What Do You Drive?

[brommers]

I have a Honda City, cheap to buy, well made & spec'd, reliable, fuel efficient, & low cost to service. There are two of us & we often have one or two friends with us in complete comfort, & all the luggage etc fits easily into the boot.

I regularly drive all over CM province & at least twice a year do the 900 kms to Buriram in about 12 hours including rest breaks. Never have I been on any road, or even track that has been a problem, so unless you intend to go truly off road frequently I would say that a 4x4 or any 4x2 is not a practical necessity. In many places a large vehicle is an absolute pain to park or even drive down narrow town & village roads, and fuel here is not cheap so you need to factor that into your thinking.

I honestly see no reason other than vanity for buying anything larger than my compact sedan if you will be living in town & doing the normal tourist stuff. And you can always hire a truck for those times when you want to bundu bash.

[neverdie]

The disadvantages of owning a 4x4 as to owning a 4x2 car or ute are (some generalisation here, but should be considered)

• having to often replace 4 tyres at once in stead of rotating Tryes and replacing two tyres at a time

Huh? Can you explain why you state this, please.

[neverdie]

Why women especialy, want to drive a 4 wheel drive in a city environment is beyond me.

OK, so most of the time you don't really need 4WD. I'm wondering how often the average person encounters something more than a sedan can offer. What would you say the percentage is? 60on-road/40off? 70/30? 85/15 99/1?

You can get a 4 wheel drive stuck easier that a 2 wheel front drive.

Think about it.

4 wheel drive the power train is applied to all 4 wheels and in a slippery or muddy situation this gives you 4 wheels spinning you deeper into the mud

2 wheel front drive the power train drives the front 2 wheels only, meaning the back two wheels do not dig in deep to the mud

Trying to use percentages to quantify how many percent an average person does this or that is pretty ridiculous

Only you know your own driving habits and unless you have never driven in your whole life, what makes Thailand driving any different than anywhere else in the world

PS These Mountains in Chiang Mai are ant hills compared to the rest of the world

A honda wave can go up any Mountain in Chiang Mai with no problem

Are you seriously saying a 2WD will go where a 4WD will not?

Think about it 2WD you have 2 wheels driving and 2 wheels stuck in the mud requiring the other 2 wheels to get them through, 4WD all 4 wheels are doing the work. If you are spinning the wheels and digging in deeper you don't know what you are doing.

Have you ever driven in mud?

I think not.

Definately seems to be a case of NFI.

[Donnyboy]

if youre after a budget 4x4, get a Suzuki Samuri/Jimny,

did a offroad adventure course back home in NZ, and the places we went in that little offroader amazed me

Edited July 25, 2010 by Donnyboy

[harrry]

If you visit people on farms get a 4x4 for the wet season both for mud and for ground clearance remember thailand floods.

[harrry]

As to the question, "what do you drive " in my case its,

" my wife Crazy "

No Gonzo....You drive everyone crazy for them.

[Sparkles]

The Thai gov't, in their infinite wisdom, charges 3% excise tax on trucks and PPV's (think Fortuner, etc.).

The tariff is 17% I believe on the new eco-car category (Nissan March, etc.).

It is about 30% (correct me if I'm wrong; these are ballpark figures) on normal cars, sedans.

The pricing of vehicles here due to gov't tax heavily favors 1 ton pickup trucks. The SUV's slide by in the same category.

You can buy a new Toyota Vigo Hilux 1 ton pickup, loaded, with leather, power everything, DVD, GPS, etc. for less than many common humdrum sedans....

My understanding is that Thailand is the second largest market in the world, after the US, for domestic sales of 1 ton pickups, from an article in the BK Post biz section about a year ago.

It's no wonder everyone buys and drives these behemoths. They're cheaper to buy than a small car!

I appreciate the price differential,introduced by the Thai Government, in a world where people should being encouraged to drive a smaller vehicle that uses less fuel. I am not sure of the fuel consumption of the 4 wheel drives but must be close to twice of say a Honda Jazz or simlar.Over the life of the vehicle that would equate to a huge amount of money to travel the same distance.

[neverdie]

The Thai gov't, in their infinite wisdom, charges 3% excise tax on trucks and PPV's (think Fortuner, etc.).

The tariff is 17% I believe on the new eco-car category (Nissan March, etc.).

It is about 30% (correct me if I'm wrong; these are ballpark figures) on normal cars, sedans.

The pricing of vehicles here due to gov't tax heavily favors 1 ton pickup trucks. The SUV's slide by in the same category.

