Thai Monestary May Have Misused Bt100m In Donations

[webfact]

Monk speaks up about 'dubious' donations

By The Nation

Speaking through his lawyer, renowned Buddhist monk Phra Pramote Pramocho yesterday countered allegations about the dubious handling of donations worth Bt100 million by saying that the accounts were initially handled by his wife, who is now a nun, because she was very trustworthy.

Speaking at the Suan Santitham monastery in Chon Buri, lawyer Thanadej Phuangphool said the monetary transactions also involved other people during three different periods of time when the monastery was being built five years ago.

Oranuch, who is still legally married to the monk, was not the only person who had the authority to deposit or withdraw money from the monastery's account.

While the monastery was still being constructed, a bank account was opened under the names of Oranuch and author Thitinart na Phatthalung, who earlier this week lodged a query with Department of Special Investigation over belief that the donations may not be handled transparently. At that time, the bankbook of the joint account was in the possession of a man called Thana Rujiphatthanakul.

As the construction came closer to completion, Thitinart reduced her role in the handling of accounts due to her busier schedule, leaving Oranuch to do the job alone. This was when their joint account was closed, and the remainder of the money was either used to cover construction costs or put away in a second account, which was opened in August 2008. This account was opened under the names of Oranuch and two other people. All transactions were documented and coinspected by one of the members other than Oranuch. Then one of the members, Apichart Assawaruengchai, resigned on January 15 this year and a third account was opened in February, under the name of Thana and two new people, the lawyer said.

Oranuch is currently only in charge of petty cash and documents all expenditure, which is checked by one of the three and audited by an outside company.

In a sermon yesterday, the monk told his followers, who still show up at the monastery in large numbers, that "everything will be alright".

DSI deputy chief Narat Sawettanant said an initial scrutiny into Thitinart's complaint would be carried out in a transparent manner that is fair to all parties. No criminal action has been taken and Thitinart's complaint has no criminal repercussions against the monk or his monastery.

-- The Nation 2010-09-17

[wandrinstar]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

[Tony Clifton]

Watch the upcoming chain reaction hitting other temples...

[junglist]

Watch the upcoming chain reaction hitting other temples...

this one is deeper then the news post. the woman who backing the case has alot to gain at the monks fall. i am in the know on this one.

[SamritT]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

[junglist]

Phra Pramote is a good man and makes no money from his temple. I have done audio work for this temple. It is sad that they are being played like this. The people pushing the case had a falling out with the temple, simply the were using it and him to make money. Sad he is a good man.

[junglist]

sorry for the bold opps...

[Buchholz]

Speaking at the Suan Santitham monastery in Chon Buri, lawyer Thanadej Phuangphool

The dubious monk's lawyer has another dubious client:

Quote:

"....Thanadej Phuangphool (Thakin's lawyer) said Thaksin was not a leader of the red-shirt protests - he simply made phone calls to offer moral support to the protesters and their leaders, with no intention of inciting unrest. ....."

The man is delusional, again - seems to believe that everybody is stupid and cannot see him for exactly what he is, a liar, a charlatan, a person with no values or morals or respect for others.. Seems to think he can just re-write history, after the event, to a different version which are expedient for his current purposes, or which 'sound better'.

[asiawatcher]

And Oranuch was in charge of petty cash - 100M Baht - some petty cash! And all the duck shoving opening accounts in multiple peoples names et al - unbelievable how this country works. Ever heard of a Pubic Trustee to keep all on the straight and narrow - it won't stop it but sure as hel_l would solve a lot of the corrupt issues.

[samjaidee]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

Were you selective in reading the post?

It says quite clearly "Oranuch, who is still legally married to the monk".

The obvious implication of this is that prior to him becoming a monk they lived together as husband and wife but since he became a monk they are married in name only.

I'm shocked......... at your misinterpretation.

[12DrinkMore]

A bit off topic, this reminded me of that monk who had a massive collection of "Benz's".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/923367.stm

He disappeared under the radar, wonder what the result of the "censur" was? As some guy wrote "if you can't sweep it under the rug, then it gets treated as furniture".

[iono]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

[Seanextra]

well we are starting to run out of places for corruption here in the LOS next thing we will hear is the police force are taking bribes!

[evanson]

I'm extremely disappointed at this news item. Of course I am not naive enough to believe this doesn't go on, but this will certainly have a knock on effect amongst those 'Willing' donations to 'temples in the making'. It certainly will mine.

