Immigration Stamp-In Dates And "Use By" Date

[Sam Drucker]

I'm trying to book an itinerary and wondering about practices at Suvarnabhumi regarding the stamp in dates (especially around the midnight hour) and a clarification on the visa "use by" date.

1 In the distant past, I used to fly the NW flight into BKK, and it arrived around midnight. I distinctly remember a few times that it arrived after midnight, and I was hitting the immigration checkpoints between 00:15 and 01:00. I recall that they still stamped me in with the "before midnight" date, even though it was well after midnight. Does anybody know what immigration's policy is on when they change arrival date stamps (and thus also change the "must leave by" date?

2 I have a non-imm B visa expiring in October. I need to do a visa run before it expires, to effectively get 15 months out of it. The wording and the dates is a little bit unclear. It is rubber stamped in my passport, and says "This visa must be utilized before October 16th, 2010." Handwritten below that, it says "Issued October 17th, 2009"

Does "This visa must be utilized before October 16th, 2010" mean I can not use it if I arrive back to BKK on October 16th, 2010?

Seems to me with the issue date as it is written, it should say either "This visa must be utilized before October 17th, 2010" or "This visa must be utilized by October 16th, 2010."

I'd like to take a trip with a return flight to BKK that is scheduled to arrive at 23:50. I'd like to maximise the trip, while still being able to use the visa. Thus, I'm trying to decide if I should return on the 14th, 15th, or 16th? And what if a flight gets delayed for arriving in BKK, due to weather or something? Any flexibility with immigration, especially if you're down to your last day on the visa? Would they honor the scheduled arrival date as a good-faith intention by the traveler?

[wolf5370]

You can use it up to and including the day of expiration - I wouldn't trust a 23:50 landing on the 16th though that would just be too close - there may be a line at passport control or the flight may be delayed. I would choose the 15th at the latest. I would leave nothing to chance or the whim of the guy at P.C.

[MTH]

Does "This visa must be utilized before October 16th, 2010" mean I can not use it if I arrive back to BKK on October 16th, 2010?

Correct, you need to enter Thailand the 15th of October the latest to utilize you visa.

As for arriving at 23:50 on the 15th, it should be good enough. However myself I'm not sure I'd take the risk of missing out on my last 3 months due to a delayed flight.

I don't know what time they do the date stamp changeover, but have as you passed through immigration after midnight, and been stamped in as arrived the previous day.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Don't forget the International Date Line! If you plan to arrive at, say, 2300+ hrs on the 15th, you'll need to DEPART the U.S. on the 14th.

Mac

[lomatopo]

I agree that you must be stamped in on 15 October 2010 in order to get another 90 days.

As to exactly when they change their stamps my best guess is not at 00:00. Maybe when the Immigration official takes a break or at shift change. I often take UA flight, which arrives late in the evening. In reviewing my entry stamps I have been stamped in for the scheduled day of arrival even when I cleared Immigration after 00:00, as late as 00:50. One time I arrived 02:50 (delays at SFO) and was stamped in for the actual (or following) day of arrival.

In similar circumstances I opt to arrive four (4) days before "the before date" on my current visa. In the OPs case that would be 12 October 2010. This allows for a few extra days in the case of a flight cancellation, UA and DL only have one flight per day so when they cancel the flight (which happens ~ 10 times per year on UA) the soonest you can arrive is 1+ day, but with a cancellation loads ex-NRT can be heavy as they re-accommodate pax. Sometimes it can more than one day to get out. Hence the buffer.

[Sam Drucker]

Well first of all, I'm not taking a Trans-pac flight. I'm in Thailand now, and just doing a visa run. Not crossing the dateline; only thing I'm crossing is the South China Sea (to/from the Phillipines.)

I went to my local immigration office and talked to them about this situation. They tell me I am good to come back in on the 16th (even though the wording is to use the visa before the 16th. (Should actually say by the 16th.)

However, the immigration official felt that as the flight has a scheduled arrival time of 23:50, it was pushing it to arrive on schedule on the 16th and get through immigration. No margins for error. We both agreed that to return on the 15th should be okay. That gives me all day on the 16th to get back if there is a problem, and there are numerous flight alternatives if something delayed us.

So that's the plan.

[MTH]

Well if you want to trust your local immigration office and arrive on the 16th, then good luck to you.

However since your visa states that is has to be utilized before the 16th October, you will not be able to use you visa if your arrive on the 16th or later

Play it as you want, and the best of luck to you, if you decides to arrive on the 16th.

[budmak]

To OP why are you giving yourself all the stress worrying about times and can I make it etc just do it on the 14th simples

[TerryLH]

"Well if you want to trust your local immigration office and arrive on the 16th, then good luck to you."

I'm curious. Did you not read the post, or not understand it?

He said he has talked to an immigration officer, and they both agreed it would be better to arrive on the 15th.

