Any Non-Native English Teachers Here?

[ragamuffin]

What are your qualifications, for how long have you been teaching/have you taught in Thailand and was it difficult for you to find a job?

[Scott]

We hire non-native speakers, but they don't teach English. They teach subjects, such as science, math, social studies, Physical Education etc., The qualifications are the same as for any native speaker, with the addition of having to have passed an English proficiency exam (such as TOIEC).

[ragamuffin]

We hire non-native speakers, but they don't teach English. They teach subjects, such as science, math, social studies, Physical Education etc., The qualifications are the same as for any native speaker, with the addition of having to have passed an English proficiency exam (such as TOIEC).

Thanks for the reply!

Who is "we"?

What's the situation like for non-natives with a very good command of English plus a degree in ELT? Do they find jobs?

Edited July 19, 2010 by ragamuffin

[Scott]

"We" is the school where I work. Currently no openings as the school year has started. Your chances are pretty good.

Many schools look for a 'white face', not necessarily a native speaker. A number of Europeans have near-native speaking ability and get hired quite easily.

[BugJackBaron]

"We" is the school where I work. Currently no openings as the school year has started. Your chances are pretty good.

Many schools look for a 'white face', not necessarily a native speaker. A number of Europeans have near-native speaking ability and get hired quite easily.

Some will but almost always at a pay rate lower than that of a native

or even a Thai English teacher.

[siampolee]

Ragamuffin.

What's the situation like for non-natives with a very good command of English plus a degree in ELT? Do they find jobs?

If you measure up to the criteria you quote I assure you there will be little or no problem in securing a decent position.

Believe you me some of the native English speaker applicants that I have interviewed over the years have at the best been able to muster a smidgen of pidgin Neanderthal, yet have claimed the most amazing qualifications and indeed have had impressive employment records.

However, this being ''The Land of Smiles'' I and my fellow interviewers on the panel have dissolved into mirthful hysterics at the comedy parody and material presented to us at interviews.

Ragamuffin if you have the qualifications you will be welcomed with open arms, don't give up.

[ragamuffin]

"We" is the school where I work. Currently no openings as the school year has started. Your chances are pretty good.

Many schools look for a 'white face', not necessarily a native speaker. A number of Europeans have near-native speaking ability and get hired quite easily.

Some will but almost always at a pay rate lower than that of a native

or even a Thai English teacher.

The latter I doubt, to be honest.

[ragamuffin]

Ragamuffin.

What's the situation like for non-natives with a very good command of English plus a degree in ELT? Do they find jobs?

If you measure up to the criteria you quote I assure you there will be little or no problem in securing a decent position.

Believe you me some of the native English speaker applicants that I have interviewed over the years have at the best been able to muster a smidgen of pidgin Neanderthal, yet have claimed the most amazing qualifications and indeed have had impressive employment records.

However, this being ''The Land of Smiles'' I and my fellow interviewers on the panel have dissolved into mirthful hysterics at the comedy parody and material presented to us at interviews.

Ragamuffin if you have the qualifications you will be welcomed with open arms, don't give up.

Cheers, I've not even really started yet though ;-).

Posted my qualifications in another thread as I've been thinking about applying after graduating in spring/summer 2012 for quite some time now (I'll be 30 at that point).

Are six months' contracts common or available at all?

My aim is not to stay in Thailand for a far longer period because I'd like to join a PhD programme on Educational Studies at home and need to finish the school part of my teacher training in Germany as well (plus my husband to-be will keep his job in Munich and not join me).

This is what might hopefully find me a decent position:

Non-native (German), will be holding a degree in ELT and Social Studies for grammar school teachers to-be (University of Munich, Germany), have already worked as a volunteer in Thailand teaching English, several internships at German schools, one year abroad at Warwick Uni (England) and part-time job at BMW World's Junior Campus working with children (German/English), plus the regular tutoring jobs next to uni (English lessons). Female and do speak/understand Thai neetnoy :-).

May I ask for which institution you interview applicants?

