Patong Foot Massage For Less Than 250 Baht?

[pete600]

Yes i own and run a number of legit shops.

Do you run a legit massage shop involved in the hiring? If not, why should I trust you rather than my own experience of seeing so many massage workers in Thailand sitting around and waiting?

[Jingthing]

Yes i own and run a number of legit shops.

OK, good. If you lowered your service price, would there be mafia type pressure on you to comply with the standard price in town?

[pete600]

No you can charge what you like. But anything under 200b and you are working for nothing

Yes i own and run a number of legit shops.

OK, good. If you lowered your service price, would there be mafia type pressure on you to comply with the standard price in town?

[Jingthing]

Here is a hypothetical question.

Which job would you take?

Job 1 --

Base salary x baht (same as Job 2)

Commission 100 baht per customer plus tips

6 days a week, on average 2 customers a day, must be at job 10 hours a day

Job 2 --

Base salary x baht (same as Job 1)

Commission 70 baht per customer plus tips

5 days a week, on average 5 customers a day, must be at job 8 hours a day

Edited August 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[pete600]

Would that be a guaranteed 5 customers a day ?

Here is a hypothetical question.

Which job would you take?

Job 1 --

Base salary x baht (same as Job 2)

Commission 100 baht per customer plus tips

6 days a week, on average 2 customers a day, must be at job 10 hours a day

Job 2 --

Base salary x baht (same as Job 1)

Commission 70 baht per customer plus tips

5 days a week, on average 5 customers a day, must be at job 8 hours a day

[Jingthing]

No, a predictable average for the sake of a purely hypothetical question. The economically RATIONAL choice is of course Job 2.

Many fewer hours

Much more money (remember to add in the typically expected tips, more massages, more tips)

Much more work (there's the rub)

Of course, the hypothetical presumes the shop owner would also significantly cut his take per massage, in order to offer a much lower price to the public, which with the proper promotion would for the sake of this example bring in many more customers. Of course the flaw is that a much greater volume isn't guaranteed, but let's say that was the result and it could be documented, would it be hard to get workers then, as they would have the knowledge that they were being underpaid the market price per massage?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[LivinLOS]

Not trying to start a tuk tuk vs. massage girl war here. Only that we tend to give the girls who call us handsome men the benefit of the doubt when they take advantage of us, whereas others may not get that same benefit.

Meaning you catch more flies with honey than vinegar ?? And that people respond better to people who are friendly towards them.

Shock horror.. Hold the front page..

[LivinLOS]

And whether tuk tuks, massages, or anything else, free market competition certainly provides for better and/or cheaper goods and services.

Many examples worldwide where the free market competition has led to a sub standard service and higher prices.

Such as ??? I am sure they may exist, just racking my brains over when.

But I am sure you would agree, in the vast majority of times, if the buisness is equally for profit (unlike national services) free market forces help the consumer.

[LivinLOS]

For a foot massage the girls get 100b (£2) for 1h. would you work for 100b per h .

What an absurd question. There appears to be a huge glut of people trained and willing to do massages in Thailand and businesses are having no problem staffing up at whatever they are paying, which is of course a private matter between them and their workers.

One thing I would be curious to know about is what percentage of time are massage workers actually massaging? Like a national statistic. For example, if nationally they are only actually working (rather than waiting) only 25 percent of the time, what an awful waste of human resources. Yes, I American, and that is a kind of American question to ask. My point is if they are only working 25 percent of the time, wouldn't it better for them and the nation if they cut the workforce down and the others were retrained in skills there was actually that much demand for?

Over supply of services and then cartel behaviour seems to be the norm in tourist areas.. Thais tend to herd mentality when it comes to (lacking) original business ideas.. How many net cafes do you see ?? Etc etc etc.. As others have argued in tuktuk threads working low low hours, spending the rest of the time hanging out, and charging high cartel pricing to make 'just enough' seems to be favoured over working longer hours and higher pay.

