Thais Have Little Concept Of The Collective Good

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Thais have little concept of the collective good

By The Nation

Selfish exploitation and abuse of public spaces is perhaps one reason why our society fails to instil a sense of responsibility and public duty

Many Thais still continue to interpret common areas, or public space, as places where anyone can do anything they like, and nobody should feel responsible for them. Such an attitude can be readily observed in public parks, where many people throw litter at will and have a complete absence of a sense of common ownership and care.

The same attitude is seen in private areas, too. For example, many of Bangkok's condominiums do not have allotted car-parking spaces for every resident. Thus, residents face the problem of battling for a space. This leads to a belief by some car-owners that once they have parked their vehicle in a specific place in the common parking area, they should continue to own the right to be able to park in the same spot forever. Others who park in that same spot then get into arguments because the person who had earlier parked there feels that his or her "private space" has been violated.

Confrontations like this have led to the intentional scratching of car paint, or even physical violence between people. Many condominium management teams end up having to install CCTV in order to reduce the risk of unlawful acts of revenge.

Another example of lack of awareness is the common disregard for semi-public areas within condominium compounds, where some residents feel they can add or remove any plants or trees, which are in the common areas, but which are otherwise close to their units. At the same time, others leave litter and cigarette butts in the common garden areas, as they believe they can do whatever they like in those places and that there are other people paid to clean up the space.

Some of the building managers wrongly believe that residents can do whatever they like there because it's "their common area". They fail to remember that because it is a common area and common property, every co-owner must take care not to impose upon other co-owners.

Public areas are owned by society as a whole. That means all of us. But Thais have little concept that streets, public parks, national forest reserves and so on, are the common property of everyone, and that everyone has a responsibility to look after them. For too long, Thais have believed that public areas are not owned by anyone and are there only to be exploited.

Such attitudes lead to filthy streets and parks in cities, and deforestation and garbage dumping in rural areas. It's also fertile ground for corruption of all sorts. Corruption because those who engage in graft do not think they are violating anyone else's rights. They have no idea that the common space is owned by themselves and others. They see the land as not belonging to them, but still available for exploitation.

As long as people continue to think that public areas are a free-for-all instead of common assets to be looked after and cared for, Thai society will continue to have a problem safeguarding the wider public interest.

The common good needs to be defended and looked after by society as a whole. Without a sense of collective ownership, Thailand cannot hope to advance far as a society because people will continue to be unable to see their private interest as being linked to the public good.

Schools and universities must try harder to instil a sense of public responsibility. Adults who recognise the importance of the matter must also lead by example and contribute to the protection of public spaces.

The current deep political divide may also be addressed by first having all sides recognise that society does not belong to just one group - themselves - but to different groups of people who hold different political views. The great challenge will be how we can co-exist in this common space called society without selfishly destroying what we all share.

-- The Nation 2010-07-22

[seri thai]

Isn't this one part of the backlash caused by the "Thailand for Thais" nationalism expounded by previous nationalist junta agendas?

It goes a lot deeper than condo car-parks...

Äs ye reap so shall ye sew...

[charlesfrith]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

[jackdawson]

i kind of like the thai girls .

they r very copernican . the world revolves around them (as it should) . in fact , there may be no one else in the world , except maybe their mom . thus , def. no "collectivism" .

(ps re: collectivism ; didn't that go out anyway w/ stalin , mao and fidel whenever he goes )

Edited July 22, 2010 by jackdawson

[brahmburgers]

I think it's people in general who are exceedingly selfish. They need good examples while growing up, not just in what elders say, but how elders actually manifest (actions). Suggestion: take schoolchildren out to do good things for the greater good (pick up litter at a park, etc). Also, expose youngsters to people who are less well off than themselves, such as invalids, elderly - and find simple ways they can assist. Incidentally, such exposure was what prompted the Buddha to develop compassion for others.

[trogers]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

To judge the truth of this article, one needs only to look at how the House of politicians behave...

[Thai at Heart]

For a country that even has a phrase that largely encompasses this "Graeng Jai", it would appear that the word was only created because someone noticed a long time ago that this was a problem.

Collective good? I sometimes think Thai's believe it means how much can I collect for me, me, me, me and me. Just watching how a nationality drives is enough to see if they have any concept of collective benefit.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[MCos]

In our moo ban there is a constant problem with people letting their pets shit anywhere they feel like and not clean up after them - no matter how many flyers are send around asking people not to do this. It's not a huge problem, but it is indicative of a general lack of civic pride I have noticed in this country by a good many of the population.

[whybother]

I think this has a lot to do with Thais lack of respect for rules and regulations.

If other people do it, then it's OK to do it.

If no one sees them do it, then it's OK to do it.

If no one says anything when they do it, then it's OK to do it.

If they can pay a bribe for it to be ignored, then it's OK to do it.

