Bummer At Bumrungrad

[Bouffant]

I've been going to Bumrungrad regularly over the last 8 years for routine medical care and have long been a huge fan of Bumrungrad. I live in Indonesia where local medical care is very poor so local medical treatment is not an option for me.

I had not been there in about 2 years and had heard it was getting pricier, so this time when I was there I "spot checked" the prices, occasionally asking how much a doctor visit or test was going to be. Each time I checked the price sounded fine.

Normally I visit Bumrugrad over about three days doing whatever I need to do and my bill is usually about $350-$500 USD, total, including medicine, which I've always purchased there at Bumrungrad for convenience although I've known it would be a bit cheaper at an independent pharmacy.

I am admittedly not a math wizard and obviously didn't do my mental currency conversions well each time I pulled out my credit card to pay. When I got back to Indonesia and my credit card bill came for my Bumrungrad charges, I was dismayed to find the total this time at about $2000! I did strictly routine stuff- mammogram, bone density test, cholesterol test, eye test, etc.

So that's my first complaint. This price is ridiculous for what I had done!

My next complaint: I have been seeing neurologists there for years about my migraines and they have lots of records on me. I've never really pressed hard for pain killers. I felt they addressed this need inadequately but I never felt like fighting about it and understand their caution to a certain degree.

In the U.S., where I'm from originally, the treatment for serious migraine problems always includes these three types of medications: preventative medications (something non-narcotic and non addictive that you take every day to try to keep the migraines from happening in the first place) , abortive medications (something non-narcotic and non addictive that you take at the onset of a migraine to hopefully stop it) , and "rescue" medications to fall back on when the first two don't work which are real painkillers that carry a risk of addiction if abused. This is universally accepted in the US, seems humane as well as appropriate, speaking as a migraine sufferer.

This time at Bumrungrad I figured they had several years to get to know me and, judging from all the consultations and non narcotic drugs I have tried for my migraines, I felt it should be clear that I genuinely suffer from migraines and am not just a vacationer trying to get opiates for fun. So for the first time I complained politely about the ridiculous and inappropriate painkillers they were giving to me, including the eye rolling by the young neurologist at the end of my visit when I requested the painkillers as backup.

I spoke with the customer relations people who handle complaints, and they explained to me that it was hospital policy to give all patients (presumably and hopefully excluding those who have terminal cancer) the same amount of codeine or opiate-containing painkillers. The amount they will give you is less than the amount you can buy without a prescription in Canada. In other words, so ridiculously low that they are not good for much more than perhaps a hangover and certainly not enough to treat a serious migraineur's pain when the other drugs fail. It's a tiny token amount that is same for all patients regardless of situation, history or medical complaint!

This infuriated me- I was not being treated as an individual; I was being treated by a hospital policy without regard to my own medical condition, history, etc. That is not good medical treatment.

Next complaint: The strictly routine, standard mammogram and ultrasound at Bumrungrad cost as much as they cost in the U.S. which has the most expensive medical care in the world.

Next complaint: My gynecologist found something very small but of concern on my mammogram and felt I should speak with a surgeon about a biopsy. The surgeon they sent me to was in the Urology Dept, not the Cancer Dept and he was a general surgeon rather than a breast cancer specialist. This doctor had a supercilious, aloof demeanor and I left my consultation with him quite baffled. Since my plane flight was scheduled to leave Thailand the next day, he said waiting 3 weeks wouldn't hurt anything. Thank goodness I didn't panic and let that guy work on me. I took the three weeks to fly back to my home in Indonesia and, through my own social network, I got the name of an excellent breast cancer expert at Bangkok Nursing Hospital and will be flying back to consult with him, get the biopsy if he concurs that the biopsy is the way to go and rest assured I am in excellent hands.

Meanwhile during these three weeks I wrote to Bumrungrad explaining that I needed a breast cancer biopsy and asking the name of the type of biopsy the doctor had suggested as I had forgotten during the consultation to write it down and to ask for the cost.

