Viktor Bout Affair Needs Serious Care And Management

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Bout affair needs serious care and management

By The Nation

Thailand needs to keep its messy domestic politics out of important extradition case

Everything, it seems, can be linked to Thaksin Shinawatra. And this applies to both his rivals and supporters alike. On Friday, the world played witness to a mini-drama as the wife of Viktor Bout, the supposed "Merchant of Death" arms dealer, spoke at a press conference in an apparent attempt to distance herself from Thai domestic politics that is complicating her husband's case.

Bout's statement, read to a packed Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand by his wife Alla, denied her involvement in a meeting between him and prime ministerial aide Sirichoke Sopha on April 15. The statement also denied that she had in her possession a tape recording of that meeting, during which Sirichoke allegedly asked the world-renowned suspect to "frame" Thaksin.

The whole Sirichoke-Bout episode creates an unfortunate distraction from the real issue at hand. The Appeals Court's ruling that Bout should be extradited to the United States has placed Thailand in a most awkward situation diplomatically. The Kingdom is now torn between two superpowers. The United States, which considers Bout one of the world's biggest international arms dealers, wants to try him on its soil. Russia wants to protect its citizen, who has never been charged in his country, and has stepped up pressure on Bangkok in a bid to stop him being sent to the US.

Sirichoke's visit to Bout, whether it was appropriate or not, has been blown out of proportion. Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan advocated claims that the meeting feature an attempt by the Democrat MP to persuade Bout to frame Thaksin, and that the conversation was recorded and could be replayed to the public by the suspect's wife.

The government has tried to contain possible damage by having Sirichoke admit early that he did not try to see any link between weapons used by the red shirts and a plane allegedly forced to land here after leaving North Korea last December with tonnes of illegal arms. Since the meeting took place just five days after the April

10 bloodbath near Rajdamnoen, there may be enough justification to protect Sirichoke, who has publicly stated that talks with Bout more or less cleared his suspicion.

Bout's wife was inadvertently dragged into the Thai political game by the "secret tape" claims. Bout's statement said she had nothing to do with the meeting and did not have any tape in her possession. Misinformation flying around over the past few days, the statement said, made him worry about her safety.

While it was Sirichoke who brought the Thaksin issue to his meeting with Bout, it was Jatuporn who tried to politicise the meeting. This is not to mention that Jatuporn was also responsible for rumours that the Thai government wanted to do a Thaksin-Bout swap deal with Russia, a country that the ousted Thai leader has popped up in at least a couple of times. The result is that the already super-sensitive case has been complicated by Thai domestic politics. If the Preah Vihear controversy has given us any lesson, it's about how a diplomatic problem can be worsened if domestic politics of any country involved comes into play.

This case is different from the bilateral nature of the temple

controversy, which has cooled down a little following weeks of high tension. Thailand needs to be very focused this time because what is at stake encompasses many layers of domestic and international affairs. The integrity of the country's judiciary is also a major thing to consider.

Extradition fights often cause international conflicts and animosity. And we hope the United States and Russia have the maturity to understand the difficult position Thailand is in. However, the Thai government must not be unnecessarily distracted. More importantly it must not play politics itself. The biggest reason why is the fact that the issue is becoming a major political showdown between Washington and Moscow and it would be unwise for domestic political rivals to make things more complicated for Thailand.

-- The Nation 2010-08-29

[brahmburgers]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?" When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens? It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

[OneZero]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?" When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens? It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

Very logical post Ken. Now for the "Blame Everything on the USA" naysayers to chime in, completely ignoring all your logic.

[TallForeigner]

Another attempt of the stupid yellow modus operandi of desperately trying to find other scapegoats to blame in order to distract from the blatant stupidity of the people in power.

Jatupron did the right thing to bring the meeting between Viktor Bout and Sirichoke Sopha to the public's attention.

The first reaction was an outright lie by the PM who claimed that there was no such meeting. Later he had to admit that there was a meeting after Sirichoke himself confirmed it.

Without Jatuporn we would not know what was going on. What Jatuporn said is that there was a record of that meeting. That this "record" was an "audiorecord" or even a "tape" was put into Jatuporn's mouth by sloppy media. Some media don't realise that a "record" of something can also point to personal notes in writing.

Jatuporn did NOT lie. In fact Alla Bout confirmed that Jatuporn was speaking the truth because she was reading Viktor Bout's record of the meeting. She confirmed that Viktor Bout is not aware of a tape recording but he cannot exclude whether Sirichoke made such a recording.

