How To Pronounce "mai" (no)?

[sbaker8688]

How do I say the word "mai" (no)? As in "mai dee." I hear it said different ways, and no Thai seems able to tell me the right way to say it. If I ask how to say it in different ways ("do I say it like this, or like this, or like this?"), they just say "yes."

Do I say it like the english word "my?" Or do I say it like the english word "may?" Or do I say it like the english word "me?"

Please use an english word which sounds the same to tell me how to say it (hopefully one of the 3 provided, if one fits).

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

I am not a Thai speaker but would say "my" or in my mind "mi" would be right. You can't go wrong with English "my". But my ears are my dee so that is only my opinion.

[samran]

bit like saying the word 'may' except with a slightly faster 'ay'.

[Jai Dee]

bit like saying the word 'may' except with a slightly faster 'ay'.

Good description.

"May-ee" with a fast "ee"... almost but not quite a two syllable word.

[Ajarn]

Thai for no, 'My'...falling tone.

For a question, it's a shorter high tone

[denby45]

Well I would say that clears all the confusion.

Den

[Neeranam]

Thai for no, 'My'...falling tone.

For a question, it's a shorter high tone

Rising tone isn't it for a question?

[denby45]

When you get this one right there is only about 30,000 left to go I reckon.

Den

[Tywais]

Thai for no, 'My'...falling tone.

For a question, it's a shorter high tone

Rising tone isn't it for a question?

"Isn't it?" Chai mai (mai rising tone)

"No it isn't!" Mai Chai (mai falling)

Edited July 11, 2005 by tywais

[withnail]

Thai for no, 'My'...falling tone.

For a question, it's a shorter high tone

Rising tone isn't it for a question?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Isn't it?" Chai mai (mai rising tone)

"No it isn't!" Mai Chai (mai falling)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for a question the correct Thai spelling is ไหม in written form which is pronounced with a rising tone however in everyday speech most people say มั้ย which is pronounced with a high tone

[meadish_sweetball]

Withnail is right about the tone value of spoken ไหม [question particle in yes/no questions].

It is quite unusual to hear the rising tone for this word (the Thai spelling does indicate a rising tone) in spoken Thai. It is usually only heard when the speaker is a.) reading aloud from a written document, or b.) stressing the word's tone to the extreme in an effort to speak clearly. (Teachers for example, when teaching children or foreigners how to read Thai).

Remember there are plenty of accents within the English language. Samran is from Australia, and Jai Dee too if I am not mistaken.

They think 'mai' sounds more like 'may' than 'my' because it does in their accents - in Australian English and Cockney (and probably a few other variations of English) 'may' sounds different from standard American English 'may' (which is what Ajarn speaks).

Hence the confusion.

Further, you will sometimes also hear ไม่ 'mai' [no, not] pronounced as 'mi' (the vowel sounds like the short staccato 'i' sound in 'bit' or 'lip' pronounced in formal British English) of 'mai' in some instances of spoken Thai. This pronunciation is an equivalent to the rather formal มิ [no, not] used in written Thai in the place of ไม่.

[Steve2UK]

I'm no way qualified to get into the tone debate (being a real beginner in learning Thai) but, in Chiang Mai at least, I hear the "may" pronounciation a lot - specifically in the "mai ao" ("may ow") form......... meaning "I don't want". But, the same speakers use the "my" pronounciation in other contexts - "mai dee", "mai roo" etc.

Talking of which, I was over the moon the other day when for the first time I could actually hear and distinguish all five tone versions of "mai" - as in the famous "mai mai mai mai mai" ("new wood doesn't burn, does it?"). Probably won't happen again for a while and I certainly couldn't reproduce them properly yet.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Steve2UK

[withnail]

I definately agree that sometimes Mai (like the letter I but with a m sound at the beginning) sounds like May (as in the month). Particularly on the end of mai ow when spoken by children or angry women (at least in my experience). Maybe it's just certain expressions said in certain ways as opposed to a difference in pronounciation. I definately think if you ask a Thai how to pronounce it they will say Mai not May.

