Fair Pay Is One Way To Root Out Corruption In Thailand

[hoaker]

Did someone say Fair Pay in Thailand? must be smokin something illegal to be this dillusional...

[Canada]

One of my brothers-in-law's son has just got a job as a teacher in a government school, so he's now entitled to a loan over a million baht as he's got nearly 40 years employment ahead of him.

So his dad has plans to buy a pick-up outright with the loan. I asked who would be responsible for the repayments to the bank and he said his son as gratitude for being brought up by his old man.

Start work and owe 600,000 baht immediately!

Yeah....then there's the family corruption/extortion. Not many freebies going around in this society are there?

[mca]

Ever tried to get something done at a government office there without paying tea money? Very hard to do.

With all due respects craig ( and of course I'm not saying it never happens) in all my dealings with government offices over the years for numerous things there has never once been a suggestion of any bribes to be paid.

[brahmburgers]

I can agree that bribes are not endemic, at least not at the lower levels I work at. I recently got a tambian ban "yellow book, house registration in my farang name,' And was not asked any tea money. However, to get local things done on village level, there is often money expected. It can be the form of asking for a loan, and then never paying it back (the pu yai ban of my village pulled that on me). Actually that can happen with all sorts of people.

Another recent experience: me wanting to electric service hooked up. I had already paid materials and labor for the wires to get strung 110 meters. I just needed the local pu yai ban (different than the one mentioned earlier). An intermediary told me he wanted a bottle of scotch plus 2,000 baht. I paid the money, but I gave him a brand of Scotch that was regular sized and was NOT Johnny Walker. I got what I wanted, but there was an added delay of 2 weeks because of the slight.

Then there's another recent story where my hill tribe g.f. was trying to get a real Thai ID. She said the gov't official wanted a bribe, but he wouldn't state how much. Finally, when pressed, he said Bt.100,000. She counter-offered Bt.50,000, and she got the ID. Good thing he didn't know she was dating a farang, then the bribe amount would have probably been in the 200 to 250 thousand range.

The message here is 'not all bribe requests have to be agreed to' and 'bribes can be bargained down in value.' Bribe giving and taking will lessen when the ones being bribed are brave enough to say 'NO' 'it's not right' or 'that's waaaay too much for what should be a free gov't service.

If I was the one sitting at the table trying to get a Thai ID, and the man asked for a bribe, I might have gone to his superior and reported it. Of course, it wouldn't have done any good, because the superior would just say 'Do you have a video of it? No you don't, So then there's no way to know whether you're telling the truth. And furthermore, none of my people lie or ask for bribes, so there's the door. Goodbye.'

[craigt3365]

Ever tried to get something done at a government office there without paying tea money? Very hard to do.

With all due respects craig ( and of course I'm not saying it never happens) in all my dealings with government offices over the years for numerous things there has never once been a suggestion of any bribes to be paid.

The latest one is when my wife wanted to change her name on her mothers tambien book to her new married name (she is still registered in her mothers tambien book in the village). Obviously, it is a farang last name. Her mother had to pay special money to get this done. Above and beyond what it should have cost. I was quite pissed when I found out...but she said if it was not done, they could hold it up forever. It was no big deal...like 1000 Baht or something for a simple photocopy of a required doc (normal fee of 20B). But I was still pissed. Glad I was not there....

Another crazy one is when her uncle wanted to move to an open position near his home village as opposed to where he is, next to the Cambodian border. Tea money was requested and it was a big amount. This was for a government office.

I could name more...including my first trip to immigration where I was asked to pay an extra amount for a proof of residence form as my house is in a corporation, not in my wifes name (and I didn't have all the required paperwork). The lady sat behind her desk, shuffled the papers, shook her head, looked around, then came up with 500B. I was about to go crazy, but wifey kicked me and hinted I should shut up and pay. The money was handed over and it went into the top drawer of her desk. My form was approved and stamped and handed over...

[mca]

I guess my lucky rabbit's foot a gypsy sold me must work after all!

[asiawatcher]

average income of a civil servant is what? civil servants include teachers right? and the salary of a goverment teacher starts at aroung 9,000 baht. so who the f*** is getting the superhigh salaries to make the average so high?

oh yes, sorry i forgot, corruption = high salary for low labour quality and a nice suit.

Couldn't agree more. The people I know in Public Service would not average 15,000 a month so the tops end must be well paid and certainly top heavy to pull up these sorts of numbers.

But then claiming debts of 800,000 plus change as opposed to 600,000 plus change could simply be a mortgage and I wish I had one that low? Should have married a public servant!

[damian7000]

it has nothing to do with pay. B15000 is triple what the average non government worker makes. it has to do with how they spend it. stop buying fancy cars and big tv's and you'll be fine.

[Puccini]

Increasing the pay for low-ranking civil servants would not solve the problem. They still would have to collect bribes to pass this money on to those higher up the ladder. From

The party's big shareholders make sure that their MPs who become ministers squeeze and extort as much money as possible from their positions of power, through all possible corrupt means, to pay back the investments made on them during the election campaigns.

[Shipwreck]

One of my brothers-in-law's son has just got a job as a teacher in a government school, so he's now entitled to a loan over a million baht as he's got nearly 40 years employment ahead of him.