[siampolee]

Ragamuffin.

The idea of a six month period is skewed,if you start the school year you should finish that school year.

Your students are the most important people in your life as you are to them as their teacher.

As teachers we are in a very privileged position and we exert great influence on our charges, they, the children are the reason we are there.

If the students are to be used by you as a sounding board to further your theory and practice you would indeed be well advised to stay in your home country and possibly work as a supply teacher rather than come to Thailand and confuse the kids you come into contact briefly even more.

Children need continuity in their education, not someone who drifts in and out of their lives with nary a care or concern as to whether those children are actually getting the benefit of your teaching.

[skybluestu]

Ragamuffin.

The idea of a six month period is skewed,if you start the school year you should finish that school year.

Your students are the most important people in your life as you are to them as their teacher.

As teachers we are in a very privileged position and we exert great influence on our charges, they, the children are the reason we are there.

If the students are to be used by you as a sounding board to further your theory and practice you would indeed be well advised to stay in your home country and possibly work as a supply teacher rather than come to Thailand and confuse the kids you come into contact briefly even more.

Children need continuity in their education, not someone who drifts in and out of their lives with nary a care or concern as to whether those children are actually getting the benefit of your teaching.

Well said, that man (or woman)!

[Scott]

In general, you will need to complete a year contract, however, there is always turnover in teachers and the possibility of working for six months is possible, but it would be more by luck than design.

[Firelily]

Six months and non-native teacher, well there is one very specific case when someone with this background would be a godsend - if a teacher drops out during term, and an urgent replacement is needed, most schools lower their expectations a little. You just need to be in the right place at the right time.

[ragamuffin]

Ragamuffin.

The idea of a six month period is skewed,if you start the school year you should finish that school year.

Your students are the most important people in your life as you are to them as their teacher.

As teachers we are in a very privileged position and we exert great influence on our charges, they, the children are the reason we are there.

If the students are to be used by you as a sounding board to further your theory and practice you would indeed be well advised to stay in your home country and possibly work as a supply teacher rather than come to Thailand and confuse the kids you come into contact briefly even more.

Children need continuity in their education, not someone who drifts in and out of their lives with nary a care or concern as to whether those children are actually getting the benefit of your teaching.

Excuse me?

There's no necessity to tutor me about students and their needs or not abusing them to propel whatever you think I am planning to - no worries, as a teacher to-be I have always been and still am aware of my responsibilities .

My question was plain, simple and out of honest interest, as I do of course know that contracts for less than a year exist. The only thing I do NOT know is whether they are common.

Any child I've worked with and/or taught has benefitted from my being their teacher and so (I believe) would the pupils in Thailand.

If not for a whole year, then at least for the period of time I could spend with them - which will very likely be far better than (don't get me wrong) what many "English teachers" crossing their way will be able to offer them. That much I do already know about the Thai school system.

[ragamuffin]

Six months and non-native teacher, well there is one very specific case when someone with this background would be a godsend - if a teacher drops out during term, and an urgent replacement is needed, most schools lower their expectations a little. You just need to be in the right place at the right time.

Why do you think someone would need to lower their expectations to hire me for something which is my profession and I am good at?

[Scott]

I think he's talking about the expectation of someone staying for a full-contract term of one academic year. I don't know that he's talking about your qualifications personally.

[siampolee]

Exactly I am not talking about qualifications.

I am talking about obligation to students, you cannot drop into the lives of Thai students (or any other students for that matter) for six months having little or no knowledge of the eccentricities of Thai culture and the Thai educational system.

Students are not toys to be played with on a capricious whim as part of a learning curve for a teacher, that learning curve must and in fact has too include the very people you are there for. The students.

Teachers are there because of the students, not the other way around, relief teaching may well be the ideal scenario for you in your own country or possibly a teacher exchange programme.

However most teacher exchange programmes last for one year normally, be flexible Ragamuffin.