Mai

Click this to here the sound clip courtesy of www.thai-language.com

This is how I've been trying to refer to the pronounciation just in case my explanation doesn't sound right to you.

Withnail

Edited July 11, 2005 by withnail

[sabaijai]

The negative form of /mai/ ไม่ often also alters tone when paired with other words, going from the canonical falling tone to a high tone as well, depending on what word follows it.

Thus ไม่ไดัไป is pronounced more like ไม้ไดัไป or even ไม้ไดไป with the ได้ changing to a tone-neutral ได as well

There are lots of words in Thai that alter their 'canonical' tone in everyday speech like this. I pasted a short, non-exhaustive list of them in another thread in this forum, forget which thread it was though.

Linguists call this phenomenon 'tone sandhi' ('sandhi' is a name for the phonological transformations in Sanskrit where a letter changes pronunciation because of certain letters that preceded them). Chinese also has tone sandhi, perhaps all tonal languages do.

The altering of ไหม at the end of a sentence appears to be an example of tone sandhi, too, only in the opposite direction from most other examples in Thai. A more general example in Thai occurs where the low and the high tone change to a mid tone in the unstressed initial syllable of compounds (this applies to multi-syllabic words as well as word phreases).

You hear a lot more about tone sandhi with regard to Mandarin Chinese, since the rules are explicitly taught as you learn the language. With Thai it seems it depends on the teacher. I had one instructor that spent a fair amount of time pointing out tone changes, others who ignored the topic altogether.

A good place to dig up common words in spoken Thai where the tone changes is Thai cartoons and comic books. The Thai in the word balloons tends to be written as pronounced in everyday speech (eg, เขา he/she is written เค๊า, shifting from rising to high tone, as is the norm). I read Thai comic books heavily when I was first learning to read and I thought it improved my abilities to speak and understand colloquial Thai. My favourite was Nu Hin หนูหิน, which follows the comedic adventures of an Isan girl working as a maid working for a snotty Bangkok Thai household. I've recently it's being made into a movie.

Yale study on Thai tone sandhi

[RDN]

...Thus ไม่ไดัไป is pronounced more like ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you meant: ไม่ได้ไป. You gotta watch those Mai Tho's ด้ and Mai Han-Akat's ดั

[Jack Jones]

I'm no way qualified to get into the tone debate  (being a real beginner in learning Thai) but, in Chiang Mai at least, I hear the "may" pronounciation a lot - specifically in the "mai ao" ("may ow") form......... meaning "I don't want". But, the same speakers use the "my" pronounciation in other contexts - "mai dee", "mai roo" etc.

Talking of which, I was over the moon the other day when for the first time I could actually hear and distinguish all five tone versions of "mai" - as in the famous "mai mai mai mai mai" ("new wood doesn't burn, does it?"). Probably won't happen again for a while and I certainly couldn't reproduce them properly yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The phrase you refer to is not only distinguished by the tones but also includes short/long vowel sounds

[Richard W]

I definately agree that sometimes Mai (like the letter I but with a m sound at the beginning) sounds like May (as in the month). Particularly on the end of mai ow when spoken by children or angry women (at least in my experience). Maybe it's just certain expressions said in certain ways as opposed to a difference in pronounciation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesn't just simplify to mee; [F]mai [L/M]sa[M]baai ไม่สบาย can shorten to [H]me[M]sa[M]baai (I'm open to correction on the tones of the unstressed syllables.) and similarly for ไม่เอา meaning 'Don't pester me'.

I've seen the English 'my' transliterated as มาย; ไม่่ and มาย differ in vowel quality as well as the relative length of the two vowel segments.

Richard.

[sabaijai]

...Thus ไม่ไดัไป is pronounced more like ....

I think you meant: ไม่ได้ไป. You gotta watch those Mai Tho's ด้ and Mai Han-Akat's ดั

Right, hit the wrong key by mistake - need more sleep.