Spicy Magazine: Laos Riled Over Insulting Article

[george]

‘SPICY’ MAGAZINE: Laos riled over insulting article

Government demands apology from publisher

A Thai magazine’s 29 tongue-in-cheek recommendations to its readers about how to endear themselves to Lao women found little favour with Lao officials. In a complaint sent to the Royal Thai Embassy in Vientiane, the country’s Foreign Ministry has demanded an apology.

Lao officials said the magazine should publish an official apology to keep good relations between Thailand and Laos from suffering, Lao Foreign Ministry spokesman Yong Chanthalangsy said in a phone interview yesterday.

In its June 11-24 edition, Spicy magazine ran an article, which Laotian government officials deemed extremely demeaning to their citizens.

Among other jibes, the magazine jocularly recommended that to curry favour with a Laotian woman, Thai men should call her “e dok thong” (“you little slut”). The expression, which translates to “golden flower” in Thai, refers to a prostitute in a highly derogatory way. “[A Lao woman] loves to be called that because it makes her look valuable,” the article posited.

The Vientiane Mai newspaper, a government mouthpiece, published an article last Friday condemning the magazine and its staff. Pak Tob, the article’s writer, explained that whereas the expression did not exist in the Lao language, in Thai slang it meant “dirty whore.” He added that Lao people had been gravely offended.

Spicy magazine issued a letter through the Thai Foreign Ministry’s Information Department to Lao authorities on June 24. A Thai official who assisted in the delivery of the letter said it contained certain words that could be considered an apology.

Yet Lao government spokesman Yong said a clear apology should be published in the magazine, rather than relayed through ministerial channels. Lao people wanted to see editors of the Thai magazine show public contrition, he said.

Pantipa Sakulchai, publisher of Spicy, was not available for comment yesterday. An editorial staffer, however, said the article in question had been an email message circulated among close associates.

The staffer added that editors of the magazine had made a mistake by publishing such an article without considering its offensiveness and that they had not meant to appear demeaning to Lao people.

--The Nation 2005-07-06

[TizMe]

A Thai official who assisted in the delivery of the letter said it contained certain words that could be considered an apology.

<deleted>

[Jai Dee]

This is the same sort of stupid journalism that caused the Cambodians to burn the Thai embassy... now they've got the Lao people enflamed...

The Thai sense of sanook needs to be moderated and edited a little before going into print.

Read more here - the Vientiane Mai Newspaper Online.

[The_Moog]

'idork thorng' - that's pure Thai.

A Thai girl will react negatively to that.

It sounds a bit like the Monty Python Hungarian dictionary, giving misleading translations. Not very clever or original writing.

[Khun Ngo]

Hmm,

I thought Thai people are generaly very polite and respectfull people and would always

consider others feelings before they act.

[george]

Update:

Laos jokes spotlight Thai insensitivities

A Thai entertainment magazine’s faux pas when it insultingly swiped at Laotians highlights the need for a cultural manual of dos and don’ts for journalists and the general public, according to a well-known social commentator.

In an interview with The Nation yesterday, Charnvit Kasetsiri, professor of Southeast Asian studies at Thammasat University, called the article a glaring example of “arrogance” and “ignorance” demonstrated by “well-educated urban people”.

In its June 11-24 edition, Spicy magazine ran an article listing 29 tongue-in-cheek guidelines to Thai readers about how to befriend their northeastern neighbours. One especially demeaning recommendation urged Thai men to address Laotian women as “e dok thong” (literally “golden flower”, which in Thai slang means “you little whore”). The writer suggested Laotian women are flattered by such a label.

Infuriated by the article, the Lao government called on the Thai Embassy in Vientiane to demand an apology from the publisher. The magazine then sent a somewhat apologetic letter to Lao authorities via the Thai Foreign Ministry’s Information Department. Lao authorities, however, have insisted that the publisher retract the article and issue a clearly worded public apology on its pages.