Of course, if someone does see someone else doing something wrong, they usually won't say anything because it could make the other person lose face.

And people don't care if they do something wrong, because they know others won't say anything, because if they (the others) do, they will lose face for making the people lose face.

Then it comes back to the people policing the rules and regulations, whether it's the police or the security guards. They simply don't do their job well enough.

Yes, many of us are in Thailand because of over regulation at "home", but in some areas, rules and regulations are for "the collective good", rather than the "nanny state" rules that we want to get away from.

[cardholder]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

Fascinating how an innocuous article about awareness of others/collective pride can draw out innaccurate sensationalist comments as above.

[ThaksinKharma]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

Fascinating how an innocuous article about awareness of others/collective pride can draw out inaccurate sensationalist comments as above.

With a further inaccuracy about most Thais not driving. Most do drive motorcycles and I've witnessed plenty of squabbles over motorcycle parking spots.

Basically I saw the article as a discussion about the shortcomings of people being selfish. Is that an exclusive Thai trait? No, not by a long shot.

[kandahar]

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

[Lite Beer]

A post in a foreign language has been deleted along with a reply to it.

[sbk]

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

I suspect the writer of the opinion is a Thai person making comments about Thai people in Thailand because he happens to be in Thailand and feels that this issue needs to be addressed by Thai people in Thailand. Little point in writing about the foibles of Kazakhs in a Thailand based newspaper.

[dumball]

This whole thing revolves around the way children are taught at a very early age , from the second they have figured out how to stand on thier own two feet , the training for the future should commence . Children learn at an astoundingly rapid rate in those early years , the mold needs to be set and guidance given by example , together with encouragement and simple explanation , as the family grows , all members need to learn to live as a community , is that not in fact what a family is ? Each and every member needs to learn to live amicably with all of the other members , keeping in mind they all have slightly differing needs , they need to learn to share for the good of the whole community (Family) and learn not to expect 'Some-one' to pick up behind them . This learned behaviour will reflect when they are outside in the larger community , giving respect to others thoughts and feelings is a neccessity if the community as a whole is to also develope into a happy , thriving , industrious 'Larger family' .

[liveinlos]

So what is new?

This has been the way of Thailand for years and years.

Thais are basically self-centered and selfish, caring only for themselves

Dumping trash is a major problem and I think if most Thai's could get away with it, they would even dump it over the fence into their neighbors yard

I don't see this selfish attitude ever changing, only getting worse

[kandahar]

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

I suspect the writer of the opinion is a Thai person making comments about Thai people in Thailand because he happens to be in Thailand and feels that this issue needs to be addressed by Thai people in Thailand. Little point in writing about the foibles of Kazakhs in a Thailand based newspaper.

Little point in writing about "Thais Have Little Concept Of The Collective Good" when there are so many other aspects of this society that outshine other parts of this world in the category of "collective good", starting with the family unit and its importance in Thai society. The list goes on and on. Or, the author can just be disgruntled about his parking space and the trash in his park. I see lots of Thais seeking out the little trash heaps in the parks to drop their cups and plastic bags onto.

The article was posted on the TV forum, an English forum, for reading and for comment. People who can read and have traveled are the basis of this forum. If it was meant for Thais, it should be posted in Thai, in a Thai newspaper and on a Thai speaking forum. Again, the author doesn't recognize what is good and what is bad. The do's and don'ts that are taught to the youngsters here are all about the "collective good". Too bad so much of that has been lost in the progressive cultures of other countries. This Thai society is NOT a ME, ME, ME society and anyone who claims that it is, is not well informed, whether they are Thai or not.

[cardholder]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

Fascinating how an innocuous article about awareness of others/collective pride can draw out inaccurate sensationalist comments as above.

With a further inaccuracy about most Thais not driving. Most do drive motorcycles and I've witnessed plenty of squabbles over motorcycle parking spots.

Basically I saw the article as a discussion about the shortcomings of people being selfish. Is that an exclusive Thai trait? No, not by a long shot.

I accept that it is not exclusive to Thais, but I do think that selfishness/lack of awareness of others is a fundamental barrier to progression/evolution.

[ThaksinKharma]

So what is new?

This has been the way of Thailand for years and years.

Thais are basically self-centered and selfish, caring only for themselves

So what is new?

This has been the way of the World for years and years.

Humans are basically self-centered and selfish, caring only for themselves

[ThaksinKharma]

Of course the recent collective action by Bangkokians to clean their streets after the slaughter of Reds goes against this article but nobody every took an intellectual leap banking on The Nation to see the nuance in any discussion. Instead as usual this looks like a private grudge written by the editor about parking space. Most Thais don't drive. How about that for a statistic.

Fascinating how an innocuous article about awareness of others/collective pride can draw out inaccurate sensationalist comments as above.

With a further inaccuracy about most Thais not driving. Most do drive motorcycles and I've witnessed plenty of squabbles over motorcycle parking spots.

