone now accepts that I am a man of honour and I am a man of my word."

Local child protection activists had voiced concern about whether the musician would ever return to Thailand.

Pletnev, 53, founded the Russian National Orchestra in 1990 just before the break-up of the Soviet Union and his arrest has sent shock waves through Russia's musical world.

He first shot to fame as a virtuoso pianist, winning the International Tchaikovsky Competition in 1978 at the age of 21.

He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

While in Macedonia this month Pletnev told a press conference that his arrest was a "set up".

"A big company wants to present me as a criminal, which I am not," he said, without elaborating.

The conductor was arrested after police began investigating allegations by the victim that he had been r_ped by a Thai man and procured on behalf of many foreigners.

The Thai man has been charged with trafficking, procurement and r_pe of underage boys.

Thailand is infamous for its flourishing prostitution and child sex trafficking.

It has made efforts to clean up its image and in 2008 expelled former glam rocker and convicted paedophile Gary Glitter to his native Britain after he had served nearly three years in a Vietnamese prison.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-07-19

[webfact]

CHILD SEX ABUSE

Russian pianist appears at Pattaya Court for child abuse case

PATTAYA: -- Russian pianist-composer Mikhail Pletnev appeared at a Pattaya court Monday in keeping with bail requirements imposed after he was charged with r_ping a minor.

Pletnev, one of Russia's most acclaimed musicians and a founder of the Russian National Orchestra, was allowed to leave Thailand on July 7 on condition that he return by Sunday to Pattaya where he faces charges of r_ping a 14-year-old Thai boy.

There had been much speculation that Pletnev, 53, would not return, after paying a 300,000-baht (9,375-dollar) bail and granted permission to leave the kingdom to conduct a concert in Macedonia.

"I hope everyone now accepts that I am a man of honour and that I am a man of my word," Pletnev said in a statement handed out to reporters at Pattaya District Court.

Pletnev reiterated his claim that he was innocent, and called on authorities and the press to refrain from speculating on his case.

"I ask that there is no further speculation on this case until the police investigation has been competed and the case concluded by court," the statement said.

He also denied media reports that the police had discovered pornographic material in his personal computer when they inspected his house in Pattaya on July 5, the day Pletnev was arrested.

Pletnev has been a part-time resident in Pattaya, a beach resort situated 100 kilometres south-east of Bangkok, for years.

Police sources said that one reason Pattaya District Court agreed to grant Pletnev permission to leave the country was his status as a property holder in the seaside city, which is notorious for its sleazy nightlife and prostitution scene.

Pletnev must next appear in court on July 30. No date has yet been set for his trial.

The Russian musician has been under investigation for child abuse by police and children's rights groups for months. A 14-year-old boy, a previous employee, was willing to testify that Pletnev abused him, police and child rights workers said.

"The police and my organisation have compiled strong evidence against him," said Supagon Noja, a spokesman for the Child Rights Protection Group in Chonburi province, where Pattaya is located.

"We are convinced that we can convict him," he added. If found guilty of r_ping a minor, Pletnev faces up to 20 years in jail.

-- The Nation 2010-07-19

[iko]

He had no choice - if he did not return, his career as a concert pianist would be over. No promoter in the world could sell the "Come see the fugitive pedo" in concert. He has to clear him name or try at the very least.

well Polanski (who raped a 12 years old girl in the u.s.) had no major problems in presenting himself as a great director and artist. Still, he raped a pre-teen. So, the "fugitive" pedo thing doesnt seem to be a so big problem.

[Jingthing]

Can someone speak to the nature of the charges in this case? I wonder about the use of the word rape. Are rape charges always pursued in Thailand when an adult molests such a young child, or is this a more severe category of charge that implies a violent "forced sex" assault? Of course child molest charges are serious enough, but the word rape really kicks it up a level. In the US, a 19 year having consensual sex with a 17 year old would in many cases be charged with (statutory) rape (the offense being sex with underaged). So that is why I am asking, to get to the root of the legal definition of rape in this case.

[iko]

Can someone speak to the nature of the charges in this case? I wonder about the use of the word rape. Are rape charges always pursued in Thailand when an adult molests such a young child, or is this a more severe category of charge that implies a violent "forced sex" assault? Of course child molest charges are serious enough, but the word rape really kicks it up a level. In the US, a 19 year having consensual sex with a 17 year old would in many cases be charged with (statutory) rape (the offense being sex with underaged). So that is why I am asking, to get to the root of the legal definition of rape in this case.