Breast cancer isn't something to mess around with. Yet I had to email 5 times over nearly the whole three weeks to finally get the doctor to answer me about type of biopsy he had prescribed and the cost. These were polite, succinct emails. I think it is shocking that they did not provide me with the answers to these two simple questions promptly in order to give me the information I needed to take care of myself or make knowledgeable inquiries with other doctors!

I will never go to Bumrungrad again except to pick up my medical records.

[moe666]

Poor care happens every were.

[SamuiHomemadeFood]

Been there a few times for treatment and apart from being a little expensive always found it to be of the highest standards for care and attention. Try to remember just how much you would be paying for similar care back in the Good ol USA !

[Sheryl]

re the cost issue:

1. Did you get an itemized bill? If not, request one.

2. Go over the bill carefully, mistakes are not uncommon. You also need to check the bill against the credit card charge as slip ups can occur there as well.

3. Was the mammogram part of the comprehensive health screening package? If so total charge for that package should be about US $500 per their website.

4. Bone density scans are not included in any of their check up packages (stupidly, but this seems common in Thailand, none of the check up packages are particulalry well designed and especially not so for women). I don't know about Bumrungrad but other top end hospitals they do cost about Us $200.

5. Even so, hard to see where $2000 comes in, so do review the itemized bill carefully. It should show the amount for medications, the health package, etc etc.

6. Re the pain medication problem, this is common in Thailand and I agree, frustrating. I have gotten feedback from others that there has been some sort of "policy" introduced in Bumrungrad that is causing irrational decisions at patient level on this score. Possibly they got some flack about the extent of opiate usage. You may do a bit better with another doctor/hospital but frankly getting opiates is always a struggle in Thai hospitals and getting more so. Best option is a western-trained specialist in pain management (and have all your records with you to show what has already been tried, or better get a medical summary from your doctor back home that specifies what you need).

7. Re your breast mass, what you really need for your next consult s not the type of biopsy recommended by the doc you already saw (who doesn't sound too sharp) but the actual mammogram and ultrasound films, which you can get if you present yourself at Bumrungrad and demand it. The films, not the reports. this way the doctor you consult will be able to see for himself and decide what approach is best.

8. Never, ever allow the hospital staff to decide which doctor to send you to. Always choose yourself, even if you have to zip down to the internet kiosk to do so. More often than not the people making that decision for you will not even be medically trained. Even if they are, they'll shuffle you to whomever is least busy at the moment and often make mistakes as to type of specialist. Certainly you won't get the best that way; the best doctors will always be busy and entail a wait if no appointment. This holds true at other hospitals as well.

[THAILIBAN]

I think there are actually quite some good medical centers in Jakarta (did u ever try that small international clinic next to Mega Kuningan ? Facing the Marriott where the bomb went off in July 2009) where you could get those things done.....

and did you ever try KL or Singapore ? I am sure that even Singapore isn't more expensive than Bumrungrad, which admittedly is indeed expensive (though in my case, they probably saved my life back in 2006, so I have no reason to complain)

[bumrungrad]

Hello Bouffant,

First, we would like to thank you for your loyal support of the hospital. We understand that your previous good experiences at the hospital makes your experience on this trip harder to accept, and we very much appreciate your feedback.

Next, apologies for the slow response, this just came to my attention. Your message has been picked up and brought to our senior management, and we would like to understand the issues better.

We have tried to determine who you are from your message, but we don't have enough details. Could you please PM me your name and your email (it would be best if you could send me the one you used to correspond with the hospital email team, or the one we would have on our records)?

If it is ok, our international patient team will then be in contact to work with you on the issues you brought up. Your open communication with that team will go a long way in helping us improve our services; I would like to thank you in advance for anything you can offer.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[Bouffant]

Hi, All,and thanks for your comments,

As for the individual representing Bumrungrad- thanks, but I prefer to remain anonymous in terms of staff at Bumrungrad knowing who complained about them online. I may need to use Bumrungrad from time to time but I will do so only in a pinch. As a foreigner, Bumrungrad is easy, one-stop-shopping. If you want a good price for good care it can be done in Thailand but you can't just breeze into town anymore and count on Bumrungrad to fill that role for you. It's a shame.

