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The 9/11 Thread

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The US Army is developing the logistics to stay in Iraq for 4 years...this does not mean that they will necessarily stay there for 4 more years....it only means that if it is necessary to stay there 4 more years then they will prepared for it. Announcing this long term planning is probably a signal to the terrorists to indicate that the US is willing to stay long term to defeat them.

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When the time comes that American politicians see US withdrawal from Iraq as a vote winner, that will be the time US forces will leave.

The US voting public will decide this issue, just as they did in Vietnam.

Well, the US Army is going to be in I-raq for at least another four (4) years - deal with it. :o

Unless they get kicked out of there Saigon style :D

Why is that the continual rebuttal by all of you bleeding heart libs is to attempt to draw a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

The circumstances of the war are completely different. The circumstance of the American society as a whole are completely different. The circumstances between American and enemy forces are completely different.

Hence your intended point is as mindless as all of your other posts in this thread.

You are joking, right ?

The only person who fails to realize these obvious facts is you!

Event the consumate liar himself, Hillbilly, tries to respin his failure to act with Bin Laden when he had the chance. Try researching some of his more recent interviews when he is asked about how Bin Laden got away. His replies make it plainly obvious that he screwed the pooch, plain pure and simple.

Just one of many reasons why his spin-meisters continue to try to rewrite his legacy almost 6 years after it ended.

Tonight and tomorrow the National Geograpic Channel will show a special on the Terrorist Attack on the Twin Towers with their special in depth series Inside 9/11 at 9 pm.

I'm sure that  everyone here would agree that  National Geographic is a highly objective and well repected Organization, dispite being based in Washington D.C., America....

:D

I hope everyone here has the chance to watch it.... :o

NG is mostly a leftist organization, but I watched 9/11 it in its entirety and was shocked in how pretty much objective it was... and how Bill Clinton [*spit*} should be jailed for life for his 100% culpability for 9/11.

And, it was less political than I expected, confirmed Pakistani junior high student predicting attacks the week before in a classroom, and also detailed the night before that the hijackers were looking for porno and whores. :D

Haven't checked into this thread since it's inception but I can see it's progressing nicely.

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Keep it up fellas. :o

Haven't checked into this thread since it's inception but I can see it's progressing nicely.

Keep it up fellas.  :o

Cheers for all the cartoons bud, that was quite a show...

Why is that the continual rebuttal by all of you bleeding heart libs is to attempt to draw a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

Duh :D

maybe because 1 + 1 = 2 :o

Why is that the continual rebuttal by all of you bleeding heart libs is to attempt to draw a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

Because the American public will not tolerate mounting casualties if the reason for the war is not unequivocally just, morally correct and clear cut.

The Iraq and Vietnam war(s) does/did not fullfill this criteria.

Why is that the continual rebuttal by all of you bleeding heart libs is to attempt to draw a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

Because the American public will not tolerate mounting casualties if the reason for the war is not unequivocally just, morally correct and clear cut.

The Iraq and Vietnam wars does/did not fullfill this criteria.

What's the death toll at now? <2k, right? (US Serviceman/women)

There's more than that killed on the highways in a week... :o

Well, the US Army is going to be in I-raq for at least another four (4) years - deal with it. :o

Unless they get kicked out of there Saigon style :D

Why is that the continual rebuttal by all of you bleeding heart libs is to attempt to draw a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

The circumstances of the war are completely different. The circumstance of the American society as a whole are completely different. The circumstances between American and enemy forces are completely different.

Hence your intended point is as mindless as all of your other posts in this thread.

This is a link form Yahoo news about a Republican senator who thinks that the war in Iraq is looking like the war in Vietnam. I'm not commenting as to whether I agree or not...I'm just trying to point out that it is not just bleeding heart liberals who see the similarity:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050822/ap_on_...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

What's the death toll at now? <2k, right? (US Serviceman/women)

There's more than that killed on the highways in a week... :o

Fantastic justification there Boon - I'm sure there's "<2k" families who would love to hear that statistic.

What's the death toll at now? <2k, right? (US Serviceman/women)

There's more than that killed on the highways in a week... :D

Fantastic justification there Boon - I'm sure there's "<2k" families who would love to hear that statistic.

Well, let's ban cars then? :o

What's the death toll at now? <2k, right? (US Serviceman/women)

There's more than that killed on the highways in a week... :D

Fantastic justification there Boon - I'm sure there's "<2k" families who would love to hear that statistic.

Well, let's ban cars then? :o

I agree!

THIS IS A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT. BY ORDER OF BOON MEE AND CHOWNAH, ALL CARS ARE NOW BANNED. HAVE A GOOD DAY.

What's the death toll at now? <2k, right? (US Serviceman/women)

There's more than that killed on the highways in a week... :D

Fantastic justification there Boon - I'm sure there's "<2k" families who would love to hear that statistic.

Well, let's ban cars then? :o

I agree!