Believe you me even after nearly twenty years of teaching here and mixed with my U.K. teaching experience along with being married to the wife and father to our mixed race kids I'm still learning, it's still that challenging enjoyable learning curve.

Edited July 22, 2010 by siampolee

[ragamuffin]

Exactly I am not talking about qualifications.

I am talking about obligation to students, you cannot drop into the lives of Thai students (or any other students for that matter) for six months having little or no knowledge of the eccentricities of Thai culture and the Thai educational system.

Students are not toys to be played with on a capricious whim as part of a learning curve for a teacher, that learning curve must and in fact has too include the very people you are there for. The students.

Teachers are there because of the students, not the other way around, relief teaching may well be the ideal scenario for you in your own country or possibly a teacher exchange programme.

However most teacher exchange programmes last for one year normally, be flexible Ragamuffin.

Believe you me even after nearly twenty years of teaching here and mixed with my U.K. teaching experience along with being married to the wife and father to our mixed race kids I'm still learning, it's still that challenging enjoyable learning curve.

No offence, but there really isn't any need to lecture me about teacher responsibilities or the precondition of being aware of Thai culture.

The issues you've raised are generally justified, but why do you assume me being part of the group you're criticizing?

You might have read that my background is a professional one which of course requires specific knowledge and work ethics - IMHO.

While totally agreeing with what you say: you're picking on the wrong person, mate.

It hits me hard being thought of as irresponsible and naive and I do not think that I have given you any reason to attack me like that.

[Scott]

Let's play fair here, otherwise there are going to be posts deleted and warnings issued.

The sensitivity to teachers coming and going is mostly (but not entirely) related to the age of the students, with younger kids being more sensitive. This is particularly true with a homeroom teacher or where some bonding has taken place. There are a number of ways of handling the separation issues when a teachers leaving is anticipated.

[ragamuffin]

Let's play fair here, otherwise there are going to be posts deleted and warnings issued.

The sensitivity to teachers coming and going is mostly (but not entirely) related to the age of the students, with younger kids being more sensitive. This is particularly true with a homeroom teacher or where some bonding has taken place. There are a number of ways of handling the separation issues when a teachers leaving is anticipated.

True.

German secondary schools change some subjects/teachers biannually without negative effects for the students - same at colleges/unis, by the way, which are organised on semester basis.

This does of course not apply to classroom teachers and young(er) students for the above mentioned reasons.

I am not planning to disrupt young souls .

[siampolee]

Ragamuffin

While totally agreeing with what you say: you're picking on the wrong person, mate.

It hits me hard being thought of as irresponsible and naive and I do not think that I have given you any reason to attack me like that.

A response like that indicates to me someone who is far too sensitive and reading the wrong message..

Ragamufiin, I have passed an opinion based upon my personal experience of working here in Thailand both as a teacher and a head of department, I have not attacked you in any way, contrary to what you may think.

Ragamufiin,

No offence, but there really isn't any need to lecture me about teacher responsibilities or the precondition of being aware of Thai culture.

The issues you've raised are generally justified, but why do you assume me being part of the group you're criticizing?

You might have read that my background is a professional one which of course requires specific knowledge and work ethics - IMHO.

That above quote from your good self indicates to me certainly that you are rather self opinionated and in reality look down on those you consider lesser mortals, I like many other professional qualified teachers here, are here for the right reasons not as part of a dissertation paper.

[ragamuffin]

Ragamuffin

While totally agreeing with what you say: you're picking on the wrong person, mate.

It hits me hard being thought of as irresponsible and naive and I do not think that I have given you any reason to attack me like that.

A response like that indicates to me someone who is far too sensitive and reading the wrong message..

Ragamufiin, I have passed an opinion based upon my personal experience of working here in Thailand both as a teacher and a head of department, I have not attacked you in any way, contrary to what you may think.

Ragamufiin,

No offence, but there really isn't any need to lecture me about teacher responsibilities or the precondition of being aware of Thai culture.

The issues you've raised are generally justified, but why do you assume me being part of the group you're criticizing?

