Thailand'S Worst Drivers

[Forethat]

If you'd take 1000 Thai drivers and send them on a drive through the capital of my home country, 999 of them would lose their driving license within the hour, out of which ONE would have a slim chance of getting it back EVER following 300 driving lessons and 6 months of studying basic traffic rules and regulations.

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

I think the Thai way of driving only works in an utter chaotic environment like Bangkok; take a Thai driver to a place where order is upheld and people expect you to actually know what you're doing (no Thai driver does), and scary stuff will happen. Farangs probably evaluate Thais driving abilities based on this. I've driven to the NE several times and very rapidly realized I need to think for every driver nearby in order to to avoid sudden and painful death or at least damage to property.

What many Thais fail to understand (apparently) is that upholding the need for a driving license is impossible unless the requirements for getting one is very low, otherwise no one would make an effort to get one in the first place.

To put it simple, Thai people are better drivers than chickens. I'd like to point out I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure it's that obvious because a test of your first premise is impractical and you have drawn conclusions from a source that we can't corroborate.

a - but are you saying that Thai people are inherently less capable of learning how to drive?

b - less able to drive?

c- Inherently have less deductive or cognitive ability than "Farang" drivers?

c - or drive differently and in fact give the same driving instructions and the same environment they would drive just like any other driver i - e.g. in your home country?

You're missing my point - Thai drivers have extremely low levels of education in traffic rules and regulations. They constantly break every rule in the book.

a) no, but the problem is they dont learn. Get it?

according to Thai standards they are able to drive, send him to a western country and he'd be red flagged within the hour.

c) if you read my post you'll find that I'm stating the opposite (BKK)

d) yes, they drive differently (in most western countries its referred to as wreckless driving, but call it whatever you want)

Why argue, Thais cant drive because they dont give a shit about learning simply because there's no requirement to do so. They freaking drive in the wrong direction on motorways, haven't you been paying attantion? They risk their own and other peoples lifes on a regular basis. Read this: They risk the life of their infants by bringing them on a motorbike with no helmet against the traffic on a motorway.

This is not about being deductive or being cognitive, this is about being plain stupid, and not giving a shit about rules and regulations.

[Deeral]

If you'd take 1000 Thai drivers and send them on a drive through the capital of my home country, 999 of them would lose their driving license within the hour, out of which ONE would have a slim chance of getting it back EVER following 300 driving lessons and 6 months of studying basic traffic rules and regulations.

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

I think the Thai way of driving only works in an utter chaotic environment like Bangkok; take a Thai driver to a place where order is upheld and people expect you to actually know what you're doing (no Thai driver does), and scary stuff will happen. Farangs probably evaluate Thais driving abilities based on this. I've driven to the NE several times and very rapidly realized I need to think for every driver nearby in order to to avoid sudden and painful death or at least damage to property.

What many Thais fail to understand (apparently) is that upholding the need for a driving license is impossible unless the requirements for getting one is very low, otherwise no one would make an effort to get one in the first place.

To put it simple, Thai people are better drivers than chickens. I'd like to point out I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure it's that obvious because a test of your first premise is impractical and you have drawn conclusions from a source that we can't corroborate.

a - but are you saying that Thai people are inherently less capable of learning how to drive?

b - less able to drive?

c- Inherently have less deductive or cognitive ability than "Farang" drivers?

d - or drive differently and in fact give the same driving instructions and the same environment they would drive just like any other driver i - e.g. in your home country?

You're missing my point - Thai drivers have extremely low levels of education in traffic rules and regulations. They constantly break every rule in the book.

As I pointed out - that is the "legal" environment" they drive in - does it make them any less capable of driving given the right leaning and driving envvironment.?

a) no, but the problem is they dont learn. Get it? - so you are now saying that Thais are inherently less capable of learning then us "FARANG"?????

according to Thai standards they are able to drive, send him to a western country and he'd be red flagged within the hour. - This is pure conjecture!

c) if you read my post you'll find that I'm stating the opposite (BKK) - I have and I'm questioning because you seem to be contradicting your self - I put down these as possible answers - above you a state that they "don't learn" - is this some d\sort of racial characteristic? If so I'd have to say irt flies in the face or rational thinking.

d) yes, they drive differently (in most western countries its referred to as wreckless driving, but call it whatever you want) - but can they assimilate to driving in your home country? if not why?