Charnvit, who is an expert on Thailand’s relations with its neighbours, faulted the magazine’s editor for being callously “insensitive” about Laotian people’s feelings. “The journalists were too ignorant to realise [the implications of their actions],” the professor said. “They did not have the good sense to understand that offending other people like this is unspeakably rude.”

Charnvit stressed that because even highly educated urbane Thais harboured petty prejudices, the journalists merely reflected mainstream opinion, however objectionable that might be.

He recommended that Thai journalists and members of the general public take crash courses in “dos and don’ts” about how to cultivate sensitive relationships with neighbours, especially Laotians and Cambodians, many of who speak Thai.

He said that such a manual might help avoid inflaming anti-Thai sentiments like the ones that led to the torching of the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh in 2003.

“In Thailand, we expect farangs [Westerners] to adhere to the precepts of a ‘dos and don’ts’ manual, but it’s high time we produced such a booklet for ourselves to learn how to behave with people in neighbouring countries,” Charnvit said.

--The Nation 2005-07-07

[Jai Dee]

“In Thailand, we expect farangs [Westerners] to adhere to the precepts of a ‘dos and don’ts’ manual, but it’s high time we produced such a booklet for ourselves to learn how to behave with people in neighbouring countries,” Charnvit said.

That would be a first...

Looking outside the sphere for a change?

[Sphere]

I thought Thai people are generaly very polite and respectfull people and would always consider others feelings before they act.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you read that somewhere?

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

Update:

Laos jokes spotlight Thai insensitivities

A Thai entertainment magazine’s faux pas when it insultingly swiped at Laotians highlights the need for a cultural manual of dos and don’ts for journalists and the general public, according to a well-known social commentator.

In an interview with The Nation yesterday, Charnvit Kasetsiri, professor of Southeast Asian studies at Thammasat University, called the article a glaring example of “arrogance” and “ignorance” demonstrated by “well-educated urban people”.

In its June 11-24 edition, Spicy magazine ran an article listing 29 tongue-in-cheek guidelines to Thai readers about how to befriend their northeastern neighbours. One especially demeaning recommendation urged Thai men to address Laotian women as “e dok thong” (literally “golden flower”, which in Thai slang means “you little whore”). The writer suggested Laotian women are flattered by such a label.

Infuriated by the article, the Lao government called on the Thai Embassy in Vientiane to demand an apology from the publisher. The magazine then sent a somewhat apologetic letter to Lao authorities via the Thai Foreign Ministry’s Information Department. Lao authorities, however, have insisted that the publisher retract the article and issue a clearly worded public apology on its pages.

Charnvit, who is an expert on Thailand’s relations with its neighbours, faulted the magazine’s editor for being callously “insensitive” about Laotian people’s feelings. “The journalists were too ignorant to realise [the implications of their actions],” the professor said. “They did not have the good sense to understand that offending other people like this is unspeakably rude.”

Charnvit stressed that because even highly educated urbane Thais harboured petty prejudices, the journalists merely reflected mainstream opinion, however objectionable that might be.

He recommended that Thai journalists and members of the general public take crash courses in “dos and don’ts” about how to cultivate sensitive relationships with neighbours, especially Laotians and Cambodians, many of who speak Thai.

He said that such a manual might help avoid inflaming anti-Thai sentiments like the ones that led to the torching of the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh in 2003.

“In Thailand, we expect farangs [Westerners] to adhere to the precepts of a ‘dos and don’ts’ manual, but it’s high time we produced such a booklet for ourselves to learn how to behave with people in neighbouring countries,” Charnvit said.

--The Nation 2005-07-07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a pretty sad day when anyone needs a manual to tell them that being down right rude and derogatory to another human being is wrong. If a farang did the same thing to a Thai person there would probably be a death involved there somewhere

[kat]

This is not the first time, and it won't be the last.

[chownah]

Doesn't the Lao gov't have something better to do with its time?