Sheryl,

Thanks for your input. Why must we always learn things the heard way? You are right- we must carefuly choose our doctors, compare prices and manage our medical care every step of the way.

Yes; I did ask for an itemized bill. No mistake. I just didn't realize I had to ask every single time EXACTLY what it was going to cost. I was only "spot checking". They caught me unawares. I never thought to ask in advance how much the mammogram was going to be; they'd usually been just over a hundred bucks.... in the US. $400+ at Bumrungrad! There were some ridiculous charges for vitamins they said I needed. If I'd only known I would have just gotten them elsewhere.

Recently I was quoted $750 at Bumrungrad for a routine type procedure and then $1500 for the exact same procedure three weeks later at Bumrungrad. I don't want to give too many more details because, like I said, I'm still somewhat entangled there and it will take me some time to get completely away from there. (I "talked big" about just picking up my records, but it hasn't been that easy. It's hard to replace all your doctors at once. And it's too bad because I really like a few of my Bumrungrad doctors.)

No, I had not gone for a "package" when I got the mammogram; I was just getting what I thought should be done taken care of like I always had in the past when I had visited Bumrungrad.

Bumrungrad is just swamped. They have so much business, they no longer care about being reasonably-priced and are out to make as much money as possible. I sincerely hope another hospital will pick up their former business model and become "the go-to place where you know you can count on good prices, conveneince and good care".

I was completely appalled at the state of my medical records from Bumrungrad. Forms filled out so incompletely with nothing but quick, illegible scribbles on them. And here I thought I would have years of medical history I could turn over to another doctor. Most of the time they don't even write what the main purpose of the visit was *in the space provided*. They don't record what the doctor's specialty is. So now I can't really use their records to go and show another hosptal or doc that I have been seeking medical care from neurologists for years for my migraines, have tried all these different things to manage them and haven't been just asking for opiates.

It's true what you say- they just send you to whatever doctor is available and not who is best for you. They have some great docs and some stinkers- they are just too big and a zoo now. I have been quoted prices there recently- as I struggle to wean myself away from them- that are on par with U.S. prices.

I'm very upset and feel "stuck" and on my own now trying to find medical care from scratch as a tourist in Thailand who doesn't have a lot of time here and doesn't speak the language. I am part of the "captive audience" Bumrungrad has built up over the years by being so trustworthy *in the past*, which included very fair prices. Now they have changed and are grabbing the big bucks when people are vulnerable and turning to them when in need. I know I sound a bit emotional but it is an emotional situation for me. With the Bumrungrad representative here reading the posts I dont feel like I can explain my full situation while I would really like to, in order to help others avoid similar problems at Bumrungrad.

Bouffant, Bummed

[Bouffant]

Any comments/advice about how to manage these hospitals?

Everyone says BNH is as good or better (I have heard that t BNH is where the Thai royal family goes) with still highish but more fair prices. I have visited there recently and it is smaller and quieter over there so I don't think they are going to be as over-confident in their treatment of patients. I'm hoping that is the case. But the days of just turning it all over to Bumrungrad and resting assured are certainly over.

A very nice doc at Bumrungrad that I truly trust recommended to me (as a way to save money):

National Institute of Cancer near Victory Monument- I can't find a website for them- anybody know anything about them? Do I have the name wrong?

Chulalongkorn University Hospital- Rama IV Road

and

Ramathibodi University Hospital- Plyothai

A Thai friend (who no longer lives here) confirmed that the university hospitals are excellent, but that you have to be prepared to wait a long time, should go early in the morning (with a good book), and I am concerned about English being spoken.

Would very much appreciate any input/insights/tips!

[Lumumba]

I once had breast mumps, or so I thought, I showed it to my nice regular doc at Bumrungrad, he referred me to a skin doc, though the topical she prescribed was magical and cleared it in a few days, her demeanor was like I was bothering her.

I had to do a CT scan, normally they tell you the price and sometimes you pay upfront before the proceedure.

Apart from that incident, Bumrungrad has always been outstanding for me.