Thank you Jatuporn! Without you Alla Bout would not have needed to tell the world about the staggering incompetence and stupidity of a politician who represented himself as an MP and a close aide of the PM to Viktor Bout.

Just figure: he had to ask Viktor Bout for his advice on how to bring down a private, civil and American listed airplane! He asked Viktor bout how many "KGB spies" are there in Thailand and what are they doing here...

And the madness went on when Mr Sirichoke also asked Mr Bout about the state of Thaksin's health and why other countries were uncooperative in helping to arrest and extradite the former prime minister to Thailand.

Sirichoke is looking for diplomatic training in a jail cell! Does he not understand that countries with a semblance of law and order will not extradite people over political issues? The breadth and width of this government's wanton ignorance is truly staggering.

Thanks, Jatuporn for making sure that such stupidity goes public. You are in the opposition and that's part of your job.

[Hakuchi]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?"  When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens?  It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.  

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

Very logical post Ken.  Now for the "Blame Everything on the USA" naysayers  to chime in, completely ignoring all your logic.

It is simple not American business. Bout never was in The USA before and didn't commit any crime in the USA so why he should be brought to the USA for a crime that some secret agents from the USA made up?

[Buchholz]

Thank you Jatuporn!

Thanks, Jatuporn

Yes, thank you Jatuporn. Your urban renewal plans for updating Bangkok's buildings were unprecedented:

[Hakuchi]

Not_the_Nation explains it best: http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=938

[LeoLeoKhm]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?" When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens? It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

here is the answer http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/15/victor-bout-kremlin-opinions-contributors-dmitry-sidorov.html

[yellow1red1]

for once something got dealed with quickly

the serious care and management came short hours later

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/394122-us-should-talk-to-moscow-to-discuss-the-extradition-of-viktor-bout-pm-abhisit/

[OzMick]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?" When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens? It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

Very logical post Ken. Now for the "Blame Everything on the USA" naysayers to chime in, completely ignoring all your logic.

It is simple not American business. Bout never was in The USA before and didn't commit any crime in the USA so why he should be brought to the USA for a crime that some secret agents from the USA made up?

This is the 2nd thread in which you have posted this idiocy.

Mr Bout was attempting to sell S-A missiles to a terrorist organisation in contravention of US law. He doesn't have to BE in the USA, but the law is there to protect US citizens from being murdered - that IS the business of the USA, and a sting operation is a legitimate way of preventing crime rather than waiting for it to be committed.

Many countries have laws affecting their own citizens actions abroad, and the actions of foreign citizens; actions which will affect that country.

Your view of that is irrelevant.

Edited August 29, 2010 by OzMick

[OzMick]

Another attempt of the stupid yellow modus operandi of desperately trying to find other scapegoats to blame in order to distract from the blatant stupidity of the people in power.

Jatupron did the right thing to bring the meeting between Viktor Bout and Sirichoke Sopha to the public's attention.

The first reaction was an outright lie by the PM who claimed that there was no such meeting. Later he had to admit that there was a meeting after Sirichoke himself confirmed it.

Without Jatuporn we would not know what was going on. What Jatuporn said is that there was a record of that meeting. That this "record" was an "audiorecord" or even a "tape" was put into Jatuporn's mouth by sloppy media. Some media don't realise that a "record" of something can also point to personal notes in writing.

Jatuporn did NOT lie. In fact Alla Bout confirmed that Jatuporn was speaking the truth because she was reading Viktor Bout's record of the meeting. She confirmed that Viktor Bout is not aware of a tape recording but he cannot exclude whether Sirichoke made such a recording.

Thank you Jatuporn! Without you Alla Bout would not have needed to tell the world about the staggering incompetence and stupidity of a politician who represented himself as an MP and a close aide of the PM to Viktor Bout.

Just figure: he had to ask Viktor Bout for his advice on how to bring down a private, civil and American listed airplane! He asked Viktor bout how many "KGB spies" are there in Thailand and what are they doing here...

And the madness went on when Mr Sirichoke also asked Mr Bout about the state of Thaksin's health and why other countries were uncooperative in helping to arrest and extradite the former prime minister to Thailand.

Sirichoke is looking for diplomatic training in a jail cell! Does he not understand that countries with a semblance of law and order will not extradite people over political issues? The breadth and width of this government's wanton ignorance is truly staggering.

Thanks, Jatuporn for making sure that such stupidity goes public. You are in the opposition and that's part of your job.

