Nightmare Class From hel_l

[jfk]

hi guys,

i have been trying to teach a prathom 5 class for 4 months now and i have tried everything to get them to listen.

there are 43 students and maybe 3 out of the class want to learn, the rest just want to mess about.

they have a very short attention span so holding it has proven to be almost impossible.

i have tried spliting them into teams to make them more manageable and giving certificates of achievement for the winners. still to no avail.

it looks like i am going to have to treat these students as equivalent to p3-4 and play games with them to try to keep them under control for 1 hour a week.

by the way my homeroom teacher thinks it is hilarious to let them pretty much do what they like and shes never there anyway.

i asked for help but was told if i do the homeroom teacher will loose face and it will look bad for me. unbelievable.

so any advice barr tying them to their chair is very much appreciated.

thanks in advance for any help you can give.

regards. :jap:

[lovelomsak]

It would appear by your post no one at the school but you cares that they learn. Give up on teaching the class teach the ones that want to learn let the other ones keep developing their ignorance and pay for it in life. Help the ones who want it the others let them rot. Sounds like the thai teachers donot care why should you.

[liveinlos]

<P>Try to give them physical activities where they actually have to do something to use up all their time<BR><BR><BR><BR></P>

[Scott]

I would get very strict. Those that can't behave will have to stand up. If they persist in playing, they stand at the back of the room, followed by the hallway (for a short period of time). Try to make sure you pick out the most problematic students. I sometimes have the whole class stand up and make them stand until they behave (you can teach while they stand there--once they agree to listen, let them sit down). This will work for about 5 minutes and then they are back to playing around, so repeat as necessary. They need to learn you are the teacher and not listening is not an option.

Once it appears that they will listen to you and you have gotten some of the lesson across, then play a game or something fun--a form of positive reinforcement. Don't expect a lot. Don't give up on the 'bad' kids--they interfere with the learning of the better kids when you do.

Keep the class as structured as possible and consistent. Listen first, do your work and then we can have fun. It's how life operates.

Some classes are worse than others and you can only do the best job you can.

Best of luck.

[22ste22]

Give um some money 555555

[david_dyer]

for the restless class the idea of outside physical activity is great, try to incorperate your class work with some kind of treasure hunt theme in a isolated section outside of the class. Take them to a large tree and have them sit there and conduct the class there. concerntrate your efforts on the one or two that want to learn, others will get bored enough to start to listen and mabey even enter the discussions. Being harsh or hard on them as a farang will not help as it sounds like the school has abandoned the kids, just take a breath, and try to concerntrate on the good students.

if you are able to, you could print out some english orientated stencils for them to colour in, puzzle books for recognition and name conversions.

Outside classes I find settles the students down. a simple change of setting. goodluck

[aussiebebe]

This thread strikes a chord with me, as my most challenging class in Thailand to date was a P5 in a bilingual school, just a coincidence, though.

I think the OP answered his own question; you only have the class 1hour per week, just play games where all kids can participate.

Three or four whole-class games should fill an hour with some engaging sheet for 5-10 minutes to calm them down mid-way.

43 is a challenge - there are other (better) jobs out there! - but with that size, any game which divides the class into 2 teams should help and keeping a tally of points on the board should be something they care about to help with behaviour management.

The favourite games I used with my P5 class all involved flashcards and were 1) auctions - teams competed to 'buy' the items, so they had to say the target language and price to outbid each other. 2) relay races, one from each team racing against each other with balls or plastic hammers and saying the target language 3) that classic change-chair game with one in the middle trying to sit down! that's a bit much with 43, though.

[toasted]

Give lots of praise. Catch them being good, especially the ones that the others follow.

[Geekfreaklover]

It would appear by your post no one at the school but you cares that they learn. Give up on teaching the class teach the ones that want to learn let the other ones keep developing their ignorance and pay for it in life. Help the ones who want it the others let them rot. Sounds like the thai teachers donot care why should you.