Massage is something with a low barrier of entry, hence like many professions similar is over supplied. I would say its poorly paid and wouldnt argue 250 baht for someone rubbing feet for a whole hour. It personally one I see as being so close to the bone I dont think getting time and motion experts on the case is going to result in significant savings to the consumer, tho I do agree about the waste on national resources as per efficiency. This subject effects many things here and is why so many items approach western pricing, because the supply chain, corruption, and various issues add waste which is ultimately a consumer cost.

Just pay the 250 IMO and not worry.

[teslawasrobbed]

I find that a ridiculous question. You don't know what that shop would pay the workers, you don't know whether the INCREASED VOLUME would compensate or more than compensate for the lower prices. Basic economics that for some reason is repressed in Thailand, lower prices, larger volume, in some cases, higher profits. Aren't most of these massage workers IDLE most of the time? Potentially even their working hours could be shortened if they were actually engaged in actual work during their entire shift.

Actually I Do know what they get paid and its obvious you know nothing about doing business in Thailand especially Patong

[Jingthing]

Just proposed some alternative ways of looking at these issues. No need to bite my head off. Sometimes people who have a fresh perspective and are not married to the status quo can actually see something so called insiders can't. However I do agree there is nothing really wrong with the current prices, they can't be considered much of a rip off compared to the tuk tuk mafia prices.

[stevenl]

Such as ??? I am sure they may exist, just racking my brains over when.

Rail services, energy supply, postal services, all of these in many European countries. The governments have privatised all these services to the free market, and I can't think of any country where the service has improved and the prices have not skyrocketed, far more than the inflation.

But I am sure you would agree, in the vast majority of times, if the buisness is equally for profit (unlike national services) free market forces help the consumer.

Yes, agree with that.

[stevenl]

It personally one I see as being so close to the bone I dont think getting time and motion experts on the case is going to result in significant savings to the consumer, tho I do agree about the waste on national resources as per efficiency. This subject effects many things here and is why so many items approach western pricing, because the supply chain, corruption, and various issues add waste which is ultimately a consumer cost.

Just pay the 250 IMO and not worry.

This inefficiency also keeps a lot of people at work, out of unemployment benefits (if the country were more efficient those would be unavoidable) and out of crime.

So all in all I agree it could be a lot more efficient, but doubt more efficiency would be good for the country as a whole.

Edited August 7, 2010 by stevenl

[teslawasrobbed]

I find that a ridiculous question. You don't know what that shop would pay the workers, you don't know whether the INCREASED VOLUME would compensate or more than compensate for the lower prices. Basic economics that for some reason is repressed in Thailand, lower prices, larger volume, in some cases, higher profits. Aren't most of these massage workers IDLE most of the time? Potentially even their working hours could be shortened if they were actually engaged in actual work during their entire shift.

Actually I DO know what the shops pay the girls, it would appear that you know nothing about doing business in Thailand especially Phuket.

[Jingthing]

Actually I DO know what the shops pay the girls, it would appear that you know nothing about doing business in Thailand especially Phuket.

You said that ALREADY and I replied to you already. What are you looking for, a medal of some kind?

[ilyelol]

Do you run a legit massage shop involved in the hiring? If not, why should I trust you rather than my own experience of seeing so many massage workers in Thailand sitting around and waiting?

You've definitely never had a quality massage if you think those places with 40 girls have actually had more than 5mins of training

[Jingthing]

You've definitely never had a quality massage if you think those places with 40 girls have actually had more than 5mins of training

I have indeed had many quality massages, but you're right the typical massage skills in Phuket are quite low and come to think of it usually really not worth 250 baht. Cheers. Still better deal than the tuks tuks but if that is what everything is compared to for value, that's a very sorry state of affairs.

[teslawasrobbed]

Actually I DO know what the shops pay the girls, it would appear that you know nothing about doing business in Thailand especially Phuket.

You said that ALREADY and I replied to you already. What are you looking for, a medal of some kind?

Sorry accidental duplication

[teslawasrobbed]

Trust me you go out and try to get a few girls to work. Easy to get ex bar girls but you try to get a trained girl that is not looking for a BF

You are exactly right very difficult to get staff that actually want to work, I am always trying to get staff but as soon as they are told we dont allow happy endings they usually leave.

