Ford Canceled My Warrenty

[MoonRiverOasis]

There is even a filter for the air con which should be replaced regulary, otherwise the blower can be damaged. Therefore maybe no waranty, because filter not replaced at the right time.

A little off-topic, but the prices dealers charge for replacement airconditioning filters is always a rort. A good quality aftermarket A/C filter can be bought for <500 Baht, vs 1600 to 2500 from the dealership. I should also note that very few cars come with an A/C filter as standard, but all have the provision.

I have a contact for a well priced vendor of these (~450 Baht including EMS, simple DIY install), but TV won't allow me to post email addresses - please feel free to PM me if you (or anyone else reading) would like to contact them.

[stingray]

There is even a filter for the air con which should be replaced regulary, otherwise the blower can be damaged. Therefore maybe no waranty, because filter not replaced at the right time.

A little off-topic, but the prices dealers charge for replacement airconditioning filters is always a rort. A good quality aftermarket A/C filter can be bought for <500 Baht, vs 1600 to 2500 from the dealership. I should also note that very few cars come with an A/C filter as standard, but all have the provision.

I have a contact for a well priced vendor of these (~450 Baht including EMS, simple DIY install), but TV won't allow me to post email addresses - please feel free to PM me if you (or anyone else reading) would like to contact them.

Filters and Filters are sometime not the same. I had once a Chinese air filter on a motorbike which falled a part after 3 months, resulting in a failty coarburetor. Using the original parts is better, than saving a couple hundert bahts in a wrong way. Maybe later you pay more. BTW, Toyota charged me 600 and something for that particilar AC filter (Vios). Not expensive.

[Kwasaki]

Yes ! I have read pretty much all the remarks and I guess you have just become another victim of the motor industry, unfortunate, you have my sympathy.

MoonRiverOasis has a good point about sourcing other markets. e.g. At Toyota it reads on the can " Toyota Oil ! " I can also read Castrol or Havoline ? which I've have seen before.

Here is a few funny things that have happen to me, I say funny because if you didn't laugh you'd cry.

My Vigo which I bought new has been going to Toyota for the three years, only because of the warranty, I paid only for the parts not the labour, cheap I thought and you would think so too ! No-ooooooooo ! what a pratt I have been. It goes to Cockpit now " Excellent Service ", well ! so far so good.

I spoke to Cockpit guy saying you got a lot of Toyota's coming in here and there's Toyota across the road, yes ! he said but many of them come here now.

Oh ! by the way the card " Tansam " I think mentioned, has been discarded by Toyota now, you know ! we were told that when we took my wife's 18 months old Yaris to Toyota's " Without successful attempts of me trying to tell her otherwise " in for service and also pointed out that the door locking mechanism did not shut auto when pulling away, Toyota " Oh ! madam that will 500 bht to have look at and extra costs if it need parts ", Wife " but it's under warranty ",

Toyota " not that part of the car madam ". Come the bill like before with my Vigo, Toyota " Oh! sorry sir we do not take Visa cards anymore", Ok ! muttering under my breath as I went off to the ATM, the warranty has probably run out on " visa's " as well.

As I say I choose to take the two motors to Cockpit now, and by the way got the Yaris problem sorted, 50 baht.

[JohnLeech]

I thought I was on the wrong forum, with the number of posts here which are irrational, uninformed or just plain bizarre - thank God for the normal few who still have some common sense!

Toyota's instructions on servicing/warranty are very clear in the warranty (Thai) and in the User Manual (English):

Regular maintenance is essential. We urge you to protect your new vehicle by having your Toyota serviced according t the maintenance schedule given on the following pages. Regular maintenance will aid: ... ... ... ... Warranty coverage.

Where to go for service? It makes good sense to take your vehicle to your local Toyota dealer for service. ..............

What about do-it-yourself maintenance? Many of the maintenance are easy t do yourself if you have a little mechanical ability and a few basic tools. ............ Note, however, that some maintenance tasks require special skills and tools. These are best performed by qualified techniians. ........ we recommend that repairs and maintenance be conducted by your Toyota dealer who will keep a record of maintenance on your Toyota. This record could be helpful should you ever require Warranty Service.

Basically, if you can prove that all the maintenance and servicing has been carried out according to the manual your warranty is valid; if you can't, its not, and that includes having the vehicle serviced somewhere equipped with scanning equipment, etc, as transam said, and using all original parts. It is up to you to prove it, not the manufacturer to disprove it. In theory anywhere properly equipped = in practice a dealer. I would imagine that most manufacturers follow a similar policy - something I find both reasonable and sensible. After all, as MRO rightly said "How is free more expensive than not free? Most of the majors include free labor for all scheduled services during the warranty period (Toyota, Honda, Mitsu, Ford etc), and you've always got the option of providing your own oil if 600-800 Baht for their stuff seems too expensive (or in my case, not expensive enough ). As for genuine parts like filters etc, they're usually very reaosnably priced (220-270 Baht)." If, for some strange reason, you want to pay for your free service, then you must keep a detailed, verifiable bill.

