Corporal Punishment In Thai Schools

[Thaiboxer]

Corporal punishment in Thai schools is still alive and well, although (especially in BKK) schools are starting to swing away from this system. I have been teaching at both government and private schools in Bangkok for over two years and I have never heard of or seen any student receive this kind of punishment for lack of academic ability. However, considering how kids these days behave, they DO need a good smack for discipline problems. A bamboo cane across the butt usually works, particularly if it's done in front of the other students. Many of the most successful Thais I've met have all come from schools that caned bad kids and they're probably thankful for it. I once worked in a school where the kids controlled the place, not the staff. One thing is for certain....if the kid comes from a family where the parents (not the teachers) take responsibility for insuring that their child is well-behaved, there won't be any need for corporal punishment and the teacher can get on with what's most important: the lessons. Part of the problem which causes a lack of learning ability is how the schools are set up; throwing a bunch of government school kids into a bilingual environment without the proper level of English is not going to make them learn easily.

[Netfan]

I can tell you what I did- my daughter attends a Catholic run school where they do use corporal punishment. However, I wrote a letter to the head sister telling her if there were any problems they were to contact me- not to take any action themselves and i would deal with it (not by hitting or pinching- talking seems to work pretty well). I dont want some sadist getting their kicks from hitting my daughter. Why do I say this? I worked for 3 weeks at a Thai government school. One day I saw several girls (12-13 years old) lined up in front of a male teacher. One by one they walked up and bent over his lap. He had a big smile on his face as he gave them each 2 or 3 whacks with a ruler. That was my last day at that school.

[thaibebop]

I can tell you what I did- my daughter attends a Catholic run school where they do use corporal punishment. However, I wrote a letter to the head sister telling her if there were any problems they were to contact me- not to take any action themselves and i would deal with it (not by hitting or pinching- talking seems to work pretty well). I dont want some sadist getting their kicks from hitting my daughter. Why do I say this? I worked for 3 weeks at a Thai government school. One day I saw several girls (12-13 years old) lined up in front of a male teacher. One by one they walked up and bent over his lap. He had a big smile on his face as he gave them each 2 or 3 whacks with a ruler. That was my last day at that school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That &^&% sounds like a real perv. What the $#% did the girls do? Look at him funny?

Couldn't you say something about that behavior? I am thinking of teaching in Thailand, so , what should I do when I see something go over the line?

[siamesekitty]

One day I saw several girls (12-13 years old) lined up in front of a male teacher. One by one they walked up and bent over his lap. He had a big smile on his face as he gave them each 2 or 3 whacks with a ruler.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The stuff pervy erotic stories are made of... (not that I would know anything about such things.. )

[Jockstar]

At our school. Some of the Thais still hit kids. Though i make my opinions known if i see it. No need to beat kids IMO. Send them out the class. They dont like that. But its generally frowned upon by other teachers when kids are hit. Its usually the older(read dinosaur) teachers who do it.

[thaibebop]

At our school. Some of the Thais still hit kids. Though i make my opinions known if i see it. No need to beat kids IMO. Send them out the class. They dont like that.  But its generally frowned upon by other teachers when kids are hit. Its usually the older(read dinosaur) teachers who do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you teach Jockstar? Is teaching a good job in Thailand for you?

[cobra]

Joe, your kid is lucky, my kids get the stick,  but they dont act up anymore at home either.

regards

nam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with strictness and discipline in schools, but teachers pinching and smacking kids is abhorrent. Teaching by fear can't be right??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to disagree, every military boot camp in the world employs negative reinforcement, because it's fast and it works.

I remember as a child, my 5th grade math teacher, bad enough your under-achieving, but to show up in class without doing your assigned homework .... major public ass-whipping with a paddle with holes in it, ... very few did not do their homework, very few did not pass his class.

By the way, I'm a power plant operator and the math and science I never said I'd need, came in very handy.

Spare the rod, spoil the child, china still canes, and it works.

