Foregn Atm Fee

[Hog Head]

Are there any ATM's in CM using the Plus or Star system not charging a 150 B fee for foreign withdrawls?

[metisdead]

I think the only bank left that does not charge 150B is Aeon.

http://www.aeonthailand.com/lang/en/menu/Service_Location/region/Northern#soutput

[garyh]

Try AEON

[CMX]

I've tried a lot and read what I could find and I understand that it is a national policy in which all banks conspire, er, participate. Korn.... held out for some weeks. I had luck at Aeon once with no fee, but shifted tactics.

I find, however, that banks with exchange facilities (often NOT those at malls, typically those independent structures that are closed weekends) allow direct withdrawals avoiding the fee. In my own case, I take my passport (required) and my bank book and have the money put into my account, but I could as easily withdraw cash - again, no fee that I have incurred (so far). And it does not depend upon having an account.

Rationale for the ATM fee, such as it is, is that ATM's do not check ID, so there is a risk.

I used to be very angry about paying half that fee in the U.S. for domestic use, when not one's own institution.

Edited August 23, 2010 by CMX

[Hog Head]

CMX - what bank is that?

[MESmith]

I use k bank, who have an over the counter limit of 20,000bt, & Bangkok Bank, who I believe have a 50,000 bt limit.

[Hog Head]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

[MESmith]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

I've no idea about your citibank card, but I use my UK bank atm card that works at atms here, & is accepted over the counter to withdraw cash,  no local account necessary.

[Bill97]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

US$430.00 for a wire transfer???? Really difficult to imagine that. Are you trying to wire 16,000 ounces of gold?

[elektrified]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

US$430.00 for a wire transfer???? Really difficult to imagine that. Are you trying to wire 16,000 ounces of gold?

It is usually $40.00 USD or in Thailand they charge 1200 THB. That can't be right. Even Swiss Banks only charge about 40 Swiss Francs for a wire transfer.

[Spoonman]

I use k bank, who have an over the counter limit of 20,000bt,

Is that a limit on your account or .......

Reason I ask is I can pull 240k out of a K bank ATM ( 2 transactions), over the counter im not sure what my limit is, have pulled 300k with no probs though.

[MESmith]

I use k bank, who have an over the counter limit of 20,000bt,

Is that a limit on your account or .......

Reason I ask is I can pull 240k out of a K bank ATM ( 2 transactions), over the counter im not sure what my limit is, have pulled 300k with no probs though.

No, those were the limits they quoted at K-bank when I asked to withdraw 40,000bt. They hadn't seen my card. I thought my UK bank would allow whatever was in the account, but I've never given it much thought, as 40,000 is the most I've needed at one time.

Maybe the balaclava helmet & sunglasses influenced their decision

Edited August 23, 2010 by MESmith

[Spoonman]

I use k bank, who have an over the counter limit of 20,000bt,

Is that a limit on your account or .......

Reason I ask is I can pull 240k out of a K bank ATM ( 2 transactions), over the counter im not sure what my limit is, have pulled 300k with no probs though.

No, those were the limits they quoted at K-bank when I asked to withdraw 40,000bt. They hadn't seen my card. I thought my UK bank would allow whatever was in the account, but I've never given it much thought, as 40,000 is the most I've needed at one time.

Maybe the balaclava helmet & sunglasses influenced their decision

Gotcha, my bad, i missed the foreign card part.

[CMX]

OP,

I have used Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial a number of times, without having an account, and without paying a fee - inside, across the counter. This was using U.S. issued Mastercard or Visas with various affiliations.

Because I have no need for large sums and upon advice of bankers in U.S., I have never attempted to use this withdrawal experience for more than 16,000 baht (per card). That is, I allowed to continue from the U.S. end a limited withdrawal of $500.

In the past when living abroad, I have had cards canceled because some merchant or other has allowed hacking, so I use 3 debit cards for this purpose. These days, I can transfer only 45,000 baht in one (brief) sitting, but go to a branch with comfortable seats, cold water, and short waiting times. I can go as often on consecutive days as I wish, with my passport.

I should add that I've had the experience a number of times that banks' machinery (transfer lines) did not work, but the ATM's DID!

Sending wires in the past for larger sums has cost me $40-$50 U.S., but some banks will do it on occasion as an accommodation depending upon the relationship. Glad to confirm about AEON, which seems enormously popular with Thais everywhere near me.

Edited August 23, 2010 by CMX

[Hog Head]

US$430.00 for a wire transfer???? Really difficult to imagine that. Are you trying to wire 16,000 ounces of gold?

missed a decimal point and it is 40.00 plus 30 for the fee

Edited August 23, 2010 by Hog Head

[Fookhaht]

PLEASE do a thread search on AEON here in ThaiVisa (this has come up before). Some serious red flags have been waved by earlier TV members.

[zippydedodah]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

I regularly transfer money from my USAA bank acct, into my BKK Bank acct here in thailand, with a very minimal charge... something like 150 or 200 baht per transfer... there is a 10K limit on the transfer amount, which is standard for USA.

[Thighlander]

But, if you are taking a cash advance--the fees will be way worse than 150 thb. I think the Op was asking about taking an ATM card from America, and using it at a Bangkok Bank or SCB ATM to withdraw cash. I have an account at Bangkok Bank, and never would be charged to go in the branch and withdraw money. They did tell me it was 200 thb per year to have one of their ATM cards. I can guarantee you this---you will be better off doing it without visa/mastercard.

[Thighlander]

I have a Citibank Singapore card, and am balking at paying their 430.00 USD fee to wire 16,000

Do I understand correctly that I can go into BKK Bank where I have an account, and withdraw and/or transfer from City to BKK without paying a fee?

I regularly transfer money from my USAA bank acct, into my BKK Bank acct here in thailand, with a very minimal charge... something like 150 or 200 baht per transfer... there is a 10K limit on the transfer amount, which is standard for USA.

The restrictions are on outbound; not inbound. More than 20,000 USD out of Thailand requires Central Bank approval. If you are a preferred customer in America, there will be no fee to do a TT to Thailand. Bangkok Bank uses a sliding scale on receive fees, but it peaked out at 500 thb. Of course, there is a buy/sell on the TT.

I've noticed HSBC Offshore, where you can go back and forth between currencies. You may need about 150K USD to get started. Now that I've been with Bangkok Bank for four years, I am going to see if they will approve me for online banking.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Thighlander

[jfchandler]

AEON ATMs thruout Thailand do NOT charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign cards that Thai banks charge. They are the best deal going for ATM withdrawals for non-Thai banks cards. There have been some member reports about their ATMs malfunctioning, and charging a withdrawal, but not dispensing the cash... However, I suspect that happens at times with any ATM... And yes, it's a pain to resolve. However, I've been using AEON ATMs exclusively for almost two years now, and I've never once had an ATM problem with them.

Re counter withdrawals, many (though not all) of the Thai banks will do them fee free for people using foreign ATM cards. However, you don't want to do that with any kind of credit card, because your home bank likely will charge you a cash advance fee and start charging interest from the date of the withdrawal. The withdrawal limits do vary bank to bank among the Thai banks, as might their willingness to do the counter withdrawal. And then , your home bank may also have 24 hour limits on any kind of withdrawals. So either limit could come into play.

I've never done a counter withdrawal, mainly because the AEON ATMs work nicely for me, and because I really don't like carrying my passport around to make bank visits, and like even less having to deal with Thai bank tellers who may or may not have any clue of what I'm trying to transact... And much of the time, seem pretty clueless about anything beyond the routine transactions that they handle with Thai customers most of the time...as opposed to international bank card counter withdrawals.

[Thighlander]

AEON ATMs thruout Thailand do NOT charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign cards that Thai banks charge. They are the best deal going for ATM withdrawals for non-Thai banks cards. There have been some member reports about their ATMs malfunctioning, and charging a withdrawal, but not dispensing the cash... However, I suspect that happens at times with any ATM... And yes, it's a pain to resolve. However, I've been using AEON ATMs exclusively for almost two years now, and I've never once had an ATM problem with them.

Re counter withdrawals, many (though not all) of the Thai banks will do them fee free for people using foreign ATM cards. However, you don't want to do that with any kind of credit card, because your home bank likely will charge you a cash advance fee and start charging interest from the date of the withdrawal. The withdrawal limits do vary bank to bank among the Thai banks, as might their willingness to do the counter withdrawal. And then , your home bank may also have 24 hour limits on any kind of withdrawals. So either limit could come into play.

I've never done a counter withdrawal, mainly because the AEON ATMs work nicely for me, and because I really don't like carrying my passport around to make bank visits, and like even less having to deal with Thai bank tellers who may or may not have any clue of what I'm trying to transact... And much of the time, seem pretty clueless about anything beyond the routine transactions that they handle with Thai customers most of the time...as opposed to international bank card counter withdrawals.

I think what some are referring to as a "counter withdraw" is actually a visa/mc cash advance. I think the key is what ATM network they are a part of; Cirrus, Plus, Star, etc...

It appears that there are two Aeons in CM; one is third floor of Central Airport, the other at "first Carrefour". Does anyone know where that is exactly?

Edited August 23, 2010 by Thighlander

[jfchandler]

Cash advance, at least in U.S. banking terms, usually applies to using a credit card to withdraw funds.... As I mentioned above, that's something people generally don't want to do, because of the typical cash advance fees and interest charges involved.

Counter withdrawal, on the other hand, usually would mean using an ATM/debit card inside the bank thru a teller to withdraw funds that are already in an existing checking or savings account at your home country bank.

For counter withdrawals, in general, the Thai banks don't charge a fee. However, such withdrawals still would be counted as a foreign transaction by a person's home country bank. So if the home country bank charges some fees for foreign transactions, those would still apply.... But at least, the Thai banks 160 baht ATM withdrawal fee would not.

[wolf5370]

AEON ATMs thruout Thailand do NOT charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign cards that Thai banks charge. They are the best deal going for ATM withdrawals for non-Thai banks cards. There have been some member reports about their ATMs malfunctioning, and charging a withdrawal, but not dispensing the cash... However, I suspect that happens at times with any ATM... And yes, it's a pain to resolve. However, I've been using AEON ATMs exclusively for almost two years now, and I've never once had an ATM problem with them.

Re counter withdrawals, many (though not all) of the Thai banks will do them fee free for people using foreign ATM cards. However, you don't want to do that with any kind of credit card, because your home bank likely will charge you a cash advance fee and start charging interest from the date of the withdrawal. The withdrawal limits do vary bank to bank among the Thai banks, as might their willingness to do the counter withdrawal. And then , your home bank may also have 24 hour limits on any kind of withdrawals. So either limit could come into play.

I've never done a counter withdrawal, mainly because the AEON ATMs work nicely for me, and because I really don't like carrying my passport around to make bank visits, and like even less having to deal with Thai bank tellers who may or may not have any clue of what I'm trying to transact... And much of the time, seem pretty clueless about anything beyond the routine transactions that they handle with Thai customers most of the time...as opposed to international bank card counter withdrawals.

I think what some are referring to as a "counter withdraw" is actually a visa/mc cash advance. I think the key is what ATM network they are a part of; Cirrus, Plus, Star, etc...

It appears that there are two Aeons in CM; one is third floor of Central Airport, the other at "first Carrefour". Does anyone know where that is exactly?

What, the Carrefour? Guess its the one on the Sper Highway (lampang Road) before Big-C and after Arcade Bus Station heading towards Lamphun.

I never realised AEON was a bank - I thought it was a loan company!

[jfchandler]

AEON is not a bank, which is the reason they are not charging the 150 baht ATM fee that Thai banks do...

AEON here is the Thailand branch of a Japanese credit card company. They have ATMs so their customers can make payments and withdraw funds from their accounts with AEON. But their ATMs accept all regular VISA and MC logo cards, same as other ATMs.

[hml367]

You probably cannot use an ATM card inside the bank. An ATM card is for ATM's. You could pobably use a credit card or a debit card. The two work the same way if they are issued by Visa/Mastercard. There could be a card issued by or for the holder's financial institution which could be an ATM/debit card combination. This card could also be made to allow cash advances/charges against the cardholder's credit card account. That does not make it a credit card.

The foreign transaction fee is levied by the card issuing company, i.e.: Visa, Mastercard, etc. The foreign transaction fee is not levied against the cardholder. It is levied against the card issuing financial institution. That financial institution is allowed to pass on that charge to the cardholder. They are also allowed to charge more than Visa/Mastercard may charge them. In other words, Visa may charge a card issuing bank 1% for a foreing transaction. The bank can charge cardholder's account 3%. This is an example. USAA rebates this amount to its members that are on active duty..... not to its members that are not on active duty.

When the cash transaction (withdrawal, over the counter, whatever you want to call it... it is getting cash available to the end user) is billed to the cardholder, usually the Thai bank ATM handling fee is included in the cash advanced amount. In other words, if you withdraw 5,000 THB from an ATM, the acual charge against the account would be for 5,150, assuming the ATM fee is 150 THB.

The cardholder's financial institution can set the foreign currency exchange rate at whatever they want. In my personal experience, USAA Bank gave a lower exchange rate than when I used another US financial institutions in an ATM or inside the bank, or even when I have transferred money to Bangkok Bank, New York, for final settlement to my Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. The net effect was that it was cheaper for me to use my debit card inside Bankgkok Bank to transfer money to my Bangkok Bank account. That is my personal experience. When transferring large sums the difference in the exchange rate can be substantial.

I think that getting caught up in what exact word represent what doesn't make sense. The translation from English to Thai (or any other language) does not necessarily convey the same definition. If you recieve the "use of money" for some reason, that is one part of a contractural arrangement. I believe that is the same in English speaking countries and Thailand for sure. The Thai bank does not care whether the cash they advance is from a credit card, checking account, savings account, line of credit, or any other means. In fact they do not even know where the money comes from, other than which financial institution.

NOW... The original post had to do with the ATM fee. That is something that the Thai banking regulators allowed Thai banks to charge ATM users with a card issued from a non-Thai bank. I have not heard of any ATM charging this fee without sufficient warning to the user.

I personally have never used an AEON ATM. However, if they do not charge the 150 THB fee does not necessarily make it a better place to do ATM transactions. It may be better, I do not know. It does depend on whether they offer the same foreign currency exchange rate on the transaction. For all I know they may offer a better exchange rate. I doubt that, but it is possible.

This is from easily found information for Visa. I have not found it so easy to find in the case of Mastercard:

***

What is Visa’s fee structure for international transactions?

Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system.

The fees are paid by financial institutions on transactions that require the use of our global infrastructure. Since Visa does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants, we have no involvement in financial institution pricing to cardholders or merchants. If financial institutions or merchants decide to assess a foreign transaction fee to their customers, they are required to provide details to their cardholders and consumers.

As part of Visa’s international functionality, Visa has offered international processing services to its financial institutions for more than twenty years. Over the years, Visa has become a symbol of international acceptance, and Visa views its global support services as paramount to providing its cardholders with superior value and benefits.

***

MSPain

Cash advance, at least in U.S. banking terms, usually applies to using a credit card to withdraw funds.... As I mentioned above, that's something people generally don't want to do, because of the typical cash advance fees and interest charges involved.

Counter withdrawal, on the other hand, usually would mean using an ATM/debit card inside the bank thru a teller to withdraw funds that are already in an existing checking or savings account at your home country bank.

For counter withdrawals, in general, the Thai banks don't charge a fee. However, such withdrawals still would be counted as a foreign transaction by a person's home country bank. So if the home country bank charges some fees for foreign transactions, those would still apply.... But at least, the Thai banks 160 baht ATM withdrawal fee would not.

[jfchandler]

HML, you made a long and detailed post, and managed to lose some simple truths in the process..

1. ATM withdrawal exchange rates are set by the VISA/MC networks based on whichever logo card you use, not by the person's home country bank. So the base exchange rate someone gets using a VISA/MC logo card at an AEON ATM is going to be the same as pretty much any other Thai bank ATM transaction.

The only way there might be some variation is when the person's home country bank is taking a larger charge than the typical 1% fee assessed by VISA and MC, which is not the same thing as setting the exchange rate. And indeed that does happen with banks taking a larger cut.

But in those cases, that same larger cut by the home country bank again is going to apply equally, whether it's an AEON ATM or one belonging to one of the Thai banks. So in almost any case, the important thing to understand is that whatever home bank card a person is using here, AEON ATMs are going to be the best way to make an ATM withdrawal in Thailand because they don't charge the 150 baht fee.

If someone has a BofA card, for example, they'd get the same exchange rate on a transaction made at the exact same time from an AEON ATM vs a BKK Bank or SCB bank ATM... The difference would be, AEON would not charge the 150 baht fee, whereas BKK and SCB do.

Now, it's also true that many of the big U.S. banks charge a 3% foreign currency transaction fee, whereas others don't charge any foreign currency fee. So that's an argument for being careful about which home country card you choose to use when abroad. But the best solution is to use a card from home that doesn't charge any foreign currency fees and then make your ATM withdrawals via AEON ATMs.

2. The distinction between ATM cards and debit cards is a bit blurry in terminology.. But for the purposes of doing counter withdrawals at Thai banks, those that do counter withdrawals are certainly going to accept any card carrying a Visa or MC logo. I have some bank ATM cards that carry the Cirrus or STAR network logos, but not VISA or MC logo... Whether those would be accepted by the Thai banks for counter withdrawals I can't say. Most people use bank cards carrying a VISA or MC logo. Though many Thai bank ATM machines do carry logo that say they accept STAR and other network cards.

[hml367]

JFC..

I am not going to argue with you. You will not be convinced that you could be wrong. I was in charge of the plastic department at a financial institution in the US. Maybe you have better sources of information.

MSPain

HML, you made a long and detailed post, and managed to lose some simple truths in the process..

1. ATM withdrawal exchange rates are set by the VISA/MC networks based on whichever logo card you use, not by the person's home country bank. So the base exchange rate someone gets using a VISA/MC logo card at an AEON ATM is going to be the same as pretty much any other Thai bank ATM transaction.

The only way there might be some variation is when the person's home country bank is taking a larger charge than the typical 1% fee assessed by VISA and MC, which is not the same thing as setting the exchange rate. And indeed that does happen with banks taking a larger cut.

But in those cases, that same larger cut by the home country bank again is going to apply equally, whether it's an AEON ATM or one belonging to one of the Thai banks. So in almost any case, the important thing to understand is that whatever home bank card a person is using here, AEON ATMs are going to be the best way to make an ATM withdrawal in Thailand because they don't charge the 150 baht fee.

If someone has a BofA card, for example, they'd get the same exchange rate on a transaction made at the exact same time from an AEON ATM vs a BKK Bank or SCB bank ATM... The difference would be, AEON would not charge the 150 baht fee, whereas BKK and SCB do.

Now, it's also true that many of the big U.S. banks charge a 3% foreign currency transaction fee, whereas others don't charge any foreign currency fee. So that's an argument for being careful about which home country card you choose to use when abroad. But the best solution is to use a card from home that doesn't charge any foreign currency fees and then make your ATM withdrawals via AEON ATMs.

2. The distinction between ATM cards and debit cards is a bit blurry in terminology.. But for the purposes of doing counter withdrawals at Thai banks, those that do counter withdrawals are certainly going to accept any card carrying a Visa or MC logo. I have some bank ATM cards that carry the Cirrus or STAR network logos, but not VISA or MC logo... Whether those would be accepted by the Thai banks for counter withdrawals I can't say. Most people use bank cards carrying a VISA or MC logo. Though many Thai bank ATM machines do carry logo that say they accept STAR and other network cards.

Edited August 24, 2010 by hml367

[MESmith]

But for the purposes of doing counter withdrawals at Thai banks, those that do counter withdrawals are certainly going to accept any card carrying a Visa

or MC logo. 

Mine's a VISA debit card.  Works fine for over the counter withdrawals.

[Thighlander]

Just to add two more Baht, I was looking at a bank statement from July 2008, that shows Chiang Mai spelled three different ways for three different ATMs I used.

Cheangmai, Chiengmai, and Chiangmai. Looks like then, they were giving a solid rate, then charging me two percent (ING Direct).

[jfchandler]

Congratulations on that, but you also didn't specifically challenge any of the facts I laid out...

Let me put this more simply for folks..

Some people think, when making ATMs withdrawals in Thailand, that different Thai banks will have different exchange rates. Basically, with one small exception, that's not true. The rates used here are all set by the VISA and MC networks that handle those transactions. So it doesn't pay to shop one Thai bank ATM vs. another. They all. except for Bank of Ayudhya in certain situations, yield the same rates. The only difference among them is Thai banks charge the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee, and AEON ATMs do not.

Now, that applies to ATM withdrawals. I'm not sure that same situation applies for counter withdrawals. I believe there are some Thai banks that use their own exchange rates for counter withdrawals... SCB maybe one of those. But as I said above, I'm not so experienced in counter withdrawals...so others may have more info on that. On ATM withdrawals, however, based on much experience, I am certain.

Now, it is equally true that people's HOME banks may have differing charges for making foreign ATM transactions. Some just use the base VISA/MC exchange rate and don't add on any fee, including banks like E-Trade and Charles Schwab. Some add a 1% foreign currency fee. Some add 2 or 3% or more, mostly including the major U.S. banks like BofA, which are the worst to use generally speaking for international withdrawals.

So, while one Thai bank vs. another is not going to be any different for ATM withdrawals, what home country bank card you use definitely can make a big difference in terms of how much of a foreign currency fee they tack on... Note that they're called foreign currency transactions fees.... not a different exchange rate.

I am not going to argue with you. You will not be convinced that you could be wrong. I was in charge of the plastic department at a financial institution in the US. Maybe you have better sources of information.

MSPain

Edited August 24, 2010 by jfchandler