Stingray, generally I agree with you but certainly Toyota replaced one power window motor for me because it was starting to make a noise a couple of months before the warranty expired and one of the shocks that was leaking, under warranty.

At least some of the claims and posts amused me:

The idea that constant travelling for 3,000 kms a month would prevent any and all dealer servicing for over 50,000 kms is bizarre - I have done more than that in some months on my bicycle!

"i've been really successful in getting out of court settlements in Thailand". What a coincidence - so have I. When my Big Mac was late at the Drive-Thru they settled by giving me extra fries; when my pizza was late I didn't have to pay. Come on pleeease!

"If the engine of your Ford is a diesel, it is made in Europe and falls under the European law, even if mounted in a car made in Asia. " As a sovereign country the only laws (apart from International Maritime Law and the ICC) which apply in Thaiand are Thai laws - rather like the situation in the rest of the world.

[Deeral]

I agree with most of what you say - but you let yourself down a bit here"

"It is up to you to prove it, not the manufacturer to disprove it." in any practical situation that is unlikely - they will have to claim first that the service was below standard. I agree if you go down that road you need to keep all evidence. - as the OP did. And he has a good reason - he's not normally anywhere near a "main Dealer".

As for the companies I've had satisfactory out of court claims - Try Hp, Central (very difficult), Carrefour, Land-Rover (a while back) and a few banks - I usually get a few thousand dollars a year back from companies that haven't lived up to their promises.

Some are refunds outside the guarantee, some claims are small - but they really aren't worth chasing - the effort has to relate to the amount of time involved and the possible return.

I won't give details here - some want me to sign a "no-publicity" form - however I find it is a sad reflection of some people's lack of imagination that they can't conceive of a successful complaint against a large company.

BTW - I NEVER -EVER eat at McDs!

[HDRIDER]

I thought I was on the wrong forum, with the number of posts here which are irrational, uninformed or just plain bizarre - thank God for the normal few who still have some common sense!

Toyota's instructions on servicing/warranty are very clear in the warranty (Thai) and in the User Manual (English):

Regular maintenance is essential. We urge you to protect your new vehicle by having your Toyota serviced according t the maintenance schedule given on the following pages. Regular maintenance will aid: ... ... ... ... Warranty coverage.

Where to go for service? It makes good sense to take your vehicle to your local Toyota dealer for service. ..............

What about do-it-yourself maintenance? Many of the maintenance are easy t do yourself if you have a little mechanical ability and a few basic tools. ............ Note, however, that some maintenance tasks require special skills and tools. These are best performed by qualified techniians. ........ we recommend that repairs and maintenance be conducted by your Toyota dealer who will keep a record of maintenance on your Toyota. This record could be helpful should you ever require Warranty Service.

Basically, if you can prove that all the maintenance and servicing has been carried out according to the manual your warranty is valid; if you can't, its not, and that includes having the vehicle serviced somewhere equipped with scanning equipment, etc, as transam said, and using all original parts. It is up to you to prove it, not the manufacturer to disprove it. In theory anywhere properly equipped = in practice a dealer. I would imagine that most manufacturers follow a similar policy - something I find both reasonable and sensible. After all, as MRO rightly said "How is free more expensive than not free? Most of the majors include free labor for all scheduled services during the warranty period (Toyota, Honda, Mitsu, Ford etc), and you've always got the option of providing your own oil if 600-800 Baht for their stuff seems too expensive (or in my case, not expensive enough ). As for genuine parts like filters etc, they're usually very reaosnably priced (220-270 Baht)." If, for some strange reason, you want to pay for your free service, then you must keep a detailed, verifiable bill.

Stingray, generally I agree with you but certainly Toyota replaced one power window motor for me because it was starting to make a noise a couple of months before the warranty expired and one of the shocks that was leaking, under warranty.

At least some of the claims and posts amused me:

The idea that constant travelling for 3,000 kms a month would prevent any and all dealer servicing for over 50,000 kms is bizarre - I have done more than that in some months on my bicycle!

"i've been really successful in getting out of court settlements in Thailand". What a coincidence - so have I. When my Big Mac was late at the Drive-Thru they settled by giving me extra fries; when my pizza was late I didn't have to pay. Come on pleeease!