If i'm not wrong, by the thai law, rape is any sexual act with a minor who is 14 yo or younger. but i'm not positive on this.

[Wozzit]

Can someone speak to the nature of the charges in this case? I wonder about the use of the word rape. Are rape charges always pursued in Thailand when an adult molests such a young child, or is this a more severe category of charge that implies a violent "forced sex" assault? Of course child molest charges are serious enough, but the word rape really kicks it up a level. In the US, a 19 year having consensual sex with a 17 year old would in many cases be charged with (statutory) rape (the offense being sex with underaged). So that is why I am asking, to get to the root of the legal definition of rape in this case.

I cannot help with the legal definition here in Thailand. I do know however that the age of the boy who was allegedly molested was 14 - now 15. So he was definitely a minor. But if, as you point out, it was "rape" in the sense that most of us know it - i.e. forced sex - then I come back to the point I have made before. The offences took place, we are informed, in December and February ( I assume they have checked that the accused was actually in the country on those dates!) - yet the boy only went to the authorities in April. By that time any evidence of violence or even just sex would have disappeared. I therefore find it hard to believe there can have been any element of force involved. This is especially so when you consider either the boy or the internet shop owner has already admitted the two of them had sex at least 20 times.

Is anyone else on this thread angry at the representative of the NGO continuing to spread allegations against someone who has only been charged and not been found guilty of anything? Let's remember, this Khun Supagon stated very positively two weeks ago, "I'm very sure he won't come back to Thailand". Well, he came back. Did Khun Supagon apologise? Not that I have read. Instead, he/she is quoted in The Nation (see above) as saying today - "The police and my organisation have compiled strong evidence against him. We are convinced that we can convict him" This person should be publicly rebuked by a higher authority for such prejudicial comments.

[Jingthing]

Can someone speak to the nature of the charges in this case? I wonder about the use of the word rape. Are rape charges always pursued in Thailand when an adult molests such a young child, or is this a more severe category of charge that implies a violent "forced sex" assault? Of course child molest charges are serious enough, but the word rape really kicks it up a level. In the US, a 19 year having consensual sex with a 17 year old would in many cases be charged with (statutory) rape (the offense being sex with underaged). So that is why I am asking, to get to the root of the legal definition of rape in this case.

If i'm not wrong, by the thai law, rape is any sexual act with a minor who is 14 yo or younger. but i'm not positive on this.

Without a Thai lawyer we probably won't know. However, there is logic to the assertion that a younger age child is not legally capable of giving consent, so even if the adult felt that there was consent, that is irrelevant. Thus, rape. I find that argument weaker at later ages such as 17, but the law is the law. Which explains qualifiers in US law for example of calling it statutory rape. I had heard there are two levels of charges in Thailand for these crimes, depending on the age of the victim (younger of course being more severe), but I was wondering if there are even more levels (such as calling it rape or not). Edited July 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[Thai at Heart]

I would imagine the authorities are quite worried that he came back. They may be made to look essentially very stupid.

And I would presume that he has more than enough cash to pay for some very good lawyers.

I predict not guilty.

The hearsay of a pimp (who can always be accused of singing to save himself) and one of his employees is hardly very convincing. Unless they have some more damning evidence than this, I would imagine that he will be found NOT GUILTY.

Irrespective of whether he did it or not, someone who has a propensity for this type of thing is probably well prepared for some kind of accusation. Marching into his house with a warrant looks very nice for the cameras, but as yet it doesn't appear they don't have anything approaching anything like reliable evidence and the system will probably be made to look very stupid if at the end all they have is hearsay, and a report about something that was made three months after the event.

[Rimmer]

UPDATE

Russian Composer, accused of committing sex acts with a minor, appears in Pattaya Court

PATTAYA: -- The famous Russian Composer, Mr. Mikhail Pletnev, who is currently facing charges of committing sexual acts against a minor under the age of 15, appeared at the Pattaya Provincial Court on Monday Morning in accordance with his bail conditions which state he must report to the court every 12 days. He was released on 300,000 Baht Bail earlier this month so he could appear at a Russian Music Festival. There was speculation he would not return to Thailand but on Monday Morning, surrounded by Thai and International Press, he reported to the court as planned. He issued a statement in English and Russian to the gathered media and proceeded to read out the statement to the press. In response to the allegations made against him, the press release stated, “I say again, these allegations are not true. I also state, contrary to media reports, that during the Police search of my home, nothing connected with the allegations – no photographs or other visual material – was found in the computer.”