Why argue, Thais cant drive because they dont give a shit about learning simply because there's no requirement to do so. They freaking drive in the wrong direction on motorways, haven't you been paying attantion? They risk their own and other peoples lifes on a regular basis. Read this: They risk the life of their infants by bringing them on a motorbike with no helmet against the traffic on a motorway.

This is not about being deductive or being cognitive, this is about being plain stupid, and not giving a shit about rules and regulations.

Now of course you have resorted to racist abuse and stating how they drive as if it is evidence of some "lower" or hierarchical interpretation of driving.

I'm perfectly aware of how people drive in thailand - I caver considerably more miles than mot here as part of my job and I see many examples of Farang who engage in pathetic examples of really stupid driving that seems to stem from a feeling of superiority over the majority of Thai drivers that is actually based on nothing more than they are farang and the "others" are lesser Thais (foreigners in their eyes).

[Lancelot]

Being a motorbike driver I vote vans. They are always in a hurry, super agressive and simply don't care if they case a bike to crash. I suspect many of them are Yaba users...

My second least favorite are the SUV frivers, both locals and farangs. Driving an expensive SUV convinces them they are "HiSo" and it shows in their lack of consideration for others.

Just my two satang

[tassini]

If you'd take 1000 Thai drivers and send them on a drive through the capital of my home country, 999 of them would lose their driving license within the hour, out of which ONE would have a slim chance of getting it back EVER following 300 driving lessons and 6 months of studying basic traffic rules and regulations.

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

I think the Thai way of driving only works in an utter chaotic environment like Bangkok; take a Thai driver to a place where order is upheld and people expect you to actually know what you're doing (no Thai driver does), and scary stuff will happen. Farangs probably evaluate Thais driving abilities based on this. I've driven to the NE several times and very rapidly realized I need to think for every driver nearby in order to to avoid sudden and painful death or at least damage to property.

What many Thais fail to understand (apparently) is that upholding the need for a driving license is impossible unless the requirements for getting one is very low, otherwise no one would make an effort to get one in the first place.

To put it simple, Thai people are better drivers than chickens. I'd like to point out I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure it's that obvious because a test of your first premise is impractical and you have drawn conclusions from a source that we can't corroborate.however - not knowing the rules can lead to problems - simply not recognising a no parking sign could lead to problems.......but this is a two way thing - I is my contention that MOST farang drivers are in fact only "average" drivers and they rally don't have the ability or skills to correctly assess the situation on the roads in Thailand which although strange and different requires a foreigner to drive with skills they never would use at home. So their criticism of Thai driving arise not from bad driving by Thais but from their own inability to cope with this new and unregulated environment.

if a 16 or 17 year old in your home country can pass a driving test - are you suggesting that a Thai driver couldn't do this? Why?

a - but are you saying that Thai people are inherently less capable of learning how to drive?

b - less able to drive?

c- Inherently have less deductive or cognitive ability than "Farang" drivers?

d - or drive differently and in fact give the same driving instructions and the same environment they would drive just like any other driver i - e.g. in your home country?

A. Yes

B. Yes

C. Yes

D. No

The reasons are because the Thai population witness the p*ss poor driving standards in Thailand (note Thai's) from their early years. They know no other way to act on the roads. They grow up never witnessing the correct/safe way to drive/ride cars and motorcycles.

Tassini

[Deeral]

If you'd take 1000 Thai drivers and send them on a drive through the capital of my home country, 999 of them would lose their driving license within the hour, out of which ONE would have a slim chance of getting it back EVER following 300 driving lessons and 6 months of studying basic traffic rules and regulations.

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

I think the Thai way of driving only works in an utter chaotic environment like Bangkok; take a Thai driver to a place where order is upheld and people expect you to actually know what you're doing (no Thai driver does), and scary stuff will happen. Farangs probably evaluate Thais driving abilities based on this. I've driven to the NE several times and very rapidly realized I need to think for every driver nearby in order to to avoid sudden and painful death or at least damage to property.