"If the engine of your Ford is a diesel, it is made in Europe and falls under the European law, even if mounted in a car made in Asia. " As a sovereign country the only laws (apart from International Maritime Law and the ICC) which apply in Thaiand are Thai laws - rather like the situation in the rest of the world.

Hi

If you dont like what some people answer, dont ask

[Deeral]

"... thought I was on the wrong forum, with the number of posts here which are irrational, uninformed or just plain bizarre " - surely that would be enough to confirm to you that you were on Thaivisa - or were you expecting another forum?

[MoonRiverOasis]

"... thought I was on the wrong forum, with the number of posts here which are irrational, uninformed or just plain bizarre " - surely that would be enough to confirm to you that you were on Thaivisa - or were you expecting another forum?

So true, it's almost signature material

[mollyp]

i agree 100 percent and you will find that the little lady confronts you just after a phone call to / from family-----------------trust no -one unless you are sure-----trust no thai person ever !!

[JohnLeech]

"... thought I was on the wrong forum, with the number of posts here which are irrational, uninformed or just plain bizarre " - surely that would be enough to confirm to you that you were on Thaivisa - or were you expecting another forum?

No, I was referring to the News Clippings Forum.

Sorry my imagination doesn't live up to yours - I am obviously short of practice!

[lannarebirth]

Think the original guy gave you misinformation. New motors should be serviced at a main dealer for obvious reasons, not just changing oil but to scan the motor for potential probs covered under warranty which any other will not do.

What obvious reasons? Why should you ever need to go go back to the dealer if you are otherwise doing the correct maintenance and have documented it as such?

[lannarebirth]

Hi

I think its normal everywhere in the world that you have your car serviced with Ford (if you buy a Ford) yes? no?

NO!

[lannarebirth]

Sorry MI - but you'll find you are incorrect!

If MI is MikeyIdea then I must tell you that I don't agree with you. I have myself been told by Toyota that if I don't do my services with them, then I lose my warranty. I have chatted about this with my neighbours in the past and they know that you (unfortunately) must use the more expensive authorised dealers until warranty expires - and they do use them the first couple of years - it's not because they want to, it's because they know

The only time I have been forced to do service with the company I purchased a car from was when that service was provided "free" and was part of the incentive to buy the car. Even then you're not required to use the service, but as it is "free" . one customarily does.

[lannarebirth]

After reading all the replies l still believe that a manufacturer should service and keep an eye on THEIR product for warranty purposes. ANYBODY can produce a false service document from Joe Blogs garage. Really it's common sense that the manufacturer should be aware of their products history under their care..

Exactly!

Well. if they provide that service as part of the purchase price, then I would agree with you. Otherwise, it is nonsense.

[Deeral]

Whereas it might be a good idea - to service your car with the manufacturer - especially if it;s free - I can see many circumstances when it would be better to service it elsewhere.

firstly convenience - if there is no dealer nearby yet a competent substitute.

THen the dealership themselves may be incompetent - this is a problem I have personal; experience of - and I can service elsewhere with the manufacturers blessing.

also it flies in the face or fair trading practices - a monopoly and restrictive labour etc etc.

Even if it appeared in the sales contract I doubt if it would actually be legal.

[WarpSpeed]

^^Besides that way they can't gouge you on some other "required service" just as they do to nearly all. I have a friend who has a Fortuner and he brings it in for it's "free" service and they always, without fail manage to find some "obscure" service that needs to be done so it's never free and he says he has never gotten out for less then 4000b and I was with him the last time they did it and it wasn't "free".... The dealer does NOT do "free work".... That's a hook and nothing more...

Some mention of some secret internal network of issues to be addressed is nonsense too, if it's that serious they have a safety responsibility to divulge it publicly and if they didn't that extends beyond Thai law it is International as vehicles are exported world wide and no way to keep them exclusive to a specific market it is certain it would leak out eventually causing them even more strife, PR damage and potential lawsuits just like Toyota similarly experienced recently, so again, nonsense..

[yabaaaa]

Hi

I think its normal everywhere in the world that you have your car serviced with Ford (if you buy a Ford) yes? no?

No certainly NOT in the Uk anyone can service it, they stamped out this bad practice some years go and I suspect it applies to all of Europe too.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer_leaflets/cars/oft707.pdf

I checked it covers all eu nations

The Law

In October 2003, European Union legislation affecting the motor trade came into force. Its full title is 'Block Exemption Regulations 1400/2002' (in short 'BER'). This legislation changes the way cars may be serviced and repaired, and gives motorists a lot more freedom in their decision about who should look after their cars.