That is a nasty attitude to have.

[dave1108]

If you haven't got the backup from your Thai co-teacher, you can't win. The Thai teachers don't care. With a class like that, if you only have them for an hour a week just do something to entertain them, they will think you're wonderful.

[orpheus454]

I would get very strict. Those that can't behave will have to stand up. If they persist in playing, they stand at the back of the room, followed by the hallway (for a short period of time). Try to make sure you pick out the most problematic students. I sometimes have the whole class stand up and make them stand until they behave (you can teach while they stand there--once they agree to listen, let them sit down). This will work for about 5 minutes and then they are back to playing around, so repeat as necessary. They need to learn you are the teacher and not listening is not an option.

Once it appears that they will listen to you and you have gotten some of the lesson across, then play a game or something fun--a form of positive reinforcement. Don't expect a lot. Don't give up on the 'bad' kids--they interfere with the learning of the better kids when you do.

Keep the class as structured as possible and consistent. Listen first, do your work and then we can have fun. It's how life operates.

Some classes are worse than others and you can only do the best job you can.

Best of luck.

Great advice, Scott, as far as it goes.

In a way, the OP is misplaced on this site: teachers in Trinidad, Tobago, Tanzania, Tennessee and Timbuktu are asking the same question. The question is actually about teaching practice, not Thai kids, Thai schools, or anything about Thailand at all.

School teaching is the hardest job in the world. That people think they can walk into a school and do it effectively just because they are a native speaker of the world's language of general communication is a mistake.

Even a teaching qualification won't give you the expertise you need (at least mine didn't, even though it was an excellent course in general). What it will give you, however, is the opportunity to work in your home country as a classroom teacher, where you're no-one special, and if you're lucky you'll have a compatible and experienced mentor who'll hold your hand and guide, coax and nurture you through your early years.

I'm not saying that can't happen as an untrained English teacher in a foreign school, but don't hold your breath.

But here you are, and the "get the experience" option is not available. So...

...get yourself some advice. Luckily there are some great manuals out there on classroom management.

I recommend: Classroom Management: A Survival Guide (Konza, Grainger and Bradshaw, 2001). Beg, borrow, steal or Amazon it.

I'm sure there are many others. In them you'll find not just good advice like Scott gave you above, but whole systems of classroom management. Get one.

What you're experiencing is not a Thai issue. It's a teaching issue.

Treat it as such and you're half way there.

Good luck.

[mark45y]

Start with 12 flash cards for 10 minutes. Like eat, talk, jump, run, walk and 7 other verbs or whatever. Have the class recite as a group. Then go to the children individually and have them say the names of the cards, one card per student.

Then write the names of the cards on the board and tape the cards under the names with masking tape and point to the cards and have the kids all say the name.

Then take the cards off the board and give one card at a time to the student to tape under the names on the board.

Then give the students a spaghetti test with the pictures on one side of the page and the name written on the other side and have them connect the names to the right picture.

Then draw a word search puzzle on the board. Say one word and show the card and hand the chalk or marker to one female student tell her to circle the word. Have the female student give the marker to a male student for the next word and so on. “Hi puchi and hi puying” if you don’t know.

Then write the words on the board with a box under each word and have one student draw one thing under the name. Then give the marker to another student and repeat. Let the students choose which word to draw. Help them with a flash card if they get stuck.

Then give them a spaghetti test with partial words and have them fill in the letters and connect the words to the pictures.

Then give each student a word search puzzle with the words written at the bottom of the of the puzzle to find. Use at least 8 different word search puzzles to prevent too much cheating.

Re do the flash card reciting and the individual student quizzing.

Give them a blank piece of paper with 6 words written in 6 squares on it and have them to draw what is written in the squares. Vary the words to draw on each paper.

Find a picture they can color with the twelve things in the picture and have them color the things and write the names of each thing next to the picture.

