Thai Policemen Arrested For Alleged Bribery

[Xangsamhua]

I have a relative who retired as cornel in the BIB and he seems to have been as 'honest' as they come. He don't have any of the trappings of unusual wealth that many of his friends have and I don't think thais are famous for being discreet with their ill gotten money.

He told me that only time he took bribes for not doing his job was in the 1960's as a bottom ranking BIB. the system is such that nobody gets a promotion without a patron and usually that patron is paid and the higher the rank the higher the fees. Clearly a station commander or higher don't go out on the streets to get their bribes and they need lots of money to get a return on their investment on the current rank and to pay for future promotions. They get the money by setting the junior officers quota's and if you don't meet the bribe quotas you get the dangerous jobs until you die, leave or begin to understand the realities of police life.

He got his promotions through pure cronyism. he was part of group who graduated and partied together. they all did very well before they retired, all generals. I think they saw him as a likeable eccentric within the group, which he is, and took care of him as they wormed their way up the ladder. He is extremely nationalistic and has a real thing about prostitution and drugs as they damage the reputation of his country and thus his ego. and yes it was interesting for a while when I started dating his favourite niece; before me the only foreigners he had met were in his cells.

The point is that the BIB have a promotion structure that favours the promotion of the corrupt and the corruption within the BIB is top down. A new recruit that just wants to do their job is going to be forced to collect bribes for their boss and just like a whore the more you do it the easier and more natural it becomes. But if people start believing they can report bribery and see something done about it, then corruption becomes uneconomic for the BIB.

I really would like to see a thailand where the BIB saw them selves as law in enforcement rather than a licensing authority selling the rights to break the law

Awesome. Great insight in that story. It explains what we're seeing every day on the streets.

I often wonder how Singapore stamped out corruption of public officials. It seems an impossible task. But I am sure Singapore, before the current powers that be, was just as corrupt as the rest of SE Asia.

Yes, it seems there are some police officers who are conscientious, get to "Darb" (Warrant Officer?) rank, retire on their pension and modest savings and are well regarded in the community. I don't know any more than that. Is it that there are cliques or gangs within the police force who do well on the spoils of corruption and don't let others in, or that there are (many?) police officers who really don't ride the gravy train of corruption and are regarded, like the man in the example above, as eccentrics - respected and left to do the best they can on benign patronage and their limited pay and benefits?

[chainarong]

Who is going to post these dumb dumds bail?

No need, just an IOU for 30% of their tea money for 12 months and they walk.

Thought Mr Veera might part with a bit more BHT, U know help a fellow man in the sh!!t.

[yellow1red1]

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

lots of other choices for corruption career tho... politics, military, bueruocrats! They have Corruption Career Fairs, don't They?

[chainarong]

I have a relative who retired as cornel in the BIB and he seems to have been as 'honest' as they come. He don't have any of the trappings of unusual wealth that many of his friends have and I don't think thais are famous for being discreet with their ill gotten money.

He told me that only time he took bribes for not doing his job was in the 1960's as a bottom ranking BIB. the system is such that nobody gets a promotion without a patron and usually that patron is paid and the higher the rank the higher the fees. Clearly a station commander or higher don't go out on the streets to get their bribes and they need lots of money to get a return on their investment on the current rank and to pay for future promotions. They get the money by setting the junior officers quota's and if you don't meet the bribe quotas you get the dangerous jobs until you die, leave or begin to understand the realities of police life.

He got his promotions through pure cronyism. he was part of group who graduated and partied together. they all did very well before they retired, all generals. I think they saw him as a likeable eccentric within the group, which he is, and took care of him as they wormed their way up the ladder. He is extremely nationalistic and has a real thing about prostitution and drugs as they damage the reputation of his country and thus his ego. and yes it was interesting for a while when I started dating his favourite niece; before me the only foreigners he had met were in his cells.

The point is that the BIB have a promotion structure that favours the promotion of the corrupt and the corruption within the BIB is top down. A new recruit that just wants to do their job is going to be forced to collect bribes for their boss and just like a whore the more you do it the easier and more natural it becomes. But if people start believing they can report bribery and see something done about it, then corruption becomes uneconomic for the BIB.

I really would like to see a thailand where the BIB saw them selves as law in enforcement rather than a licensing authority selling the rights to break the law

Awesome. Great insight in that story. It explains what we're seeing every day on the streets.

I often wonder how Singapore stamped out corruption of public officials. It seems an impossible task. But I am sure Singapore, before the current powers that be, was just as corrupt as the rest of SE Asia.

