Guard Dogs

[katabeachbum]

The key word here is PUBLIC. They are public spaces you are talking about. I couldn't give a monkeys if your kids are trained lion tamers, it makes no odds to me. There is probably a 90% chance (Iknow you would like to believe it is 100) that your dog will never bite you or your kids. That percentage is considerably lower when it comes to strangers, people like me and my kids. The fact that you think it's OK to even take a 1% chance of my kids getting bitten is unnaceptable to me. It's the fact that owners of dogs known to have vicious tendencies, can not except that there is the slightest of chances that their dog will behave like the basic animal it is, and bite somebody unprovoked, shows a huge naivity and lack of intelligence. There have been hundreds of mauled and killed kids to prove my point. But your little cuddles could never do that could they. Yeh right.

I still dont get why you would want your kids to approache my dog or jump out in front of a car? Responsible parenting avoids such actions

my kids are now 19,22 and 24 years old, and still havent been bit by any dog.

My GF kids are now 12 and 10, and still havent been bit by any of our rottweilers.

Neither of them approache other dogs in public areas, not in Europe not in Thailand

Thai culture accepts dogs without leash in public areas. We live in Thailand

Must admit walking Bangla at night with my rottweiler, I do use a leash.

[kenny999]

I still dont get why you would want your kids to approache my dog or jump out in front of a car? Responsible parenting avoids such actions

my kids are now 19,22 and 24 years old, and still havent been bit by any dog.

My GF kids are now 12 and 10, and still havent been bit by any of our rottweilers.

Neither of them approache other dogs in public areas, not in Europe not in Thailand

Thai culture accepts dogs without leash in public areas. We live in Thailand

Must admit walking Bangla at night with my rottweiler, I do use a leash.

Yep plenty of dogs in Bangla!!!

[steelepulse]

>>I still dont get why you would want your kids to approache my dog or jump out in front of a car?

Come on KBB, you know how fast when you turn your head for a second the kid can disappear quickly at places such as the beach etc. where you feel that you can take you eye off of a kid for a few seconds and the kid will not be in harms way. How many parents have never lost sight of their kid at some point when they were young? I'd dare say it's about .00001%

I am a dog lover myself, but human life takes priority over a dogs freedom.

[katabeachbum]

>>I still dont get why you would want your kids to approache my dog or jump out in front of a car?

Come on KBB, you know how fast when you turn your head for a second the kid can disappear quickly at places such as the beach etc. where you feel that you can take you eye off of a kid for a few seconds and the kid will not be in harms way. How many parents have never lost sight of their kid at some point when they were young? I'd dare say it's about .00001%

I am a dog lover myself, but human life takes priority over a dogs freedom.

agree,

but we are in Thailand with dangers everywhere

on the beach there are more than 20 dogs without a leash at any time, and the street/beach dogs bite at lower threat level than most dogs

back home, it was unthinkable to accept biting from a dog, even working dogs training avalanche rescue or trails. as a dog behavior trainer, I have had others dogs in my home to remove biting reflex

here the dog needs to protect itself from violent people with sticks, and as a guard dog it needs to be allowed to bite human beeings when needed

here in LOS its more important than back home for parents to make sure their kids do not aproach dogs.

and if a kid aproaches dog, walking a leash makes dog have no escape possibilities thus more likely to bite

It is also more important here to keep kids away from cars, as they will not reduce speed or stop to avoid crash

not sure bangtaoboy is attacking rottweilers or just me, but back home we have statistics on dogs biting kids needing medical care, and the "winners" in frequensy are cocker spaniel and golden retriever. huskies is the fatal biter. working dogs like rottie, doberman, g shephard, briard, boxer are low on stats. one can wonder if this is genetic, or a result of more experienced owners for working dogs

thai ridgeback has been mentioned here. I only know a handful of them, but they all have very low bite reflex level, IOW takes little before they bite

unfortunately I dont have any picture of our shi tsu playing inside my rotties mouth

Edited November 11, 2010 by katabeachbum

[KarenBravo]

From http://www.dogsbite....-statistics.htm

"During 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people died of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997 and 9 in 1998). At least 25 breeds of dogs were involved in 238 human dog bite related fatalities during the past 20 years. Pit bulls and rottweilers were involved in over half of these fatalities and from 1997 to 1998 were involved in 67%."