[phuketsiam]

Does any one remember the fuss when the English Oxford Dictionary defined Bangkok as a city famous for its prositutes

[Martin]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

[siamesekitty]

As I've mentioned earlier, here there isn't much education on racism here, whether it be in the schools or society in general.

[Martin]

I like your signature, siamesekitty.

Thailand has taught me that a belief in afterlife and karma works wonders at keeping one concerned to behave considerately.

(Although it seems to relax when Thais get behind the wheel and onto the highway, off the country roads, where they drive considerately . An awful lot charge down the highway with the gearbox in top and the mindbox in neutral!)

[phuketsiam]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw    "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

[Camelot]

Just a quick defence of the Oxford English Dictionary. It didn't call Bangkok a city of many prostitutes. That was Longman's Dictionary in 1993.

The expression that Spicy magazine said Thais should use to refer to Lao woman is one of the most deadly insults in the Thai language. It can also be lethal for the user as knives have flashed and triggers been pulled over that one. A Thai woman would go totally apesh*t .

I once used it as a joke. Don't make my stupid mistake. I was lucky to live.

There's racism everywhere. Some Thais think Cambodians are dirty and Cambodians think Thais will always cheat. And as for the Muslims in the South, well just look at the Thai-language boards on Panthip.

[frodo]

Thai media should mind what they say about others

Hats off to you for your comments on rude Spicy magazine for publishing such an insensitive article. It is time for television and other media to pay attention to cultural sensitivity. I am very sick and tired of seeing Thais look down on their own Southeast Asian neighbours, and even on Northeasterners, who are actually Thai citizens as well! It is not that much of an exaggeration to say that Bangkokians are so self-centred and so ba farang (farang-crazed) that they have the nerve to put their own people in Isaan beneath the farangs! These are most likely the very same people who always cry for a united Thai nation. It’s folks like them who destroy peace and harmony among different peoples.

Isn’t it time to condemn what hypocrites some Thais are?

I think Thai television should stop all comedies and soap operas that contain racist jokes, and more Thais should come out and defend the minorities who have been made fun of.

Racist jokes represent an absolute disgusting side of human beings, a cruel, heartless, non-sympathetic side. Discrimination only fosters hatred towards each other. I salute you for condemning such a thoughtless journalist act.

Parichat Jungwiwattanaporn

Bangkok

Talk about putting a foot in you mouth. Discrimination is bad, but to be put below a farang is even worse. Best laugh from a writing of contridiction I've had in a long while. It's these type of comments that can rile people.

Source: Nation: Letters to the Editor

[Heng]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw     "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

[TokyoT]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw     "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand it the site is not on a Thai server so there is little they can do to close the site down.

[Heng]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw     "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

As I understand it the site is not on a Thai server so there is little they can do to close the site down.

They can certainly block the site for users here in Thailand. I've found that I've lost access to all kinds of "educational" sites because of gov't/police censorship.

Sure, one can use a proxy or anonymizer type website but their blocking the site would definitely lower web traffic.

[TokyoT]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw     "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand it the site is not on a Thai server so there is little they can do to close the site down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can certainly block the site for users here in Thailand. I've found that I've lost access to all kinds of "educational" sites because of gov't/police censorship.

Sure, one can use a proxy or anonymizer type website but their blocking the site would definitely lower web traffic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding me.? With the devoted following that Tv has established. The Tvers would do what ever necessary to overcome the obstacles placed before us.

[Heng]

Yeah, I'd definitely still visit. I'm not sure if those who pay to advertise here would be happy about the loss of random/general traffic though.