Singapore with a lot less population is easy to control , just about everyone knows each other, if Singapore had 80 million it would be as corrupt as the rest , U need lots of checks and balances, something that asian nations seem to avoid.

[IvanDobsky]

I have a relative who retired as cornel in the BIB and he seems to have been as 'honest' as they come. He don't have any of the trappings of unusual wealth that many of his friends have and I don't think thais are famous for being discreet with their ill gotten money.

He told me that only time he took bribes for not doing his job was in the 1960's as a bottom ranking BIB. the system is such that nobody gets a promotion without a patron and usually that patron is paid and the higher the rank the higher the fees. Clearly a station commander or higher don't go out on the streets to get their bribes and they need lots of money to get a return on their investment on the current rank and to pay for future promotions. They get the money by setting the junior officers quota's and if you don't meet the bribe quotas you get the dangerous jobs until you die, leave or begin to understand the realities of police life.

He got his promotions through pure cronyism. he was part of group who graduated and partied together. they all did very well before they retired, all generals. I think they saw him as a likeable eccentric within the group, which he is, and took care of him as they wormed their way up the ladder. He is extremely nationalistic and has a real thing about prostitution and drugs as they damage the reputation of his country and thus his ego. and yes it was interesting for a while when I started dating his favourite niece; before me the only foreigners he had met were in his cells.

The point is that the BIB have a promotion structure that favours the promotion of the corrupt and the corruption within the BIB is top down. A new recruit that just wants to do their job is going to be forced to collect bribes for their boss and just like a whore the more you do it the easier and more natural it becomes. But if people start believing they can report bribery and see something done about it, then corruption becomes uneconomic for the BIB.

I really would like to see a thailand where the BIB saw them selves as law in enforcement rather than a licensing authority selling the rights to break the law

Awesome. Great insight in that story. It explains what we're seeing every day on the streets.

I often wonder how Singapore stamped out corruption of public officials. It seems an impossible task. But I am sure Singapore, before the current powers that be, was just as corrupt as the rest of SE Asia.

Singapore with a lot less population is easy to control , just about everyone knows each other, if Singapore had 80 million it would be as corrupt as the rest , U need lots of checks and balances, something that asian nations seem to avoid.

Singapore stamped it out, from 1967 onwards, thanks to tough sentences and a motivated police force. Smaller population, yes but you can make an example to people whether there is 4 million, 40 million or 400 million of them.

The police here are bent beyond belief. They define the word 'corruption'. If you want a promotion, just get the money together. If you did something wrong, 10k in an envelope should do the trick. Try that in the UK or US and see how far you get.

Thaksin declared a war on corruption when he got into power. If it was half as 'successful' as his war on drugs, we might be getting somewhere.

I expect these miscreants out on bail and charges dismissed soon.

[relentless]

and Oh what a loss that would be.

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

[chainarong]

I have a relative who retired as cornel in the BIB and he seems to have been as 'honest' as they come. He don't have any of the trappings of unusual wealth that many of his friends have and I don't think thais are famous for being discreet with their ill gotten money.

He told me that only time he took bribes for not doing his job was in the 1960's as a bottom ranking BIB. the system is such that nobody gets a promotion without a patron and usually that patron is paid and the higher the rank the higher the fees. Clearly a station commander or higher don't go out on the streets to get their bribes and they need lots of money to get a return on their investment on the current rank and to pay for future promotions. They get the money by setting the junior officers quota's and if you don't meet the bribe quotas you get the dangerous jobs until you die, leave or begin to understand the realities of police life.

He got his promotions through pure cronyism. he was part of group who graduated and partied together. they all did very well before they retired, all generals. I think they saw him as a likeable eccentric within the group, which he is, and took care of him as they wormed their way up the ladder. He is extremely nationalistic and has a real thing about prostitution and drugs as they damage the reputation of his country and thus his ego. and yes it was interesting for a while when I started dating his favourite niece; before me the only foreigners he had met were in his cells.

The point is that the BIB have a promotion structure that favours the promotion of the corrupt and the corruption within the BIB is top down. A new recruit that just wants to do their job is going to be forced to collect bribes for their boss and just like a whore the more you do it the easier and more natural it becomes. But if people start believing they can report bribery and see something done about it, then corruption becomes uneconomic for the BIB.

I really would like to see a thailand where the BIB saw them selves as law in enforcement rather than a licensing authority selling the rights to break the law

Awesome. Great insight in that story. It explains what we're seeing every day on the streets.