Is nothing sacred in this country? No pun intended.

[bagheera]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

Your reference to Orwell"s Animal Farm and comparing monks with pigs is wholly inaccurate, inappropriate and distasteful . As Samrit points out, a monk may not marry, but may have married before becoming a monk as is commonly the case. You state in your post that you are shocked, well i'm also shocked. Shocked(but sadly not surprised) that somebody listed as a 'senior member' on this forum could be so ignorant of common customs and traditions in Thailand. Next time you feel like comparing several million people to pigs I suggest you do your homework first. May I take this opportunity to apologise on behalf of wandrin star to anybody offended by his/her ignorance.

[wandrinstar]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Thats perhaps why he went walkabout.:jap:

[spiderleghead]

monks can be married before teh go into the temple. yes it does seem odd, but then TIT.

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

[jackr]

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

I'm with that. For some reason, ole Henry VIII and is wicked ways comes to mind when this type of thread appears.

[Samuian]

Speaking at the Suan Santitham monastery in Chon Buri, lawyer Thanadej Phuangphool

The dubious monk's lawyer has another dubious client:

Quote:

"....Thanadej Phuangphool (Thakin's lawyer) said Thaksin was not a leader of the red-shirt protests - he simply made phone calls to offer moral support to the protesters and their leaders, with no intention of inciting unrest. ....."

The man is delusional, again - seems to believe that everybody is stupid and cannot see him for exactly what he is, a liar, a charlatan, a person with no values or morals or respect for others.. Seems to think he can just re-write history, after the event, to a different version which are expedient for his current purposes, or which 'sound better'.

...purely coincidence and also part of a conspiracy against the good monk... comes "honest mistakes" to mind... lovely, so lovely, some of the people, if not all in this country are taken for a ride, an awesome wild one, a giant roller coaster one....ah' well, then there is the unwritten law of karma, which doesn't need lawyers, judges, prisons or courts... it will get everyone without mercy... that's why no one, no honest soul ever has to worry, it will come on silent but swift wings and hit hard, no escape, no excuse!

Way, way too many saffron robe wearers are involved in dubious businesses, gambling, lottery, money lending, land lease.... way too much!

I see all these marble floors, all the gold trimmed roof's and gables, all this Schmuck and Glitz at the feet of the Buddha, I feel sick!

[bagheera]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

It's not about not owning a cell phone etc....it's about not being attached, there is a difference. You say from your " observations...........still make money to pay bills and support themselves and family ." So how many monks do you know ? What did these "observations" entail exactly ? The way you write "not all monks" infers the majority of monks and I suspect that your knowledge of Buddhist monks in Thailand and possibly Thai culture in general to be minimal and your opinions unqualified.

[ctira]

The accusers said in Thai news that it is "possible" that the monk has up to 100 million in his ex-wife's account. They do not have any kind of proof. So before we all "believe" that he has that much money, let's wait til evidence shows up. And even if they had that much money where would it have gone to I wonder. The place is not at all grand and there has been no further constrution at the site. No one ever sees Phra pramote nor his ex-wife owns anything fancy. DSI should investigate on DMC aka UFO cult. They make some serious cash over there.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ctira

[tomyummer]

"...purely coincidence and also part of a conspiracy against the good monk... comes "honest mistakes" to mind... lovely, so lovely, some of the people, if not all in this country are taken for a ride, an awesome wild one, a giant roller coaster one....ah' well, then there is the unwritten law of karma, which doesn't need lawyers, judges, prisons or courts... it will get everyone without mercy... that's why no one, no honest soul ever has to worry, it will come on silent but swift wings and hit hard, no escape, no excuse!

Way, way too many saffron robe wearers are involved in dubious businesses, gambling, lottery, money lending, land lease.... way too much!

I see all these marble floors, all the gold trimmed roof's and gables, all this Schmuck and Glitz at the feet of the Buddha, I feel sick!"

I must say that I initially got 'sick' seeing all the glitz in gold when I first saw it upon my introduction to Thailand's temples and rituals. My religion goes against many of the surface displays of Buddhism (multiple deities, gold and bling bling everywhere, etc.). But, the core of values is the same and I've grown to realize why Thailand is still mostly a tolerant and family based society. It is the Buddhism that I think keeps everything together. Even with the occasional (okay more often nowadays) instances and greed found within the temple walls (my religion also has it's bad side, if not worse than in Thailand) there is still something good and sacred about the Buddhist religion. Although I do not understand Buddhism 100%, I can appreciate it 100%.