From http://www.edgarsnyder.com/dog-bite/statistics.html

Analyzing a sampling of press accounts from Canada and the USA during 1982-2007, researchers pinpointed the dog breeds that are most likely to cause death or serious injury. This research study concluded that, unlike any other breed of dog, Pitbulls attacked adults almost as often as they attacked children. The researchers found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids combined to account for:

• 77% of attacks that caused bodily harm to the injured dog bite victims.
• 73% of attacks that harmed children.
• 83% of attacks that injured adults.
• 70% of attacks that resulted in death.
• 77% of attacks that maimed the dog attack victims.

Edited November 11, 2010 by KarenBravo

[LivinLOS]

thai ridgeback has been mentioned here. I only know a handful of them, but they all have very low bite reflex level, IOW takes little before they bite

Thats sorta what I was getting at, in that reading on the bread was that they have 1) strong prey attack instinct 2) need a strong alpha 3) not perhaps as affectionate / pettable as some breeds.. all of the above related to the issue that they have not been a long domesticated breed.

Now I dont have much experience or time with them.. seen a couple.. Including a really nice looking one in CM.. but even that 'stable' animal appeared to wish to remain a little aloof. My wife wants a animated cuddly toy / baby substitute so where we meet in the middle will be the question.

[katabeachbum]

From http://www.dogsbite....-statistics.htm

"During 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people died of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997 and 9 in 1998). At least 25 breeds of dogs were involved in 238 human dog bite related fatalities during the past 20 years. Pit bulls and rottweilers were involved in over half of these fatalities and from 1997 to 1998 were involved in 67%."

From http://www.edgarsnyd...statistics.html

Analyzing a sampling of press accounts from Canada and the USA during 1982-2007, researchers pinpointed the dog breeds that are most likely to cause death or serious injury. This research study concluded that, unlike any other breed of dog, Pitbulls attacked adults almost as often as they attacked children. The researchers found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids combined to account for:

• 77% of attacks that caused bodily harm to the injured dog bite victims.
• 73% of attacks that harmed children.
• 83% of attacks that injured adults.
• 70% of attacks that resulted in death.
• 77% of attacks that maimed the dog attack victims.

most interesting reading

I dont believe "compiling press accounts' provides adequate numbers to give a picture of golden retievers and cocker spaniels behaviour, but still, interesting. In my homecountry 95% of all dogs are registered by breed, which makes stats according to dog population. Seems to lack here.

"Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained", as I said a leashed dog bites more easily

"Boys 5-9 years are most likely to be bit", parents please wake up. wheather you like dogs or not, they are here, in Thailand everywhere in public areas, teach your kids. a 5 year old has no problem to understand the danger of approaching dogs if taught by parents

there is no stats on pitbulls/amstaff/crossovers in my homecountry as they have been illegal for more than a decade

approaching any chained dog, danger. approaching pitbull or rottie can as we can see be fatal

[katabeachbum]

thai ridgeback has been mentioned here. I only know a handful of them, but they all have very low bite reflex level, IOW takes little before they bite

Thats sorta what I was getting at, in that reading on the bread was that they have 1) strong prey attack instinct 2) need a strong alpha 3) not perhaps as affectionate / pettable as some breeds.. all of the above related to the issue that they have not been a long domesticated breed.

Now I dont have much experience or time with them.. seen a couple.. Including a really nice looking one in CM.. but even that 'stable' animal appeared to wish to remain a little aloof. My wife wants a animated cuddly toy / baby substitute so where we meet in the middle will be the question.

have experience with to few thai ridge, but I dont find them stable, cuddly toy or baby substitute in any way. efficient fearless guard dog yes

a rotweiler is cuddly though

but needs a determined leader to be nice

[LivinLOS]

as I said a leashed dog bites more easily

Thats interesting.. Whats the psychology / drive of that ??

And do you mean chained / fixed only or including hand leash ??

[LivinLOS]

have experience with to few thai ridge, but I dont find them stable, cuddly toy or baby substitute in any way. efficient fearless guard dog yes

Yeah my thinking.. I am sure theres always a contradicting animal and some owner will always say "ahh but mine is so easy going".. But as a breed its one that needs more of a guiding hand.. In many ways its the exact dog I would get myself.. But I need to think a bit beyond that.