You pointed out that "bring down" as translated from the Russian can also mean "shoot down". From the context, it was obvious that this was not the intended meaning, and from the way it was pointed out, not the usual meaning. Why then keep bringing up this mis-translation?

[Hakuchi]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

More important is asking "Why is Russia so adamant about keeping Bout from going to the US to face charges?"  When has Russia offialdom cared so much for one of its prominent citizens?  It didn't give a hoot for some of its richest entrepreneurs, recently, when it slammed them in prison.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.  

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

Very logical post Ken.  Now for the "Blame Everything on the USA" naysayers  to chime in, completely ignoring all your logic.

It is simple not American business. Bout never was in The USA before and didn't commit any crime in the USA so why he should be brought to the USA for a crime that some secret agents from the USA made up?

This is the 2nd thread in which you have posted this idiocy.

Mr Bout was attempting to sell S-A missiles to a terrorist organisation in contravention of US law. He doesn't have to BE in the USA, but the law is there to protect US citizens from being murdered - that IS the business of the USA, and a sting operation is a legitimate way of preventing crime rather than waiting for it to be committed.

Many countries have laws affecting their own citizens actions abroad, and the actions of foreign citizens actions which will affect that country.

Your view of that is irrelevant.

FYI: Citizen of other nations also have their rights and their countries have their own laws. So it comes that Russia is against Bouts extradition to the USA. Simple a fact and not some big conspiracy theory behind it about the evil "Ruskies"  government or some Russian mafia.

[hammered]

Another attempt of the stupid yellow modus operandi of desperately trying to find other scapegoats to blame in order to distract from the blatant stupidity of the people in power.

Jatupron did the right thing to bring the meeting between Viktor Bout and Sirichoke Sopha to the public's attention.

The first reaction was an outright lie by the PM who claimed that there was no such meeting. Later he had to admit that there was a meeting after Sirichoke himself confirmed it.

Without Jatuporn we would not know what was going on. What Jatuporn said is that there was a record of that meeting. That this "record" was an "audiorecord" or even a "tape" was put into Jatuporn's mouth by sloppy media. Some media don't realise that a "record" of something can also point to personal notes in writing.

Jatuporn did NOT lie. In fact Alla Bout confirmed that Jatuporn was speaking the truth because she was reading Viktor Bout's record of the meeting. She confirmed that Viktor Bout is not aware of a tape recording but he cannot exclude whether Sirichoke made such a recording.

Thank you Jatuporn! Without you Alla Bout would not have needed to tell the world about the staggering incompetence and stupidity of a politician who represented himself as an MP and a close aide of the PM to Viktor Bout.

Just figure: he had to ask Viktor Bout for his advice on how to bring down a private, civil and American listed airplane! He asked Viktor bout how many "KGB spies" are there in Thailand and what are they doing here...

And the madness went on when Mr Sirichoke also asked Mr Bout about the state of Thaksin's health and why other countries were uncooperative in helping to arrest and extradite the former prime minister to Thailand.

Sirichoke is looking for diplomatic training in a jail cell! Does he not understand that countries with a semblance of law and order will not extradite people over political issues? The breadth and width of this government's wanton ignorance is truly staggering.

Thanks, Jatuporn for making sure that such stupidity goes public. You are in the opposition and that's part of your job.

Asd he is such an upstanding seeker of the truth maybe Jatuporn will now then also fess up to his role in the red planned arson, violence and murder as well as some other issues in Jatuporns little history. Then maybe such an obsequious post will be more justified. As it stands at present Jatuporn is just playing political games as is everyuone else in th sordid affair and nobody comes out looking good.

By the way, we dont know what was actually spoken between Bout and the MP. We only have a he said she said thing. Stating such as fact is a bit of a stretch. Still I guess people wont notice.

[asiawatcher]

... it appears that it's just one person; Jatuporn, who's throwing crap at the fan. Jatuporn has as much credability as his guru, Mr. ex-caretaker PM Thaksin. In other words: zero.

There's one glaring reason (or perhaps 1,000) why Russia is desperate to keep Bout from going to the US, and here it is; unraveling Bout's business dealings will likely expose one or more VIP Russians as being part of the arms dealings.

What other reason would make Russian heavies so afraid of a world class arms dealer going to face justice in the US?

Could not agree more - but would love to see Thaksin tagged on this! Then his arrest for terrorism could be handled by Interpol.

[chantorn]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

[Hakuchi]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout  mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing  crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

yes.

[OzMick]

Very logical post Ken. Now for the "Blame Everything on the USA" naysayers to chime in, completely ignoring all your logic.