Throw a ping pong ball to one student and have him or her stand up and say what card you are holding. Have that student throw the ping pong ball to or at someone else and then they stand up and say what card you are holding.

Then do a word search puzzle with pictures at the bottom but no words. Again make at least 8 different puzzles. Have the students circle the words.

These things should get you through 3 or 4 classes. Then start with a different set of 12 words and flash cards.

The thing to remember, 10 minutes group repetition. 10 minutes individual repetition. 10 minutes up and doing something like the white or black board and 30 minutes writing or coloring something.

[Somtamnication]

OP, correct me if I am wrong, but it does not appear as though you set the rules on your first day in the class. If you did that, this would not be happening.

I teach P1 upto P6. I never have problems with higher level Ps.

For what its worth, this is what I do:

The higher the number, the more intense the "punishment".

1. First warning, tell them to sit down and listen to you. (Do you know some Thai?)

2. They continue? Stand the Alpha students with arms raised, 10 minutes.

3. Nothing? All 40 kids stand up with arms raised. This forces the good ones to tell the bad ones off.

That fixes it.

But the next day, again.

1. First warning, stand up 10 minutes arms raised.

2. 20 Sit ups, raising it by 10 if they continue after sitting down.

3. Ok, 50.

After this one, they will be exhausted and finally open the notebook and listen to you.

Every Friday, my students with clean notebooks, nice writing and remembering the lesson, get stickers. The rest get a buffalo head drawn on the page. They hate that!

You gotta be a dictator in the classroom from day one.

I teach my students 3 hours a week. They know me, they know my temperament and they know that I love them. Easy peasy lemon squeazy

For the leader of the pack, sit him between two girls. The girls hate it and they will let them know it and the boy hates it.

Good luck.

[mark45y]

OP, correct me if I am wrong, but it does not appear as though you set the rules on your first day in the class. If you did that, this would not be happening.

I teach P1 upto P6. I never have problems with higher level Ps.

For what its worth, this is what I do:

The higher the number, the more intense the "punishment".

1. First warning, tell them to sit down and listen to you. (Do you know some Thai?)

2. They continue? Stand the Alpha students with arms raised, 10 minutes.

3. Nothing? All 40 kids stand up with arms raised. This forces the good ones to tell the bad ones off.

That fixes it.

But the next day, again.

1. First warning, stand up 10 minutes arms raised.

2. 20 Sit ups, raising it by 10 if they continue after sitting down.

3. Ok, 50.

After this one, they will be exhausted and finally open the notebook and listen to you.

Every Friday, my students with clean notebooks, nice writing and remembering the lesson, get stickers. The rest get a buffalo head drawn on the page. They hate that!

You gotta be a dictator in the classroom from day one.

I teach my students 3 hours a week. They know me, they know my temperament and they know that I love them. Easy peasy lemon squeazy

For the leader of the pack, sit him between two girls. The girls hate it and they will let them know it and the boy hates it.

Good luck.

Do you have a Thai teacher in the classroom when you teach?

Do you teach at a government school or a private international school?

Do you speak Thai in the classroom?

[Somtamnication]

Half the time, no.

Government

You have to.

[Phatcharanan]

OP, correct me if I am wrong, but it does not appear as though you set the rules on your first day in the class.

1. First warning, tell them to sit down and listen to you. (Do you know some Thai?)

2. They continue? Stand the Alpha students with arms raised, 10 minutes.

3. Nothing? All 40 kids stand up with arms raised. This forces the good ones to tell the bad ones off.

That fixes it.

But the next day, again.

1. First warning, stand up 10 minutes arms raised.

2. 20 Sit ups, raising it by 10 if they continue after sitting down.

3. Ok, 50.

After this one, they will be exhausted and finally open the notebook and listen to you.

You gotta be a dictator in the classroom from day one.

For the leader of the pack, sit him between two girls. The girls hate it and they will let them know it and the boy hates it.

Jeeez. If my kid (lets assume she is always very-well behaved in class) was subjected to that punishment because of the behaviour of others..........I would be round there to break your arm.

