Tourist's Arrest Scary Experience

[george]

From Bangkok Post's Postbag:

Tourist's arrest scary experience

My daughter and I came from Singapore for a holiday in Bangkok. On Friday, my daughter went to meet a friend on Silom Road Soi 4 at 11.15pm.

At about 11.40pm, she called me for help. She was arrested by police for being underage in a pub. She is 19 years old and she is not underage to drink in Singapore.

At 12.15am, I arrived at Bang Rak police station and found her in police custody. I explained to the police officer that she was a tourist who did not know the age limit for visiting a pub was different from Singapore and therefore she should not be held in custody.

The police officer replied that she was in Thailand and therefore she should know the Thai law.

The police officer told me to wait for the paper work to be processed to allow me, as a parent, to bail her out. And I waited until 1.30am before an officer came with forms for my daughter to sign.

She signed the form without understanding what was written on it because it was written in Thai. I was asked to sign some statements without understanding what was written in the statement because it was also written in Thai.

I was eventually allowed to take her home at 1.45pm.

This was a horrible experience for me and my daughter. The incident raises a number of questions about how the Thai police and Thai laws can live up to the Amazing Thailand image the Thai government is trying to sell to tourists:

1) If my daughter had been in Bangkok by herself, what would the police do to her if no one could bail her out, bearing in mind there are many 19-year-old tourists like her visiting Thailand?

2) Why should a tourist like my daughter be arrested at a pub where the legal age limit is not displayed or enforced at the pub entrance? It is necessary because the legal age for visiting a pub varies from country to country and the Thai police should not expect tourists to know the law when they arrive in Thailand. Should the pub owner not be held responsible for enforcing the law rather than arresting tourists for not knowing Thai law?

3) Why was the incident not handled by the tourist police? My daughter was terrified by the actions of the Thai-speaking police officers, who could not understand her or explain the charges to her. She could only communicate with other offenders already in police custody who told her the police were going to put them in jail.

4) Is it a practice of Thai police to force tourists in custody to sign Thai language documents, which they do not understand, as a condition for their release? The incident would have been less intimidating if the police had not forced us to sign Thai documents without any translation.

I believe the authorities should do something to safeguard the interests of tourists and help the police uphold the image of Amazing Thailand.

AN INTIMIDATED TOURIST

--Bangkok Post, Postbag, 2005-07-11

[bdenner]

While ignorance is no excuse I would have thought this person would have contacted the tourist police for help AND:-

This could have been my daughter at 19 on her 1st visit some 2 years ago. We did not question the age limit assuming it to be 18.

[Totster]

This is one of the roles of the Tourist Police isn't it...

To provide language and other help to tourists that find themselves in trouble. Would they be able to provide this kind of help to someone arrested by normal police, or would they not want to "tread on toes"

From the mission statement on the Tourist Police Website

6.To establish the good co-operation between concerned organization both in govern and private sector , both inside the country especially , police organization and the units who force law both inside and outside the country in order to increase the efficiency in protecting the benefits for the tourist.

totster

[Kringle]

I thought it was 187 in Thailand also, so what is the lgal age?

[OlRedEyes]

And another tourist goes back with a story to tell... great for the Thai aim of increasing tourism. Too much of this bullsh*t happening.

No tourist can be expected to know every law of every country they visit. To arrest a 19 yo tourist for being in a bar is pure bull. there are multi thousands of 18 and 19 yo Thai girls working ( and drinking) in bars accross Thailand. WTH are they trying to prove or achieve???

[expatinasia]

I didn't know that "ignorance of the law" was considered to be an adequate defense. God-willing, "intimidated tourist" and daughter will find another country in which to break the law.

[ZZZ]

Most countries have a law saying that certain establishments are not allowed to admit people under a certain age.

Most countries also have a law saying it's illegal to sell alcohol to people under a certain age.

In both cases it's up to the establishment to enforce the law. If the law is violated it's the establishment that is punished, never the under aged as they have not broken any law.

In Thailand it seems like it is the opposite that is valid, as usual.

[bkkexplorer]

This will surely deter quite a few tourists from coming. Expect this to be in the local Singapore newspaper and for tourists cancelling their trips here. What a shame.

And what about the foreigners living here, what if someone who doesn't understand thai (that would be the majority of us) were made to sign documents? What would you do? Actually, the more obvious question is what is the police doing about this but I don't know if we'll get an answer that'll be enforced...

[Merlin]

I thought it was common knowlege that the legal age for drinking here is 20, just like it is in the US. Oh and btw they drive on the left here. And the power is 220V 50HZ. [mostly...] Oh and guess what - you can be thrown in jail for being drunk or possessing alcohol in some muslim countries. Or even caned for doing graffiti in Singapore...

Anyone who goes to a foreign country and claims ignorance of even the most basic things about that country is, well, ignorant!

As for not understanding what she had to sign, did she never think of calling a translator? There's thousands of them in BKK. The mother had to wait an hour and a half - plenty of time to find one. Call the embassy for a start, if you don't have the number of one handy. Again, basics.

The legal age for entrance is clearly displayed at almost all pubs, discos etc - written in plain English and Thai usually. Maybe she went to one that didn't happen to have such a sign, but the OP doesn't say how long she had been in TH - surely she had seen at least one such sign at another place? Then going on to say the pub owner should be responsible - well he probably is about to be shut down for 30 days and/or fined...

Sounds like the mother is looking for anyone to blame except her precious little daughter - what a great example to set, instead of teaching her to be responsible for her own actions.

[liontamer]

This comes on top of trapping 300 tourist and thais inside Lucifers a couple of weeks ago in Pattaya by the police,its not only about drugs as we know.