You might have read that my background is a professional one which of course requires specific knowledge and work ethics - IMHO.

That above quote from your good self indicates to me certainly that you are rather self opinionated and in reality look down on those you consider lesser mortals, I like many other professional qualified teachers here, are here for the right reasons not as part of a dissertation paper.

Jesus o_O.

What exactly is your problem?

I'm starting to lose patience about all these assumptions, seriously.

What gives you the idea of my wanting to teach in Thailand as a part of a dissertation paper?

All you know is that I am writing my final thesis about Thailand and ELT, which surprisingly is a result of my experience made teaching as a volunteer. In other words: I am genuinely interested in research on this topic.

My request about employment opportunities concerns a period after my graduation. Nothing to do with the thesis you're referring to.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them, but could you please stop accusing me of whateveryouthinkmymotivationis out of nowhere?

Thank you.

[Scott]

Since this topic is straying way of track and is getting personal it will be closed. You were warned, but persist.

//Closed//

[Scott]

At the request of the OP, I am re-opening the thread. Please keep comments to the content of the post and not the poster.

[siampolee]

RagamuffinWhat gives you the idea of my wanting to teach in Thailand as a part of a dissertation paper?

All you know is that I am writing my final thesis about Thailand and ELT, which surprisingly is a result of my experience made teaching as a volunteer. In other words: I am genuinely interested in research on this topic.

My request about employment opportunities concerns a period after my graduation. Nothing to do with the thesis you're referring to.

I take your point and if you consider I am incorrect I apologise to you.

However I still think that you as a teacher are not aware of the impact your short term teaching plan will have upon your charges, also one needs to remember your co-teachers too , they too have to pick up the pieces.

The teaching profession in Thailand certainly within the language school and cram schools sector suffer badly or rather their students do (read customers) from the antics of transient teachers and their lack of qualifications and reliability which in view of your experiences you are probably well aware of.

The normal Monday to Friday school teaching normal subjects according to the national curriculum in the man seems to have managed to solve the transient teacher problem. However recently at our school we had that problem rear its ugly head due to a teacher being somewhat economical with the truth with regards to commitment of one year.

The children (year 5) took it hard, sadly we also discovered a number of other matters concerning this transient, who I might add, had a track record that was good and genuine, however this post with us was at the end of the grand world tour that had been happening for the last four years with this particular teacher.

The children concerned are making up the lost time as they are with a stable committed teacher, who, like all of our staff has been here for some 3 years and is actually the newest recruit so to speak.

Our staff service average is 7 years, stability is assured and there is a great student , teacher, school relationship, we are aware of the students foibles and quirks we are aware of what the performance and behaviour pattern is, education is not just the 3 Rs.it's a lifestyle.

Education is about the role we as teachers play in our students lives,along with the impact we have on them , I well remember all of my teachers from 1950 to 1962 and the way they shaped my life one person in particular stands out above all others, without her influence I would not be the man I am today.That also goes for my university lectures as well

That student teacher relationship is vital, even more so in this modern age when in most cases the students see more of their teachers than they do their parents..

That is what I am trying to get you to understand, the fact that teaching is not about Me, I, Myself, it's about our students, they are the reason we are teachers, those students are the reason we are at the school , those students are the school not me, you or Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all.

I wish you well in your career however it seems as if that old saying

''An expert knows very little about a great deal and a specialist knows a great deal about very little.'' is indeed going to be coming into play.

Strange as it may seem I may well be regarded as a fossil but as both a parent and a teacher perhaps my insight may be a trifle more informed than yours in the area of practical application of theory as I am sure other teachers who may read this will feel the same too.

Edited July 22, 2010 by siampolee

[lovebkk]

I'm not a native English speaker either.

I've been teaching in Vietnam for about 5 years. Next month my contract will be fulfilled and I feel that it's time to move on. Preferable I'd like to find a job in Pattaya, but would be willing to spent the next few years in Bangkok.