As I said before.. All this is I am sure over thinking it.. One day past a pound or other selection and I am sure there will be a dog that just connects.. I want to avoid the little yipper types tho.

[KarenBravo]

KBB, do you have a link to back up your claim that Cocker Spaniels bite the most?

[katabeachbum]

as I said a leashed dog bites more easily

Thats interesting.. Whats the psychology / drive of that ??

And do you mean chained / fixed only or including hand leash ??

both

hmm

leashed,

very close to human dog wants to protect

no chance for dog to escape "threat"

dog feels support from human/owner in an attack

chained, in addition

on his own territory, protect

bored

if my unleashed dog gets into fight with other dogs, which is not often and only after they have attacked, I walk quietly away. If not the dog feels supported in his attack, and things can get ugly. When I can see he is done, that is the leader of the attackers is on his back and almost quiet, I call him in. Before that he is deaf/goal oriented, and any shouting will be considered me assisting his attack. On occasions I do assist his attack, if dog(s) keep on bothering us day after day

People see it as irresonsible to walk away, but its the right thing to do. Even if a dog would attack humans. Reduces damages.

Often we see small dogs aggressive, usually because they are used to owners support by following dog or shouting

I call them he, his and dog, but I have had more bitches(female) than dogs (male).

[stevenl]

KBB, now you are really twisting logic:

""Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained", as I said a leashed dog bites more easily"

Your conclusion here seems to come from your mind, but not from this survey. No connection between your conclusion 'a leashed dog bites more easily' and the survey's conclusion 'Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained'.

Your conclusion also seems to differ from your earlier opinion: "and the street/beach dogs bite at lower threat level than most dogs".

Edited November 11, 2010 by stevenl

[katabeachbum]

KBB, do you have a link to back up your claim that Cocker Spaniels bite the most?

wish I had, cocker and golden retreiver where the winners most years.

Been publicised in Scandinavian newspapers (not very english) several times a year the 2 decades I was active in dog training, 1982-2000.

pitbull and its like/similar breeds where popular early 1990-2000, and involved in several fatal bites, thus banned/illegal.

havent seen many cockers here, but golden retrivers are popular

[katabeachbum]

KBB, now you are really twisting logic:

""Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained", as I said a leashed dog bites more easily"

Your conclusion here seems to come from your mind, but not from this survey. No connection between your conclusion 'a leashed dog bites more easily' and the survey's conclusion 'Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained'.

Your conclusion also seems to differ from your earlier opinion: "and the street/beach dogs bite at lower threat level than most dogs".

not really

most street dogs have not grown up close to humans, thus their instinct is to protect and attack by biting. No human has tryed to reduce, control or dominate this instict. They are also willing to bite to achieve food. These can actually be good guard dogs, cause the attention, food and love from a family in combo with its kept instincts/reflexes to survive works well.

its 2,8 times more likely to be bit by a chained (family) dog, than a free walking (family) dog, according to Karen Bravos posted source. well only owned dogs are chained, so lets call them familydogs

as I said a leashed dog bites more easily, does come from my mind and experience, and thus does not appear as a quote in my post ( I hope, have to go back and check )

Edited November 11, 2010 by katabeachbum

[stevenl]

its 2,8 times more likely to be bit by a chained (family) dog, than a free walking (family) dog, according to Karen Bravos posted source. well only owned dogs are chained, so lets call them familydogs

No, that is not what this source said. It said ""Biters are 2,8 times as likely to be chained as unchained", which is different from what you are saying.

[BangTaoBoy]

not sure bangtaoboy is attacking rottweilers or just me,

I'm not attacking you or that particular breed. I just have huge issues with selfish, bad mannered people. Walking a potentially lethal animal in a public place, without a lead, I see as you putting your needs before everybody else around you, which I find selfish. If I had a dog, it would be on a lead at all times, or I would take it walking where there is no body else around. I know some dog walkers that hit the beach at 6AM to avoid other people, and that is normal decent behaviour.