[4evermaat]

To answer the original question, I found a couple of quality places that will do it for 200 bht. The most professional shop is called Emotion Day Spa. 200 for oil, thai, and foot massage. Other massages are discounted heavily also. They were one of the few shops to have raised tables, and you can put your face in the table so you are laying face down comfortably. The majority of massage shops have the mattress on the floor and you must turn your head left or right to lay down fully, which is uncomfortable. They appear to get a lot of traffic. I'm surprised that more massage shops have not implemented their strategy. A hard to beat flat-rate low season price schedule that is clearly visible and non-negotiable.

Emotion Day Spa is located about 1 km from junceylon on Rat U Thit Rd. You walk opposing traffic (towards Royal Paradise) on the same right side. They have red pants and a light red shirt.

Other professional shops are right near the waterfall in the middle of the Royal Paradise complex. The shops that are attached to a guesthouse will have a more expensive price list because they already have foot traffic from their guesthouse. I recommend the Twin Face spa (green shirts).

But 250 is actually a good rate also. I wouldn't pay more than 250 for a foot. Or 300 for an oil massage. But typically you can look at the price list and then say something like "looks good, but it's expensive" Playing hard to get can knock off 50-150 bhat off the listed price (the lists are usually written for high season). Or when other shops try to solicit you for a massage, say "Well I'd love to, but I usually massage over at [hold up business card of the cheaper shop] for xxx bhat. But only do this if you actually want a massage. It's tacky to discuss price, and then not do the massage. Remember, they are at work.

Professional massage shop checklist:

- Typically the "quality" massage will be at the "newer" shops that look recently remodeled and their equipment and design is up to date. They are concerned about the image they project and the facilities that are available for their clients. They are trying to sell their massage techniques, not their happy ending services.

- The age of ladies working there is one way to tell professionalism. The older ladies tend to focus on actually massaging you and not trying to sleep with you. If they have a bunch of young ladies only there all out front pulling you into the shop...........

- How the massage ladies are dressed is another way to tell. Is she wearing pants or booty shorts and heals? Is she tugging on your shirt and feeling all over you or is she trying to show you the benefits of the massage on the price list?

[ilyelol]

in phuket town, this christian lady has her own massage place.. tables with face hole. no TV, just music. speaks english as good as any asian living overseas, worked overseas and at banyan tree + many other hotels in phuket.

180 baht/hr

3 streets next to this one, this lady gives 200baht massage, better than every single 100$ us massage ive had in spas, in thailand and overseas.

Just drive out of patong <deleted>

[falkan]

there is one place in Chalong that charging 100tbh for one hour, a blind girl.

close to the circel

[Rsee]

Great to see some constructive inputs from a number of folks here!

It's good to know that there are a few competitive players in the foot massage biz whom are willing to break free of the 250baht cartel pricing. As such, if all things are relatively equal(location, quality) and given the economic laws of supply/demand, their businesses and personnel should prosper over the medium/long term vs. the price-fixed cartel members.

Free market competition in almost all industries overwhelmingly benefits society as a whole in the long-run by maximizing productivity, improving quality, and lowering costs. In cases of costs rising when a government privatizes a product or service, it almost always indicates that the taxpayer was already subsidizing the business through higher taxes prior to the privatization.

As an expat, I believe that visitors should be humble/respectful and behave like Romans when in Rome. That being said, a "reasonable" tip is a cultural matter determined by local Thais, and visitors/expats should try to determine and emulate what a local Thai person would normally do in regards to the matter of tipping.

I wonder what is the average tip that a local Thai person tip would give for a decent foot massage at a roadside spa?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Rsee

[ilyelol]

Great to see some constructive inputs from a number of folks here!

It's good to know that there are a few competitive players in the foot massage biz whom are willing to break free of the 250baht cartel pricing. As such, if all things are relatively equal(location, quality) and given the economic laws of supply/demand, their businesses and personnel should prosper over the medium/long term vs. the price-fixed cartel members.

Free market competition in almost all industries overwhelmingly benefits society as a whole in the long-run by maximizing productivity, improving quality, and lowering costs. In cases of costs rising when a government privatizes a product or service, it almost always indicates that the taxpayer was already subsidizing the business through higher taxes prior to the privatization.