More on the story with pictures HERE

-- Pattaya One 2010-07-19

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Wozzit]

I would imagine the authorities are quite worried that he came back. They may be made to look essentially very stupid.

Irrespective of whether he did it or not, someone who has a propensity for this type of thing is probably well prepared for some kind of accusation. Marching into his house with a warrant looks very nice for the cameras, but as yet it doesn't appear they don't have anything approaching anything like reliable evidence and the system will probably be made to look very stupid if at the end all they have is hearsay, and a report about something that was made three months after the event.

It's interesting that initial reports stated the police found hundreds (or was it thousands?) of incriminating photos on his computer. Isn't that how most pedophiles are caught? They belong to some ring which circulates child pornography, the ringmaster is discovered and brings those in the network down with him. Yet today in his press release Mr Pletnev refutes what he claims are a number of miss-statements, one of which is that the police found nothing on his computer! So far I have not heard any official refute that statement. To me, that implies Mr Pletnev is almost certainly telling the truth.

I also agree the authorities must be worried about his return. Perhaps they never expected it in the first place, which is why he was given his passport back so quickly. I do not think anyone at first realised how famous he really is and how strongly he is connected to powerful people. The PDN even states that he has connections to the Thai Royal Family through the King's late sister HRH Princess Galyani Vadhana who asked him if some Thai musicians might be qualified to attend the Moscow Conservatoire.

Reportedly, he did audition several promising Thai musicians, for induction with the renowned Russian school, at the behest of Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana. Regrettably he was forced to inform Her Royal Highness that none of the musicians were of the required standard to be considered for admission into the prestigious institution.

If he had not come back, they could have patted themselves on the back and crowed: "We told you so. We're serious about pedophiles and another one has escaped the nest never to return". They could then have got down to the business to snagging lesser fry. But now they are stuck, since it appears Mr Pletnev is determined to fight this in order to clear his name. Whether he can do that in Thaiand's flaky judicial system, even with his wealth and a top defence team, I have no idea. But as Thai at Heart says, if they do not have some pretty strong evidence against him that we have not yet heard about, the authorities are going to look fools, not just in Thailand, but all around the world.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Wozzit

[Rucharee]

How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?

I am quite sure she was under age.

[Wozzit]

<br>How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?<br>I am quite sure she was under age.<br>

<br><br>Not too young when she was his wife, since they married when she was about 21. She did move into Graceland after she was 18. So that was all legal and above board. I think he met her when she was 14. So maybe there was some hanky-panky then. Seems like in Tennessee a girl can have consensual sex from age 13 provided the boy is not more than 4 years older than she is, unless that boy is her legal husband in which case he can be 90 and it's OK. But Elvis was 10 years older. So if it was proved she did have sex with him before she was 18, he could have gone to jail for a very long time.

[Alwaysright]

Well he's rather very naive or innocent. Let's see how this one plays out ???

:(Where there is smoke there is fire,he fits the profile. :( :( :( :(

[Alwaysright]

How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?

I am quite sure she was under age.

:blink:Elvis was getting plenty on the side,probably spent time with her for a sex free rest. :blink: :blink: :blink:

[Wozzit]

<br>

Well he's rather very naive or innocent. Let's see how this one plays out ???

:(Where there is smoke there is fire,he fits the profile.

Well perhaps you can tell us all - what is the profile? And whilst you're at it, why then did he come back to Thailand?

Edited July 19, 2010 by Wozzit

[Rucharee]

UPDATE

Russian Composer, accused of committing sex acts with a minor, appears in Pattaya Court

PATTAYA: -- The famous Russian Composer, Mr. Mikhail Pletnev, who is currently facing charges of committing sexual acts against a minor under the age of 15, appeared at the Pattaya Provincial Court on Monday Morning in accordance with his bail conditions which state he must report to the court every 12 days. He was released on 300,000 Baht Bail earlier this month so he could appear at a Russian Music Festival. There was speculation he would not return to Thailand but on Monday Morning, surrounded by Thai and International Press, he reported to the court as planned. He issued a statement in English and Russian to the gathered media and proceeded to read out the statement to the press. In response to the allegations made against him, the press release stated, "I say again, these allegations are not true. I also state, contrary to media reports, that during the Police search of my home, nothing connected with the allegations – no photographs or other visual material – was found in the computer."