The BER covers areas such as who can service vehicles other than agents appointed by manufacturers and, more specifically to customers who are considering a Tubi Style sports exhaust, parts that can be fitted to a vehicle. Below we draw upon in particular the issues that concern fitting replacement parts to a vehicle that are not the manufacturer's original equipment.

The BER introduces certain definitions of importance to the independent aftermarket. There is a new definition of 'original spare parts' and 'matching quality parts' that is based on the quality of the component. Vehicle warranties cannot be invalidated if these conditions are met:

•Where parts used are of matching quality as the component used for the assembly of a motor vehicle. (A Tubi Style exhaust is manufactured from a higher quality material than OEM exhausts: 304-grade stainless steel, and are manufactured using internationally-certified practices. Spare parts of "matching quality" identifies parts in the following way: spare parts made by any undertaking which can certify at any moment that the parts in question match the quality of the components which are or were used for the assembly of the motor vehicles in question.)

•Where parts used are of the same specifications and production standards as those used by the Vehicle Assemblers. (A Tubi Style exhaust is designed to fit to OE mounting parts and components such as catalysts without any modifications (including cutting, welding and bending of any OE parts). Its fitting is a simple bolt-on bolt-off process which can be reversed or replaced at any time without causing damage to the vehicle or OE components.)

•Where parts manufacturers/suppliers are able to issue a quality certificate. (Tubi Style exhausts are certified compliant by the strict guidelines set out by the EU-recognised TÜV and internationally-recognised ISO 9001. Very few aftermarket exhaust manufacturers have such certifications.)

An interesting point is that if the vehicle manufacturer itself offers spare parts of differing quality (e.g. an "economy" or "premium line"), he cannot prohibit its contractual partners (i.e. dealers and authorised repairers) from buying spare parts of the same quality from the independent market.

The BER also covers service and maintenance during the warranty period and prohibits vehicle manufacturers' warranties from including conditions requiring that all parts used must be the VA's "original spare parts".

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION DECLARED THAT SUCH CLAUSES IN A WARRANTY DOCUMENT WOULD REPRESENT 'AN UNJUSTIFIED RESTRICTION FOR THE CONSUMER

Edited July 26, 2010 by yabaaaa

[yabaaaa]

Hi

I think its normal everywhere in the world that you have your car serviced with Ford (if you buy a Ford) yes? no?

I beleive now in the UK you can have your vehicle serviced by an independent dealer providing they are VAT registered and use the manufacturers parts in doing so without voiding the warranty. Also i don't know if the law there that also protects you if you modify the vehicle ie tune the engine then the warranty is voided on that and any part directly connected to it, but parts that are not like the air con blower etc are still covered. I presume in Thailand all the under three year old vehicles running around on non manufacturer aftermarket wheels have technically voided their warranty.

No you dont have to use manufaturers parts.

[aussiebebe]

Hi GaryK - just wondering is this the Ford Ranger you wrote about buying at auction a while back? I'm thinking, could that explain the cancelled warranty in some way?

BTW I'm in the same position as you re: the missus.

'If you want to leave, leave. I really don't care. But she won't leave. LOL'

sounds just like my situation. On the warranty front, there can't of been more than a year or so left anyway, so as long as the motor is sound, no harm done. Now, if only wives came with warranties......

[Deeral]

"The main dealer will be aware of any manufacture problems via the manufacturers on line network to look out for stuff OR put right a none fault that they want to keep quiet about and be totally ' up ' on their product." - you HAVE to be joking!

[Deeral]

Some people seem to have blind faith in the manufacturers agents - as if by some magic they are "better" mechanic or engineers than anybody else.

Let's face it if they can get hold of a sign with a makers name on it, that's just about all they need.........

It's the same as in hospitals - people believe anyone in a white coat....whatever they say.

I must say I was pissed off when I asked about options on pickups and found that in Thailand there are NONE - so I then said I'd l;ike to raise the suspension 2 inches and fit different wheels....that would void the guarantee, I was told. So the answer I suppose is to buy 1 to 3 year old second-hand and see what guarantee I can extract from the dealer.

[Deeral]

"The main dealer will be aware of any manufacture problems via the manufacturers on line network to look out for stuff OR put right a none fault that they want to keep quiet about and be totally ' up ' on their product." - you HAVE to be joking!

Well how else do they track stuff, inform their outlets of probs, Thai mail. is Joe Bloggs Garage on their mailing list.