About BNH, most people do not what they are missing by not going there, from recent visits by a close friend of mine, it seems they work with several teaching hospitals including the red cross on speciality cases, even a treatment is new, they are on it before most business hospitals around town.

[padfoot]

I would be truly frightened of a hospital that fails to keep good records of their patients. Mistakes like that can cost a life.

[thaisomchai]

Eight years ago, I was a regular customer at Bumrungrad for my annual physical exams, but they lost me by not replying to my emails. (And I was just trying to set up an appointment.)

I switched over to Bangkok Hospital for a few years before landing with Bangkok Nursing Hospital . .where I am still going for annual exams. Bangkok Hospital was fine but I found it difficult to get to. (BNH is right in the center of things and near the hotels we usually use in the city. )

I like BNH because the doctors I have dealt with have given me their private email addresses and will always reply to my emails when I have a concern or question. (That . .IMHO . .is one measure of a good hospital these days.)

Another poster here is correct. It is smaller and quieter than either Bumrungrad or Bangkok Hospital.

My only gripe with BNH is their wildly over-priced dermatology clinic. Not sure why their dermatologists are in a much higher price range with regard to every procedure than their other doctors/departments. This sent me back to Bangkok Hospital for my last skin checkup for melanoma.

I sympathize with the OP. I have also run into doctors who thought they were god . .and once had to demand my records back and change doctors when my doctor at the time wouldnt listen to me. I went to him with a skin problem that I had looked up and was pretty sure about. I told him what it was and wanted his confirmation and medication to clear it up. He disagreed with me, misdiagnosed what it was and put me through three more weeks of suffering until I went to a specialist. The specialist took one look, agreed with MY diagnosis, treated me and I was cleared up in a week.

But with everything regarding health care, I believe it is so important to be your OWN advocate for your own health. I look up everything on the internet and wont take any medicine or undergo any procedure without finding out all I can about it on my own.Not that I dont trust doctors . .I DO . .but they are only well-educated partners/consultants in this business of keeping me healthy. The burden is on me and not them . .and I ask a LOT of questions.

Edited August 6, 2010 by thaisomchai

[t.s]

deeeeleted

Edited August 6, 2010 by t.s

[Bouffant]

I'd like to thank Sheryl for her help and for those of you who have voiced support for my frustrations.

Bumrungrad has really changed. All things change, but sadly this change is really a loss for expats in Southeast Asia and people from other countries who have come to Thailand for good and reasonably- priced medical care. It's sad for me to no longer be able to think of Bummer-Grad as a "reliable place for great prices, great care and one stop shopping" like have so many of us who travel to Thailand to take care of our medical care at Bumrungrad. They actually advertise the fact that they see a million patients a year. Do you want to go someplace that attempts to process a million patients a year? Maybe good for MacDonalds or Disneyland, but not for medical care.

Bumrungrad is now trying to position itself as "Almost Western Care at Almost Western Prices" instead of "the reliable place for great prices, great care and one stop shopping" it once was. They are not at all succeeding in providing almost Western care yet in my opinion and they certainly do not have the overhead expense to justify the prices. For those people who would like and can afford to go to the West for medical care but don't want to monkey with the visa hassles, Bumrungrad is for them, but not for the rest of us anymore.

Thaisomchai, you are SO RIGHT that you need to be your own medical advocate. That is what I learned in these last 6 weeks with my breast cancer scare, which, I am so happy to announce, turned out to be completely benign. Unfortunately I was unprepared to do that, I didn't know I needed to do that; I was used to trusting Bumrungrad! As a foreigner who has only visited Thailand about 8 times, I was completely unprepared to find alternative sources for second opinions while haggling over prices. I didn't even know how to get around town that well let alone how to find good doctors in their private clinics or find, approach or choose hospitals.

For people with lots of money or plenty of medical insurance, it appears to me that they can be pretty safe sticking to Bumrungrad, BNH and Bangkok Hospital and gathering their opinions from doctors found at those three sources, all the while being their own advocate. Not everyone is in that position financially and some have to look for good medical care without the deep pockets. If it had turned out that I had breast cancer or precancer, I would have been cast out into the big city of Bangkok, scared and frantically looking for advice, resources and doctors.