What annoys me is how you keep talking about my kids approaching your dog all the time. You constantly keep denying the possibility that you dog could approach my kids. I accept that you are, or have been a dog trainer, so it may be less likely of your dogs than other peoples, but there is always a chance. It is just an animal, driven by instincts. To think of your dogs as children as so many people do, and to think that you always have control over them at all times is a mistake.

So let me get this straight. You're in the park with your kids when they were toddlers. A man comes walking in your direction from the other side of the park, with lets say one English bull terrier and one doberman running about, off a lead and playing with a ball. How close exactly are you prepared for those animals to get to your kids before you are worried?? You have no idea how those dogs have been raised and what their temperament is. They could have been kicked and bullied every day and be a mauling waiting to happen. Yet by your own standards you are prepared to let those dogs within a 10 second sprint of your kids faces?? I'm afraid I would have to say that not only are your dog walking habits irresponsible, but some aspects of your parenting were as well.

P.S If your dog was on a lead or tied to a tree etc etc then yes I would take full resposibility if my kids approached it and got bitten. It's the chance that your dog will be the instigator that concerns me.

Edited November 12, 2010 by BangTaoBoy

[katabeachbum]

not sure bangtaoboy is attacking rottweilers or just me,

I'm not attacking you or that particular breed. I just have huge issues with selfish, bad mannered people. Walking a potentially lethal animal in a public place, without a lead, I see as you putting your needs before everybody else around you, which I find selfish. If I had a dog, it would be on a lead at all times, or I would take it walking where there is no body else around. I know some dog walkers that hit the beach at 6AM to avoid other people, and that is normal decent behaviour.

What annoys me is how you keep talking about my kids approaching your dog all the time. You constantly keep denying the possibility that you dog could approach my kids. I accept that you are, or have been a dog trainer, so it may be less likely of your dogs than other peoples, but there is always a chance. It is just an animal, driven by instincts. To think of your dogs as children as so many people do, and to think that you always have control over them at all times is a mistake.

So let me get this straight. You're in the park with your kids when they were toddlers. A man comes walking in your direction from the other side of the park, with lets say one English bull terrier and one doberman running about, off a lead and playing with a ball. How close exactly are you prepared for those animals to get to your kids before you are worried?? You have no idea how those dogs have been raised and what their temperament is. They could have been kicked and bullied every day and be a mauling waiting to happen. Yet by your own standards you are prepared to let those dogs within a 10 second sprint of your kids faces?? I'm afraid I would have to say that not only are your dog walking habits irresponsible, but some aspects of your parenting were as well.

P.S If your dog was on a lead or tied to a tree etc etc then yes I would take full resposibility if my kids approached it and got bitten. It's the chance that your dog will be the instigator that concerns me.

2 reasons for me and my dog to go home from the beach at 0730AM, its getting to crowded and to hot

the crowded bit applies to why I dont bring my dog to the beach for sunset, he is simply bored to not be able to play freely around but remain leached, so he is better off outside our home in public area

how to avoid 2 uncontrolled dogs, feeling you or your kids are threatened? have a stick or old shoe or old ball or whatever, and throw it in another direction for the dogs to catch. Emergency solution with street dogs, throw anything eatable away

what do you choose in a park,

meeting one rottweiler without a leash but owner with a leash in sight?

or

10 street dogs running towards your kids icecream?

I know what I prefere for my kids

the rest of your post contains to much assumptions and flaming to be replied to

[zorro1]

If anyone needs protection they can have the number of my ex. Top kick boxer with a violent temper and large breasts a bonus. Establishing male alpha dominance was a problem though..

[katabeachbum]

If anyone needs protection they can have the number of my ex. Top kick boxer with a violent temper and large breasts a bonus. Establishing male alpha dominance was a problem though..

pissing contest needed to establish alpha, as with all dogs and a few bitches

if you couldnt piss higher than her breasts, consult a doctor :lol:

Edit.

On occasions I helped single female owners of male working dogs. They had a hard time establishing alpha male

male piss in a cup or similar to "piss" higher on the same bushes, trees and cars as their male dogs was one of the ingridients.