[Rumpole]

It does seem to be designed to turn out mindlessly obedient kids who respect all elders and don't criticize. This is why so many middle-class Thais sacrifice a lot to send their kids to an international school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the Thai political/industrial/military elite, who condone and perpetuate the atrocious standards of education in the country, send their own kids to be educated overseas.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Rumpole

[Rumpole]

Spare the rod, spoil the child,   china still canes, and it works. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true. Corporal punishment is also illegal in Chinese schools, although like Thailand, it may still be practised by a few individual teachers. Most Chinese parents would be outraged if a teacher laid hands on their "little emperor or empress" - though they may beat the crap out of him or her themselves for scoring "only" 80% on a test.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Rumpole

[Jockstar]

At our school. Some of the Thais still hit kids. Though i make my opinions known if i see it. No need to beat kids IMO. Send them out the class. They dont like that.  But its generally frowned upon by other teachers when kids are hit. Its usually the older(read dinosaur) teachers who do it.

What do you teach Jockstar? Is teaching a good job in Thailand for you?

I teach English, science and maths. P1,2 and 3. I also run 3 football teams. P1-P3, P4-P6 and M1-M4. Yes i enjoy it.

[Thaiboxer]

The age of the kids has a lot to do with their behavior and therefore the need (sometimes) for corporal punishment. Stuff like pinching, punching, body slamming and stomping are too extreme...not that it hasn't crossed most teachers' minds at some point Seriously, if you want to teach kids I'd say go for the younger ones....Kindergarten though about Grade 4. They're often more polite and open-minded than their teenage counterparts which can make teaching them A LOT less stressful. My first job was teaching high school kids and they were a nightmare...especially the 8th graders. I've taught Kindergarten 3 (5 year olds) and most of them were easy to teach. The little guys are exhausting but they can be lots of fun too. Now I'm teaching elementary aged kids and many of them are very eager to use English...always a plus. If you decide to teach here, I wish you good luck!

[meom]

Have to disagree,  every military boot camp in the world employs negative reinforcement, because it's fast and it works.

At least in boot camp you can hit back, that's the difference.

[strawberry]

Hi All,

I've read all your replies and appreciated them all.

although I'm not a teacher I've been offer many jobs but I consider teaching to be an art and I'm certainly no artist. I did spend some time last year at my daughters school helping pronunciation. Then for some reason they stopped asking me, possibly because I told the kids I thought farmers were the most important people in Thailand.

I've thought of asking Thai Boxer to come and punch the lady teachers face in, At 70 yo I'm a bit beyond punching people.

Here is what I have done and am doing.

The school bus driver lives near me and over the years we have become fairly friendly, I showed him the bruising and asked him to mention to the teacher that if it happened again I would go to the government in Pichit town and make a complaint and I'm hoping this will make a difference. The bus drivers wife was or at least seemed to be appalled and I'm sure the word will get around and she will be shamed. My wifes family seem to think that it was my daughters fault because they say she does not pay attention, and that we will go to the school to talk with them there.

The other thing I'm doing is studying with my daughter and helping with some of the home work. I can read Thai although not necessarily understand it but know enough to know when she says a word wrong.

Today we did the Jack in the beanstock story you know the one with the chook who laid the golden eggs. (the Thai Version). We got to page 8 turned to page 9 and all of a sudden she almost can't read, I forget and what is that. I started to think that what is happening is Attention Deficency Syndrome.

The other option, suggested by my family is that we send her to another school possibly in Pitsunolok where she will live in and come home at weekends which I'm opposed to but if that is what she needs I will have to do it.

I'm now off to check the internet for Attention Deficiency Syndrome.

many thanks for all the feed back you have all been very helpful.

Joe

[350torana]

If it was my daughter I would be at the school in a flash and tear strips off the teacher . Sure, this is Thailand...but my wife says she would do the same thing.Stuff losing face she deserves it. Corporal punishment only installs fear in kids and teaches them voilence is a good way to resolve a situation. Much better to sit a kid down and talk to them one on one .

The other day we took our daughter swimming at the local pool. There was a swiming teacher giving lessons. One kid was swimming slowly , the coach whipped him across the back with his whistle. Of course, I kept my mouth shut but his parents saw it and did nothing .

[TizMe]

The other option, suggested by my family is that we send her to another school possibly in Pitsunolok where she will live in and come home at weekends

Then they can abuse her on Monday and as long as the scars are gone by Friday you wont know any difference. Also you will no longer be able to help her during the week.