More on the story with pictures HERE

-- Pattaya One 2010-07-19

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Is it an offense to say that the the Thai government official, especially those in charge of law enforcement, for telling lies?

[Wozzit]

Is it an offense to say that the the Thai government official, especially those in charge of law enforcement, for telling lies?

My guess is nowhere will we find anything officially in writing about what the officials said."Someone" (unknown) tipped off the media. The gullible media printed it. No-one bothered to check. If the statement that nothing was found on the computer is true, officials will deny that anyone ever said anything to the contrary. So no-one told lies! All part of Thai justice. String 'em up first and let's see what plays out!

Edited July 20, 2010 by Wozzit

[Rucharee]

Is it an offense to say that the the Thai government official, especially those in charge of law enforcement, for telling lies?

My guess is nowhere will we find anything officially in writing about what the officials said."Someone" (unknown) tipped off the media. The gullible media printed it. No-one bothered to check. If the statement that nothing was found on the computer is true, officials will deny that anyone ever said anything to the contrary. So no-one told lies! All part of Thai justice. String 'em up first and let's see what plays out!

Phone call in Thailand are all recorded by the service providers.

[Wozzit]

Phone call in Thailand are all recorded by the service providers.

I had no idea. Is that really true? ALL phone calls? Who on earth listens to them all?

[Jingthing]

How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?

I am quite sure she was under age.

The USA has 50 states, plus some territories. Each one has their own specific laws about age of consent, and of course minimum age for marriage. In general, the US Southern states tend to allow lower ages for this.

[slapout]

Phone call in Thailand are all recorded by the service providers.

I had no idea. Is that really true? ALL phone calls? Who on earth listens to them all?

Hope they listen to the wrong numbers made to my phone, the disconnects, the nothings (silence) etc. Someone has a lot more confidence in the communication system than I do. This must be another village rumor.

[Alwaysright]

<br>

Well he's rather very naive or innocent. Let's see how this one plays out ???

:(Where there is smoke there is fire,he fits the profile.

Well perhaps you can tell us all - what is the profile? And whilst you're at it, why then did he come back to Thailand?

Why did he come back?You have to ask him that.Profile: works with kids in Pattaya,pianist and looks.Many others but you should look up profiles it might help you.Profiling works except in the minds of liberals,and the guilty.I suspect a deal was made with governments,will have to follow up.If he walks something is fishy. :whistling: :whistling: .

[Jingthing]

Yeah lock up all the gay Russian famous pianists in town, just for being who they are. Probably only one of them though. Next ...

Edited July 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[moe666]

How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?

I am quite sure she was under age.

The USA has 50 states, plus some territories. Each one has their own specific laws about age of consent, and of course minimum age for marriage. In general, the US Southern states tend to allow lower ages for this.

And with the cousin.

[Jingthing]

How old was Elvis wife when they first have sex?

I am quite sure she was under age.

The USA has 50 states, plus some territories. Each one has their own specific laws about age of consent, and of course minimum age for marriage. In general, the US Southern states tend to allow lower ages for this.

And with the cousin.

Not to mention the pig.

[Wozzit]

Well perhaps you can tell us all - what is the profile? And whilst you're at it, why then did he come back to Thailand?

Why did he come back?You have to ask him that.Profile: works with kids in Pattaya,pianist and looks.Many others but you should look up profiles it might help you.Profiling works except in the minds of liberals,and the guilty.I suspect a deal was made with governments,will have to follow up.If he walks something is fishy. :whistling: :whistling: .

Who said he works with kids? He does not do any work in Thailand with kids or anyone else, does not run a music school and lives in Pattaya for only a few weeks a yea spread over 3 or 4 visits (see the Pattaya Post article). You seem to be confusing him with the internet cafe owner who worked with kids and is accused of running the pedophile ring. You also seem happy to believe everything you read and make judgements without considering facts. Well I reckon you are sometimes wrong.

[Rucharee]

Phone call in Thailand are all recorded by the service providers.

I had no idea. Is that really true? ALL phone calls? Who on earth listens to them all?

Hope they listen to the wrong numbers made to my phone, the disconnects, the nothings (silence) etc. Someone has a lot more confidence in the communication system than I do. This must be another village rumor.

Voice compression & storage is so cheap now. Yes, my neighbor works for an IT companies and provides hard disk storage & tapes backup to calls.

[Beetlejuice]

He now conducts for The Russian Pedioharmonic Orchestra and has recently created an instru mental revival of Rolf Harris`s famous hit, Two Little Boys.