What many Thais fail to understand (apparently) is that upholding the need for a driving license is impossible unless the requirements for getting one is very low, otherwise no one would make an effort to get one in the first place.

To put it simple, Thai people are better drivers than chickens. I'd like to point out I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure it's that obvious because a test of your first premise is impractical and you have drawn conclusions from a source that we can't corroborate.however - not knowing the rules can lead to problems - simply not recognising a no parking sign could lead to problems.......but this is a two way thing - I is my contention that MOST farang drivers are in fact only "average" drivers and they rally don't have the ability or skills to correctly assess the situation on the roads in Thailand which although strange and different requires a foreigner to drive with skills they never would use at home. So their criticism of Thai driving arise not from bad driving by Thais but from their own inability to cope with this new and unregulated environment.

if a 16 or 17 year old in your home country can pass a driving test - are you suggesting that a Thai driver couldn't do this? Why?

a - but are you saying that Thai people are inherently less capable of learning how to drive?

b - less able to drive?

c- Inherently have less deductive or cognitive ability than "Farang" drivers?

d - or drive differently and in fact give the same driving instructions and the same environment they would drive just like any other driver i - e.g. in your home country?

A. Yes

B. Yes

C. Yes

D. No

The reasons are because the Thai population witness the p*ss poor driving standards in Thailand (note Thai's) from their early years. They know no other way to act on the roads. They grow up never witnessing the correct/safe way to drive/ride cars and motorcycles.

Tassini

So essentially your conclusions on Thai driving are racially orientated - although in truth I don't think you've shown by your answers that you fully understand the questions. - e.g. - "inherently"

Edited September 3, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

Afterreading some of these posts I'd suggest that in fact the criticism ofThai driving has less to do with driving per se but in fact is theold nutmeg of a racist view of Thailand – or all things thai - byexpats who are determined to use any observations they can - usuallyerroneously - to back up some pre-conceived ideas about the countryand how they (Farang) are superior to Thai people in every way.

Thisis a theme that runs through all sorts of posts and topics on thissite and basically it is not placed on empirical experience orcritical thought - it is the random selection of partiallyinterpreted personal observations - that are in themselves bothbiased and inaccurate - to feed the need to promulgate a nineteenthcentury style perception of a racial hierarchy with Westerners oreven White farang at the top.

[MikeyIdea]

***********

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

Absolutely, Thailand and especially the bigger cities can be utter chaos and sometimes almost total anarchy too but there IS an order within the chaos and there IS a system within the chaos. Just doesn't work everytime...

Statistics... I don't trust them anyway but here's what I read;

There was an article in Bangkok Post that I read in 1991 or 1992 that stated 24,000 dead per year in traffic accidents in Thailand. No source and no year specified, guess this was for 1989 or 1990 then

There was another article in Bangkok Post that I read in 1997 I think it was that stated 37,000 dead per year in traffic accidents. No source and no year specified, guess this was for 1996 then.

I think they claim somethink like 14,000 now, someone has the exact figure?

I don't believe the statistics anyway. I remember New Years eve 1999, I drove to Bangkok - Pattaya, on to Jom Tien and then back to Chonburi and I saw 4-5 people killed in accidents on the way, very sad to see. I remember listening to the news 2-3 days later and if I'm to trust the figure they gave for number of dead in the whole country, then I would have seen some 4-5% of all the dead in traffic accidents in the whole country on my trip. Don't think I did. I saw some horrible things and that was the last time I ever drove a bit longer on New Years eve but I don't think I saw what the statistics they gave indicate. So much for statistics

[Deeral]

"At least farangs have been taught the fundamental common sense stuffthat is totally missing from your average native driver. "- this is sadly a rather racist comment and not based on anything butpersonal observation - as you see what you want it can't really betaken seriously.

"I have driven once in BKK " - hardly an experienced stancefor making comments on Thai driving then, is it?

Simply describing and deriding how people drive in Thailand is POINTLESS -especially as most of the descriptions are by incompetent Farangobservers who are only looking for what they perceive as evidence toback up their owen feelings of superiority.