[uncle paul]

Hi All,

I've read all your replies and appreciated them all.

although I'm not a teacher I've been offer many jobs but I consider teaching to be an art and I'm certainly no artist. I did spend some time last year at my daughters school helping pronunciation. Then for some reason they stopped asking me, possibly because I told the kids I thought farmers were the most important people in Thailand.

I've thought of asking Thai Boxer to come and punch the lady teachers face in, At 70 yo I'm a bit beyond punching people.

Here is what I have done and am doing.

The school bus driver lives near me and over the years we have become fairly friendly, I showed him the bruising and asked him to mention to the teacher that if it happened again I would go to the government in Pichit town and make a complaint and I'm hoping this will make a difference. The bus drivers wife was or at least seemed to be appalled and I'm sure the word will get around and she will be shamed. My wifes family seem to think that it was my daughters fault because they say she does not pay attention, and that we will go to the school to talk with them there.

The other thing I'm doing is studying with my daughter and helping with some of the home work. I can read Thai although not necessarily understand it but know enough to know when she says a word wrong.

Today we did the Jack in the beanstock story you know the one with the chook who laid the golden eggs. (the Thai Version). We got to page 8 turned to page 9 and all of a sudden she almost can't read, I forget and what is that. I started to think that what is happening is Attention Deficency Syndrome.

The other option, suggested by my family is that we send her to another school possibly in Pitsunolok where she will live in and come home at weekends which I'm opposed to but if that is what she needs I will have to do it.

I'm now off to check the internet for Attention Deficiency Syndrome.

many thanks for all the feed back you have all been very helpful.

Joe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the only problem i can see here is that you have involved someone of little or no social status and therfore given those concerned ample reason for completely ignoring your wishes.

[Nickerelastic]

strawberry;

Today we did the Jack in the beanstock story you know the one with the chook who laid the golden eggs. (the Thai Version). We got to page 8 turned to page 9 and all of a sudden she almost can't read,

Some children are able to mask their disability for years. By using their fantastic memory skills whereby they remember all the text in a book.

[Boatabike]

I remember getting caned and slippered at school; I learned a lesson from it and got huge street cred. With the other kids for it too. Having said that pinching, slapping are a no no in my book, I was caned for what they believed was a good reason, I was in fact innocent and didn't deserve it but they believed me guilty so no hard feelings.

I often see a teacher at my school giving out beatings with a cane, only boys so far, and their friends all hang around to see how they take it, then they all walk off laughing and telling him what a man he is. I personally will not take part in any form of hitting of the kids.

If you have a class of 50 students you do however have to have control, but beatings are not needed and actually don't seem to achieve much beyond making the teacher feel good, and the kid getting praise from his peers. Hitting a kid for having learning probs is about a stupid a reason as I can think of. If punishment is dealt out it should only be for a reason worthy of it, and then only if it is legal, acceptable, or deemed the only way to amend the situation. I caught a boy hitting a girl a few days ago, and I mean angry I want to smash your face in type hitting, lucky I was there at the right time as he got one blow in before I grabbed him. After giving him a ###### good talking to shaming him I made him sit opposite her facing her for the next lesson, having to look her in the eye knowing he had lost his cool was enough to keep him squirming in his seat the whole lesson, and I believe he realised he was very wrong to have got so angry over nothing. There are many ways to teach a child, beatings are not one of them.

[Ijustwannateach]

The closest I've ever gotten to corporal punishment with the worst-behaved kids (almost always the boys, who almost always seem to know they've been bad) is to stand them in the corner or force them to hold a sheet of paper on the wall with their noses. The attention they get from the class for this is usually the kind they don't want, and it works.

If you notice that a child just doesn't seem to be able to sit still, much less pay attention, despite his best efforts- he may have a genuine problem, ADD or otherwise. You can let the parents know but a lot of times they're too poor to get any professional attention. One good trick I learned to help this kind of child is to let them hold some kind of soft object (a tennis ball for example) to focus their excess energy- of course, you have to make it clear that they're not to bounce or throw the ball or use it to make noise- they can roll it on the desk or hold it or squeeze it. If the ball becomes a discipline problem then the deal's off and you're back to traditional discipline. It's surprising how well this can work.