You can buy a new Toyota Vigo Hilux 1 ton pickup, loaded, with leather, power everything, DVD, GPS, etc. for less than many common humdrum sedans....

My understanding is that Thailand is the second largest market in the world, after the US, for domestic sales of 1 ton pickups, from an article in the BK Post biz section about a year ago.

It's no wonder everyone buys and drives these behemoths. They're cheaper to buy than a small car!

I appreciate the price differential,introduced by the Thai Government, in a world where people should being encouraged to drive a smaller vehicle that uses less fuel. I am not sure of the fuel consumption of the 4 wheel drives but must be close to twice of say a Honda Jazz or simlar.Over the life of the vehicle that would equate to a huge amount of money to travel the same distance.

I appreciate what you are stating and agree somewhat but at the end of the day theres really not much in that fuel saving argument. Its probably not fair to compare a Vigo with an Honda Jazz type vehicle as the latter of the two is somewhat smaller. Perhaps if you were to compare something slightly larger such as a Toyota Altis or Honda Civic then theres not much difference between the 7.5-8 litres per 100km that they are going to use and the Diesel Vigo/Dmax 9-10 litres per 100km. If one did a comparo on those rates based on an average travelling distance of 20,000km per year you'd be looking at a saving of 17,000 to 20,000 baht per year.

A Vigo with all the bells and whistles 2wd is going to set you back about 800,000 baht verses a Civic with all the bells and whistles at 1,100,000 baht. Its my understanding that it all comes down to monthly repayments & the pickups are going to be cheaper on this basis.

You would need to keep the vehicle 15-18 years to break even on the old fuel consumption arguement & I didnt even start trying to factor in fuel arguments about which fuel is cheaper or less/more efficient. It seems evident to me that the Thais will choose the pickup & of course you can load it up with more people & goods which gives these vehicle another tick.

Of course, if the vehicles were evenly taxed by the govt, then a few may make choices that relate to comfort and features as I know myself I would much rather travel around in a fully opted Civic over the harsher riding Vigo anyday, unless of course I was travelling on country roads where some of the potholes and road obsticles are as big as a Honda Jazz.

[Fishenough]

4x4's are great, nothing like being stuck on those remote roads mentioned, that red wet clay is as slippery as ice, and whilst working on extracting the bogged vehicles you'll present only a slightest obstacle to Grandma driving a twenty year old Honda Dream.

4wd is necessary for boat launching at the undeveloped boat launches at the multitude of reservoirs in the North.

[simoncnx]

Well, I wanted a pickup because often i need to carry stuff in the back - fridges, rice husks etc. I was going to buy the toyota prerunner - toyota because of service everywhere lowest depreciation, easy to sell 2nd hand, good reliability and prerunner because i wanted the extra ground clearance. But the prerunner didnt come with abs and passenger airbag when i looked 2 years ago and also smart cab. So i was basically forced to buy the 4wd. actually never have had to use 4wd but in the instructions they say you must engage 4wd for at least 18km a month to keep the diff lubricated. Also the guy who says 2wd is front wheel driven is WRONG. Fuel consumption between a 2 wd and a 4wd in 2wd i would think is negligable. I have averaged 12km/lit (according to the onboard comp) and it burns diesel which is cheaper than gasoline. Cost me 775000. Although some people say it will turn over more easily because its higher, they may be right but higher you get far better visibility and so i would say its safer

Edited July 25, 2010 by simoncnx

[xen]

The disadvantages of owning a 4x4 as to owning a 4x2 car or ute are (some generalisation here, but should be considered)

• having to often replace 4 tyres at once in stead of rotating Tryes and replacing two tyres at a time

Huh? Can you explain why you state this, please.

Gidday Neverdrive, What i meant ,and i did perface it saying it was a list of generalizations, was that if you are driving in 4 wheel drive a lot then 4 tryes will wear out quicker. This is especilally true if you have a constant 4x4 or an allwheel drive like a subaru.

[neverdie]

The disadvantages of owning a 4x4 as to owning a 4x2 car or ute are (some generalisation here, but should be considered)

• having to often replace 4 tyres at once in stead of rotating Tryes and replacing two tyres at a time

Huh? Can you explain why you state this, please.

Gidday Neverdrive, What i meant ,and i did perface it saying it was a list of generalizations, was that if you are driving in 4 wheel drive a lot then 4 tryes will wear out quicker. This is especilally true if you have a constant 4x4 or an allwheel drive like a subaru.

Ohhh, okay, I wasnt comprehending, no fault of yours. Im not sure about the fortuner or the other similar options in Thailand but the Vigos & competition are two wheel drive (with opt for 4x4 in the four wheel drive models). As somebody already said, you need to engage 4x4 on those models for a few km every month to keep seals moist & move oil about but its not advisable to do so on a dry, clean hard surface.