As an expat, I believe that visitors should be humble/respectful and behave like Romans when in Rome. That being said, a "reasonable" tip is a cultural matter determined by local Thais, and visitors/expats should try to determine and emulate what a local Thai person would normally do in regards to the matter of tipping.

I wonder what is the average tip that a local Thai person tip would give for a decent foot massage at a roadside spa?

Clearly your post is only to be accepted by the mass.

Tipping what a thai would tip for a good massage is as low as it gets on the dirty expat list.

Tipping the thai way at a restaurant, for food delivery or any other mindless job is fine, but a GOOD massage require a lot of work, those women really hurt when they get old, id guess theres about 50 other reasons that overtipping for a decent or good massage is something that we should all do(if you are not a teacher)

I would never tip under 100baht, even if the massage was 100baht.(unless the massager is the owner then id tip only about 50-75baht no matter what the price is)

When your friends help you move, you buy the pizza and beers right? well.. moving each other is part of the friend's job.. same thing with massage ladies.. massaging is part of their job.. what stops you from being nice to them anyways? they'Ve worked hard.

[Rsee]

Clearly your post is only to be accepted by the mass.

Tipping what a thai would tip for a good massage is as low as it gets on the dirty expat list.

Tipping the thai way at a restaurant, for food delivery or any other mindless job is fine, but a GOOD massage require a lot of work, those women really hurt when they get old, id guess theres about 50 other reasons that overtipping for a decent or good massage is something that we should all do(if you are not a teacher)

I would never tip under 100baht, even if the massage was 100baht.(unless the massager is the owner then id tip only about 50-75baht no matter what the price is)

When your friends help you move, you buy the pizza and beers right? well.. moving each other is part of the friend's job.. same thing with massage ladies.. massaging is part of their job.. what stops you from being nice to them anyways? they'Ve worked hard.

Thanks for your feedback.

I would have thought that a 10%-15% tip would be well appreciated by most masseuses, and others in the a number of different services.

I'm curious to know if most of the expats here also tip 40% of the bill to their hard working masseuses, as well as their hard working servers at the restaurants, their hard working baristas at Starbucks, their hard working construction folks that build the fancy houses/condos here for a tiny wage, their maids that make less than what the master spends on beer each month, etc?

As a westerner, its has been a traditional part of my culture to tip 10-15% for a number of services that i receive in the west. However, as an expat living in Asia for a number of years, many of my Asian friends have said that tipping should be modest or none at all.

Should expats try to emulate the local customs in regards to tipping??? Or, should expats pick and choose the services they believe deserve an extra-ordinary tip(as opposed to local custom) vs those they believe don't deserve any extra-ordinary tips?

[ilyelol]

Thanks for your feedback.

I would have thought that a 10%-15% tip would be well appreciated by most masseuses, and others in the a number of different services.

I'm curious to know if most of the expats here also tip 40% of the bill to their hard working masseuses, as well as their hard working servers at the restaurants, their hard working baristas at Starbucks, their hard working construction folks that build the fancy houses/condos here for a tiny wage, their maids that make less than what the master spends on beer each month, etc?

As a westerner, its has been a traditional part of my culture to tip 10-15% for a number of services that i receive in the west. However, as an expat living in Asia for a number of years, many of my Asian friends have said that tipping should be modest or none at all.

Should expats try to emulate the local customs in regards to tipping??? Or, should expats pick and choose the services they believe deserve an extra-ordinary tip(as opposed to local custom) vs those they believe don't deserve any extra-ordinary tips?

You are comparing a good massage lady, killing her hands to give you a great massage for peanuts, to a bunch of guys wearing beany caps sitting around all day putting concrete together with no regards to levels or straight lines or a bunch of girls sitting around for hours and finaly bringing you a coffee when their phone as ran out of battery.

If you cant tip 3-4$ for a good massage, you're either a teacher or a scumbag

many of your asian friends are definately broke or egocentric ******. Not tipping well is only acceptable for easy jobs, like the news paper delivery, waiting tables, bagging your groceries, etc.