Bumrungrad is now mobbed with mostly medical tourists from the Middle East. Why on earth, when they are pumping people thru their clinics as fast as they can, would they consider keeping their prices down? What CEO is going to be that far-sighted. Like most corporations who win a good reputation with a good product, they then cash in on that reputation and "make hay while the sun shines", grabbing all the business they can as people discover the hard way that the product is no longer the value it once was.

Bumrungrad has kept its doctor visits close to the same prices but has jacked up everything else. I went for routine medical procedures this year as usual, not thinking that I needed to ask every single time what something was going to cost- I never had in the past. I was charged about $800 for a good digital mammogram. I wasn't expecting that. Since then I have made enquiries. I can get a good digital mammogram WITH two doctor visits at John's Hopkins in Singapore for about $200USD or in the town where I grew up in the U.S .for $200USD (without insurance).

I will say that there are still good doctors that I like very much at Bumrungrad.

Dr. Walailuk Chaiyarat is an oncologist with a specialty in breast cancer and is positively a medical superstar who would be an asset to any hospital anywhere in the world and is a godsend to a woman with a "funny-looking" mammogram. If anyone you know has a questionable mammogram, please- send them directly to Dr. Walailuk. If only I could have seen her before the breast surgeons.

Dr Spain in Behavioral Health is kind, caring, gentle and never makes you feel uncomfortable discussing your needs or psycho-pharmaceuticals.

My brilliant and compassionate radiologist, Dr. Sumate Rinsurongkawong, who explained- at last and in beautiful English- my "vacuum needle biopsy" to me, was so experienced and, I discovered via my own web search; he did not tell me, normally works at the National Cancer Institute. Their website is only in Thai language! How would a foreigner like me have found a gem like him? But luckily for me I did, and next time I need a mammogram I am heading over there. They have the same sophisticated equipment there and they only do cancer. If he is any indication of the quality of care at the National Cancer Institute, you have a cancer problem and no insurance or even if you do have insurance and don't want to be treated in place that is processing a million patients a year, I would head right over there.

Another thing I would do, but sadly this takes a lot more time in Bangkok than many of us have time to allocate, I would use the "find a doctor" function on the Bumrungrad website and then see if you can locate them at their private clinics or other hospitals in Bangkok if you need good care at a more reasonable price. The tip of trying to see the doctors in their private clinics in order to save money was one I got from someone here in this forum but at first I didn't understand how I would possibly do that as someone who doesn't live in Bangkok. Using the Bumrungrad Find A Doctor together with a web search using the doctors name seems like one way to do that if you don't have contacts In Bangkok.

I hope there will come to be an easily-searchable list of doctors that patients find in Bangkok so alternatives to Bumrungrad can be found for those who don't live in Bangkok or haven't been there very long.

If someone would put together a site- or a service- that provided reviews and medical resource information, I would certainly pay to use and would support that site or service!

In the meantime, I hope others- especially those of you who live in Thailand!- will share information about good doctors, doctors to avoid and alternative clinics and hospitals here. And I will be back, because I feel for the sake of others I need to report more of the really "bum" things that happened to me at Bumrungrad, but I thought I'd write tonight about the good doctors I found so as not to sound so negative as to not be credible.

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening.

[Rumpole]

I hope there will come to be an easily-searchable list of doctors that patients find in Bangkok so alternatives to Bumrungrad can be found for those who don't live in Bangkok or haven't been there very long.

If someone would put together a site- or a service- that provided reviews and medical resource information, I would certainly pay to use and would support that site or service!

Following your suggestion above to use the Bumrumgrad find-a-doctor facility and then use Google, I found this site:

http://www.mythaidoctors.com

which has a search function for doctors in Thailand, together with biography, workplaces, and (a limited number of) patient reviews.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Rumpole

[TCW]

I recently had treatment at Bangkok Hospital as an out-patient, which involved X rays and some tests, and I was extremely impressed by their care and attention, as well as their costs for the things I had carried out - which I was paying for myself. I had been advised that Bumrungrad and Bangkok Hospital were vitrually identical in terms of treatment and costs but that seems to have changed, reading through some of the topics on Thai Visa?

