Phuket Murder Suspect Lee Aldhouse Arrested At UK Airport

[ukrules]

Your concern for the murderer is touching.

It seems to me like it's a concern for how people are treated in general, not the fact that they are punished for their heinous crimes. The EU member states will not tolerate such conditions and protects it's citzens against barbaric treatment by denying extraditions.

In my opinion the same principles apply to the US prison system as well, but that's a whole different argument.

[tropo]

The EU member states will not tolerate such conditions and protects it's citzens against barbaric treatment by denying extraditions.

In my opinion the same principles apply to the US prison system as well, but that's a whole different argument.

It basically comes down to whether you agree with the death penalty or not. You consider it barbaric while others consider it justice for heinous crimes.

IMO if you commit a crime in another country, you should be dealt the punishment normally given for such a crime in that country. A good way to illustrate this is the death penalty for drug crimes in many Asian countries. They usually warn visitors that the death penalty is the punishment for such crimes on the immigration entry cards. Should people back home, like yourself, be crying over the execution of these people. If you can't handle the punishment in foreign countries, you have no business going there in the first place.

(Do you live in Thailand? You shouldn't as you don't agree with the punishments for crimes here. You'd be a hypocrit living here while running around accusing the courts of being "barbaric". As your avatar says, "uk rules", so that the place for you.)

This is a very disturbing case indeed.

Edited August 31, 2010 by tropo

[ukrules]

The EU member states will not tolerate such conditions and protects it's citzens against barbaric treatment by denying extraditions.

In my opinion the same principles apply to the US prison system as well, but that's a whole different argument.

It basically comes down to whether you agree with the death penalty or not

Not so, it has nothing to do with the death penalty. That's irrelevant here and is always waived for extradition cases. It's down to the conditions inside the prisons, this is what will stop him from being extradited. A simple and easily promised waiver of any possible death sentence will be meaningless in this case but it will provide a good excuse for the UK to deny extradition and save face on an unwavering Thai governments side.

I live in Thailand on an occasional basis, when I feel like it. I've been keeping a place there for a few years now. I also live somewhere else and I don't agree with a lot of the laws there either - the UK. I don't break them wherever I live but I don't agree with them or the punishments handed out for a lot of crimes in a lot of places.

As for my nickname 'ukrules', what does it mean ? It can be interpreted in various casual or formal ways and is a deliberately ambiguous term which is why I chose it in the first place.

[tropo]

Not so, it has nothing to do with the death penalty. That's irrelevant here and is always waived for extradition cases. It's down to the conditions inside the prisons, this is what will stop him from being extradited.

Ok, we have a new reason. Now it's the condition of the prisons in Thailand which will prevent an extradition. He must be kept alive and as comfortable as possible.

[QED]

Birmingham

Kick boxer wanted over Thai murder is arrested

A kick boxer from Birmingham wanted over the murder of a former US marine in Thailand, has been arrested at Heathrow Airport.

Thai police had named Lee Aldhouse, 27, as the main suspect in the murder of Dashawn Longfellow, 23, who was stabbed on 14 August on the island of Phuket.

Mr Aldhouse was also wanted by UK police for breaching bail terms.

Scotland Yard said a 27-year-old man was arrested at 1655 BST on 18 August for recall to prison.

It is understood that the Thai authorities have not yet issued an extradition warrant.

Mr Aldhouse had been training as a Thai kick boxer.

Mr Longfellow was attacked in his apartment, following an earlier bar brawl.

Interesting that he was arrested on the 18th, only 4 days after the incident, but this fact was not publicised until some 9 days later.

Everyone assumed he was on the run for 2 weeks but he was actually tucked up in a UK jail.

Plenty of time for some diplomatic negotiations maybe?

[ukrules]

Ok, we have a new reason. Now it's the condition of the prisons in Thailand which will prevent an extradition. He must be kept alive and as comfortable as possible.

In a word 'yes', in more detail :

This isn't a new reason, it's 'the' reason. Ironically the original case which prompted this change in extradition law (Soering v. United Kingdom) was all about the fact that someone would have to sit on death row if sentenced to death, not the actual death penalty itself. The 'death row' experience was deemed inhumane.

Here's one notorious guy who won't be sent to the US any time soon, much to the disappointment of the US government and many people in the UK who don't want him either. They've been trying to get him for 6 years now.

Read this : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10551784

This shows the six year battle the US has had attempting to get a guy out of the UK, here's a couple of points from the article :

"The European Court of Human Rights has ordered a halt to the extradition to the US on terror charges of radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri."

"The European Court said judges wanted to see more detailed arguments on the prison conditions and the effect of the length of sentences."

Re Supermax prisons : "The other men could face a form of solitary confinement that some critics have dubbed prolonged psychological torture"

This is how it works here, the US is being questioned here and so far this extradition has been knocked back by a power higher than the UK government itself, only time will tell how this incident will play out as this is a current event.