"Steven"

[thaibebop]

Boatabike & Ijustwannateach I agrree with you complete. My father liked to beat me for bad grades. The beatings only fueled my desire to get back at him, and the only why I could get back at him was to get bad grades. It became an ugly game of wills between the two of us, until he finally cracked one day and kicked the crap out of me. I got pics taken of what he did so I could make him stay away for me and didn't talk to him for 6yrs. Once violence is done it can rapidly become the only thing that can be done, it just gets worse and no one learns.

[DisainaM]

not to mentioned the law culture in Singapore,

where also a farang kid got the punishment.

Edited July 19, 2005 by DisainaM

[astral]

At a school I once worked at, a Thai teacher informed me that corporal punishment was definitely illegal; but after that law was passed the PTA at the school unanimously requested that the school CONTINUE to use it because they were afraid the kids would go out of control.  Perhaps this is overtly or tacitly the situation at your school; you might find that Thai parents do not see the situation the same way- anyway, you should probably check it out.  Do you go to PTA meetings for your school?  If so, then you might be able to address the situation without anyone losing face by informing (all) your daughter's teachers that you do *not* want corporal punishment for her like the other parents, and work out some alternative disciplinary arrangements with which you agree.

I consider the law making corporal punishment illegal a good thing; however, they didn't replace it with anything- they don't have detention, in-school or out-of-school suspension, or any of those other things here.  Expulsions are rare, too.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also believe it is illegal, unless you have given permission.

My 14 year old son came home last year, with a letter asking me if I gave permission for corporate punishment. I signed to say yes.

However I would draw the line at blows/pinching of the stomach.

I agree with the poster who suggested the medical exam and report,

then your wife can report the assault to the police, if she does not get any joy from the school.

[strawberry]

Its a bit difficult to go to the school and front the teacher as my Thai is not good. My wife is still claiming my daughter is in the wrong and the teacher was just trying to help her. We have had a series of rows over the past 5 days over this and quite frankly I'm coming to the conclusion that she isn't a wife she is a flaming night mare and I'm hoping I'll wake up and she will be gone.

I understand the Thai education system is one of the worst in the east and I can readily see why. In one of the posts someone mentioned the PTA I haven't seen anything about PTA here in Thailand in fact I don't think parents are encouraged to have much to do with the teachers.

I'd be happy to take her away from here and enter into an international school but I work it out it would be cheaoer for me to take her back to Australia to life and enter her in there than to try and pay for an international school. There are problems in me trying to do that.

joe

[lopburi3]

Have just told wife your story and she is using extremely very un-Thai language and very upset. Her advise is confront manager of school and then police if immediate action is not taken. Take her out of that school and go elsewhere if you are no satisfied. This kind of punishment is no longer allowed and should not be tolerated by anyone.

[uncle paul]

strawberry have a look here for international schools

click on international for younger children

Edited July 19, 2005 by uncle paul

[Tyree D.]

First off I don't know how justified or not your situation was but I am all for capital punishment. I grew up around it the in Black community in Los Angeles. They did it until "political correctness" came around. My school I teach allows me to use the stick and put kids in the full nelson when they say bad words like "###### you" and "masturbation". It is the only way they stop. They now respect Ajarn Farang and now I can go back to teaching.

Once again to the original poster, I don't know if what happened to you is justifiable but I support the way these teachers handle these kids.

Edited July 19, 2005 by Tyree D.

[lopburi3]

Not all schools are equal here and you do not have to pay for the name international to find better education than presently seems to be the case. Believe you posted about a boarding school and understand you have just built a home so if there is no alternative within commuting distance perhaps you could rent (which is really cheap) close to such a school and return to house on weekends and vacation? Believe this might be better than moving back to OZ at your age (unless you are ok with it and wife in agreement).

[thaibebop]

not to mentioned the law culture in Singapore,

where also a farang kid got the punishment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are talking about the yank with the sparypaint, he got what he deserved.

[thaibebop]

Strawberry-"she is a flaming nightmare"

We don't like to admit it but men are masochists, that's why we marry.

Edited July 19, 2005 by thaibebop

[udon]

I've had the real pleasure of meeting Joe and his beautiful daughter.

I'm outraged that this could happen to such a bright child.

Can't add to the advice given so far, but I sure am angry.