[Livinginexile]

I have had the same negative experience at Bumrungrad.

I had a simple middle ear infection that should have required some ear drops and a check-up.

The cost was over 3,000 bht and 6 medications that I didn't need.

I left feeling completely ripped off!

I will never go there again.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Livinginexile

[Macx]

I got an infection during surgery at Bumrungrad. After I hobbled up to see the VP of the hospital on my crutches, he agreed to give me about 30% of the total bill, saying that infection happens everywhere. I still ended up paying around $20K US. And then I spent another year in physical therapy, paying fully for everything myself.

I found out later that there was another American patient who had the same surgery and the same infection (MSSA)--a few months after my stay. Her husband was a lawyer and he went to "talk" to the hospital head. She was moved to a VIP room and underwent multiple surgery like I did. And her bill was WAIVED 100%--as in FREE.

[powderpuff]

Bangkok General Hospital will be very soon easily accessible from the SRT Airport train.

HRH the King uses Siriraj.

I use Samivited sometimes BGH & Thai Nakarin.

Thai Nakarin are very good & fair priced.

I have a gastorenerrologist who is world class.

[Bouffant]

That's fantastic! After my recent medical adventures I was feeling like I ought to do something like that myself. I am so looking forward to checking out this site! Thank you for that!

[Bouffant]

There is a member here from Bumrungrad who is doing his best to try to field comments made about the hospital on ThaiVisa. To him I want to say that I'm certain there is staff at Bumrungrad doing an outstanding job- I mentioned some of them. I'm certain there are people there who take pride in what they do, want Bumrungrad to provide the best possible care and genuinely care about the patients.

I just think there needs to be more quality control and standards that are monitored and enforced. It gets next to impossible when you are herding over a million patients a year through your facilty. Things are definitely going wrong. People are getting trampled; I got trampled. A few screw ups or bad apples will definitely reflect on the whole hospital's reputation.

I really can't blame Bumrungrad, as busy as it is, for raising their prices. I was just very disappointed because it wasn't the Bumrungrad anymore that I had known,respected, relied upon and appreciated so much. I used to go every year and then I did not go for three years. When I visited again recently it had changed a lot. I'm really going to miss having the resource there I once had. It's going to be MUCH more trouble to seek out medical care and go around to differnt places to see different doctors.

This site that Rumpole mentioned, MyThaiDoctors.com, doesn't seem really like anyone is minding the store- in a way that's a good thing because it makes it appear it isn't just an advertising front. But people get tired of pet projects that drain their time- it looks like this site isn't getting updated in terms of the blog, but at least people are putting their reviews up there (occasionally). By participating in something like that - or commenting here- we can empower the patient and help each other.

I appreciate the remarks of support from others here regarding my complaints and observations; I feared I was just going to sound like a cranky lady.

I'm going to put all my doctor reviews on mythaidoctors.com and perhaps here, too- I had a bit of a hard time doing good searches on ThaiVisa, but maybe I'm just not doing it right and don't know the ropes here well enough. I want others to be able to find the medical information they need, and I certainly am going to be needing resources for research for future medical adventures.

[Sheryl]

In the realm of suggestions, what I think would help most at both Bumrungrad and other hospitals that try to tap the international market is an English-speaking "ombudsman" office to which patients could bring their concerns early on. This is common in US hospitals and heavily utilized there to the mutual advantage of patients and hospitals, the latter in terms of reducing the risk of lawsuits by resolving issues well before they escalate to that point. Perhaps because there is less litigation in Thailand, this does not seem to exist here.

Actually what Scott (TV member Bumrungrad) ends up doing is a kind of ombudsman function but he's having to do it often well after the fact. On the spot intervention would be far more effective. Sometimes all that is amiss is miscommunication, there just isn't anyplace a patient can turn to to get clarity when that arises. The international services offices are staffed by administrative personnel who are not equipped/qualified for more than making appointments. This too is not unique to Bumrungrad, it's an across the board problem.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Sheryl

[Buchholz]

Been there a few times for treatment and apart from being a little expensive always found it to be of the highest standards for care and attention. Try to remember just how much you would be paying for similar care back in the Good ol USA !