Now lets consider these points in relation to the extradition of this Lee Aldhouse character but substitute the USA with Thailand. In what way do you think that Thailand will succeed in proving it treats it's prisoners better than the US 'supermax' prison treats it's inmates ?

This is why he won't be sent to Thailand. The government of Thailand will without a doubt already know this and so it appears does Lee Aldhouse.

So yes, article 3 from the European Convention on Human Rights is what will stop him being sent to anywhere which has conditions which aren't quite right.

[Boater]

all the international press including the bbc ect have now picked up on the story, but they are all claiming NO extradition order has been placed by thailand yet

[itsala]

Maybe I am missing something, but all reports suggest that Aldhouse was arrested in UK for "breach of bail terms". not for any offence commited in Thailand

This means that he has already been charged with an offence in the UK. In that case no extradition can be completed until that intial charge has been tried, and if a sentence is given, that must be served first before any extradition proceedings can commence.

In that case we are all waisting our time discusing any potential return in the new future...which means that by the time it comes up all the prolific posters will have something else to pontificate about and this story will be fish and chip paper.

[crazyOZ80]

Maybe I am missing something, but all reports suggest that Aldhouse was arrested in UK for "breach of bail terms". not for any offence commited in Thailand

This means that he has already been charged with an offence in the UK. In that case no extradition can be completed until that intial charge has been tried, and if a sentence is given, that must be served first before any extradition proceedings can commence.

In that case we are all waisting our time discusing any potential return in the new future...which means that by the time it comes up all the prolific posters will have something else to pontificate about and this story will be fish and chip paper.

Did you know of Lee in Phuket ?

[itsala]

Did you know of Lee in Phuket ?

I had the misfortune to meet him two or three times, but did not know him well. The breach of bail terms situation has been widely reported in the media.

[likewise]

Funny how you lot keep on speculating. Anybody who's been here for longer term knows : As I said way in the beginning - He will not get caught he is out of Thailand already.

As soon as the news came out I stated, and will say it again : He WILL NOT be extradited.

[FarangCravings]

AGREED

Even if Thailand says they wont kill him he then has a case of the conditions suffered by prisoners in the bangkok hilton and he will have a valid case against extradiution on the basis that his HUMAN RIGHT will be violated by his treatment in a thai Prison

Your concern for the murderer is touching.

Not concern just stating the facts and exactly what I would do if it were me USE THE SYSTEM and the whacked out laws we now have in UK and Europe where Human rights are concerned.

[Boater]

Murder suspect from Birmingham must wait on extradiiton

Sep 1 2010 by Mark Cowan, Birmingham Mail

A BRITISH kickboxer wanted following the fatal stabbing of a US soldier in Thailand was today waiting to heard if the authorities there would seek his extradition from the UK.

Lee Aldhouse, 27, was named by the Thai authorities as the prime suspect in the death of US Marine Dashawn Longfellow on Phuket on August 14. On Saturday, the Birmingham Mail revealed he had been detained by officers at Heathrow Airport. Police said he was held on an arrest warrant issued for his recall to prison in Britain.

It was thought Aldhouse, originally from Birmingham, was wanted for breaching bail terms following a 2005 release from jail. But it was still not clear what offence he had been serving time for in the UK beforehand

more here - http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2010/09/01/murder-suspect-from-birmingham-must-wait-on-extradiiton-97319-27175195/

[pieandmash]

I think the only place this should be tried is in the US.

IMO if you commit a crime in another country, you should be dealt the punishment normally given for such a crime in that country.

Make your mind up will you.

[NovaBlue05]

Maybe I am missing something, but all reports suggest that Aldhouse was arrested in UK for "breach of bail terms". not for any offence commited in Thailand

This means that he has already been charged with an offence in the UK. In that case no extradition can be completed until that intial charge has been tried, and if a sentence is given, that must be served first before any extradition proceedings can commence......"

That's probably how it plays out although a murder 1 charge pretty much trumps the UK charge. It gives the Thais & the UK an opportunity to sidestep issues sensitive to them and kick the can down the road a few years. By that time, no one will remember and Aldhouse will be back on the streets.

Be interesting to know if they are getting the US on board so that the story is properly spun for the media on this side.

[ramisi]

Murder suspect from Birmingham must wait on extradiiton

Sep 1 2010 by Mark Cowan, Birmingham Mail

A BRITISH kickboxer wanted following the fatal stabbing of a US soldier in Thailand was today waiting to heard if the authorities there would seek his extradition from the UK.

Lee Aldhouse, 27, was named by the Thai authorities as the prime suspect in the death of US Marine Dashawn Longfellow on Phuket on August 14. On Saturday, the Birmingham Mail revealed he had been detained by officers at Heathrow Airport. Police said he was held on an arrest warrant issued for his recall to prison in Britain.