So his dad has plans to buy a pick-up outright with the loan. I asked who would be responsible for the repayments to the bank and he said his son as gratitude for being brought up by his old man.

Start work and owe 600,000 baht immediately!

He is only able to get loans IF he is a member of "Sahagon Khru"....If not then he's able to get Jack sh&^%

My wife is also a teacher in a Govt. school with 16 years experience and she is only able to get 600,000 so i think 1 million is going a bit too far.

What is meant by 'Sahagon Khru" ? Is that a teacher union or something?

[hammered]

If you know anything about the amounts involved in the corruption then it would be obvious monumental pay raises woudl be needed, and even then maybe it wouldnt change anything unless there were mandatory life sentences for corruption or soemthing. Then again in China they are executing high ranking corrupt officials and it hasnt stopped corruption. There unfortunately is no easy way out unless maybe you start to have the people refuse to pay corruption money en masse. Then again who is going to go toi the police station for speeding when they could just.....

[bannork]

One of my brothers-in-law's son has just got a job as a teacher in a government school, so he's now entitled to a loan over a million baht as he's got nearly 40 years employment ahead of him.

So his dad has plans to buy a pick-up outright with the loan. I asked who would be responsible for the repayments to the bank and he said his son as gratitude for being brought up by his old man.

Start work and owe 600,000 baht immediately!

He is only able to get loans IF he is a member of "Sahagon Khru"....If not then he's able to get Jack sh&^%

My wife is also a teacher in a Govt. school with 16 years experience and she is only able to get 600,000 so i think 1 million is going a bit too far.

What is meant by 'Sahagon Khru" ? Is that a teacher union or something?

Sahakon Khru ,means a Teachers Cooperative.

My brother-in-law could be suffering from wishful thinking, but he did say his son could borrow such a lot because he had so many working years ahead whilst your wife with 16 years experience obviously has less time till retirement.

I'll let you know the results in a few months!

[TAWP]

One of my brothers-in-law's son has just got a job as a teacher in a government school, so he's now entitled to a loan over a million baht as he's got nearly 40 years employment ahead of him.

So his dad has plans to buy a pick-up outright with the loan. I asked who would be responsible for the repayments to the bank and he said his son as gratitude for being brought up by his old man.

Start work and owe 600,000 baht immediately!

This is half the reason of the issue, parents using their kids for financial gain.

(If the dad had half a brain he would use the full loan to set up a business...but that would require 'work', a bad word amongst many people. And people then complain that they are in hardship with money...)

[TAWP]

The Nation is always there to explain why nepotism and corruption is happening and why it is more or less okay. An income of 43,000 Bht a month is a huge income in comparison to all those millions of hard working Thai people in Izan and the North who feed those corrupted court, police and state officials. They work often for 10% or less of the monthly amount mentioned.The fact is that the Nation never misses an opportunity to lambast protestors looking for a better life while having a good word for civil servants on the take. I understand that in a police state you need millions of civil servants to spy or to report otherwise on the Thai voters who despise the ruling class. The problem is easily solved. By sending home 50% of the police force, 75% of all generals (Thailand is comparable with Napoleon's army to many officers no soldiers to do the fighting), by sending home 30% of the people in state enterprises the good people can be rewarded accordingly without letting the rice farmer pay the bill of bleeding a factory worker dry. instead of feeling sorry for the pay of civil servants the editor should change his leather designer shoes paid for by his family's fortune and switch them for sandals to look in the rice paddies how life is over there. Suddenly it is incredibly clear to me who are the real uneducated people here. It is the elite who always feel sorry for their friends on the take.

Where do you think a good part of the civil servants come from? Issan! And many are on the take. Ever tried to get something done at a government office there without paying tea money? Very hard to do. And that is Issan people ripping off Issan people...primarily poor farmers. Has nothing to do with the elite.

You mean the protesters who were getting paid 500B per day? My relatives went just for the money! It's the red leaders who despise the ruling elite...because they want to get back to the trough themselves.

Police state? Are you serious? I would say that about Cuba, but not about Thailand.

Corruption is all over Issan. Just wait until the elections come around again...money is spread all over. By those simple farmers from Issan.

Funny note, yesterday my GF told me something I never got around to asking (she doesn't like it when I talk politics), and that was that indeed even her family was paid (300baht) per vote. Her parents live on the borders of Issan[land] basically.

[craigt3365]

If you know anything about the amounts involved in the corruption then it would be obvious monumental pay raises woudl be needed, and even then maybe it wouldnt change anything unless there were mandatory life sentences for corruption or soemthing. Then again in China they are executing high ranking corrupt officials and it hasnt stopped corruption. There unfortunately is no easy way out unless maybe you start to have the people refuse to pay corruption money en masse. Then again who is going to go toi the police station for speeding when they could just.....

For sure. Corruption will always be around...no matter where you live. But if they at least started enforcing the laws, things might get a little better. At least a few will be caught and prosecuted...as opposed to today where they just bribe their way out or something like that.

I get cracked up when reading about the problems Charles Rangel is having in the US. He is head of the House Ways and Means Committee. The one that sets and defines the tax laws....kinda an important committee.

He is up on charges for tax evasion and all sorts of other stuff related to corruption and misuse of office. Pretty sad....