Apparently, it could result in quite a bit of savings by "having similar care in the Good ol USA!", as it's about 1/4 of the price of medical care at Bumrungrad.

I never thought to ask in advance how much the mammogram was going to be; they'd usually been just over a hundred bucks.... in the US. $400+ at Bumrungrad!

[ericg1953]

In the realm of suggestions, what I think would help most at both Bumrungrad and other hospitals that try to tap the international market is an English-speaking "ombudsman" office to which patients could bring their concerns early on. This is common in US hospitals and heavily utilized there to the mutual advantage of patients and hospitals, the latter in terms of reducing the risk of lawsuits by resolving issues well before they escalate to that point. Perhaps because there is less litigation in Thailand, this does not seem to exist here.

Actually what Scott (TV member Bumrungrad) ends up doing is a kind of ombudsman function but he's having to do it often well after the fact. On the spot intervention would be far more effective. Sometimes all that is amiss is miscommunication, there just isn't anyplace a patient can turn to to get clarity when that arises. The international services offices are staffed by administrative personnel who are not equipped/qualified for more than making appointments. This too is not unique to Bumrungrad, it's an across the board problem.

Well said Sheryl. I think that an office like this would be in everyones best interest. Maybe Scott can bring this up to the management at Bumrungrad. I too have used this hospital for years and find the makeup of it has changed. I guess those of us that have Dr.s that we like at Bumrungrad will continue to go there. That being said we would like have a good feeling about the rest of the experience..like we used to have !!

[relentless]

Hi, All,and thanks for your comments,

As for the individual representing Bumrungrad- thanks, but I prefer to remain anonymous in terms of staff at Bumrungrad knowing who complained about them online. I may need to use Bumrungrad from time to time but I will do so only in a pinch. As a foreigner, Bumrungrad is easy, one-stop-shopping. If you want a good price for good care it can be done in Thailand but you can't just breeze into town anymore and count on Bumrungrad to fill that role for you. It's a shame.

Sheryl,

Thanks for your input. Why must we always learn things the heard way? You are right- we must carefuly choose our doctors, compare prices and manage our medical care every step of the way.

Yes; I did ask for an itemized bill. No mistake. I just didn't realize I had to ask every single time EXACTLY what it was going to cost. I was only "spot checking". They caught me unawares. I never thought to ask in advance how much the mammogram was going to be; they'd usually been just over a hundred bucks.... in the US. $400+ at Bumrungrad! There were some ridiculous charges for vitamins they said I needed. If I'd only known I would have just gotten them elsewhere.

Recently I was quoted $750 at Bumrungrad for a routine type procedure and then $1500 for the exact same procedure three weeks later at Bumrungrad. I don't want to give too many more details because, like I said, I'm still somewhat entangled there and it will take me some time to get completely away from there. (I "talked big" about just picking up my records, but it hasn't been that easy. It's hard to replace all your doctors at once. And it's too bad because I really like a few of my Bumrungrad doctors.)

No, I had not gone for a "package" when I got the mammogram; I was just getting what I thought should be done taken care of like I always had in the past when I had visited Bumrungrad.

Bumrungrad is just swamped. They have so much business, they no longer care about being reasonably-priced and are out to make as much money as possible. I sincerely hope another hospital will pick up their former business model and become "the go-to place where you know you can count on good prices, conveneince and good care".

I was completely appalled at the state of my medical records from Bumrungrad. Forms filled out so incompletely with nothing but quick, illegible scribbles on them. And here I thought I would have years of medical history I could turn over to another doctor. Most of the time they don't even write what the main purpose of the visit was *in the space provided*. They don't record what the doctor's specialty is. So now I can't really use their records to go and show another hosptal or doc that I have been seeking medical care from neurologists for years for my migraines, have tried all these different things to manage them and haven't been just asking for opiates.