It was thought Aldhouse, originally from Birmingham, was wanted for breaching bail terms following a 2005 release from jail. But it was still not clear what offence he had been serving time for in the UK beforehand

more here - http://www.birmingha...97319-27175195/

I have been following this story very very closely as we know Lee and Fang, she comes from same village as my lady who originaly brought her to Phuket, much to our regret, we have tried to get her away from Lee several times after each time he beat her up. She still says she loves him!! The latest is that K.., another girl here in Phuket who knows Fang, and also from same village, saw her at the old room she shared with Lee yesterday(she has cut her hair short and darkened her face so not easily recognised as the beautiful Fang of before), she had not been answering the phone, seemingly Lee is already back in Bangkok with the police and due in Chalong police station tomorrow. Knowing the Brit laws about extradition I am frankly amazed at this news and am waiting with bated breath to see what if anything happens tomorrow. I hope and pray this news is not true.

[ukrules]

seemingly Lee is already back in Bangkok with the police and due in Chalong police station tomorrow. Knowing the Brit laws about extradition I am frankly amazed at this news and am waiting with bated breath to see what if anything happens tomorrow. I hope and pray this news is not true.

I'd be very surprised if this was true, it could only happen if he finished his outstanding recall to prison, served any time that was owed and decided not to contest an extradition (which apparently hasn't been requested), even then it would take longer than this.

If this is the case then it suggests to me that some under the table deal has been done.

[powderpuff]

I have been following this story very very closely as we know Lee and Fang, she comes from same village as my lady who originaly brought her to Phuket, much to our regret, we have tried to get her away from Lee several times after each time he beat her up. She still says she loves him!! The latest is that K.., another girl here in Phuket who knows Fang, and also from same village, saw her at the old room she shared with Lee yesterday(she has cut her hair short and darkened her face so not easily recognised as the beautiful Fang of before), she had not been answering the phone, seemingly Lee is already back in Bangkok with the police and due in Chalong police station tomorrow. Knowing the Brit laws about extradition I am frankly amazed at this news and am waiting with bated breath to see what if anything happens tomorrow. I hope and pray this news is not true.

That would be sweet.

Why do all you Brits hope this piece of scum escapes justice?

Maybe next time it will be your sister.

[LaoPo]

I have been following this story very very closely as we know Lee and Fang, she comes from same village as my lady who originaly brought her to Phuket, much to our regret, we have tried to get her away from Lee several times after each time he beat her up. She still says she loves him!! The latest is that K.., another girl here in Phuket who knows Fang, and also from same village, saw her at the old room she shared with Lee yesterday(she has cut her hair short and darkened her face so not easily recognised as the beautiful Fang of before), she had not been answering the phone, seemingly Lee is already back in Bangkok with the police and due in Chalong police station tomorrow. Knowing the Brit laws about extradition I am frankly amazed at this news and am waiting with bated breath to see what if anything happens tomorrow. I hope and pray this news is not true.

Why do you hope and pray that the suspect, who allegedly murdered another man, is NOT back in Thailand to face justice?

I don't understand.

LaoPo

[Sabre]

Great reply, as usual you have nothing to say. I suggest educating yourself on the Prison systems in both the UK and Thailand there are many different arguments which could be put forward here about the positve and negatives of being locked up in the uk or thailand, it isnt just black and white eg if he is in a low security prison with day release, then off course sentence wouldn't justify the alledged crime. And next time your cant come back with anything constructive, dont be so petty with the word "troll", just because someone has a different opinion than your own!

Wow, you really put me in my place.

I can assure you I am well-informed as to conditions in both Thai and UK (altough the UK has a number of different prison systems e.g. England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland etc) gaols. I have been inside numerous prisons in a professional or quasi-professional capacity including Bang Kwang, Klong Prem and others. That being the case I can categorically state that anyone, such as yourself, suggesting that a prison sentence in the UK is somehow more arduous or difficult for a prisoner than a sentence in Thailand is either being disingenuous or is woefully ignorant. Some obvious and immediate points that can be made:

Thailand: shackles. UK: no shackles.

Thailand: serious to chronic overcrowding. UK: moderate overcrowding.

Thailand: underpaid, untrained, sometimes unaccountable prison guards who generally supplement their salaries with bribes. UK: relatively well-paid, professional prison guards who will lose their jobs and face criminal sanctions for accepting bribes.

Thailand: hot and humid. UK: cool to mild weather.

These are just the very obvious points. One could ramble on about the cultural differences, socio-economic influences and eastern/western paradigm surrounding the question but is it really necessary?

Now, I'm very interested in hearing one of the 'many different arguments' that you claim to have up your sleeve. Here I'll help you out:

"I would rather serve a prison sentence in Thailand and not the UK because ...."