This is a goddamn 3rd world country. The east vs west can be debated a lot, but overall the western world is way more advanced and we know better. We know tipping can help change someone's life. even 50baht extra is 2meals for some of these people.. Won't kill you to be a non-egocentric asshol_e like 3world asians are thought to be? Show them that being nice and thoughtful is something good.. they might change?

Edited August 11, 2010 by LivinginKata
2 flames removed

[teslawasrobbed]

Thanks for your feedback.

I would have thought that a 10%-15% tip would be well appreciated by most masseuses, and others in the a number of different services.

I'm curious to know if most of the expats here also tip 40% of the bill to their hard working masseuses, as well as their hard working servers at the restaurants, their hard working baristas at Starbucks, their hard working construction folks that build the fancy houses/condos here for a tiny wage, their maids that make less than what the master spends on beer each month, etc?

As a westerner, its has been a traditional part of my culture to tip 10-15% for a number of services that i receive in the west. However, as an expat living in Asia for a number of years, many of my Asian friends have said that tipping should be modest or none at all.

Should expats try to emulate the local customs in regards to tipping??? Or, should expats pick and choose the services they believe deserve an extra-ordinary tip(as opposed to local custom) vs those they believe don't deserve any extra-ordinary tips?

You are comparing a good massage lady, killing her hands to give you a great massage for peanuts, to a bunch of guys wearing beany caps sitting around all day putting concrete together with no regards to levels or straight lines or a bunch of girls sitting around for hours and finaly bringing you a coffee when their phone as ran out of battery.

If you cant tip 3-4$ for a good massage, you're either a teacher or a scumbag

many of your asian friends are definately broke or egocentric ******. Not tipping well is only acceptable for easy jobs, like the news paper delivery, waiting tables, bagging your groceries, etc.

This is a goddamn 3rd world country. The east vs west can be debated a lot, but overall the western world is way more advanced and we know better. We know tipping can help change someone's life. even 50baht extra is 2meals for some of these people.. Won't kill you to be a non-egocentric asshol_e like 3world asians are thought to be? Show them that being nice and thoughtful is something good.. they might change?

Well said, I totally agree with your comments, they are the hardest working people I know and deserve a tip no less than 100 Baht, unfortunately I see on a daily basis people giving 10 and 20 baht tips to the dismay of the massage therapist who has put in a great deal of effort to please the customer, of course they never show this to the customer

[Samuian]

What is the Name of the Massage & Spa in the rear of Jungceylon?

isn't it only 150 there?

Besides the ladies applying the massage get only 50% the other 50% go to the shop!

[Rsee]

You are comparing a good massage lady, killing her hands to give you a great massage for peanuts, to a bunch of guys wearing beany caps sitting around all day putting concrete together with no regards to levels or straight lines or a bunch of girls sitting around for hours and finaly bringing you a coffee when their phone as ran out of battery.

If you cant tip 3-4$ for a good massage, you're either a teacher or a scumbag

many of your asian friends are definately broke or egocentric ******. Not tipping well is only acceptable for easy jobs, like the news paper delivery, waiting tables, bagging your groceries, etc.

This is a goddamn 3rd world country. The east vs west can be debated a lot, but overall the western world is way more advanced and we know better. We know tipping can help change someone's life. even 50baht extra is 2meals for some of these people.. Won't kill you to be a non-egocentric asshol_e like 3world asians are thought to be? Show them that being nice and thoughtful is something good.. they might change?

Its apparent that you greatly value the services of a masseuse, you feel that they are underpaid, and you feel that it is the responsibility of expats to be altruistic and "change the life" of the masseuse via extraordinarily large tips.

However, for whatever reason, you look down upon all other service providers, and consider their jobs "easy" and not worthy of an extra reward. Apparently only masseuse "kill their hands", and other workers in other industries don’t suffer physical discomforts or injury on the job. You also feel that Asians are "egocentric <deleted>", and their cultural traditions regarding tipping are incorrect.

Thank you for sharing your opinions. Appreciate you enlightening everyone as to your thoughts on tipping, the value of other workers, and Asian culture.

[Jingthing]

Overtipping is often for the benefit of the tipper, to make him feel like a big generous man. Why not if that pleases you but don't impose your values on others, it isn't your business.