One thing I like about the 4x4 & higher 4x2 options is you generally sit abit higher, which is good for viewing up ahead, the flipside being the higher centre of gravity & handling.

Simoncnx states he gets 12km per litre, I wonder what engine he's using, thats great milage about 8 litre per 100km. Makes the fuel comparo difference with the Civic/Altis almost non existent.

[IanForbes]

I only have Motorbikes because I'm not a resident of Thailand.. There really isn't any need for a 4x4 vehicle unless you like exploring the back country. Or, if you own a farm where you have to drive on fields. The D-Tracker is a pretty good motorcycle if you like driving the back country.

[Shipwreck]

As somebody already said, you need to engage 4x4 on those models for a few km every month to keep seals moist & move oil about but its not advisable to do so on a dry, clean hard surface.

So, if I buy a 4x4 or a 4x2 with 4x4 capabilities, all I need to do is to drive 18km a month 'offroad' - keeping everything moist and moving?

That doesn't seem too hard to do.

[vagabond48]

I don't own a car or motorcycle (yet) so here are a couple of my transportation of choice ............

Edited July 25, 2010 by vagabond48

[neverdie]

As somebody already said, you need to engage 4x4 on those models for a few km every month to keep seals moist & move oil about but its not advisable to do so on a dry, clean hard surface.

So, if I buy a 4x4 or a 4x2 with 4x4 capabilities, all I need to do is to drive 18km a month 'offroad' - keeping everything moist and moving?

That doesn't seem too hard to do.

No, I never said it was hard to do, but make sure you do it on the right sort of surface. Of course they are also slightly more expensive to service.

[Blinky Bill]

Definately seems to be a case of NFI.

Plenty of that on this thread, neverdie.

[neverdie]

Definately seems to be a case of NFI.

Plenty of that on this thread, neverdie.

What is a 4 x 2 with 4x4 capabilities?

[Blinky Bill]

Definately seems to be a case of NFI.

Plenty of that on this thread, neverdie.

What is a 4 x 2 with 4x4 capabilities?

This has got to be the statement of the week................

4 wheel drive the power train is applied to all 4 wheels and in a slippery or muddy situation this gives you 4 wheels spinning you deeper into the mud

2 wheel front drive the power train drives the front 2 wheels only, meaning the back two wheels do not dig in deep to the mud

[xen]

I think he means one of the 4x2 pick-ups that have the raised suspension and the other extras like roo bars etc to look like a 4x4. Why you would do that to a pick-up i don't really know.( okay.... there is that vision thing) . Some of the low sleek pick-ups look so much better and handle the highway better (in my opinion).

Incidently i have had a couple of 2-3 tonne trucks with dual rear wheels that could handle mud and mush and bush tracks as well as most fancy 4x4. Especially if u keep them in as higher gear as possible so they float across the mud. However they are not as felexible as a shorter wheel base vehicle tho. Not too sure if i would take into sand dunes tho. A VW beetle would handle sand as well as most 4x4s.

[ozzydave]

The disadvantages of owning a 4x4 as to owning a 4x2 car or ute are (some generalisation here, but should be considered)

1. Higher fuel consumption
2. having to often replace 4 tyres at once in stead of rotating Tryes and replacing two tyres at a time
3. higher cost of tyres
4. Not as safe at higher highway speeds because of higher centre of gravity ( unless you are travelling in 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive)
5. Higher risk of spinal injury in an accident because of higher chance of roll over
6. A lot more road noise due to off road tyres, both inside the cabin and those who live near to the road
7. Rougher/stiffer ride
8. More difficult to parallel park, / reverse park because of less rear vision
9. More chance of killing other people in smaller cars in a collision .

These are all reasons i tried to convince my mother in law why not to get a Fortuner but being Hi-So and being able to impress the neighbours triumphed over everything . Now most of the time it remains in the garage because it is too difficult to drive to Big C .

With some perspective;

1. if fuel cost is the issue - many modern turbo diesel engines are nearly the same as a car , particulalry if you carry any goods / equipment
2. 4wd uses only the (typically) rear wheels for drive under normal usage - tyres can be rotated normally - AWD have less tyre wear PER tyre, but need replace 4 at one time (read BIG hit on tyre costs at one time)
3. same tyre cost as a hi performance car
4. better visibility allows you to read the road ahead better (well maybe in some places)
5. i think U will find its not legal to swerve and cause an accident - unlikley to fall over on the highway at the legal limits
6. nothing the CD player cant solve - same noise from truck tyres on the highway
7. with correct suspension the ride is as good or better than many sedans
8. use the mirrors - thats what they are for - really few people can reverse park properly (specially in TH) so this lmost mute point
9. more chance of survival - avoid collision!