[Sam Drucker]

To OP why are you giving yourself all the stress worrying about times and can I make it etc just do it on the 14th simples

Well first of all, I'm not stressing or worrying about this. I'm planning for it. If I didn't think about it first and came back and got a surprise, then I'd be stressed.

Secondly, if you understand the original post, I want to maximise the trip (or actually, holiday.) To elaborate further, I have some obligations that prevent me from beginning this trip earlier. I am cutting it a little short (as it is) to get the holiday time I want, yet return in time to still utilize this current non-imm visa. So I don't want to come back earlier than necessary.

I'm satisfied with the answers I've gotten, and I'll return on the 16th. (I've now found a flight that returns early afternoon, rather than late at night.) And what if I return on the 16th and they don't honor that date? It's an in inconvenience then . . . not the end of the world.

[MTH]

"Well if you want to trust your local immigration office and arrive on the 16th, then good luck to you."

I'm curious. Did you not read the post, or not understand it?

He said he has talked to an immigration officer, and they both agreed it would be better to arrive on the 15th.

Well curiosity is always good, however have you read more then the last two posts in this thread?

If you have, you will realize that the OP is trying to get some support for his believes that he can arrive one day late and still utilize his visa.

[lomatopo]

I have had this same type of visa, with the same wording, so ~ 6 years. It is my opinion that the intent of the wording is to include the actual "...utilized before Month date Year", because that date is 365 days from the "Issued on" date. So in the OP's case, getting a stamp that says Oct. 16 would insure another 90 days. However, when I asked this same question in the past (in the Thailand Visa sub-forum), and others did, the overwhelming response from people I assume are more knowledgeable than me was that you had to get stamped in the day before. I was more flexible than the OP and never under the pressure the OP is to time their return in order to maximize a holiday, so I have always opted to be safe and leave a buffer of at least 3 days. I also didn't want to ever have any issues re-entering Thailand, or have to have any discussions with officials about the nuance of the meaning of the phrasing on the visa. My current visa's "before date" is Oct. 27, and I am re-entering on Oct. 23.

[LTGTR]

You can use it up to and including the day of expiration - I wouldn't trust a 23:50 landing on the 16th though that would just be too close - there may be a line at passport control or the flight may be delayed. I would choose the 15th at the latest. I would leave nothing to chance or the whim of the guy at P.C.

I arrived on the same Delta flight from Narita and we arrived early and there was no line at immigration,I was 2nd in line,so I got the current (correct) date stamped.

[Sam Drucker]

I have had this same type of visa, with the same wording, so ~ 6 years. It is my opinion that the intent of the wording is to include the actual "...utilized before Month date Year", because that date is 365 days from the "Issued on" date. So in the OP's case, getting a stamp that says Oct. 16 would insure another 90 days. However, when I asked this same question in the past (in the Thailand Visa sub-forum), and others did, the overwhelming response from people I assume are more knowledgeable than me was that you had to get stamped in the day before. I was more flexible than the OP and never under the pressure the OP is to time their return in order to maximize a holiday, so I have always opted to be safe and leave a buffer of at least 3 days. I also didn't want to ever have any issues re-entering Thailand, or have to have any discussions with officials about the nuance of the meaning of the phrasing on the visa. My current visa's "before date" is Oct. 27, and I am re-entering on Oct. 23.

Thanks Lomatopo, I agree with you, and Wolf359, and my local immigration office. If the visa was issued on Oct 17th (last year), and must be used "before Oct 16th" instead of by October 16th (meaning it must be used no later than Oct 15th,) then it really isn't a 1 year visa, is it? It's a "1 year minus 1 day" visa. So it would seem likely to just be a bad choice of wording on the visa stamp.

Looking at my passport, it's issue and expiration are done the same way: Issued Nov 15th, 200x and expires Nov 14th, 201x.

So I've got the airline tickets purchased, I'm returning on the 16th (now in the afternoon, not the almost-midnight arrival time I stated in the original post.) I'll report back here as to what happens.

Well curiosity is always good, however have you read more then the last two posts in this thread?

If you have, you will realize that the OP is trying to get some support for his believes that he can arrive one day late and still utilize his visa.

Sorry MTH, but I wouldn't characterize the situation that way. I am not trying to "get some support," and I do not believe I can arrive one day late and still use my visa. What I do believe is that they used a poor choice of wording on the visa, and that it is still technically valid on the final date shown (in my case, Oct 16th.) To believe otherwise would mean (as stated above) that it is not a 1 year visa, but a "1 year minus 1 day" visa. That would seem illogical (but not impossible; still, even local Immigration agrees that it is okay for entry on the 16th.)

My original post was to seek anybody that might have true and actual knowledge or experience with this issue.