I often wonder how Singapore stamped out corruption of public officials. It seems an impossible task. But I am sure Singapore, before the current powers that be, was just as corrupt as the rest of SE Asia.

Singapore with a lot less population is easy to control , just about everyone knows each other, if Singapore had 80 million it would be as corrupt as the rest , U need lots of checks and balances, something that asian nations seem to avoid.

Singapore stamped it out, from 1967 onwards, thanks to tough sentences and a motivated police force. Smaller population, yes but you can make an example to people whether there is 4 million, 40 million or 400 million of them.

The police here are bent beyond belief. They define the word 'corruption'. If you want a promotion, just get the money together. If you did something wrong, 10k in an envelope should do the trick. Try that in the UK or US and see how far you get.

Thaksin declared a war on corruption when he got into power. If it was half as 'successful' as his war on drugs, we might be getting somewhere.

I expect these miscreants out on bail and charges dismissed soon.

Yeah , I'd say you be right there, all noise and no action.

[iko]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

[BSJ]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

Hi Iko, if your saying a little bit of corruption is OK.....where do you draw the line?

[iko]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

Hi Iko, if your saying a little bit of corruption is OK.....where do you draw the line?

Well, if they plant evidence it's not ok for me. That's the line. If they say you're drunk and you're not. If they extort money without you having broken the law. That looks like a fine line to me. If they just give you the choice (go home or go to jail) well, if you are so eager to follow the rules, you can always choose the legal way, and go to jail...

[selftaopath]

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

SO!!!

What does Thailand have now? Less than nothing re: "police." I hesitate calling them that b/c they do not give an inkling of protecting and serving anyone but themselves.

[selftaopath]

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

SO!!!

What does Thailand have now? Less than nothing re: "police." I hesitate calling them that b/c they do not give an inkling of protecting and serving anyone but themselves.

[LivinLOS]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

So thats OK when the person 'paying the little bit to go home' has committed a crime against you is it ? As happened for example in the killing of my mates 15 year old daughter.. Or another mates kidnapped, drugged, wife..

When you allow people to pay to break the law.. It means there is no law, only a price to do what you wish.

[LivinLOS]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

Hi Iko, if your saying a little bit of corruption is OK.....where do you draw the line?

Well, if they plant evidence it's not ok for me. That's the line. If they say you're drunk and you're not. If they extort money without you having broken the law. That looks like a fine line to me. If they just give you the choice (go home or go to jail) well, if you are so eager to follow the rules, you can always choose the legal way, and go to jail...

Incredibly naive.. and only spoken about as the perpetrator of a crime, not about the victim of such.

[siampolee]

To my mind the root of the problem is that ,''you pay peanuts you get monkeys,''

Monkeys are born again thieves.

Throw in a low level expectation regarding intelligence and education, no background checks as to the character of the applicants to be policemen or police women and we see the result.

[bristolgeoff]

a drop in the ocean will it really make a difference

[steve C]

For all the value this news is readers would probably find reading news of a shopping trolley being found more exillerating

[jfchandler]

Good, informative, believable post... I suspect this is in fact the way their system works.....leaving aside the worse abuses by BIB who are just flatout crooks themselves.

PS - How did it turn out with the niece??? I would have been more than a little nervous about that kind of situation, notwithstanding the fact that I'm (so they say) a decent, law-abiding kind of guy. Nervous in the sense of, have a BF-GF argument or end up breaking up...and what does the uncle do???

I have a relative who retired as cornel in the BIB and he seems to have been as 'honest' as they come. He don't have any of the trappings of unusual wealth that many of his friends have and I don't think thais are famous for being discreet with their ill gotten money.

He told me that only time he took bribes for not doing his job was in the 1960's as a bottom ranking BIB. the system is such that nobody gets a promotion without a patron and usually that patron is paid and the higher the rank the higher the fees. Clearly a station commander or higher don't go out on the streets to get their bribes and they need lots of money to get a return on their investment on the current rank and to pay for future promotions. They get the money by setting the junior officers quota's and if you don't meet the bribe quotas you get the dangerous jobs until you die, leave or begin to understand the realities of police life.

He got his promotions through pure cronyism. he was part of group who graduated and partied together. they all did very well before they retired, all generals. I think they saw him as a likeable eccentric within the group, which he is, and took care of him as they wormed their way up the ladder. He is extremely nationalistic and has a real thing about prostitution and drugs as they damage the reputation of his country and thus his ego. and yes it was interesting for a while when I started dating his favourite niece; before me the only foreigners he had met were in his cells.