Get used to it!.......

The truth is that Thailand is not fully developed when it comes to a roadsystem - it is really the environment both legal and engineered theydrive in they makes it so challenging. A good standard of trafficengineering and an education process would change a lot of this - aswould a police force that was interested in policing rather thancollecting bribes.

....but that is not how it is and a competent driver can see this and doesn'tneed to resort to claiming how stupid his fellow road users are - itis a declaration of stupidity in itself.

In these circumstances foreign drivers in general are hopelesslyincapable of assessing or adjusting to the situation - or situationsas they arise - and try to defend their own short-comings by writinginto Thai forums complaining about OTHER road users - when in realitythe fault is THEIRS>

The racist card, Deera, get a life chum.

I'm not - others are - and adding a little sound bite like "playing the race card" doesn't exonerate one from the observation or negate the theory.

[WarpSpeed]

You keep trying to inject race into the equation when it is obvious that the entire thread is relative to race referring to Thai drivers so it's really a moot point though you're doing everything you can to spin it otherwise..

It is about western drivers qualifications versus Thai drivers qualifications...Ooooopppsss!!Did I just use the word qualifications and Thai in the same sentence?? Anyway there are a host of equivalent examples not related to driving that display distinguishable differences between Thai's and westerners some good and some bad as a whole so why focus on just this one example and call it racist? I don't buy into this notion that ALL races are equal just as no 2 people are equal in every aspect of life strengths and differences are a part of humans make up..

The fact is there are unnecessary differences as Thais could adopt and enforce better standards but don't, why is that? Stubborn nationalism? Pride, face or just plain inability to do so like a problem child? That in and of itself is a weakness in the character. The entire school system has been condemned to not preparing children properly for their future by only using rote learning instead of any practical hands on teaching methods that also foster and develop common sense and creativity it's well documented the overall maturity level of the average Thai is lower related to other cultures regardless of how you wish to argue the point..

How many examples of seeing this in action do you personally need to experience before you'd accept the reality or is that you have blinders on or maybe rose colored glasses?

Are Thai's inferior? I won't make that jump but certainly their approach to responsibility, safety and common sense is in many instances.

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Forethat]

Now of course you have resorted to racist abuse and stating how they drive as if it is evidence of some "lower" or hierarchical interpretation of driving.

If you are deliberate in your attempts to make an utter fool of yourself I'd say you're doing pretty well.

I'm perfectly aware of how people drive in thailand - I caver considerably more miles than mot here as part of my job and I see many examples of Farang who engage in pathetic examples of really stupid driving that seems to stem from a feeling of superiority over the majority of Thai drivers that is actually based on nothing more than they are farang and the "others" are lesser Thais (foreigners in their eyes).

No, contrary to Thais, the majority of westerners are actually educated in driving, traffic laws and regulations; both practically and theoretically before being licensed to drive a motor vehicle on public roads.

In case you haven't figured it out, there's nothing racist about being stupid, there are plenty of stupid farangs as well. Unfortunately for Thailand, it seems a majority of the farangs settling down here are x criminals or at least undereducated from an academic point of view. Having said that, show me a picture of a farang driving against the traffic with one hand on the handlebar while holding an infant with the other, and I'll forever shut up.

You can call it as racist as you want, the truth is that it's irresponsible, dangerous and bloody stupid .

Edited September 3, 2010 by Forethat

[Deeral]

You keep trying to inject race into the equation when it is obvious that the entire thread is relative to race referring to Thai drivers so it's really a moot point though you're doing everything you can to spin it otherwise..

It is about western drivers qualifications versus Thai drivers qualifications...Ooooopppsss!!Did I just use the word qualifications and Thai in the same sentence?? Anyway there are a host of equivalent examples not related to driving that display distinguishable differences between Thai's and westerners some good and some bad as a whole so why focus on just this one example and call it racist? I don't buy into this notion that ALL races are equal just as no 2 people are equal in every aspect of life strengths and differences are a part of humans make up..