It's true what you say- they just send you to whatever doctor is available and not who is best for you. They have some great docs and some stinkers- they are just too big and a zoo now. I have been quoted prices there recently- as I struggle to wean myself away from them- that are on par with U.S. prices.

I'm very upset and feel "stuck" and on my own now trying to find medical care from scratch as a tourist in Thailand who doesn't have a lot of time here and doesn't speak the language. I am part of the "captive audience" Bumrungrad has built up over the years by being so trustworthy *in the past*, which included very fair prices. Now they have changed and are grabbing the big bucks when people are vulnerable and turning to them when in need. I know I sound a bit emotional but it is an emotional situation for me. With the Bumrungrad representative here reading the posts I dont feel like I can explain my full situation while I would really like to, in order to help others avoid similar problems at Bumrungrad.

Bouffant, Bummed

think their many good hospitals in Bangkok, look around.

[orchis]

I had similar experiences over the years in Bangkok Hospital where I went for 15 years;

in the end the raise in prices and over-supply of medications and services was excessive; I asked my doctor if he could write me prescriptions for an outside pharmacy so the price of my medications would be 70 % less expensive but he told me he would not do it, asking me if I wanted the in-house prescription or if I wanted to go elsewhere. I took the hint. I think the big hospitals in Bangkok are positioning themselves to more lucrative markets than only the residing expat community (wealthier patients from countries close to Thailand, from the Middle East).

BNH seems to not have gone this route for the moment, but it is also raised it prices more quickly the last few years.

I think there is value in smaller hospitals which offer excellent care but don't label themselves as 'international', e.g. Saint-Louis on Sathorn .

[james24]

I noticed recently that their has been a new law passed that is alot stricter on doctor malpractice. Hopefully this will have a knock on effect and doctors will stop being so lazy. One thing for sure I would never get an operation here, just would no way trust it....

Plus the education system is now being recognised as a bit of a joke (by thais) so hopefully things will get better soon

[JimmyTheMook]

I think the big hospitals in Bangkok are positioning themselves to more lucrative markets than only the residing expat community (wealthier patients from countries close to Thailand, from the Middle East).

I had been using Bumrungrad for a good 10 years and will never use this hospital again after getting price gouged by a Doctor there.

Did complain to their Customer Service Dept. and the representative here on the forum , got a long winded reply about how they investigated it and was within the normal parameters of visit costs.

FYI is was 1600 baht for a 20 minute Doctor consultation with no procedures done , plus all the little extras hospital fees they tack on as well once the bill is finalized and paid.

Just my experience

[bumrungrad]

Hello Everyone,

Sometimes I don't know whether to jump in or not when these conversations happen - I feel strange when we are eerily silent, as if we don't care. We are listening to your criticism. And we appreciate the constructive suggestions as well.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[bumrungrad]

Hello Jimmy,

Apologies, I normally would not do this, but you have misrepresented what I said.

Without going into any details, I did explain that pricing was not normal for the hospital, and explained why that was. I realize that you are not happy with the answer, and I feel badly about that.

I can't get into a discussion about this online without revealing details of your case, even if you are willing to. I just ask that you please don't misrepresent our private messages.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

[JimmyTheMook]

Hello Jimmy,

Apologies, I normally would not do this, but you have misrepresented what I said.

Without going into any details, I did explain that pricing was not normal for the hospital, and explained why that was. I realize that you are not happy with the answer, and I feel badly about that.

I can't get into a discussion about this online without revealing details of your case, even if you are willing to. I just ask that you please don't misrepresent our private messages.

Best regards,

Scott @ Bumrungrad

Actually the "official" reply was via a doctor who reviewed the case and a customer representative from the IMCO.MedicalSupport dept. , you may have also received a carbon copy of the correspondence.

You were helpful and attentive in directing my concerns to these people.

Brief excerpt

We would like to explain further regarding our doctor’s fees. Our doctors at Bumrungrad International can charge a doctor’s fee between range of THB 500 – THB 2000 which are based on the following criteria as stated in our earlier correspondence and their level of professional involvement with their patient as well.

In retrospect maybe should be glad did not hit the 2000 baht ceiling. :jap: