Why Does Thailand Have Such A Bad Reputation ?

LaoPo · August 23, 2010

Why thailand have such a bad reputation for its women?

thanks to the farang visitors who fantasise coming to paradise island to have cheap sex with different women every night and decades of P2P advertising, recommendations, magazine reviews on how cheap, easy and splendid the sex workers are to offer you their services

and thanks to farang and jap entrepreneurs who expanded the prostitution industry to the international level and multiplying them throughout thailand to attract even more fantasy holidaymakers from their respective countries and beyond

thanks to all these, opportunities given to thai entreprenuers to establish prominent joints for the huge demand for its services from both domestic and international markets.

You make some valid points but maybe you should (re) read my post:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3833753

To point to Farang/Japanese visitors for the present sex reputation of Thailand is a bit too much "honor"....if you understand what I mean.

There WAS already a huge sex industry in Thailand BEFORE farang and other tourists arrived and the present Thai/Thai sex industry is by far much larger than the Thai/Farang industry.

In thousands of villages and towns there are many obscure places where the Thai man can find his "Thai match" so to speak but there are no signs of Thai/Farang bars offering the same in the far neighborhood.

The Thai/Farang sex industry is very concentrated in a few places in Thailand and I don't think I have to mention them here; everybody knows where they are.

The Mia Noi phenomenon in Thailand (and other parts of Asia) is another part of the Thai/Thai "sex industry" and on a scale that will make farang men abroad blush and ashamed; there's no way farang men can match their Thai opponents; having a Mia Noi is not only quite common in Thailand it's also considered to be some kind of prestige amongst men and business men in particular.

We don't know about such prestige in the west, showing off with a Mia Noi....or 2 or 3 or more*; not on the scale as it's known in Thailand.

Something to think about.

Maybe not nice to hear but the truth.

* I know a Thai business man who's proud to have 5 Mia Nois....

But, you're correct that with the increasing tourism to Thailand, the phenomenon that some of the Thai girls were "easy to get and cheap" was certainly a factor that male tourism increased substantially and co-created Thailand's bad name abroad.

But, if you're Thai, and I assume so, why bother too much since you know very well that it is only a minority** of tourists who come to Thailand just for sex and also a minority of your beautifull women who make their living in another profession "other" than in a normal job.

** a minority..but indeed MOST visible; the other MAJORITY of tourists are invisible and enjoying their holidays...

LaoPo

thaifkrlim · August 23, 2010

There WAS already a huge sex industry in Thailand BEFORE farang and other tourists arrived and the present Thai/Thai sex industry is by far much larger than the Thai/Farang industry.

In thousands of villages and towns there are many obscure places where the Thai man can find his "Thai match" so to speak but there are no signs of Thai/Farang bars offering the same in the far neighborhood.

The Thai/Farang sex industry is very concentrated in a few places in Thailand and I don't think I have to mention them here; everybody knows where they are.

The Mia Noi phenomenon in Thailand (and other parts of Asia) is another part of the Thai/Thai "sex industry" and on a scale that will make farang men abroad blush and ashamed; having a Mia Noi is not only quite common in Thailand it's also considered to be some kind of prestige amongst men and business men in particular.

We don't know about such prestige in the west, showing off with a Mia Noi....or 2 or 3 or more*; not on the scale as it's known in Thailand.

* I know a Thai business man who's proud to have 5 Mia Nois....

LaoPo

Polygamy in Thailand, who cares, it's unrelated to Thai women's reputation

if the sex industry is or was just a domestic problem, it wouldnt be called "reputation", reputation to whom?

dumball · August 23, 2010

It is strange and a little off topic in a way , only once was I put through the grinder at Canadian customs in many returns from Thailand , a sniffer dog had located a partialy consumed chicken sandwich in my carry on , the handler said "No problem" so I just ignored it . Customs tore my luggage apart , even removing the liner to check for explosive material , but only cast a cursory glance at my CDs of photos , my camera and my computer , all of this over what is termed as 'Processed food ' and perfectly legal .

I still say the bad reputation is a Thai thing that they alone can turn around , they pomote sex shows quite openly in tourism spots whilst hiding the Thai on Thai brothels that can be found at most places you travel . It is the backyard of thier own choosing and created because it is accepted freely by Thai culture , us foriegners have nothing to do with what Thai have presented for decades .

By the way the distillers , thank you for promoting the man from Cambodia , I have no shame in what I post , just opinions like most everybody , and what I have seen .and experienced .

koheesti · August 23, 2010

I concur. The Russian ladies are especially well represented. In Oman, I saw quite a few Chinese prostitutes hanging around the bars.

I think we are drifting away from the OP's worries about Thailand's reputation BECAUSE of prostitution and the fact that normal women are often considered to be prostitutes.

Dubai and Oman, as well as the other countries, mentioned, do not have a bad name abroad for being a holiday destination for sex tourists. Do they ?

LaoPo

Sex tourists don't go where it costs ten times as much as Thailand (as it is in Dubai). So maybe the reputation of Thailand will improve if they raise their prices.

LaoPo · August 23, 2010

Polygamy in Thailand, who cares, it's unrelated to Thai women's reputation

if the sex industry is or was just a domestic problem, it wouldnt be called "reputation", reputation to whom?

OK, let's leave the Mia Noi out of the discussion.

Remains the reputation; the reputation finds it's foundations on an existing wide-spread sex industry and that reputation, since tourism boomed, spread around the world.

You can't blame the tourist -exclusively- for that; only the existing culture within Thailand itself in combination with booming tourism

If there wouldn't have been such a wide-spread sex industry in the first place it wouldn't have had a bad name also. There are more countries in the area who are not "famous" for this kind of industry.

Malaysia is an example and attracts more tourists (23+ million in 2009) than Thailand and have a lot less people (less than 30 million versus 66 million) but does NOT have the sex industry name Thailand has.

Difference in culture and tolerance (and religion).

LaoPo

Rumpole · August 23, 2010

Overall countries in that region DO have a somewhat bad reputation. Syria, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Israel, etc.

Dubai is somewhat an oddity. And Egypt actually does have a not very good reputation, but Egypt is Egypt, it is like Jerusalem, it is such an important and fascinating region that it will attract tourists no matter what.

And Western Turkey can be put in the same category as Greece, it is sort of considered part of Europe in most people's mind. The rest of the country does not have a very good reputation.

So IMO IanForbes is overall right, Muslim countries generally do not have a good reputation.

But he also stated they were not tourist destinations, which is patently not correct. The Middle East may have a "bad reputation" among the general populace in the USA, fueled no doubt by media hype and general ignorance of the region; however for many Europeans, Egypt, Turkey, Morocco, Dubai and to a much lesser extent Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia and Oman, are seen as desirable holiday locations, as evidenced by some of the figures quoted in my previous post.

jackr · August 23, 2010

To answer the op, first and foremost is the need to revert back to the title, Siam. Whatever you try and do, the word 'Thailand' will forever be synonymous with you-know-what for those folks with a narrow field of view. Most people don't even know where it is, but as soon as they hear Thailand mentioned, they think they know what it's about.

Unfortunately, it is not taken seriously as a country, more a place to go for you-know-what, being set up exclusively for that purpose. Highlight the fact that the vast majority of the 60-plus million people are normal people doing normal things and that less than one percent of the populace engage in prostitution. Of course, the tourism powers that be on both sides of the divide wouldn't want to do that as it doesn't sell holidays.

cyberia · August 23, 2010

Proportionally speaking..for the size of its population, geography, and its historical centrality to Asia..China's tourism should be way more than "4th" in the world.

Also, most of the tourists going to Israel are mostly the well off Jewish immigrants who have lived for generations in the U.S., Europe, etc.. going back to the "motherland" to visit. You won't find many tourists at all outside of that demographic.

Proportionally speaking.. you don't have a slightest idea what you are talking about.

I have been to Israel and my cousin goes there once a year and her friends go there once a year and she is not Jewish.

they go to the Dead Sea area resorts. Why? excellent health spas and great service. It's not cheap by any means, but apparently people feel it's worth the money.

Now, the majority of tourists that visit Israel come from the US and Europe and they are TOURISTS meaning that they come to see the country not visit some virtual relatives that you have

tried to mention in your post due to the lack of knowledge and information.

Be warned, if you stay long enough in LOS you run a rick of being disconnected from the reality as it seems being your case.

Thanks Jinting for the informative posts

...and despite all it's shortcomings I still like Thailand a lot.; though I start leaning towards Malaysia, have visited many times and love it...

Cheers

StreetCowboy · August 24, 2010

I concur. The Russian ladies are especially well represented. In Oman, I saw quite a few Chinese prostitutes hanging around the bars.

I think we are drifting away from the OP's worries about Thailand's reputation BECAUSE of prostitution and the fact that normal women are often considered to be prostitutes.

Dubai and Oman, as well as the other countries, mentioned, do not have a bad name abroad for being a holiday destination for sex tourists. Do they ?

LaoPo

Sex tourists don't go where it costs ten times as much as Thailand (as it is in Dubai). So maybe the reputation of Thailand will improve if they raise their prices.

Dubai's a pretty good destination for sex tourism, and I can recommend it. Accomodation is expensive, though, and you need to avoid the "family" hotels.

Its not just about the money. (I'm goig th right way for a smacked bottom - apologies to the mods, I'll leave it there...).

I would be very surprised if Oman even came close... if the money runs out when you're in Dubai, you could move a few kilometres up the road to Ajman...though I've never been there...ha ha - AjMan, the Bangkok of the West - only with mosques instead of temples... They are actually really quite different, and I really wouldn't recommend a holiday in Ajman except if you'd run out of money in Dubai.

Anyway, I've never really been one for holidays.

SC

phetaroi · August 24, 2010

Shocking truth: the beer bars and gogos are perfectly legal, as well as the girls deciding themselves if they want to go with you for money or not. Freelancers are legal too.

There is nothing to enforce there, except against:

- Thai brothels

- bars/brothels with short time rooms

- establishments where the act is performed on the premises (blow-job bars)

But let's remember that there is a difference between what is legal and what is right.

darhut · August 24, 2010

To OP (tatee)

My wife is Thai and before she met my falung friends, some of those friends had differing views of what to expect.

I had a work friend who had convienced himself that she was indeed a hooker without ever meeting her, so I invited him and his wife to dinner.

After meeting her they both thought she was a lovely person and whenever I see him he always asks how she is.

I had another friend who was also my housemaid before my wife joined me in Farangland, she would constantly refer to my wife in derogatory terms, after they met, my exhousekeeper thinks the sun shines out of my wife.

All of the rest of my friends had positive thoughts about my wife before they met.

Out of all of my friends and family they all think my wife is great and a lovely person after meeting her.

You sound like an intelligent person and I would imagine you would have the same positive impressions on people as my wife has.

It all helps on changing peoples perceptions of what Thailand and Thais are.

Max2010 · August 24, 2010

I concur. The Russian ladies are especially well represented. In Oman, I saw quite a few Chinese prostitutes hanging around the bars.

I think we are drifting away from the OP's worries about Thailand's reputation BECAUSE of prostitution and the fact that normal women are often considered to be prostitutes.

Dubai and Oman, as well as the other countries, mentioned, do not have a bad name abroad for being a holiday destination for sex tourists. Do they ?

LaoPo

Sex tourists don't go where it costs ten times as much as Thailand (as it is in Dubai). So maybe the reputation of Thailand will improve if they raise their prices.

Dubai is not only for the rich and famous. Long before, small traders sailed to Dubai to barter goods. An army of cheap laboures from Bangladesh, Pakistan, India and elsewhere built Dubai as we know it and millions more stay behind to service it because the locals refuse to do menial jobs. As I said earlier, millions of Africans and others in the region depend on Dubai for many of their import needs like rice, cars, electronics, etc. The cost of living is not that much different than that in Thailand. You can easily have breakfast for under 1 US dollars. Just like Thailand, if you wish, you can also have a 100 dollar breakfast at one of their 5 star hotels. There is no tax in Dubai and food is very cheap, even though most of it is imported. There are hundreds of hotels under 30 dollars for traders from poor countries to use everyday. The ones I stayed in Deira area and the Gold Souk area were all under 25 dollars a day with A/C. Cheap gas means taxis are also very affortable.

for

Max2010

sarahsbloke · August 24, 2010

Proportionally speaking..for the size of its population, geography, and its historical centrality to Asia..China's tourism should be way more than "4th" in the world.

Also, most of the tourists going to Israel are mostly the well off Jewish immigrants who have lived for generations in the U.S., Europe, etc.. going back to the "motherland" to visit. You won't find many tourists at all outside of that demographic.

Proportionally speaking.. you don't have a slightest idea what you are talking about.

I have been to Israel and my cousin goes there once a year and her friends go there once a year and she is not Jewish.

I've been to Israel with friends, none of us were Jewish or had any relatives there.

No other visitors in the hotel, that I spoke to, were Jewish or had any relatives living there either.

Edited August 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

Max2010 · August 24, 2010

In the western world men are restricted in their access to women and sex.

In Thailand men have sexual freedom, and everyone has a very casual attitude to sex.

Those who want to continue to control a western man's access to sex will bad-mouth any country that doesn't view things the same way.

But as I have pointed out above. The negative view of Thai women is not restricted the west - It is present in both Japan and Signapore and you can't pin the "Big Bad West" badge on eitehr of those places.

There are just over one million Koreans and Chinese living in Japan whose ancestors were brought in (some against their will) as cheap labour by the Imperial Army. The other million consists of over 300,000 from the Philippines . There are only about 40,000 Thai citizens, 20,000 less than that of Americans. Please see http://www.ipss.go.jp/index-e.asp for more info.

Max2010

thaimate · August 24, 2010

I believe that they have a bad reputation because most people who come to Thailand see the bars and only ever get to talk to bar girls and never meet "real" Thai women,the same with news shows and newspaper articles about Thailand ,no one would be say interested in my lifestyle with me and my wife going shopping at tesco or my sons day at school ,they just show bars and hookers ,much more interesting .

my familly think the world of my wife ,she is articulate and well traveled ,my son goes to university in a year or so ,we lived in the U.K for many years and only once did i have a problem and that was with a p a k i who was very rude saying why would an asian marry a white bloke.

wintermute · August 24, 2010

Proportionally speaking..for the size of its population, geography, and its historical centrality to Asia..China's tourism should be way more than "4th" in the world.

Also, most of the tourists going to Israel are mostly the well off Jewish immigrants who have lived for generations in the U.S., Europe, etc.. going back to the "motherland" to visit. You won't find many tourists at all outside of that demographic.

Proportionally speaking.. you don't have a slightest idea what you are talking about.

I have been to Israel and my cousin goes there once a year and her friends go there once a year and she is not Jewish.

I've been to Israel with friends, none of us were Jewish or had any relatives there.

No other visitors in the hotel, that I spoke to, were Jewish or had any relatives living there either.

I once saw a man with blue dyed hair this means all men have blue dyed hair. You're mentioning exceptions and making it the rule. Every city of moderate size have hotels that may have a higher ratio of foreigners. This still doesn't mean Israel has more non-jewish visitors somehow. I even saw the statistics broken down into particular nationalities before. Jewish Americans frequently fly back to Israel.

TheLaughingMan · August 24, 2010

Why thailand have such a bad reputation for its women?

thanks to the farang visitors who fantasise coming to paradise island to have cheap sex with different women every night and decades of P2P advertising, recommendations, magazine reviews on how cheap, easy and splendid the sex workers are to offer you their services

and thanks to farang and jap entrepreneurs who expanded the prostitution industry to the international level and multiplying them throughout thailand to attract even more fantasy holidaymakers from their respective countries and beyond

thanks to all these, opportunities given to thai entreprenuers to establish prominent joints for the huge demand for its services from both domestic and international markets.

You are totally and completely wrong. The foreign customers are a drop in the bucket for the entire prostitution market of Thailand. If you do not want to accept this just keep living with your fantasies and illusions, but the reality is, Thailand got its rep because it was already like this. Foreigners simply discovered it way after the fact, and thanks to the internet and mass media, word travelled fast the past couple decades and the rep grew.

Jingthing · August 24, 2010

I once saw a man with blue dyed hair this means all men have blue dyed hair. You're mentioning exceptions and making it the rule. Every city of moderate size have hotels that may have a higher ratio of foreigners. This still doesn't mean Israel has more non-jewish visitors somehow. I even saw the statistics broken down into particular nationalities before. Jewish Americans frequently fly back to Israel.

You are just WRONG. Stop talking what you don't know about, please.

Tourist demographics
According to the Israeli Ministry of Tourism, 54% of the 2.7 million visitors to Israel in 2009 were Christian. Jewish tourists accounted for 39 percent. Revenue from tourism in 2009 totalled $ 3.3 billion

.

carmine · August 24, 2010

I once saw a man with blue dyed hair this means all men have blue dyed hair. You're mentioning exceptions and making it the rule. Every city of moderate size have hotels that may have a higher ratio of foreigners. This still doesn't mean Israel has more non-jewish visitors somehow. I even saw the statistics broken down into particular nationalities before. Jewish Americans frequently fly back to Israel.

You are just WRONG. Stop talking sheit you don't know about, please.
Tourist demographics
According to the Israeli Ministry of Tourism, 54% of the 2.7 million visitors to Israel in 2009 were Christian. Jewish tourists accounted for 39 percent. Revenue from tourism in 2009 totalled $ 3.3 billion

.

Well said JT. I lived in Israel for a year...never heard such a load of BS.

wintermute · August 24, 2010

I once saw a man with blue dyed hair this means all men have blue dyed hair. You're mentioning exceptions and making it the rule. Every city of moderate size have hotels that may have a higher ratio of foreigners. This still doesn't mean Israel has more non-jewish visitors somehow. I even saw the statistics broken down into particular nationalities before. Jewish Americans frequently fly back to Israel.

You are just WRONG. Stop talking what you don't know about, please.
Tourist demographics
According to the Israeli Ministry of Tourism, 54% of the 2.7 million visitors to Israel in 2009 were Christian. Jewish tourists accounted for 39 percent. Revenue from tourism in 2009 totalled $ 3.3 billion

.

Eh? A lot of "goyim" are married to Jews so it wouldn't surprise me that roughly 54% are Christian. Spouses married to jews are considered Christian a lot of times because conversion is not always recognized. Why is everyone getting so touchy about this?

Just from the tone of responses you would think I was arguing for Palestinian rights or something, sheesh.

Edited August 24, 2010 by wintermute

IanForbes · August 24, 2010

Why is everyone getting so touchy about this?

Haven't you learned by now that EVERYTHING that is printed on thaivisa is disected and scrutinized like it was serial murderer investigation? Be sure you don't make any spelling errors and always have your "t" crossed and your "i" dotted.

SuperstarStatus · August 24, 2010

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

StreetCowboy · August 24, 2010

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

So are you saying that people believe Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work because of the emails that we receive from our friends that have been there?

Or are you saying that people believe that there are hookers standing three deep on the side of Sukhumvit Road because I made that up based on stereotypes, and my friends that believed that were gullible?

SC

Edited August 24, 2010 by bonobo

Berkshire · August 24, 2010

Why thailand have such a bad reputation for its women?

thanks to the farang visitors who fantasise coming to paradise island to have cheap sex with different women every night and decades of P2P advertising, recommendations, magazine reviews on how cheap, easy and splendid the sex workers are to offer you their services

and thanks to farang and jap entrepreneurs who expanded the prostitution industry to the international level and multiplying them throughout thailand to attract even more fantasy holidaymakers from their respective countries and beyond

thanks to all these, opportunities given to thai entreprenuers to establish prominent joints for the huge demand for its services from both domestic and international markets.

You are totally and completely wrong. The foreign customers are a drop in the bucket for the entire prostitution market of Thailand. If you do not want to accept this just keep living with your fantasies and illusions, but the reality is, Thailand got its rep because it was already like this. Foreigners simply discovered it way after the fact, and thanks to the internet and mass media, word travelled fast the past couple decades and the rep grew.

Actually, laughingman, I think you're wrong. The reputation that Thailand has overseas has to do with how foreigners perceive Thailand as a sex destination for foreigners. That's it and that's all. That UK film crew cruising Pattaya is not going to be interested in brothels frequented by locals--they're only interested in the brothels where foreigners go. And then there are these internet sites where farangs post about their sexual escapades. And the news stories of foreign pedophiles being arrested in Thailand. So you can keep repeating that same old tired drivel about the Thais and the "entire prostitution market of Thailand." No one's interested in that. They're interested about Thailand as a sex destination for foreign sex tourists. So basically, thaifkrlim's got a point.

Berkshire · August 24, 2010

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

So are you saying that people believe Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work because of the emails that we receive from our friends that have been there?

Or are you saying that people believe that there are hookers standing three deep on the side of Sukhumvit Road because I made that up based on stereotypes, and my friends that believed that were gullible?

SC

So SC, are you suggesting that all Thai women are hookers?

Travel2003 · August 24, 2010

Why thailand have such a bad reputation for its women?

thanks to the farang visitors who fantasise coming to paradise island to have cheap sex with different women every night and decades of P2P advertising, recommendations, magazine reviews on how cheap, easy and splendid the sex workers are to offer you their services

and thanks to farang and jap entrepreneurs who expanded the prostitution industry to the international level and multiplying them throughout thailand to attract even more fantasy holidaymakers from their respective countries and beyond

thanks to all these, opportunities given to thai entreprenuers to establish prominent joints for the huge demand for its services from both domestic and international markets.

You are totally and completely wrong. The foreign customers are a drop in the bucket for the entire prostitution market of Thailand. If you do not want to accept this just keep living with your fantasies and illusions, but the reality is, Thailand got its rep because it was already like this. Foreigners simply discovered it way after the fact, and thanks to the internet and mass media, word travelled fast the past couple decades and the rep grew.

Actually, laughingman, I think you're wrong. The reputation that Thailand has overseas has to do with how foreigners perceive Thailand as a sex destination for foreigners. That's it and that's all. That UK film crew cruising Pattaya is not going to be interested in brothels frequented by locals--they're only interested in the brothels where foreigners go. And then there are these internet sites where farangs post about their sexual escapades. And the news stories of foreign pedophiles being arrested in Thailand. So you can keep repeating that same old tired drivel about the Thais and the "entire prostitution market of Thailand." No one's interested in that. They're interested about Thailand as a sex destination for foreign sex tourists. So basically, thaifkrlim's got a point.

Actually, both of you have a point.

True, foreigners whom use the "meat marked" here, represent a very small part of it. But they are more visible.

Thailand has a very mixed reputation.

Everyone praises Thailand for the beautiy of the country and her people (Amazing Thailand).

However, Thailand also has the bad reputation (sex & drugs & rock n roll/party).

Authorities on all levels are not interested in changing this, as it will reduce the money they put in their pockets.

The Old Dogs here will remember when they thought they would change the rep here, by zoning the bars in BKK, and making sure this International Metro suddenly got the earliest closing times among all cities in the world. Creating underground night clubs.

Did they do anything with Pattaya, Phuket, Kho Samui????

Finally, I think the OP is a Troll, but some of the bait he throws at us, is worth taking.

StreetCowboy · August 24, 2010

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

So are you saying that people believe Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work because of the emails that we receive from our friends that have been there?

Or are you saying that people believe that there are hookers standing three deep on the side of Sukhumvit Road because I made that up based on stereotypes, and my friends that believed that were gullible?

SC

So SC, are you suggesting that all Thai women are hookers?

I'm speculating that the ladies lined three deep on Sukhumvit Road flashing smiles at the passers-by and saying "I go with you..." might be. I've never asked, to make sure. I'm speculating that the ladies in the coffee shop, in the office, in Robinson's etc. are not, but again, I've never asked.

Personally, I think SSS' point was complete nonsense, and inconsistent. He seemed to be implying that people overseas believe your premise because we tell them so, based on our experience, and we also believe that Alaskans live in igloos, because that is a stereotype. I don't see any linkage or correlation in those two points.

Personally, I very much doubt that Alaskans live in igloos, though I have never been there, nor do I recall any news from any of my friends on that - other than that Anchorage is rank with hookers as an oil town and transit spot for international air freight - but again, that is not say that all ladies in Alaska are hookers, only that the places that my acquaintances visit - thirsty transit air crew, in this case, tend to drink in the same places as those ladies. Anyway, Anchorage is probably not typical of towns in Alaska, and probably has more in common with Dubai than its near neighbours.