You really are making huge assumptions about firstly the Thai agents and secondly the incompetence of Joe Bloggs

[WarpSpeed]

^I only have this to say to that assumption...... :cheesy: I would add though that my time is money and being burdened for long periods of time while incompetent mechanics tinker with my life and my car is not acceptable. My used car came with a warranty and it's never been back since, not that it hasn't had some issues from day one I knew it had and used them for my advantage when negotiating but most especially since they couldn't even recognize the &lt;deleted&gt; way it was running and make a simple tuning and injector adjustment and that is just one example. We stood there for hours with our 2 boys while they fumbled around with minor items that should have been fixed before delivery and their level of ignorance was astounding and frustrating to the point I told them, no more! I'd handle it myself..

The best warranty in the business is one you never have to take advantage of anyway....

Edited July 26, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Deeral]

Some people seem to have blind faith in the manufacturers agents - as if by some magic they are "better" mechanic or engineers than anybody else.

Let's face it if they can get hold of a sign with a makers name on it, that's just about all they need.........

It's the same as in hospitals - people believe anyone in a white coat....whatever they say.

I must say I was pissed off when I asked about options on pickups and found that in Thailand there are NONE - so I then said I'd l;ike to raise the suspension 2 inches and fit different wheels....that would void the guarantee, I was told. So the answer I suppose is to buy 1 to 3 year old second-hand and see what guarantee I can extract from the dealer.

We are talking about warranty, insurance for your ride, who cares if the main dealers mechanics are useless, they still have to fix the problem under it's warranty insurance.

I like the work done efficiently and porperly - not fussing around with some clerk in a service department who doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground.

I don't expect to have a company like Ford try and pick loop-holes when they sell a product that everyone agrees should last for years without problems and I certainly don't regard them as the only or even unbiased authority on their vehicles.

If you want to assume you have to kowtow to everything the company and their agents say - it's up to you, frankly I'd see a well serviced fully functioning car as my aim with or without Fords blessing. ...and I'm pretty certain the law would back me on most of it.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Deeral

[Daewoo]

So a sales guy told you something, and you believed him without double checking... gotta say, as a sales guy myself, if their lips are moving, they're lying ...

In Australia, you can get your servicing done by any licenced mechanic, but the manufacturer can void your warranty if they can show that by not using genuine parts/stealership servicing you contributed to the failure... and they are pretty loose with their interpretations of contribution...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[WarpSpeed]

"Stealership" it took me a second look and thought it was a typo at first but...................... :cheesy:

[JohnLeech]

This is the point l am trying to convey, why have the worry, like the OP has had to face. After warranty who cares who does it.

I think that's the point most people who prefer reality to imagination appear to agree on. Why deliberately create potential problems for yourself when they can so easily be avoided, just so you can tell everyone how clever you are here?

[MikeyIdea]

After reading all the replies l still believe that a manufacturer should service and keep an eye on THEIR product for warranty purposes. ANYBODY can produce a false service document from Joe Blogs garage. Really it's common sense that the manufacturer should be aware of their products history under their care..

Exactly!

Well. if they provide that service as part of the purchase price, then I would agree with you. Otherwise, it is nonsense.

I totally agree with the common sense part from the prevoius poster

One could wonder if there is a reason why only people who passed training are allowed to work as mechanics at authorised garages. Perhaps it's generosity of the manufacturer to provide nice wall-decorating material. Part of the training is confirmation that the people know how to do the job of changing things that need changing, part of it is to learn what to check too, regardless of it needs changing or not...

OK, You let untrained people mess around with stuff that you provide warranty for and then you fix it for free when it breaks down. In 98.9% of the cases it'll work fine, in 1% the missed check will make the fix cost more than it would have had the part been replaced earlier and in 0.1% of the cases you get a class action suit for something rediculous from people who didn't get hurt one bit but only see an opportunity to make money

This is Thailand and all Thais know that you have to service your car at an authorised dealer or you lose your warranty

Edited July 27, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

Hi

I think its normal everywhere in the world that you have your car serviced with Ford (if you buy a Ford) yes? no?

I beleive now in the UK you can have your vehicle serviced by an independent dealer providing they are VAT registered and use the manufacturers parts in doing so without voiding the warranty. Also i don't know if the law there that also protects you if you modify the vehicle ie tune the engine then the warranty is voided on that and any part directly connected to it, but parts that are not like the air con blower etc are still covered. I presume in Thailand all the under three year old vehicles running around on non manufacturer aftermarket wheels have technically voided their warranty.

No you dont have to use manufaturers parts.

In Thailand you have to use manufacturers parts or you void your warranty, which country are you talking about?

Edit: corrected spelling mistake

Edited July 27, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Not been living in Europe since 2000 so i guess thats why, i just think i remember that back then you have to use Ford if you buy Ford, Toyota if you buy Toyota, but look like i am wrong, i allways use the dealer if somethings wrong think they have the best tools anyway so to save a few Baht, not worth it i think