Business Failure Rate In Los

[wolf5370]

my situation is unique, as the restaurant sits in a small building outside of a relatively busy bar. I only have one staff, the chef. It does takeaways and also the menus sit on the bar so patrons can order and eat at the bar. rent only 2k, salary 10k, electric 2k. I also put the restaurant 100% in a thais name, he is one of the staff at my other business. The lease is in my name. This way there is no BS with the government, no paperwork etc. I invested a total of 150k to build the building and equipment, an amount easy to walk away from. Business was profitable from day 1.

i believe sir.

can you give me address.

i want to watch how one person cooks, gets drinks, clears table, cashiers, takes orders................and the operation makes money to boot! when most places all i see is too much darn staff.

1. My restaurant, doesn't serve drinks, The bar does.

2. If a customer wishes to dine-in, again they sit inside the bar and hence the bar staff takes and retrieves orders and clears tables at no cost to me.

3. Takeaways can be retrieved directly at the kitchen counter.

4. Cook handles being the "cashier" as the food checks and bar checks are different and again the bar staff will present the checks to the customers and bring the money to the chef for change.

As I said its a win win for everyone, bar gets customers they otherwise wouldn't have and keeps existing customers in their seats. I get access to their existing customer base.

I have a friend, a farang restaurant owner, that is just setting up the same sort of thing. He is slightly different in that he is only hiring a server rather than a chef - the food being deleivered from the restaurant and heated on site (microwave?) - the type of food he does makes this posible. He is situated (or is about to be) in a supermarket foodhall (not in the kiosks but a stand alone unit) next to the beer 'garden'. His rent is quite high, but otherwise the layout is small (equipment - except perhaps a microwave or heated counter) is all at the restaurant already. The restaurant opens evenings only, so can be used as a factory during the day for no extra rent costs (as he lives there too - even the electriity makes little difference). The waiting lists for these kiosks is very long - its hard to see how Thais make money in those as they have incredibly high rents (I have hard 60k a month) and compete with a dozen other kiosks selling pretty much the same fare for 30 baht at a time! Yet, they seem not to change hands very often, so there must be something to it (???)

[mrdeedee]

my situation is unique, as the restaurant sits in a small building outside of a relatively busy bar. I only have one staff, the chef. It does takeaways and also the menus sit on the bar so patrons can order and eat at the bar. rent only 2k, salary 10k, electric 2k. I also put the restaurant 100% in a thais name, he is one of the staff at my other business. The lease is in my name. This way there is no BS with the government, no paperwork etc. I invested a total of 150k to build the building and equipment, an amount easy to walk away from. Business was profitable from day 1.

i believe sir.

can you give me address.

i want to watch how one person cooks, gets drinks, clears table, cashiers, takes orders................and the operation makes money to boot! when most places all i see is too much darn staff.

1. My restaurant, doesn't serve drinks, The bar does.

2. If a customer wishes to dine-in, again they sit inside the bar and hence the bar staff takes and retrieves orders and clears tables at no cost to me.

3. Takeaways can be retrieved directly at the kitchen counter.

4. Cook handles being the "cashier" as the food checks and bar checks are different and again the bar staff will present the checks to the customers and bring the money to the chef for change.

As I said its a win win for everyone, bar gets customers they otherwise wouldn't have and keeps existing customers in their seats. I get access to their existing customer base.

I have a friend, a farang restaurant owner, that is just setting up the same sort of thing. He is slightly different in that he is only hiring a server rather than a chef - the food being deleivered from the restaurant and heated on site (microwave?) - the type of food he does makes this posible. He is situated (or is about to be) in a supermarket foodhall (not in the kiosks but a stand alone unit) next to the beer 'garden'. His rent is quite high, but otherwise the layout is small (equipment - except perhaps a microwave or heated counter) is all at the restaurant already. The restaurant opens evenings only, so can be used as a factory during the day for no extra rent costs (as he lives there too - even the electriity makes little difference). The waiting lists for these kiosks is very long - its hard to see how Thais make money in those as they have incredibly high rents (I have hard 60k a month) and compete with a dozen other kiosks selling pretty much the same fare for 30 baht at a time! Yet, they seem not to change hands very often, so there must be something to it (???)

makes no sense.

does guy live in the kiosk or in the restaurant? how does guy benefit by restaurant operating as factory during day? what kind of factory is it:lol: :lol: ?

the only thing that makes sense is they change owners often , maybe coz you cant make money selling 30 baht items with a dozen others doing the same thing

[wolf5370]