The fact is there are unnecessary differences as Thais could adopt and enforce better standards but don't, why is that? Stubborn nationalism? Pride, face or just plain inability to do so like as problem child? That in and of itself is a weakness in the character. The entire school system has been condemned to not preparing children properly for their future by only using rote learning instead of any practical hands on teaching methods that also foster and develop common sense and creativity it's well documented the overall maturity level of the average Thai is lower related to other cultures regardless of how you wish to argue the point..

How many examples of seeing this in action do you personally need to experience before you'd accept the reality or is that you have blinders on or maybe rose colored glasses?

I'msorry but that's completely wrong - I'm concluding from the posts ofothers - if it was about qualifications then there wouldn't be anypeople who think that Thai people are inherently worse drivers andthere wouldn't be a post about Thai driving - the Topic doesn'tmention race but the opinions expressed clearly show that many of theposters have assessed the situation in Thailand on Racialcharacteristics.NowI am aware that most racist will complain until they are blue in theface they aren't racists - this is largely because they have no ideawhat racism involves - this is usually underlined by a few commentslike some of my best friends are, i've got nothing against them but,and the repeated use of "THEY and THEM" in they argumentswhich depict activities that they seem both typical and seeminglyunacceptable to what they refer to as "US". A themerepeated throughout expat posts.

thishas been demonstrated over and over again. and to cap it all not onlyare they ignorant of racism they apperntly are crap drivers too!

i've addressed the "giving of examples" elsewhere - but to sum up it is only a minuite sample of 70 million. - the above assesment of road accident numbers is a classic example of "eye-witnness" - misinterpretation.

PS - why is everyone so sensitive about race?

Edited September 3, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

"In case you haven’t figured it out, there's nothing racist about being stupid," - but it is racist to suggest that drivers of a certain race/nationality are stupid

[Deeral]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

[Deeral]

"You keep trying to inject race into the equation when it is obvious that the entire thread is relative to race referring to Thai drivers so it's really a moot point though you're doing everything you can to spin it otherwise.." - it's not obvious - you are making an assumption. Try to be a bit more analytical or critical in your approach and question why this post exists in the first place.

I suspect you are the kind of person who used to think the Cadbury's flake advert was al about a girl who was too busy eating Chocolate to answer the phone.

[tassini]

If you'd take 1000 Thai drivers and send them on a drive through the capital of my home country, 999 of them would lose their driving license within the hour, out of which ONE would have a slim chance of getting it back EVER following 300 driving lessons and 6 months of studying basic traffic rules and regulations.

HOWEVER, when I drive in BKK it is obvious that there is an order within the chaos. \And to be honest, if drivers in BKK didn't learn to pay attention they would kill a dozen motorcyclists per day (ehh, what's the stats, maybe I'm on to something here...?)

I think the Thai way of driving only works in an utter chaotic environment like Bangkok; take a Thai driver to a place where order is upheld and people expect you to actually know what you're doing (no Thai driver does), and scary stuff will happen. Farangs probably evaluate Thais driving abilities based on this. I've driven to the NE several times and very rapidly realized I need to think for every driver nearby in order to to avoid sudden and painful death or at least damage to property.

What many Thais fail to understand (apparently) is that upholding the need for a driving license is impossible unless the requirements for getting one is very low, otherwise no one would make an effort to get one in the first place.

To put it simple, Thai people are better drivers than chickens. I'd like to point out I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure it's that obvious because a test of your first premise is impractical and you have drawn conclusions from a source that we can't corroborate.however - not knowing the rules can lead to problems - simply not recognising a no parking sign could lead to problems.......but this is a two way thing - I is my contention that MOST farang drivers are in fact only "average" drivers and they rally don't have the ability or skills to correctly assess the situation on the roads in Thailand which although strange and different requires a foreigner to drive with skills they never would use at home. So their criticism of Thai driving arise not from bad driving by Thais but from their own inability to cope with this new and unregulated environment.

if a 16 or 17 year old in your home country can pass a driving test - are you suggesting that a Thai driver couldn't do this? Why?

a - but are you saying that Thai people are inherently less capable of learning how to drive?

b - less able to drive?

c- Inherently have less deductive or cognitive ability than "Farang" drivers?

d - or drive differently and in fact give the same driving instructions and the same environment they would drive just like any other driver i - e.g. in your home country?