Go for it!

[Sabre]

Ok, we have a new reason. Now it's the condition of the prisons in Thailand which will prevent an extradition. He must be kept alive and as comfortable as possible.

In a word 'yes', in more detail :

This isn't a new reason, it's 'the' reason. Ironically the original case which prompted this change in extradition law (Soering v. United Kingdom) was all about the fact that someone would have to sit on death row if sentenced to death, not the actual death penalty itself. The 'death row' experience was deemed inhumane.

Here's one notorious guy who won't be sent to the US any time soon, much to the disappointment of the US government and many people in the UK who don't want him either. They've been trying to get him for 6 years now.

Read this : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10551784

This shows the six year battle the US has had attempting to get a guy out of the UK, here's a couple of points from the article :

"The European Court of Human Rights has ordered a halt to the extradition to the US on terror charges of radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri."

"The European Court said judges wanted to see more detailed arguments on the prison conditions and the effect of the length of sentences."

Re Supermax prisons : "The other men could face a form of solitary confinement that some critics have dubbed prolonged psychological torture"

This is how it works here, the US is being questioned here and so far this extradition has been knocked back by a power higher than the UK government itself, only time will tell how this incident will play out as this is a current event.

Now lets consider these points in relation to the extradition of this Lee Aldhouse character but substitute the USA with Thailand. In what way do you think that Thailand will succeed in proving it treats it's prisoners better than the US 'supermax' prison treats it's inmates ?

This is why he won't be sent to Thailand. The government of Thailand will without a doubt already know this and so it appears does Lee Aldhouse.

So yes, article 3 from the European Convention on Human Rights is what will stop him being sent to anywhere which has conditions which aren't quite right.

The cases are very different. The political winds are blowing in opposite directions for a start. The USA and UK have long been at odds over the issue of extraditions, and are having some sort of tit-for-tat dispute. The EU Court is standing up to a rival and what they consider to be an international bully, the USA. They are showing their contempt for George Bush and his war on terror, basically. None of that will be a factor in the case of Thailand.

But overall I think you're right, extradition to Thailand will be a long and fruitless process. Pity.

[ukrules]

The cases are very different. The political winds are blowing in opposite directions for a start. The USA and UK have long been at odds over the issue of extraditions, and are having some sort of tit-for-tat dispute. The EU Court is standing up to a rival and what they consider to be an international bully, the USA. They are showing their contempt for George Bush and his war on terror, basically. None of that will be a factor in the case of Thailand.

But overall I think you're right, extradition to Thailand will be a long and fruitless process. Pity.

You're right here, the cases and motivations behind them are indeed very different. However 'case law' will set a precedent and future judgements regarding the conditions of prisons and the treatment of prisoners will be measured against the eventual outcome of this judgement.

[Sabre]

C'mon guys, I mean going back and forth like this is worthless.

Unless someone wants to step up and say "yes I'm a Barrister and this is what will happen" we can go on forever with "yes, extradition", "no extradition the UK is so civilized we produce maniacs like this but won't have him face the death penalty" yada yada yada, everyone has an opinion no one has any precedence or actual law training.

So I say ease up, you guys shake hands and share a round of beers.

RE for edit: haven't figured out how to solve the "you've got too many quote blocks error and make this look right.

The argument is not over extradition, but whether it is preferable to serve a prison sentence in Thailand or the UK.

And yes, I am legally trained, although it is not relevant. It doesn't take a legal genius to tell you which jurisdiction maintains better standards for prisoners.

[South]

He's f**ked up his life but as are the laws in the UK/Euroland, he should (and probably wont) be brought back here to show that justice is being done - but, because of the f**cked up Eurolaws, he has probably found the right side of the coin to land on and will avoid the Thai prison system. Right or wrong, that is the question that needs to be answered!

[Sabre]

Oh, by the way, the UK CAN extradite him to Thailand if Thailand gives an assurance that the death penalty will not be applied.

The position is the same for all EU countries.

[likewise]

Seems to me that the story is slowly disappearing in the background without an extradtion.

Wasn't Chalong police going to get him extradited in 5 days

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

seemingly Lee is already back in Bangkok with the police and due in Chalong police station tomorrow. Knowing the Brit laws about extradition I am frankly amazed at this news and am waiting with bated breath to see what if anything happens tomorrow. I hope and pray this news is not true.

I, on the other hand, hope and pray it is true.

[likewise]

I seriously doubt it is true. He's in some UK jail if you ask me.

[ukrules]

Out of interest I contacted the home office about this and they confirmed that nobody has been extradited to Thailand in 'recent years'.

Edited September 5, 2010 by ukrules

[Jimi007]

Out of interest I contacted the home office about this and they confirmed that nobody has been extradited to Thailand in 'recent years'.

How terribly civilized!