I have a friend, a farang restaurant owner, that is just setting up the same sort of thing. He is slightly different in that he is only hiring a server rather than a chef - the food being deleivered from the restaurant and heated on site (microwave?) - the type of food he does makes this posible. He is situated (or is about to be) in a supermarket foodhall (not in the kiosks but a stand alone unit) next to the beer 'garden'. His rent is quite high, but otherwise the layout is small (equipment - except perhaps a microwave or heated counter) is all at the restaurant already. The restaurant opens evenings only, so can be used as a factory during the day for no extra rent costs (as he lives there too - even the electriity makes little difference). The waiting lists for these kiosks is very long - its hard to see how Thais make money in those as they have incredibly high rents (I have hard 60k a month) and compete with a dozen other kiosks selling pretty much the same fare for 30 baht at a time! Yet, they seem not to change hands very often, so there must be something to it (???)

makes no sense.

does guy live in the kiosk or in the restaurant? how does guy benefit by restaurant operating as factory during day? what kind of factory is it:lol: :lol: ?

the only thing that makes sense is they change owners often , maybe coz you cant make money selling 30 baht items with a dozen others doing the same thing

If I thought you were serious I would answer it - but as your questions ask to explain the exact opposite of what I stated (yet again proof that you either do not read the posts or simply do not understand) I won't bother. Isn't it past your bed time yet? Surely by now you must be bored with showing your level of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Edited September 9, 2010 by Rooo
Flame removed. Rooo.

[Rooo]

Some people are taking great pleasure in taunting & going off topic. Some posts have been deleted. This is my last warning to these people, they know who they are. Next one suspension.

I strongly suggest reading FORUM RULES.

[zerod1]

It appears that someone is being closely studied, well done Rooo, i'm slowly starting to get my confidence back in the forum

[chiangmaihigh]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

Agree with mrdeedee, just doesn't sound right. Especially when I look at some of your previous posts, wolfie. In your old posts, your wife is here / not here. and your MIL is running the business / not running the business. Bt15,000 is hardly even going to cover a farang living and renting in CM. So, either you are seriously loaded, or there is more than a hint of BS being put out on the internet.

God what's with you people with trying to make out everyone as a liar. If you DID read my post you will see: My wife doesn't work at the cafe (as it happens she is currently back in the UK on her own working a contract - she left about 4 weeks ago - she does this regulalry as its her job to and she earns far more doing this than working in the cafe!); The MIL (as stated) was here UNTIL recently when she went back to Bangkok and left my sister in law to work the cafe for her; I said at least 3 times above I DO NOT LIVE ON THIS MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the 30k give or take is split between my Mrs (OK her bank account if you really think someone has to physically go and collect notes) and my SIL - My wife earns and I earn at our own jobs and the cafe was, is and always will be nothing but a bonus at best for us (ALSO as stated above); To be honest, I could probably live on 15k here if I didn't have the kids here (school fees etc), but that's another story and of no relevence; No idea how living on 15k would make me seriously loaded - comment just doesn't track.

There is no need for me to BS - what would be the point? What I am saying is true, I couldn't give a rats arse if you believe it or not (other than the fact you are openly denouncing me as a liar based on your missreading, poor logic and guesswork) - its not important. I only brought it up (as I stated several times)to show an earlier poster that such places can and do earn more than just basic subsistance earnings (and for a Tai 30k is far from subsistance!)

So please, before accusing anyone of being a liar and making a complete arse of yourself, at least have the decency to read the bloody posts.

Sorry wolfie, didn't mean to offend. Sincere apologies.

Getting back on topic, maybe the real reason for so many business failures in Thailand is "attachment orders", which would be highly detrimental to any business or the people behind it, either in the UK or Thailand.

Good to see that you have made a direct appeal to the Prime Minister himself on this matter. Personally, I don't understand too much about such things, but you obviously are an expert.

[geriatrickid]

Wolf,

Do not allow yourself to become annoyed by some of the comments. The way I have read this thread is that you did your planning, you worked within a budget, you had rational expectations and you set reasonable goals, Therefore, you have been successful in your enterprise. What's there to argue about? You achieved what you wanted to achieve in terms of having a profitable investment that created a functioning business, created jobs for a family, gave income to your wife and didn't exploit anyone or rip people off in the process.

I dunno, but in MBA school, they taught us that activity like yours were good business practices. I presently work for a large profitable international enterprise. I am expected to implement and follow similar practices as you, albeit on a different scale. If I can meet my milestones, deliver on budget numbers and can contribute to society then I will have been considered to have done my job well. Know what? You are a success and you don't have to explain it to anyone. If people can't figure it out, too bad. You are the one making the money, not them, right?

[chiangmaibruce]

To the OP. I'm sure if you're actually seeking hard statistics or just interested in discussing the issue in general terms. There are some statistics are available here:

http://www.dbd.go.th/mainsite/index.php?id=46&L=1

I don't think it gives anything like the complete picture (e.g. only include registered companies) but perhaps someone might be interested in drilling down into this stuff.

[Richb2004v2]

I noticed yesterday that the fish foot spa at the local Tesco has shut down. I think it lasted a little over six months. I used it once for the novelty but never saw another customers in it. How could I see that it was never going to last but the owner couldn't?

[Heng]

Wishing and hoping... like a lot of 'business plans.'