It is simple not American business. Bout never was in The USA before and didn't commit any crime in the USA so why he should be brought to the USA for a crime that some secret agents from the USA made up?

This is the 2nd thread in which you have posted this idiocy.

Mr Bout was attempting to sell S-A missiles to a terrorist organisation in contravention of US law. He doesn't have to BE in the USA, but the law is there to protect US citizens from being murdered - that IS the business of the USA, and a sting operation is a legitimate way of preventing crime rather than waiting for it to be committed.

Many countries have laws affecting their own citizens actions abroad, and the actions of foreign citizens actions which will affect that country.

Your view of that is irrelevant.

FYI: Citizen of other nations also have their rights and their countries have their own laws. So it comes that Russia is against Bouts extradition to the USA. Simple a fact and not some big conspiracy theory behind it about the evil "Ruskies" government or some Russian mafia.

I am well aware that other nations have their own laws; so what? Is it against Russian law for Russians who break other countries laws to be arrested?Quite possibly they wouldn't extradite a citizen, but Mr Bout wasn't in Russia at the time. I never mentioned conspiracy,only that he has broken the laws of another nation while in a country with an extradition treaty with that nation.

Myself and the rest of the world couldn't give a rat's anus for what you and Russia likes or dislikes. Please learn to live with that and stop your puerile whining.

[rubl]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

First paragraph of reply #1 copied and Jutuporn/Thaksin replaced by Sirichoke/Mark. You should have changed more, started with 'without bothering to be original' Wonder which fool voted this post up.

[rubl]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

You're provoking people on purpose by posting inconsistent replies.

In the topic "Victor Bout: No recording of meeting with Thai MP Sirichoke" reply #95 you said

What wrong with this kind gentleman (Sirichpoke), on a public holiday, have nothing else to do, in the capacity of a NORMAL CARING THAI CITIZEN, visit a lonely foreign prisoner to chit chat and keep him accompanied for a few minutes.

I don't see anything wrong at all. In fact, we all should do that from time to time, just like we "TAM BOON" at the temple.

[Buchholz]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

First paragraph of reply #1 copied and Jutuporn/Thaksin replaced by Sirichoke/Mark. You should have changed more, started with 'without bothering to be original' Wonder which fool voted this post up.

You can check that here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/user/98578-chantorn/

and then clicking on Reputation reveals:

Hakuchi Yesterday, 22:59 Viktor Bout Affair Needs Serious Care And Management

[Hakuchi]

It is simple not American business. Bout never was in The USA before and didn't commit any crime in the USA so why he should be brought to the USA for a crime that some secret agents from the USA made up?

This is the 2nd thread in which you have posted this idiocy.

Mr Bout was attempting to sell S-A missiles to a terrorist organisation in contravention of US law. He doesn't have to BE in the USA, but the law is there to protect US citizens from being murdered - that IS the business of the USA, and a sting operation is a legitimate way of preventing crime rather than waiting for it to be committed.

Many countries have laws affecting their own citizens actions abroad, and the actions of foreign citizens actions which will affect that country.

Your view of that is irrelevant.

FYI: Citizen of other nations also have their rights and their countries have their own laws. So it comes that Russia is against Bouts extradition to the USA. Simple a fact and not some big conspiracy theory behind it about the evil "Ruskies"  government or some Russian mafia.

I am well aware that other nations have their own laws; so what? Is it against Russian law for Russians who break other countries laws to be arrested?Quite possibly they wouldn't extradite a citizen, but Mr Bout wasn't in Russia at the time. I never mentioned conspiracy,only that he has broken the laws of another nation while in a country with an extradition treaty with that nation.

Myself and the rest of the world couldn't give a rat's anus for what you and Russia likes or dislikes. Please learn to live with that and stop your puerile whining.

If nobody and yourself give a "rat's anus" than why you stalking me?

[rubl]

Without spending hours reading all the dross circling around the Bout mess, it appears that it's just one person; Sirichoke, who's throwing crap at the fan. Sirichoke has as much credibility as his guru, Mr. PM Mark. In other words: zero.

First paragraph of reply #1 copied and Jutuporn/Thaksin replaced by Sirichoke/Mark. You should have changed more, started with 'without bothering to be original' Wonder which fool voted this post up.

You can check that here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/user/98578-chantorn/

and then clicking on Reputation reveals:

Hakuchi Yesterday, 22:59 Viktor Bout Affair Needs Serious Care And Management

Why am I not surprised