Let's hope these instances don't throw the religion here in Thailand way off course.

Edited September 17, 2010 by tomyummer

[Canada]

Just a question......

Only speaking about Chiang Mai.....anybody have any idea of the value of the land holdings of the Church of Buddha just within the walls of the city? A person probably could make an estimate of land area and then multiply that by the approx price per dalang wah. Then you could look outside the walls. That's only in Chiang Mai.

For an emerging 3rd world country, this place has a lot of Churches....rich ones, especially if you consider the amount of people living well below what we call the poverty line. I just wonder why we would need so many churches (tiny tiny villages will have 2 or 3), and just what is the purpose of the Churches here in Thailand? Do they actually have a purpose? Just asking because I don't know.

I think that we would be naive to think that the Church of Buddha would be any less corrupt than the Church of Christ or the Church of God, Allah or Muhammed. A Church is a Church is a Church. Period. They get tax breaks, they wield power through fear(be good or go to hel_l, or worse yet, return to this planet), and they were (...some places still are) usually in cahoots with governing bodies. Is it any different here in Thailand than anywhere else on the planet?

I doubt it.

[sunanta]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

theres already enough temples in thailand, 100 million baht would feed many poor people for quite a long time......

[iono]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

It's not about not owning a cell phone etc....it's about not being attached, there is a difference. You say from your " observations...........still make money to pay bills and support themselves and family ." So how many monks do you know ? What did these "observations" entail exactly ? The way you write "not all monks" infers the majority of monks and I suspect that your knowledge of Buddhist monks in Thailand and possibly Thai culture in general to be minimal and your opinions unqualified.

My observations, A married man who takes out a loan from the bank, builds a new home, then becomes a monk to beg and pay for said house, another man, supposed Mafia, now a monk smokes drinks, get's his money from the locales and continues to live a normal life with all attachments only difference is now lives at temple and dresses in orange....Monks driving Tuktuks, Monks smoking, Monks drinking these are observations over a few years...you sound bitter or have you been anointed as the defender of Thailand's religious customs and cultures....what you do live at a temple for 3 months, get off of your high horse your not the only one who has experiences in Thailand.

[wandrinstar]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

Your reference to Orwell"s Animal Farm and comparing monks with pigs is wholly inaccurate, inappropriate and distasteful . As Samrit points out, a monk may not marry, but may have married before becoming a monk as is commonly the case. You state in your post that you are shocked, well i'm also shocked. Shocked(but sadly not surprised) that somebody listed as a 'senior member' on this forum could be so ignorant of common customs and traditions in Thailand. Next time you feel like comparing several million people to pigs I suggest you do your homework first. May I take this opportunity to apologise on behalf of wandrin star to anybody offended by his/her ignorance.

Some People then if it Offends your P.C. Mentality, a Monk is a Man, how can you confuse an everyday Quote.

[TackyToo]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

I agree 100%

I know a guy who has three kids with three different wives; he hardly ever worked in his life. He borrowed 60.000 Baht from a working girl in the family to bail him out of jail. Of course, he never paid his depth. He stole and sold the motorbike of a family member to buy a gun. Then he decided to become a callboy in Pattaya. After he discovered that no one pays attention to the wrinkled butt of a 34-year-old callboy he became -guess what- a monk! Now people bow down in respect for him and offer him seats in the MRT. A cheat is a cheat no matter which color of his robe!

[ctira]

Obviously the accusers are trying to taint the monk's reputation by making the story "big" so people have negative view on him. If they are so very certain that he is wrong why would they go to DSI for "investigation" instead of filing a court case.

[elcent]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

BUDDHA MARRIED LIFE ::: At the early age of sixteen, Buddha married his beautiful cousin of equal age, Princess Yasodhara. For nearly thirteen years, after his happy marriage,

[elcent]

Buddha said:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

The following prose, attributed to Buddha, is a poetic expression of the way he saw the world.

Buddha said:

Buddha consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes.

Buddha observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles.

Buddha look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags.

Buddha see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil upon my foot.

Buddha perceive the teachings of the world as the illusions of magicians.

Buddha discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes.

Buddha see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, nirvana as a nightmare of daytime.

Buddha look upon the judgments of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of belief as traces left by the four seasons.