A. Yes

B. Yes

C. Yes

D. No

The reasons are because the Thai population witness the p*ss poor driving standards in Thailand (note Thai's) from their early years. They know no other way to act on the roads. They grow up never witnessing the correct/safe way to drive/ride cars and motorcycles.

Tassini

So essentially your conclusions on Thai driving are racially orientated - although in truth I don't think you've shown by your answers that you fully understand the questions. - e.g. - "inherently"

My conclusions are not racially orientated, are you suggesting I am a racist? I am giving you my reasoning for the poor standards of driving in Thailand. The same can be said about many other countries with extremely poor driving standards (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia) and I have lived and worked in these places. Apologies for not fully understanding your questions, English is not my 1st language. I am Thai! Actually I do believe that the poor driving is ''inherent'' as it now exists permanently within Thailand. It will take many generations to change the Thai mentality to driving.

Other contributing factors.

1. Traffic Police - Joke, money collectors!

2. Driving Schools - Joke.

3. Driving Test - Bigger Joke.

4. Insurance- For Farang.

Do you want more?

[Deeral]

If the cap fits......

also you still don't seem to appreciate my comments about traffic engineering and the legal environment.

if you think your own nationality is inherently less capable of driving then I feel sorry for you - do you include yourself?

Edited September 3, 2010 by Deeral

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity.

If you screw up one merge lane or bus stop you don't continue to do the next 3 or 4 hundred the same way for the next 10 years of road construction..

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

So we should take it on blind faith based on YOUR empirical experience over our own?? Sorry that premise doesn't fly....

[Deeral]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity.

I don't think you understand what I mean by "traffic engineering"

[Deeral]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

So we should take it on blind faith based on YOUR empirical experience over our own?? Sorry that premise doesn't fly....

So can you explain why?Why do you think my conclusions are based solely on my own personal experience?

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity.

I don't think you understand what I mean by "traffic engineering"

I think it's the contrary, you don't understand what "traffic engineering" is... It's an entire system from ground up, it's education, it's enforcement and it's infrastructure and no excuse in this day and age not have any of it from day one...

[Deeral]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

Shifting the goal posts again. So why don't l, a farang now in LOS drive on the wrong side of the road or drive with no lights or overtake on blind bends or overtake on the inside or jump red lights, cos theres no law. Don't think so, l use common sense, l repeat common sense.

I want to get home safe, l also want Thais to get home safe.

Yes that was the opinionI voiced and why I think that this thread is not addressing any real problems or perceptions as you might as well ask "Why am I so much better than other drivers"but I' making observations on the lack of perspicacity of Farangs when they drive as they really don't grasp the underlying cause of their problems (Not Thais) - when driving....as it isn't really about the drivers who are all just about the same range of ability and temperament as anywhere else.

[Forethat]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

So we should take it on blind faith based on YOUR empirical experience over our own?? Sorry that premise doesn't fly....

So can you explain why?Why do you think my conclusions are based solely on my own personal experience?

Sorry for asking, but is this guy for real or is this a troll..?

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

So we should take it on blind faith based on YOUR empirical experience over our own?? Sorry that premise doesn't fly....

So can you explain why?Why do you think my conclusions are based solely on my own personal experience?

You want me to attempt to explain your logic or lack thereof? I've nothing to explain, you seek to discredit every poster here as ill informed and basing their opinion on their personal empirical experience as a bad thing but expect us to take yours as absolute suggesting we wear blinders to our own, at least for me, long time experiences here..

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

this is my premise so it must follow in my opinion, that any criticism of driving is fallacious and a red herring motivated by other concerns than road safety. Largely by those who really haven't grasp the issue holistically yet feel free to voice an opinion based purely on their own experience and prejudices that arise out of a failure to understand the limits of their own experience itself.

So we should take it on blind faith based on YOUR empirical experience over our own?? Sorry that premise doesn't fly....

So can you explain why?Why do you think my conclusions are based solely on my own personal experience?

Sorry for asking, but is this guy for real or is this a troll..?