Basically I saw the article as a discussion about the shortcomings of people being selfish. Is that an exclusive Thai trait? No, not by a long shot.

I accept that it is not exclusive to Thais, but I do think that selfishness/lack of awareness of others is a fundamental barrier to progression/evolution.

I agree that selfishness/lack of awareness of others is a fundamental barrier to progression/evolution for all humans on this planet. Hopefully, the world (including Thais as being a part of that community) can improve on those aspects.

[tominbkk]

My village fines people for leaving their dogs outside or letting them poop wherever. Works well! Most people in my hood now actually walk their dogs with leashes and carry pooper scoopers. We actually have quite a few fines in place, keeps those who think they can do whatever the frag they want under control.

[dumball]

'tominbkk' timestamp='1279768279' post='3764850']

My village fines people for leaving their dogs outside or letting them poop wherever. Works well! Most people in my hood now actually walk their dogs with leashes and carry pooper scoopers. We actually have quite a few fines in place, keeps those who think they can do whatever the frag they want under control.

I was quite taken aback by the actions in your particular village , it is a shame that fining needed to be brought in to help prevent the few from despoilng shared property for the majority . However , it does not matter what many posters at various times have regurgitated about the 'Nanny State' , it is quite obvious that in some cases the advantages outweigh the lack of concern by those few with a lack of cocern for others , something that SHOULD have been taught at an early age . What I was taken aback by , was that the rules are actualy put into effect , something that is not done in far to many instancies in Thai society , keep up the good work , you never know , it could spread and improve life in general across the country .

[rkidlad]

It's all down to education and how you're raised. You get people like this all over the world, but I've definitely noticed it's more prevelent here than anywhere else I've lived. I was always taught to say please and thank you, put my litter in the bin and respect people's private space.

There seems to be very little concept of people's private/personal space. At the same time, people who own a stall on the street seem to think that whole area is theirs. There's a pavement there which is for the public to walk on. But they usually treat it as their own little peice of land. This makes life difficult when walking down the street.

I'm a foreigner here but I do pay tax. I clean up my litter and respect public property. I'm a product of my environment. 'nuff said.

[hoaker]

This is thailand.... Operates this way for a long time. Take the gym for an example, thai people will move dumbels of the rack and never return. When in the Honolulu, people always wipe their sweat down with cleaners, here in thailand people don't care for each other but yet, they are dubbed " khee Greang Jai". Indenial and maintain face is the moto for Thai's. What a CROCK!!!!

[tonywebster]

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

here we go again, does the article state that this trait is only connected to Thais? no it doesn't so why try and assume that it does, it mentions thais because the writer is thai, in thailand, in a thai newspaper.

[bodegl]

I think it's people in general who are exceedingly selfish. They need good examples while growing up, not just in what elders say, but how elders actually manifest (actions). Suggestion: take schoolchildren out to do good things for the greater good (pick up litter at a park, etc). Also, expose youngsters to people who are less well off than themselves, such as invalids, elderly - and find simple ways they can assist. Incidentally, such exposure was what prompted the Buddha to develop compassion for others.

I totally agree, Brahmburgers. This is not limited to Thailand. Increased focus on the self rather than society, lack of decent role models to set good examples, consumerism that creates ever greater waste (and waist!), "entertainment" TV reality shows that applaud the worst of human behaviour, etc., etc.. Many do not seem to know what compassion is anymore. Their definition of suffering is that they don't have high pay, good looks or some latest gadget!. It's any wonder that people have lost sight of the need for the greater good!

[hunglikea]

We have our communal wheelie bin on the pavement opposite out house. People used to dump piles of all sorts of rubbish 'somewhere near' it. We kept an eye out for whoever was doing it and I dumped it back outside their door. Now they put it INSIDE the bin or in bags next to it and the area is clean.

Embarrass them into doing something I find is usually the best way. People get too worried about this "LOSING FACE' crap.

[nosatisfaction]

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

agree 100%

[Pib]

When you get right now to it, Thailand is a dirty country in most areas. While most Thai's will keep their house spotless and yards in pretty good shape, outside the boundaries of their fence/property Thai's will litter like there is no tomorrow, throw yard cuttings over their fence to a common area/on the sidewalk, dump stuff along the road, let their dogs run loose and crap anywhere, etc. Even when utility companies (phone, electric, or water) do work in an area they will routinely leave leftover wire/boxes/trash from the work they did. Thai's seem to think it's OK to litter. Of course the government and companies do little to help because they generally make conveniently placed trash cans a scarce commodity. And I know of no official refuse/dump centers were a person can go dispose of trash. And don't get me started on the zillion road and building signs advertising something, which is another eyesore.

[chainarong]

Thailand isn't alone in this area, it's happening just about everywhere, why , who knows, maybe upbring from the parents, family unit , people just seem to be blind to rubbish why?