In addition talking less with lower voice and any dog can be fooled

Edited November 12, 2010 by katabeachbum

[F1fanatic]

not really

most street dogs have not grown up close to humans, thus their instinct is to protect and attack by biting. No human has tryed to reduce, control or dominate this instict. They are also willing to bite to achieve food. These can actually be good guard dogs, cause the attention, food and love from a family in combo with its kept instincts/reflexes to survive works well.

its 2,8 times more likely to be bit by a chained (family) dog, than a free walking (family) dog, according to Karen Bravos posted source. well only owned dogs are chained, so lets call them familydogs

as I said a leashed dog bites more easily, does come from my mind and experience, and thus does not appear as a quote in my post ( I hope, have to go back and check )

Not in my experience. The two street dogs I've adopted are frightened of new people - they will bark loudly and aggressively (now they have a home they want to protect), but are the softest dogs imaginable.

They are frightened of people (having learned in the past that people will kick them etc), but would never dream of actually biting someone!

Mind you, it was obvious when I found them (dying and in a terrible state) that they still knew that they could only get food from people.... So lived in hope, despite their past experience with the odd person that treated them badly.

[BangTaoBoy]

what do you choose in a park,

meeting one rottweiler without a leash but owner with a leash in sight?

or

10 street dogs running towards your kids icecream?

I know what I prefere for my kids

If it's all the same to you I'll take neither for my kids.

The fluffiest little poodle with a pink bow in its hair could start walking toward my kids and I would instantly and instinctively stand between that dog and the children. Any dog, any breed any size, with any kind of upbringing is capable of biting a child. If that's a calculated risk you're prepared to take, then good luck to you, but it's not one that I'm going to take, or let you take on my behalf.

[katabeachbum]

Not in my experience. The two street dogs I've adopted are frightened of new people - they will bark loudly and aggressively (now they have a home they want to protect), but are the softest dogs imaginable.

They are frightened of people (having learned in the past that people will kick them etc), but would never dream of actually biting someone!

Mind you, it was obvious when I found them (dying and in a terrible state) that they still knew that they could only get food from people.... So lived in hope, despite their past experience with the odd person that treated them badly.

the healthy survivors of street dogs are used to bite and be aggressive to achieve food. thats why they survive. have a look at the dog pound, the ones on the top, not skinny despite to little food for all of them to survive

another street way to get food is to be soft and kind to humans, but really doesnt work in a group of dogs

there have been horror stories about rottweilers in LOS and other countries, often they have been kicked out from a home and use their strength and agressivity to get food

interesting you mention dogs are beeing kicked and beaten here in LOS, the exact reason for me to allow a guard dog in LOS to defend its toys

[BangTaoBoy]

Not in my experience. The two street dogs I've adopted are frightened of new people - they will bark loudly and aggressively (now they have a home they want to protect), but are the softest dogs imaginable.

I would agree. In my experience nearly all street dogs are all mouth and no trousers, and are actually very fearful of humans. Nine times out of ten, a stamp of the foot and a shout and they're off, tail between legs. They remind me of urban foxes, mangy scavengers, with no real desire for anything other than a good meal.

I for one would be much more wary of one rottweiler, doberman or Pitt bull, with an owner but off it's lead than a pack of 6 or 7 soi dogs.

[skybluestu]

I have a female Rottweiler as a family pet and she's the softest, most docile dog you'll ever meet with an amazingly sweet temperament. Like any dog she has a natural protective instinct when it comes to the home and will bark if anyone approaches the house but that's it, never tried to bite anyone or anything, and she will stop when I tell her to. But becauase of the (undeserved) reputation that Rotties have it would deter any would-be burglars, attackers etc

Very intelligent dog who needed very little training as she learned so quickly and loves people, including children, and other dogs. She always wants to play and has never responded to any aggression from other dogs who have tried to fight her, she usually hides behind me shaking! Soi dogs with little or no training/socialization and a pack mentality are much more of a threat than any properly raised dog regardless of breed!

[BangTaoBoy]

I have a female Rottweiler as a family pet and she's the softest, most docile dog you'll ever meet with an amazingly sweet temperament. Like any dog she has a natural protective instinct when it comes to the home and will bark if anyone approaches the house but that's it, never tried to bite anyone or anything, and she will stop when I tell her to. But becauase of the (undeserved) reputation that Rotties have it would deter any would-be burglars, attackers etc

Very intelligent dog who needed very little training as she learned so quickly and loves people, including children, and other dogs. She always wants to play and has never responded to any aggression from other dogs who have tried to fight her, she usually hides behind me shaking! Soi dogs with little or no training/socialization and a pack mentality are much more of a threat than any properly raised dog regardless of breed!