You're not a teacher pal....you're a nutcase.

[Somtamnication]

Thanks, I take that as a compliment! If you have never taught, &lt;deleted&gt;.

[Phatcharanan]

Thanks, I take that as a compliment! If you have never taught, &lt;deleted&gt;.

Oh I have. Over 15 years. Home country accredited.

Instead of physical abuse why don't you try simply to have the misbehaving ones return to the classroom ASAP after lunch and do extra academic work? They seriously don't enjoy that whilst their friends are playing footie, having fun etc. And at least the extra work is constructive.

All you are doing is punishing the good students as well as the bad.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[otherstuff1957]

I'm going to guess that this class is number 5/6 or higher. Generally Government schools 'track' their students, that is, students who are good at math will be in the 5/3 class, students who are good at English will be in the 5/4 class, students who are good at everything will be in the 5/1 class, etc... If this class is the 5/highest number, then these are students that the school has basically written off.

If my assumption is correct, these kids are old enough to realize that their chances of excelling are slim to none, and so they don't have much incentive to try. Also, a certain percentage of the class will probably have learning difficulties or behavioral problems. If this is the case, there isn't a whole lot that a once a week foreign teacher can do. English games with girls competing against boys will generally keep then under control for an hour and will expose them to the opportunity to speak and hear some English.

You might try to give the more motivated students some 'extra-credit' worksheets - fun stuff like easy crosswords & so on. (you don't want them to feel like they're being punished with extra work!). If you can give up a lunchtime once or twice a week, you can also have the kids work in pairs to write and perform a simple conversation.

[Scott]

Let's take care not to be too insulting. I have quite a few years experience in Thailand and there is the occasional class that is just plain unruly with little that works. They are the exception, but they do exist. A bad combination of kids, low motivation and low interest in anything.

You can only do what you can do.

Most of the kids that get put in these classes are fairly immune to punishment (or reward for that matter). There family is as well and the parents have often spent plenty of time visiting the school, but usually they are the ones begging for the school to keep the kid, recommending that he be hit and most anything else that might keep him off the streets or out of the house.

Unfortunately, sometimes new kids to the school get put in these human waste bins and they might just want to learn.

Punishment is best dished out in small but increasing doses. I usually start with a few minutes of standing (or whatever) followed a few more minutes. Sometimes I just have a bit of fun and a laugh--like making them stand at the blackboard holding an eraser on the board with their nose (this is never done in a serious way), or standing with one leg held up and their eyes closed--again more for a diversion. The point is, it helps put me in charge of the class and the tenor of the class. If I am losing the battle, I raise the white flag before they know they won.

[Valdezugar]

Some years ago when I was teaching high school (grades 9, 11 and 12) I would manufacture a large sign with the transgression written in large font on it and tell those misbehaving to hold the sign high and walk around the school or stand in the center court yard for all to see. Worked like a charm. The younger ones thought it was fun while embarrassing; the bigger kids just thought it was embarrassing.

Given the whole saving face element of Muang Thai, how would this go down as a measure to discipline kids?

[Somtamnication]

And lets not forget that as a last resort, as you are about to go ballistic, use the Thai teacher (who left the classroom and is gossiping outside). The kids fear them.

In many of my classes, all I ever have to say is, in Thai, You want me to call the Thai teacher?.

As I have stopped teaching M level students, what other teachers do is to teach the ones who want to learn and stop fighting with them. So they sit in the back and the studious ones sit in the front. In a class of 40+. there is nothing else that can be done with puberty and lack of "Thainess".

I often am saluted with the dreaded Yo yo, wassup. I stop the student and tell him, again in Thai, to respect me and to wai. I had enough of the yo yo wassup bs as a cop in Memphis!!!!