The otherside of the picture;

• few people actually know how to engage 4wd - why do they NEED a 4wd ???
• driver ability, tyres, clearance has a LOT to do with off road capability
• a 2wd suits 99.9% of the people 99% of the time

Why a 4WD is NEEDED - simply show / status symbol. Back in my home town 10% of the local cars are 4WD - but then they are actually USED off road on the farms - different environments different reasons

As you can guess I DO have a 4wd, but its has done over 40K km of OFF ROAD usage - this his 10x more than many will do in a lifetime. I go (or try) offroad as often as work & family permit. For this you need to get way from the cities (and another reason for boys weekend).

[Donnyboy]

The Thai gov't, in their infinite wisdom, charges 3% excise tax on trucks and PPV's (think Fortuner, etc.).

The tariff is 17% I believe on the new eco-car category (Nissan March, etc.).

It is about 30% (correct me if I'm wrong; these are ballpark figures) on normal cars, sedans.

The pricing of vehicles here due to gov't tax heavily favors 1 ton pickup trucks. The SUV's slide by in the same category.

You can buy a new Toyota Vigo Hilux 1 ton pickup, loaded, with leather, power everything, DVD, GPS, etc. for less than many common humdrum sedans....

My understanding is that Thailand is the second largest market in the world, after the US, for domestic sales of 1 ton pickups, from an article in the BK Post biz section about a year ago.

It's no wonder everyone buys and drives these behemoths. They're cheaper to buy than a small car!

I appreciate the price differential,introduced by the Thai Government, in a world where people should being encouraged to drive a smaller vehicle that uses less fuel. I am not sure of the fuel consumption of the 4 wheel drives but must be close to twice of say a Honda Jazz or simlar.Over the life of the vehicle that would equate to a huge amount of money to travel the same distance.

no

getting 14-15 kms/ltr isnt that uncommon for a Toyota Vigo

there was a Vigo TV ad stating you could do CM- Phuket on a tank of gas =1500kms Vigo holds 75ltr diesel = 20kms/ltr, maybe ambitious, but probably if you stuck to a high gear and not running too hard, it could be done?

Not bad considering the size, and close to double the weight of a Jazz

a thread was running in the motoring forum

[neverdie]

A VW beetle would handle sand as well as most 4x4s.

You must mean a modified VW beetle? Because having done a bit of Sand driving in my day, accross a few different deserts in a few different countries, I don't think so. Of course, there is 4x4's and then theres real 4x4's designed for real offroad driving......but now we are entering a area way off topic.

[Dellboy218]

Only a few days ago my wife and I were stuck in a long queue,close to opening time, driving up the ramp into the Airport Plaza parking araea. The hold up was caused by a Thai lady trying to manouvre,in reverse gear, her monster 4 wheel drive into a parking space. Getting out she looked quite traumatised by the experience. Why women especialy, want to drive a 4 wheel drive in a city environment is beyond me. How many Thai/Falang drivers want to go off road ? not many I would suggest. Always intrigued me ,is it a status thing ? do they feel safer ? one of life's great mysteries.

I know my wife for one would not change back to a saloon car. Like a lot of women apparently, she feels a whole lot safer sitting higher up. Lets face it, it can be intimidating stuck in traffic on The Hangdong road when all you can see is the bottom of door and boot sills. And no, I do not drive my Fortuner down narrow Soi's or anywhere else it is unsuitable for, common sense has to rule. Two wheels or a Tuk Tuk. Maybe not in the city but if you do travel across country then a good ground clearance I would say is necessary. Road works are usually in progress somewhere and any diversions are usually only for pick ups. I drive to Ubon several times a year and the last time I had a Saloon car there was a T junction with traffic lights where the road in front had been dug up with a foot drop and then thick mud all the way. A while back at Denchai, truckers blocked off the main highway in a protest with traffic diverted across paddy fields. You never know whats up front and at 13km per litre I am not going to change anytime soon and being a single car family, this one has to do the lot.

[mcgriffith]

LRB, you are probably right about the 1 ton thing.

I went to Toyota Thailand's web page and nowhere did I find specs on carrying capacity.

Probably should have used the term "full size pickup".

I considered buying an eco car (Nissan March) recently.

I'm getting on in years, and the Wave/CBR 150 thing is getting a bit stale, especially in (this year's) hot season and now in rainy season.