Beginning to wonder myself whether or not he's just trolling..Anyway I have other things to do...

[tassini]

If the cap fits......

also you still don't seem to appreciate my comments about traffic engineering and the legal environment.

if you think your own nationality is inherently less capable of driving then I feel sorry for you - do you include yourself?

Your comments on traffic engineering and the legal environment are nonsense, why do educated drivers not drive drive like the normal Thai drivers? When was the last time you saw a car being driven down the wrong side of a motorway in the UK. I see it almost daily here! It is learned at a young age by watching others.

The only people who think that the driving in Thailand is of a decent standard are the Thai's themselves (blissfully unaware)..............................oh and you!

If you have arrived here in Thailand from Pakistan/Afghanistan or a similar place I could see how you would be impressed with the Thai driving skills. Are you a Pakistani by any chance? Oh am I being racist again.

If you cannot see that driving here is of a very poor standard you must be on some form of medication and in your own little world.

Bye.

[Deeral]

If the cap fits......

also you still don't seem to appreciate my comments about traffic engineering and the legal environment.

if you think your own nationality is inherently less capable of driving then I feel sorry for you - do you include yourself?

Your comments on traffic engineering and the legal environment are nonsense, why do educated drivers not drive drive like the normal Thai drivers? When was the last time you saw a car being driven down the wrong side of a motorway in the UK. I see it almost daily here! It is learned at a young age by watching others.

The only people who think that the driving in Thailand is of a decent standard are the Thai's themselves (blissfully unaware)..............................oh and you!

If you have arrived here in Thailand from Pakistan/Afghanistan or a similar place I could see how you would be impressed with the Thai driving skills. Are you a Pakistani by any chance? Oh am I being racist again.

If you cannot see that driving here is of a very poor standard you must be on some form of medication and in your own little world.

Bye.

Sorry but you don't seem to be able to follow the argument.

[WarpSpeed]

If the cap fits......

also you still don't seem to appreciate my comments about traffic engineering and the legal environment.

if you think your own nationality is inherently less capable of driving then I feel sorry for you - do you include yourself?

Your comments on traffic engineering and the legal environment are nonsense, why do educated drivers not drive drive like the normal Thai drivers? When was the last time you saw a car being driven down the wrong side of a motorway in the UK. I see it almost daily here! It is learned at a young age by watching others.

The only people who think that the driving in Thailand is of a decent standard are the Thai's themselves (blissfully unaware)..............................oh and you!

If you have arrived here in Thailand from Pakistan/Afghanistan or a similar place I could see how you would be impressed with the Thai driving skills. Are you a Pakistani by any chance? Oh am I being racist again.

If you cannot see that driving here is of a very poor standard you must be on some form of medication and in your own little world.

Bye.

Even India or China for that matter...

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[richard_smith237]

One more point to add to the mix.

Policing. At the end of the majority of traffic jams are police directing traffic. Yesterday I found myself in a jam where the traffic had backed up more than usual into a car park. We'd never experienced a Jam in this location at that time before. It was my wife who suggested that it was a policeman causing this one, she was correct.

Rather than directing traffic - if the police were just to target people breaking one of the simple road laws - blocking box junctions (with the yellow cross), then the Traffic in many of Thailand's cities would improve significantly - Grid lock is caused for the most part through shear selfishness and the lack of 'concept of the greater good'....

And which cars are those that break these laws most commonly? more often than not, the vehicles (cars) we have voted for.

Edited September 3, 2010 by richard_smith237

[Forethat]

If you have arrived here in Thailand from Pakistan/Afghanistan or a similar place I could see how you would be impressed with the Thai driving skills.

I have scary memories from Lebanon where I sometime was overtaken by 12-year olds doing +200 km/h in 500 series Mercs with the elbow casually hanging out the window. They probably would have thought Thailand is filled with skilled drivers.

For those of you who are interested, the traffic situation in Thailand is actually so bad it is damaging the economy. There are lots of research and stats in this field. Here is one I suggest Deeral reads: http://home.kku.ac.th/sthaned/J3.pdf

Enough said, gotta go and work on that swing...

Bye.