Its about police extortion from clubs and bars for money,and the arrested people who have to buy there freedom.

[mrbojangles]

Anyone who goes to a foreign country and claims ignorance of even the most basic things about that country is, well, ignorant!

Ditto that Merlin. In my work, i have travelled all over the Globe and i always look up some of the basic facts, even if it is last minute on the plane going there.

As for signing something that was written in Thai.....yeah she was in Thailand. If you can't understand it, call the tourist Police or pay an interpreter. Does she think the Police will have on stand-by an interpreter of every language on this Earth My Marriage Certificate was in Thai and i signed it.........Oh sh1t what have i done

[TizMe]

Sounds like the mother is looking for anyone to blame except her precious little daughter - what a great example to set, instead of teaching her to be responsible for her own actions.

Too much of this going around I'm afraid. It must be somebody's fault... Except mine of course.

[bino]

I wonder how much "bail" was paid!

Bail usually implies a guarantee to appear in court... is there a court appearance?

sounds to me like police taking advantage of tourists for tea money.

[Kringle]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

[Merlin]

oh yes - my mistake.

sorry.

[bossman]

This will surely deter quite a few tourists from coming. Expect this to be in the local Singapore newspaper and for tourists cancelling their trips here. What a shame.

And what about the foreigners living here, what if someone who doesn't understand thai (that would be the majority of us) were made to sign documents? What would you do? Actually, the more obvious question is what is the police doing about this but I don't know if we'll get an answer that'll be enforced...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my opinion it's a situation where i'd have to say "tough sh_t". If you go to a foreign country you should be expected to know what you're getting into. This idea that all people should be accomodated and babied because they are foreigners is ridiculous. I hate when it happens in the west and I hate when it happens here in Thailand too. It's not OUR country it's Thailand and last time I checked the overwhelming majority of people in this country speak and write Thai.

[chownah]

The legal age for drinking in the US is not 21, it varies from state to state since its state law that sets the drinking age....unless they've changed it in the last 4 years or so.

[TokyoT]

The legal age for drinking in the US is not 21, it varies from state to state since its state law that sets the drinking age....unless they've changed it in the last 4 years or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Technically the drinking age is set by State law. However, back in 1984 US Federal government basically tied the states drinking age to federal highway funds. Any state that decides to set a drinking age lower than 21 faces the potential to loss federal highway funding – so no state has a lower drinking age than 21.

So legally the age is set by the state, but each state has set the age at 21 because none of them want to test the Federal government and possibly loose highway funding.

[Nam Kao]

I thought the Thai law was age 18? I regularly drink with 16-18 y/o thais

even with police around with no problem

[Simpleton]

Yes, boys and girls: it's "scary" when you break the law! Goodness me!

[bartender100]

Don't know how old this website is,but it says there is no law in Thailand for drinking,so maybe the law is being in a bar under-age.

Note the only country in the world where its is 21 is the good old USA,There's freedom for you

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html

[Brew]

this is now law on drinking, people who want to visit an entertainment place have to be at least 20. (and they are not allowed to carry guns and have drugs with them. that's what this blue sign from the government says)

that might be a big problem for parents who want to go out with their kids: some restaurants with live music are classified as entertainment places, and they are easy to recognize. you can smoke there, even if they are air-conditioned

Edited July 11, 2005 by Brew

[TokyoT]

As Brew points out the charge was probably not related to consumption but illegally being in the establishment. This being the case does Thailand hold the establishment in any way responsible for allowing someone to enter that is under age?

Not that this relieves her from a share of the responsibility as well.

The wording for laws surrounding alcohol can be quite tricky. I believe the charge was for being in a pub under age – not consumption. Many laws a written around limiting access to establishments, purchase, or possession rather than consumption. As it can be difficult to prove actual consumption (“It was the cough syrup that caused the false reading in the blood alcohol level”).

BTW I think Egypt and Malaysia also share the 21 age.

[andyadam]

Most countries have a law saying that certain establishments are not allowed to admit people under a certain age.

Most countries also have a law saying it's illegal to sell alcohol to people under a certain age.

In both cases it's up to the establishment to enforce the law. If the law is violated it's the establishment that is punished, never the under aged as they have not broken any law.

In Thailand it seems like it is the opposite that is valid, as usual.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, not true in the UK.

If a minor buys alcohol they are comitting an offence along with the PERSON who sells it, and they can both be arrested.

[Merlin]

and in Australia - the underage person, the bartender, and the owner can all be prosecuted. Even the promoter in some cases, like raves etc...

[jackr]

So all these prostitutes working in bars are not breaking the law?

There is no excuse for lack of knowledge on the tourist's part for not reading up on the essentials and basics when visiting another country. Tourist Police - 1155.

[kreon]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great solution, and that's why all the young kids get plastered in tj, instead back at home

[kreon]

I thought the Thai law was age 18?  I regularly drink with 16-18 y/o thais

even with police around with no problem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

at gullivers at khaosan rd, i took one of my 18yr old girls, door checked her id, no problem, sign says 18yrs plus

[Simpleton]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great solution, and that's why all the young kids get plastered in tj, instead back at home

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That may work for San Diego youngsters, but It's a long way from the Great American Heartland to the border just to get "plastered".

[george]

This topic will be discussed on Radio Bangkok's Talk Show programme, "Thailand Today" today July 12 at 17.00pm Bangkok time (rebroadcasted at Midnight and tomorrow morning 05:00am.

Please tune in: http://www.radiobangkok.net

All times are Bangkok time (GMT+7)