No doubt for daily use a scooter is the way to go in CM. Tiny narrow sois, limited parking, and horrific traffic at certain times on main roads like Huay Kaew.

I'm back to looking at a Hilux Vigo, or something similar.

Would be nice to go to Carrefour in pouring rain on Superhighway and not feel like I will be roadkill at any moment.

Nice to contemplate a road trip to Mae Hong Son, no matter the season.

Wonderful to be able to put the CBR or the Wave, strapped down in back of the pickup, and head to Krabi for a week of diving (and have my own bike while there).

Nothing against the pickups from me; I agree they are impossible in CM traffic....but very good value for money.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

4x4, no doubt about it. Even around town you sometimes get stuck in a (rear wheel drive) 4x2, sometimes just a ditch or a muddy patch is enough.

As for furl economy, I can do 17 kms to a litre of diesel if I put my mind to it. So no issues there either.

[jackr]

Unless you're planning on taking the back route up Doi Suthep via Huay Tung Tao lake, a 2wd will be fine. Can't see the point in paying the extra for something you invariably will never need and then forking out extra to keep it maintained, more fuel burned etc. Each to their own though if you like the sticker.

Had a Pre-runner, took her offroad several times, including the muddy route from the back end of Wat Doi Saket up to the top shrine before it was sealed and in the wet. Went like a dream, smooth, quiet and never got stuck anywhere in three years. Well proportioned, too, as the height and wheels on a standard Vigo make it look daft, like a boat almost. Extra height good for looking over cars to prepare to dodge the inevitable crash up front as well as for looking over hedges. Fuel economy good and pulled like a good un with a ton's worth of trees on the back... (2 ton vehicle btw McG).

[LJW]

Unless you're planning on taking the back route up Doi Suthep via Huay Tung Tao lake, a 2wd will be fine. Can't see the point in paying the extra for something you invariably will never need and then forking out extra to keep it maintained, more fuel burned etc. Each to their own though if you like the sticker.

Had a Pre-runner, took her offroad several times, including the muddy route from the back end of Wat Doi Saket up to the top shrine before it was sealed and in the wet. Went like a dream, smooth, quiet and never got stuck anywhere in three years. Well proportioned, too, as the height and wheels on a standard Vigo make it look daft, like a boat almost. Extra height good for looking over cars to prepare to dodge the inevitable crash up front as well as for looking over hedges. Fuel economy good and pulled like a good un with a ton's worth of trees on the back... (2 ton vehicle btw McG).

Even in a 2-wheel drive, i had no problem from Huay Tung Tao to Doi Suthep

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Unless you're planning on taking the back route up Doi Suthep via Huay Tung Tao lake, a 2wd will be fine. Can't see the point in paying the extra for something you invariably will never need and then forking out extra to keep it maintained, more fuel burned etc. Each to their own though if you like the sticker.

Had a Pre-runner, took her offroad several times, including the muddy route from the back end of Wat Doi Saket up to the top shrine before it was sealed and in the wet. Went like a dream, smooth, quiet and never got stuck anywhere in three years. Well proportioned, too, as the height and wheels on a standard Vigo make it look daft, like a boat almost. Extra height good for looking over cars to prepare to dodge the inevitable crash up front as well as for looking over hedges. Fuel economy good and pulled like a good un with a ton's worth of trees on the back... (2 ton vehicle btw McG).

Even in a 2-wheel drive, i had no problem from Huay Tung Tao to Doi Suthep

Right, and then it rains, and becomes a different ball game entirely. Wet vs dry makes an unbelievable difference.

[LJW]

Unless you're planning on taking the back route up Doi Suthep via Huay Tung Tao lake, a 2wd will be fine. Can't see the point in paying the extra for something you invariably will never need and then forking out extra to keep it maintained, more fuel burned etc. Each to their own though if you like the sticker.

Had a Pre-runner, took her offroad several times, including the muddy route from the back end of Wat Doi Saket up to the top shrine before it was sealed and in the wet. Went like a dream, smooth, quiet and never got stuck anywhere in three years. Well proportioned, too, as the height and wheels on a standard Vigo make it look daft, like a boat almost. Extra height good for looking over cars to prepare to dodge the inevitable crash up front as well as for looking over hedges. Fuel economy good and pulled like a good un with a ton's worth of trees on the back... (2 ton vehicle btw McG).

Even in a 2-wheel drive, i had no problem from Huay Tung Tao to Doi Suthep

Right, and then it rains, and becomes a different ball game entirely. Wet vs dry makes an unbelievable difference.

Wet or dry, no problem for me.