I have a TEFL and a bachelor's degree in Teaching & Education

I can tell you that the working conditions are very reasonable in Vietnam. Pay is pretty decent and westerners like us are still in high demand. there's not a central place (an agent) to find employemnt. it will be nessecary for you visit some schools in person in order to arrange an interview. There are some exceptions to that rule. VUS and RMIT can be contact from abroad and are always looking for teachers.

Just thought I'd bring up another option than Thailand :-)

PS Employers, please contact me if you're hiring

[ragamuffin]

RagamuffinWhat gives you the idea of my wanting to teach in Thailand as a part of a dissertation paper?

All you know is that I am writing my final thesis about Thailand and ELT, which surprisingly is a result of my experience made teaching as a volunteer. In other words: I am genuinely interested in research on this topic.

My request about employment opportunities concerns a period after my graduation. Nothing to do with the thesis you're referring to.

I take your point and if you consider I am incorrect I apologise to you.

However I still think that you as a teacher are not aware of the impact your short term teaching plan will have upon your charges, also one needs to remember your co-teachers too , they too have to pick up the pieces.

The teaching profession in Thailand certainly within the language school and cram schools sector suffer badly or rather their students do (read customers) from the antics of transient teachers and their lack of qualifications and reliability which in view of your experiences you are probably well aware of.

The normal Monday to Friday school teaching normal subjects according to the national curriculum in the man seems to have managed to solve the transient teacher problem. However recently at our school we had that problem rear its ugly head due to a teacher being somewhat economical with the truth with regards to commitment of one year.

The children (year 5) took it hard, sadly we also discovered a number of other matters concerning this transient, who I might add, had a track record that was good and genuine, however this post with us was at the end of the grand world tour that had been happening for the last four years with this particular teacher.

The children concerned are making up the lost time as they are with a stable committed teacher, who, like all of our staff has been here for some 3 years and is actually the newest recruit so to speak.

Our staff service average is 7 years, stability is assured and there is a great student , teacher, school relationship, we are aware of the students foibles and quirks we are aware of what the performance and behaviour pattern is, education is not just the 3 Rs.it's a lifestyle.

Education is about the role we as teachers play in our students lives,along with the impact we have on them , I well remember all of my teachers from 1950 to 1962 and the way they shaped my life one person in particular stands out above all others, without her influence I would not be the man I am today.That also goes for my university lectures as well

That student teacher relationship is vital, even more so in this modern age when in most cases the students see more of their teachers than they do their parents..

That is what I am trying to get you to understand, the fact that teaching is not about Me, I, Myself, it's about our students, they are the reason we are teachers, those students are the reason we are at the school , those students are the school not me, you or Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all.

I wish you well in your career however it seems as if that old saying

''An expert knows very little about a great deal and a specialist knows a great deal about very little.'' is indeed going to be coming into play.

Strange as it may seem I may well be regarded as a fossil but as both a parent and a teacher perhaps my insight may be a trifle more informed than yours in the area of practical application of theory as I am sure other teachers who may read this will feel the same too.

Thank you, siampolee.

I appreciate your insight and especially your attitude a lot.

It's good to see that there's dedicated farang teachers in Thailand who care about their students and share a student-centred work ethics with me.

Everything you say about the teaching profession is correct and of course I will have to learn my own lessons which comes with time, but as the child of two teachers with a grandfather having been a teacher and myself having chosen my course of studies wisely, I can assure you myself being one of the teachers (to-be) you should worry less about .

[Firelily]

Six months and non-native teacher, well there is one very specific case when someone with this background would be a godsend - if a teacher drops out during term, and an urgent replacement is needed, most schools lower their expectations a little. You just need to be in the right place at the right time.

Why do you think someone would need to lower their expectations to hire me for something which is my profession and I am good at?

If you want to go on the offensive, why not, I can only tell you what I see in everyday life around me for years and years.... if a principal has 2 months to hire a new teacher, they will be picky, they may prefer a certain age or accent or gender for example, if they have two hours, they will take the first applicant who looks reasonably ok.