The point is that the BIB have a promotion structure that favours the promotion of the corrupt and the corruption within the BIB is top down. A new recruit that just wants to do their job is going to be forced to collect bribes for their boss and just like a whore the more you do it the easier and more natural it becomes. But if people start believing they can report bribery and see something done about it, then corruption becomes uneconomic for the BIB.

I really would like to see a thailand where the BIB saw them selves as law in enforcement rather than a licensing authority selling the rights to break the law

Edited August 1, 2010 by jfchandler

[sunanta]

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

[moetownblues]

just pay the arresting officers and the wheel will continue to turn no problem

[chantorn]

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?

I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

[Mitker]

If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

This is precisely where all the problem starts. By accepting the very principle of such a deal you manage to escape the legal consequences of your acts (the law being fair or not is another point); you prevent the state to enforce the law; and you reward the police force that does a business hijacking the law for personal enrichment.

Personally, that's what I see deeply wrong in it.

[robblok]

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

So thats OK when the person 'paying the little bit to go home' has committed a crime against you is it ? As happened for example in the killing of my mates 15 year old daughter.. Or another mates kidnapped, drugged, wife..

When you allow people to pay to break the law.. It means there is no law, only a price to do what you wish.

Spot on LOS the guy basically says as long as i benefit from it and don't go to jail its ok. But they will do the same for others and so crime is left unpunished.

I am sure that he would bribe his way out of a drunk driving accident while the family of the person who is the victim will want justice and would see it from an other point of view.

Im sure he would want justice too if he were paralyzed in by a drunk Thai and would be appalled if the guy went free because of a bribe.

[khaowong1]

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

[naiharn]

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?

I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

yes, that's about right.

You see, to be corrupt, you have to be an official or a person in a position of power or privilege, and be able to use that power or privilege to extract money from others. For example a Thai policeman who pulls over a motorcyclist who was more than likely done nothing wrong, and gives him the choice of a 100 baht fine directly into the cop's pocket, or a 500 baht fine at the police station plus lots of inconvenience (e.g. impounding of his motorbike). The victim who pays the 100 baht is not corrupt, but it is illustrative of the Thai personality that you should try to argue it is.

What you are basically doing is blaming the victim. How very Thai!

Very few farangs in Thailand are officials. Very few are in a position of power where they can extract payments from people on the basis of that power. That is why I answer 'yes' to your question.

[naiharn]

show me a country that does not have a corruption problem and i'll show you 180 that do

yes most do but not this bad...

Sorry to break you disillusionment but on a list of 180 countries Thailand was rated as the 84th most honest country. That means that there are 96 more corrupt.

following is the link. Unfortunately they are from 2008 but things in the world haven't changed that much. For the life of me I don't know how you can live in a country right next to Burma and make a statement like that

http://www.infopleas...erceptions.html

An interesting point, however:

• a very large number of countries ranked worse than Thailand are complete basket cases. Thailand is not a complete basket case. Trying hard, but not there yet. And Thais are very proud of their country. I think most would loath being compared with many of the countries below them on the list.
• Burma is one of the worst basket cases you could find. Not much point in using it as a reference point.
• interesting to see some of the countries rated better than Thailand: India, China!, Ghana, Namibia, Cuba

[iko]

If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

This is precisely where all the problem starts. By accepting the very principle of such a deal you manage to escape the legal consequences of your acts (the law being fair or not is another point); you prevent the state to enforce the law; and you reward the police force that does a business hijacking the law for personal enrichment.

Personally, that's what I see deeply wrong in it.

I was not talking about felonies and especially seriuos fenolies. Comparing a "tea mone" for a passport stamp or a speed driving with homicides, rapes and kidnappings it's a bit too much. I'll make you a simple example; a policeman stops you for speed. Then he finds you a nice bloke and decides not to fine you. Is that ok for you? Or you gonna insist to be fined? Cuz, if you really "respect" the law you must insist to be fined. If you are the guy that insists to be fined also if the cop would let you go, you can say something. Otherwise, no.

[metroman]

Thank heavens for the judicial system so these public servants can prove their innocence.

[metroman]

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?

I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

Actually its 200 baht and I can give you the names of MANY Thais that have paid on-the-spot fines for real and imagined infractions.

The vast majority of Farangs pay the impromptu fines to honor the well established Thai custom.

[Deeral]

I'm shocked and stunned....these guys are going to be in so much trouble......for getting caught?