What dog owners like you can never understand, is that is exactly what everybody else said just before their dog had a random mad moment, and savaged some body. I've never denied that these dogs are capable of being loving, gentle family pets. If I can accept that, then why can't you biasd dog owners, accept that maybe your dogs will have a bad day and make a mistake. Maybe a miss guided attempt to protect when there was actually no threat in the first place.

I stand by what I said. Soi dogs don't strike much fear in to me at all, but the dogs mentioned in this thread I will always give a very wide berth to.

Also what you are failing to realise, is when your dog comes toward my kids, I have no way of knowing your credentials as a dog owner and trainer. You could easily be a chavvy low life who uses the dog as a weapon and symbol status, which is very common these days sadly.

So without knowing, I have to act defensively in case. Which is where the selfishness comes in to play. Making me go out of my way in a public place just so your mutt can run free.

Either way, you do what you must. Just keep your dog away from my kids.

Edited November 12, 2010 by BangTaoBoy

[Jimi007]

I see I missed all the heated sparing. My dog will bite anyone she thinks is going to attack me or my family, as she is a bodyguard. She has bitten three people. One was beating on my ex GF, the other two were nipped lightly as a warning. All Thai men. But she is a Thai dog that I've had since she was a puppy. She can smell fear and chicken from a distance. She has been kicked and I've seen Thai people fire slingshots at her. Guess what she doesn't like Thai men! And I am glad they are afraid of her too. She defends her land and me. She is well behaved in public when I take her somewhere. She will sit or lay down on a voice command. The Thais I am around are amazed, they never have taken the time to train and love a dog. But they ask me where did you get that dog, can I get a puppy? Ah, NO!

[zoso]

Sorry to hijack this thread but most of you keep dogs? Any recommendation for good kennel to buy dogs? Thanks

[skybluestu]

I have a female Rottweiler as a family pet and she's the softest, most docile dog you'll ever meet with an amazingly sweet temperament. Like any dog she has a natural protective instinct when it comes to the home and will bark if anyone approaches the house but that's it, never tried to bite anyone or anything, and she will stop when I tell her to. But becauase of the (undeserved) reputation that Rotties have it would deter any would-be burglars, attackers etc

Very intelligent dog who needed very little training as she learned so quickly and loves people, including children, and other dogs. She always wants to play and has never responded to any aggression from other dogs who have tried to fight her, she usually hides behind me shaking! Soi dogs with little or no training/socialization and a pack mentality are much more of a threat than any properly raised dog regardless of breed!

What dog owners like you can never understand, is that is exactly what everybody else said just before their dog had a random mad moment, and savaged some body. I've never denied that these dogs are capable of being loving, gentle family pets. If I can accept that, then why can't you biasd dog owners, accept that maybe your dogs will have a bad day and make a mistake. Maybe a miss guided attempt to protect when there was actually no threat in the first place.

I stand by what I said. Soi dogs don't strike much fear in to me at all, but the dogs mentioned in this thread I will always give a very wide berth to.

Also what you are failing to realise, is when your dog comes toward my kids, I have no way of knowing your credentials as a dog owner and trainer. You could easily be a chavvy low life who uses the dog as a weapon and symbol status, which is very common these days sadly.

So without knowing, I have to act defensively in case. Which is where the selfishness comes in to play. Making me go out of my way in a public place just so your mutt can run free.

Either way, you do what you must. Just keep your dog away from my kids.

When research has been done after fatal dog attacks it is often the case that, despite the owner maybe saying otherwise, the dog in question had shown signs of previous aggression and so should have been supervised more closely. There are usually other similarities such as no training/socialization, had been abused/uncared for, had been used as a guard dog and therefore had some sort of aggression training. These are just a few things that can cause a dog, any dog, to be mentally unstable and potentially dangerous.