And for those of you who think that respect is to be earned, screw that! I am the teacher, my classroom is my domain and for that one meager hour, I am there to teach English (with games, sometimes, but I prefer to teach) and they are there to learn. If they are good, I let them out a bit early. If they are bad, then that hour will suck, for them.

[jaiyenyen]

And for those of you who think that respect is to be earned, screw that! I am the teacher, my classroom is my domain.

I stop the student and tell him, again in Thai, to respect me and to wai.

Was it your father who invaded Poland?

[Scott]

Let's not get too personal. Respect, indeed, is earned; however, good manners are taught. I always have the students wai me. It's not a power trip--it's their culture and it's what's expected of them.

Waiing has less to do with respect and a lot to do with manners.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Scott

[Somtamnication]

Waiing is respect and manners, Scott.

The issue of being a bit of a bull in the classroom has to do with stopping them from stereotyping the falang teacher. With them watching western movies, tv and games, they assume we are all the same.

If you do not control the classroom on the first day of class, you lose them for the rest of the year.

JAIYENYEN. I will not respond to your personal attack.

[happyfalangme]

Waiing is respect and manners, Scott.

The issue of being a bit of a bull in the classroom has to do with stopping them from stereotyping the falang teacher. With them watching western movies, tv and games, they assume we are all the same.

If you do not control the classroom on the first day of class, you lose them for the rest of the year.

JAIYENYEN. I will not respond to your personal attack.

I kinda agree with these statements.

I work in a school that uses the English lessons as extra activity time if they so choose eg canceling English for scouts or something similar.

Also as they come from their normal classroom to the language block, some students think its holiday/break time. So from day one i lay down the rules, How can you conduct a lesson when the students do not bring a pen or notebook?

Also in a country that regards 'chair ball' as a valid PE sport a little extra exercise does not hurt.

[elkangorito]

Commanding respect is one thing. Earning it is another.

I don't take crap from any of my classes and I do expect the minimum of respect, which I get from 99% of my students. I do not insist upon Wais...a simple & equal response is good enough for me since I generally do not Wai students, even if they Wai me.

Most of my students realise that I respect them because during a class, I show that I do.

I do have the occasional 'dummy spit' (probably once every 6 months or so), which seems to quickly 'snap' the class back to reality. They don't understand what I'm saying but my body language & the look on my face is enough for them to get the message.

If anybody is out of order, I target them & make a point that the whole class is aware of the reason why.

My methodology works well but I am teaching adults...not children (even though young Thai adults are treated like children within the amazing Thai education system).

[kevozman1]

A length of bamboo seems to be the way to deal with this in Thailand.

[otherstuff1957]

A length of bamboo seems to be the way to deal with this in Thailand.

^That's actually a big part of the problem. Thai students are often taught that discipline comes from the end of a bamboo stick, not from inside themselves. Consequently, they are only respectful, hardworking and disciplined when someone is standing over them with a stick! Teaching them that discipline should come from within is almost impossible given the amount of time the average Tefler spends with his or her students. However, there have been many good suggestions is this thread that the OP and others in his situation should try out.

[naboo]

Impose your authority on the class with a seating plan, boy/girl/boy/girl at prathom 5 age would be good.

Start each lesson with a very, very simple independent activity. www.puzzlemaker.com has a variety of activities suitable for this, I find all kids enjoy the cryptogram (make sure they don't have to fill in too many letters!), and if they're really weak, vocab for the lesson in a wordsearch or a crossword where the clues are the answers (not too much thinking, remove some of the numbers so the kids have to think a little!)

Limit your time talking to the whole class to 5-6 minutes in the lesson, split into five 1 minute chunks, each followed by an activity.

With 43 kids, you're going to need to have most of your activities involving some sort of writing, cut and stick or drawing pictures activities.

As time goes by, you may be able to increase the difficulty of some of the activities, or give the stronger kids alternative activities to challenge them.

Any indiscipline, explain very clearly what the student has done and what the punishment is going to be.

Never raise your voice above loud talking.

Edited August 14, 2010 by naboo