[phuketsiam]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw    "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

good point Heng, or maybe the royal Thai police haven't sussed it out yet, back to the thread, its not unusual for Thai's to criticise or look down on other nations, but it touches a nerve when the position is reversed, of course many Thai's are not like this, but many are and some are in government, sorry to generalise, your posts indicate a (more) balanced view, as do other Thai's on this forum or who I have known, however like it or not the fact is the word Bangkok when spoken in the west makes many people think of prostitutes, wrongly or rightly, but its a trueism, denying it won't change that

[Heng]

good point Heng, or maybe the royal Thai police haven't sussed it out yet, back to the thread, its not unusual for Thai's to criticise or look down on other nations, but it touches a nerve when the position is reversed, of course many Thai's are not like this, but many are and some are in government, sorry to generalise, your posts indicate a (more) balanced view, as do other Thai's on this forum or who I have known, however like it or not the fact is the word Bangkok when spoken in the west makes many people think of prostitutes, wrongly or rightly, but its a trueism, denying it won't change that

Still a somewhat inaccurate generalization, Phuketsiam. It's like saying it's not unusual for falangs to get violent when their favorite sports teams are criticized. Sure it happens, and yes it's not unusual. But to suggest it's some kind of widespread norm would be inaccurate.

As to whatever Bangkok's reputation is, IMO it doesn't really bother local's as much as one may think; certainly no more than it would bother a Dutch person that many people think of hashish, tulips, and women in doorways when one mentions Amsterdam.

[phuketsiam]

Good point again, I'm not suggesting its a widespread norm, in truth I don't enough Thai's well enough to make an accurate assessment to how widespred it is, but I'm confused, if it doesn't bother the locals (Thai's) then why the fuss

[Heng]

Good point again, I'm not suggesting its a widespread norm, in truth I don't enough Thai's well enough to make an accurate assessment to how widespred it is, but I'm confused, if it doesn't bother the locals (Thai's) then why the fuss

Why the fuss indeed? They (allow me to remove myself from the equation) can be as nationalistic or oversensitive as they want to be, as much as anyone else at least, in my book anyway.

I don't know about the whole society, but for myself, if criticism had a real impact or bothered me, I would change my ways. However, I find that most (but not all, surely) criticism: both personal and that of a vague overgeneralized nature, falls right into the indifference 'recycle bin' on my computer desktop, so life typically goes on according to the same old song and dance.

[Galong]

I like your signature, siamesekitty.

Thailand has taught me that a belief in afterlife and karma works wonders at keeping one concerned to behave considerately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why people who believe that they'll be reincarnated would treat the earth in such a vile manner. I mean, they're crapping on they're own future. Who wants to come back to a world full of trash, deserts, fishless seas and (in keeping with the theme of this tread) racism.

[george]

Quite rightly there was a fuss.

How would the British feel if they saw     "London---whose most famous area is Soho",

or "Brighton is best remembered for its phone boxes being papered with explicit advertisements by prostitutes".

The first thing a reporter and/or editor needs is a sense of proportion (even ahead of spelling and grammar, in this age of spellcheckers etc).

My point was the Thai's can give criticism, but not take it

Not true... or else when we wanted to view Thaivisa.com we'd get a message like:

"Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriateness such as pornography, gambling or contain any information which is deemed to violate national security.

For more information, please contact "Police Information System Center" Bld#19 2nd Flr, Royal Thai Police, Rama I, Patumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel. 0-2251-0164,

email : [email protected]

http://www.police.go.th"

For your information:

We have great communication with the Royal Thai Web Police at the HQ, just to avoid any issues. The Web Police have no plans to shut us down. They are actually reading this this forum from time to time. Immigration officials read it. Consulates and embassies abroad surf our pages and enjoy the discussions.

Our admins and moderators are doing a great work to reduce the amount of bad posts, and if we should fail to act quickly in some topics, there will be no penalty like a "shut down".

Be assured that we are trying to do a well moderated forum, accepted and appreciated by the Thai authorities. We maintain a hard moderation policy.

We are running Asia's biggest expat website, and with our efforts to keep it clean it is at no risk.

We are not recognized as a threat to the Thai Government, political opposition or the Royal Thai Family.

To block Thaivisa.com from access within Thailand is not on their agenda. Should the evil "censure" people try that with us, they will have problems. Period.

Kind regards,

George

Admin

Thaivisa.com

[Martin]

Seen as more of a safety valve than a steam lance, eh, George?