It is NOT breed specific which is why if you are out with your kids and you choose to go out of your way to avoid my 'mutt' then it is due to an irrational fear that you have, would you also go out of your way if I had a Golden Retriever or Dalmation? My Rottweiler has been attacked by quite a few dogs people consider harmless, including those two breeds, and has never retaliated. It's not 'very common' that these dogs are owned by 'chavvy low life' actually it's just that the media portrays this image as it sells papers and then naive sheep, who form opinions based solely on the cr@p they read , believe it. And the dog owners aren't biased it's just that they are giving their opinion based on their own personal experience while people like you, who have no experience of these dogs, have an opinion based on a stereotype and nothing else.

In a country like Thailand with so many people drink-driving you are much more likely to be killed/injured by a drunk-driver than a dog, I bet you happily drive around at night with your kids in the car!

[BangTaoBoy]

When research has been done after fatal dog attacks it is often the case that, despite the owner maybe saying otherwise, the dog in question had shown signs of previous aggression and so should have been supervised more closely. There are usually other similarities such as no training/socialization, had been abused/uncared for, had been used as a guard dog and therefore had some sort of aggression training. These are just a few things that can cause a dog, any dog, to be mentally unstable and potentially dangerous.

It is NOT breed specific which is why if you are out with your kids and you choose to go out of your way to avoid my 'mutt' then it is due to an irrational fear that you have, would you also go out of your way if I had a Golden Retriever or Dalmation? My Rottweiler has been attacked by quite a few dogs people consider harmless, including those two breeds, and has never retaliated. It's not 'very common' that these dogs are owned by 'chavvy low life' actually it's just that the media portrays this image as it sells papers and then naive sheep, who form opinions based solely on the cr@p they read , believe it. And the dog owners aren't biased it's just that they are giving their opinion based on their own personal experience while people like you, who have no experience of these dogs, have an opinion based on a stereotype and nothing else.

In a country like Thailand with so many people drink-driving you are much more likely to be killed/injured by a drunk-driver than a dog, I bet you happily drive around at night with your kids in the car!

Firstly, low lives using know to be aggressive dogs as weapons, has absolutely nothing to do with the media selling papers. I see it with my own eyes every time I walk down a UK high street. Bull terriers are normally their choice but rottwiellers are used as well. The obvious reason for this is their well documented ability to be made aggressive.

You're right. I do not avoid Labradors in the same way I would breeds like yours, but I don't believe for one second that it is irrational. If you take one of each and raise them both badly, the rotty will be far more dangerous than the lab. How can you compare them like for like. Which one weighs the most? which one is the most powerful? Which one has the biggest most powerful jaw and bite? The answer to all those questions is the rotweiller.

I'll ask you the same question as the other poster. If an English bull terrier or doberman is coming toward you and the kids in your care, you have no way of knowing how stable or well trained they are, how close do you let them get before you feel that you may be in danger? Are you telling me that you would never feel any danger in that situation?

If you can answer one question for me then I'll know exactly where we stand. Do you believe that there is 0% chance, not 0.00001 but 0% that your or anybody else's well trained rottweiller could ever make a mistake and bite the wrong person. Maybe he was tired, hungry, confused. Maybe he miss read some signals and thought you were in danger when you weren't. Are you happy to say that that could never ever happen, not even a fraction of a percent chance?

If your answer is yes, 0% chance then I'm afraid you are very deluded. If your answer is that there is a tiny percent chance, then I would like to know what makes you think you have the right to take that chance with other people?

You say driving at night is also dangerous due to drink drivers. Aren't you comparing yourself to a drunk driver when you say that? Are you saying because there are so many other risks it makes it OK for you to take some as well?

I'm not going to compare you to the low life, because you are obviously a responsible dog owner. But the fact of the matter is people like you are using those dogs as a form of weapon as well. You enjoy the security they provide you. The feeling of safety when they are around you. This is one of the key reasons for them being the dog you chose to own. The problem is, your security comes at the cost of a slight chance an Innocent person will get hurt. The fact that people like you think that is an acceptable risk is what's so selfish.

Where do you draw your line. Would you go in a room with a lion, just because its owner told you it was safe to do so because he was trained, and he was the alpha male? That is an exaggerated example of the exact same thing you are asking other people to do.