[Richb2004v2]

Wishing and hoping... like a lot of 'business plans.'

Your probably right. But they must surely have lost money on it. Buying the hardware, renting the premesis and paying the staff all those months, with little income. It seems to be the case with so many of these ventures that fold. I often wonder if there aren't many Thais with so much money that they don't know what to do with it. The same goes for all the blocks of shop houses that get build amongst the already empty shop houses and never get occupied. I guess there must be some sense in it somehow.

[jaideeguy]

Are we finished going off topic and insulting each other/??

As the OP, I would like to say 'what a bunch of jerks came out of the woodwork'.......a simple observation/question leads to insults and stupidity. why can't we have a decent civilized discussion on thaivisa any more?? Lots of bored, pittiful, know it all retirees stuck at home with only a keyboard as a weapon.

Back on topic.....

I wanted to add this from my wife, who comes from a long line of food vendors....she says [rule of thumb] for a food business in LOS it is common practice to simply double your food costs to get the pricing for the menu. I suppose the same can be said for clothing vendors and other small businesses as well. It is that 'simplicity' [ignorance] that causes most small businesses to fail on the Thai market.....not taking into consideration rent, elect, labor etc.

OK, now you idiots can resume your squabbling......

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory posts deletd

[roamer]

Some people are taking great pleasure in taunting & going off topic. Some posts have been deleted. This is my last warning to these people, they know who they are. Next one suspension.

I strongly suggest reading FORUM RULES.

Just a suspension ? The wallies you are referring to have been pushing their infantile rants all over the forum over the last couple of weeks, this is yet another thread they have hijacked.

[waza]

I havent read all the thread, but I wonder how many businesses fail due to coruption costs? Thats isnt a factor in western business plans.

[kapasao]

The failure rates are possibly comparable to those in the west. I think the difference may be that it is so easy to start a business here that it just seems to be that so many fail. I agree that there must be little market research or often even any thought given to the viability of a business here. How many coffee shops does one country need!

Judging from appearances in Thailand, apparently the answer is 'one coffee shop per capita!'

[dave111223]

I havent read all the thread, but I wonder how many businesses fail due to coruption costs? Thats isnt a factor in western business plans.

You only pay corruption money if your doing something illegal. This wouldn't be a factor in a western business plan because if your business was illegal you'd get shut down right away, no chance to pay any corruption costs...

[BillR]

I havent read all the thread, but I wonder how many businesses fail due to coruption costs? Thats isnt a factor in western business plans.

You only pay corruption money if your doing something illegal. This wouldn't be a factor in a western business plan because if your business was illegal you'd get shut down right away, no chance to pay any corruption costs...

not always true, I own a fitness related business and we had a police guy coming around asking for $ on several occasions. Luckily I was never there and eventually he gave up. I also put cctv in after the first time so i'm sure that helped.

[thequick7]

At the other end of the spectrum I think some businesses manage to stay open even thought they do a terrible service simply because Thais never complain or return goods. We've used one or two shops where everything we've bought has been totally useless, yet still the shop operates.

I have often thought the same way about alot of businesses here in thai, and i agree that thais are very unlikely to complain or return goods. But at the end of the day they must be doing something right within the demographic they cater for? No matter how good the location of a business, if you dont get what you payed for on a majority of your dealings with them, you will not go back.

What could it be that they are doing right? That would be research worth looking into...

[WarpSpeed]

Too many businesses subscribe to the build it and they will come mentality hoping by opening a retail front people will just walk in.

Very little thought given to 'actual' marketing and planning and differentiation.

Very little if any thought given to new product development.

Less would fail if they looked at two things...

1. Why would a consumer want or need to shop in your establishment?

2. Pay attention to customer service. In today's price sensitive world, people will pay a little more for a better / hassle free experience. This is important to keep in mind when your establishment charges more than a similar one next door.

I agree with your second premise but if your second premise is correct then it contradicts your first one.. If you build it and you support it well with 1st rate customer service they most definitely will come and stay and that is even more true in this market where so much is lacking. I've been saying this for years as that model is successful in ANY market, it's all relative as I myself have taken full advantage of back home and here as well...

I welcome what is considered competition here as it's far easier to be a stand out, there is no competition if you stand out with what you provide for services..

Back home you could be one of several potential service providers with only minor differences in your skills, costs or quality offered where as here if you're good at what you do the word will get out fast and price shoppers are then best left as seconds to the average masses..

Edited September 12, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Heng]

What could it be that they are doing right? That would be research worth looking into...

A good number of business folks own their locations outright so there is that much less downward operating cost pressure. No rent and no interest on a mortgage. For folks that are paying XX,000 a month in rent or mortgage payment, let's say 50,000 a month, well right when you've opened your eyes, before you've taken a leak and a shower, you already owe someone 1,600 Baht for the day and you haven't even sold anything yet. It's so much nicer to be the one owed rent than the one scraping for rent each month.