[MTH]

Sorry MTH, but I wouldn't characterize the situation that way. I am not trying to "get some support," and I do not believe I can arrive one day late and still use my visa. What I do believe is that they used a poor choice of wording on the visa, and that it is still technically valid on the final date shown (in my case, Oct 16th.) To believe otherwise would mean (as stated above) that it is not a 1 year visa, but a "1 year minus 1 day" visa. That would seem illogical (but not impossible; still, even local Immigration agrees that it is okay for entry on the 16th.)

My original post was to seek anybody that might have true and actual knowledge or experience with this issue.

Sam, Initially it was my understanding that you posted this question in the Suvarnabhumi Forum, as one of your questions was how late in the day you can arrive at the airport, before they change the date stamp.

And you got some good answers to that, unfortunatley nothing infinite, but a few good advice, and it seems that you are taking these in.

As for utilize before date, I'm not sure how you can reason "poor wording" and that it would be "illogical".

If you spent some time in Thailand, I'm sure that you have already run into quite a few "illogical" situations here.

At least from Westerner thinking

If you would go ahead and post the question about the last day you can utlize your visa in the Thai visas, residency and work permits Forum.

You will get the same answer from posters with "true and actual knowledge or experience with this issue", that I and lomatopo have already stated.

You have to arrive in Thailand on the 15th, if your looking to utilize your visa a last time, and it states that it has to be utilized before the 16th.

[Sam Drucker]

Here's what happened:

When I departed Suvarnabhumi 10 days ago, after I passed through the immigration "Stamp-out", there was a group of several desks you must pass with immigration officials there (before entering the open shopping area of the terminal.) I'm not sure what their purpose is? Maybe to handle "problems" at the stamp-out, overstays. etc.? Anyway, I stopped, showed them my itinerary and when I was returning, and my visa stamp in my passport, and asked if I was okay returning on the 16th? Three of them huddled and unanimously said I was okay. Then one of them read the visa carefully and took issue with the wording that said ". . . before Oct 16th, 2010." The others shot him down. Just to make sure, they called down to the "Immigration Entry" area and ran it by them. They said it was okay. So the three people dealing with me agreed I'd be okay getting back on the 16th.

I came back today, and stopped at Immigration. Everything was normal, then just before he goes to hand it back to me, he stops to look at the visa again, then looks at the date on his watch, then looked at me and said "You have 90 days, okay. Last day for visa!" and had a smile on his face.

So it turns out it is a bad choice of wording on the visa stamp, saying "use before" instead of "use by"

[NanLaew]

Semantics.

[Crossy]

Semantics.

Indeed, I would not rely on the fact that a number of people have reported being allowed to use their visa on the 'enter before' date.

It would be just my luck to get the officer who interprets it in the same way as the majority of English speakers would and not allow its use.

IIRC there has been at least one case reported of a person NOT being allowed to use their visa on the 'enter before' date

[MTH]

Sam, you pushed the limit and managed to get away with it.

I still wouldn't want to recommend this to any one, as there have been previous reports of travelers arriving the day of the "utilize before date" and being denied using their visa.

Unfortunately I change passports every few years, as they tend to get fill up quite quickly with immigration stamps, and I don't have any of my older passports around.

But my latest non immigrant visa has an issue date of Aug 10, 2010 and a utilize before date of Aug 10, 2011.

So either the consulate/embassies are now aware of these problems (semantics), or the consulate where I received my latest visa has always issued a "true" one year visa, as opposed to yours.

[Sam Drucker]

Sam, you pushed the limit and managed to get away with it.

I still wouldn't want to recommend this to any one, as there have been previous reports of travelers arriving the day of the "utilize before date" and being denied using their visa.

Unfortunately I change passports every few years, as they tend to get fill up quite quickly with immigration stamps, and I don't have any of my older passports around.

But my latest non immigrant visa has an issue date of Aug 10, 2010 and a utilize before date of Aug 10, 2011.

So either the consulate/embassies are now aware of these problems (semantics), or the consulate where I received my latest visa has always issued a "true" one year visa, as opposed to yours.

Well, I don't feel that I "got away" with anything, or for that matter that I even "pushed" the limit, as all of the Immigration officials at my local office AND at Suvarnabhumi were in aggreement that my visa was still good and legal on the 16th. It was more a question of "defining" the limit, and the way they did my visa (with the wording used on the stamp) just seemed to me to be incorrect. For sure, the example you noted for your own visa would seem to be the correct way to do them (with the choice of "use before" wording.)

I too would not recommend going to the last day like I did (if avoidable,) because then there would be no question about validity upon return. I had reason to go to the last day however. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in the same manner if I had to. I did my homework ahead of time, and had enough Immigration officials tell me it was okay (before I went.) I also got a few of their names, so that I knew I had a reasonable arguement to stand on if a rogue official at stamp-in said it wasn't valid.

Thanks to all who contributed with their thoughts on this topic.