I am a non-native teacher myself and I would have lots to tell, but you know what, I don't care if you swim or sink or whatever, because your attitude just stinks, it is not right for Thailand.... these reactions won't get you very far in a Thai school with its conservative hierarchy.

Good luck, anyway.

[ragamuffin]

Six months and non-native teacher, well there is one very specific case when someone with this background would be a godsend - if a teacher drops out during term, and an urgent replacement is needed, most schools lower their expectations a little. You just need to be in the right place at the right time.

Why do you think someone would need to lower their expectations to hire me for something which is my profession and I am good at?

If you want to go on the offensive, why not, I can only tell you what I see in everyday life around me for years and years.... if a principal has 2 months to hire a new teacher, they will be picky, they may prefer a certain age or accent or gender for example, if they have two hours, they will take the first applicant who looks reasonably ok.

I am a non-native teacher myself and I would have lots to tell, but you know what, I don't care if you swim or sink or whatever, because your attitude just stinks, it is not right for Thailand.... these reactions won't get you very far in a Thai school with its conservative hierarchy.

Good luck, anyway.

Which attitude and reactions?

I asked a serious question and every reply I get is offending.

Would you at least try to explain what went wrong?

[Scott]

The question has been answered about the hiring of non-native speakers. They are hired and they can get work, especially if they are well qualified and coming from a western country is a definite plus. I know schools who employ 50% or more Filipino teachers. They speak English, but they are non-native speakers. Some are well qualified and do an excellent job; others less so.

Some of the posters on the forum have years of experience in teaching and are quite familiar with the problems of people who come and work a short period of time and then leave. They are stuck with cleaning up the mess, for lack of a better word, of unfinished classes, doing exams and giving grades.

As someone who works more on the Administrative side, I can tell you that I am familiar with going through the work of verifying the degree, getting the paperwork together for a non-immigrant B visa and a Teacher's License and then a work permit, only to have the teacher leave. My director is quite familiar with the costs of employees like that. And from the Admin side, it's a big job hiring foreigners. And often, we get to start all over with everything when the teacher leaves.

You will likely learn little about Thai education in general, but a lot about a particular school. There are some things they all have in common, but the devil is in the details--and those are quite specific to individual schools.

A full teaching load will give you little time to view how the system works; you will be very busy working.

You will have to take both the good and bad from other posters and listen to their suggestions and criticisms if you want to learn about education in Thailand.

[ragamuffin]

The question has been answered about the hiring of non-native speakers. They are hired and they can get work, especially if they are well qualified and coming from a western country is a definite plus. I know schools who employ 50% or more Filipino teachers. They speak English, but they are non-native speakers. Some are well qualified and do an excellent job; others less so.

Some of the posters on the forum have years of experience in teaching and are quite familiar with the problems of people who come and work a short period of time and then leave. They are stuck with cleaning up the mess, for lack of a better word, of unfinished classes, doing exams and giving grades.

As someone who works more on the Administrative side, I can tell you that I am familiar with going through the work of verifying the degree, getting the paperwork together for a non-immigrant B visa and a Teacher's License and then a work permit, only to have the teacher leave. My director is quite familiar with the costs of employees like that. And from the Admin side, it's a big job hiring foreigners. And often, we get to start all over with everything when the teacher leaves.

You will likely learn little about Thai education in general, but a lot about a particular school. There are some things they all have in common, but the devil is in the details--and those are quite specific to individual schools.

A full teaching load will give you little time to view how the system works; you will be very busy working.

You will have to take both the good and bad from other posters and listen to their suggestions and criticisms if you want to learn about education in Thailand.

Thanks for the info, Scott.

As already mentioned above: I do NOT want to teach in Thailand for research reasons. The thesis stuff happens before and is not my driving force for coming there. Apparently several people got this wrong which might have caused their biased first impression.

I'd also appreciate Firelily sharing her point of view on my initial questions, really.

Edited July 24, 2010 by ragamuffin