THIS IS A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT. BY ORDER OF BOON MEE AND CHOWNAH, ALL CARS ARE NOW BANNED. HAVE A GOOD DAY.

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will. They went over there on a mission they believed in. It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

Tonight and tomorrow the National Geograpic Channel will show a special on the Terrorist Attack on the Twin Towers with their special in depth series Inside 9/11 at 9 pm.

I'm sure that  everyone here would agree that  National Geographic is a highly objective and well repected Organization, dispite being based in Washington D.C., America....

:D

I hope everyone here has the chance to watch it.... :o

NG is mostly a leftist organization, but I watched 9/11 it in its entirety and was shocked in how pretty much objective it was... and how Bill Clinton [*spit*} should be jailed for life for his 100% culpability for 9/11.

And, it was less political than I expected, confirmed Pakistani junior high student predicting attacks the week before in a classroom, and also detailed the night before that the hijackers were looking for porno and whores. :D

The second part Inside 9/11 was on tonight and I missed a lot of it. Some of the feedback I got was the reaction to the girl out on the jagged beam, flames behind her, who blessed herself, put her arms out, looked to the sky, and jumped. The man who tried to lower himself from the 91st floor with some sort of rope. The outdoor plaza muzak still playing as the bodies hit the pavement..

It was heavy... :D

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will.  They went over there on a mission they believed in.  It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

They were in the armed forces, their personal beliefs were immaterial. They HAD to go.

They did not sacrifice their lives, that gives the impression that they had a choice. Their lives were brutally taken from them.

US servicemen are not allowed to give interviews to the media without a superior officer present. Why is that? Could it be that disillusionment is setting in with the troops on the ground?

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will.  They went over there on a mission they believed in.  It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

They were in the armed forces, their personal beliefs were immaterial. They HAD to go.

They did not sacrifice their lives, that gives the impression that they had a choice. Their lives were brutally taken from them.

...

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." – George Orwell

But do not confuse these “rough men” with simple automatons. These “rough men” are honest men and women who have chosen a life of service; they are trying their hardest to do their duty with integrity, loyalty, accountability, open-mindedness, compassion and respect. For this they are willing to, and do, offer their lives.

Our part in this contract, as tax-payers and wage-masters, safe as we are because of them, is to honour them, respect them and never forget their sacrifice.

I agree with you TM. I do respect them. But, I think their sacrifice (there is that word again which is a euphemism) is unnecessary in this case. My own position is that Iraq should never have been invaded.

My reasons:-

1. WMD's? Why Iraq? Why not North Korea? Proven delivery system with strong likelihood of already having a war-head. It wasn't the perceived walk-over that Iraq was thought to be.

2. No connection to Al-Queda, or, 9/11.

3. No fresh UN mandate.

4. Oppressive regime? Plenty of others just as bad.

IMO it's about oil and revenge and the lives of US serviceman are being lost because of it (nevermind the estimated 20,000 civilian deaths since the "war" ended).

I agree with you TM. I do respect them. But, I think their sacrifice (there is that word again which is a euphemism) is unnecessary in this case. My own position is that Iraq should never have been invaded.

My reasons:-

1. WMD's? Why Iraq? Why not North Korea? Proven delivery system with strong likelihood of already having a war-head. It wasn't the perceived walk-over that Iraq was thought to be.

2. No connection to Al-Queda, or, 9/11.

3. No fresh UN mandate.

4. Oppressive regime? Plenty of others just as bad.

IMO it's about oil and revenge and the lives of US serviceman are being lost because of it (nevermind the estimated 20,000 civilian deaths since the "war" ended).

The war is about oil, finishing the job (from the first Gulf War) and hegemony in the area.

All other points are incidentals.

The reason above is sufficient for me - and many - because I, my family and friends, both here and in the Middle East, would never be able to live with the alternative.

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will.  They went over there on a mission they believed in.  It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

They were in the armed forces, their personal beliefs were immaterial. They HAD to go.

They did not sacrifice their lives, that gives the impression that they had a choice. Their lives were brutally taken from them.

...

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." – George Orwell

But do not confuse these “rough men” with simple automatons. These “rough men” are honest men and women who have chosen a life of service; they are trying their hardest to do their duty with integrity, loyalty, accountability, open-mindedness, compassion and respect. For this they are willing to, and do, offer their lives.

Our part in this contract, as tax-payers and wage-masters, safe as we are because of them, is to honour them, respect them and never forget their sacrifice.

I believe that our reponsibility to them is to do everything we can on a personal and social level to reduce the need for them to risk their lives.

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will.  They went over there on a mission they believed in.  It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

They were in the armed forces, their personal beliefs were immaterial. They HAD to go.

They did not sacrifice their lives, that gives the impression that they had a choice. Their lives were brutally taken from them.

...

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." – George Orwell

But do not confuse these “rough men” with simple automatons. These “rough men” are honest men and women who have chosen a life of service; they are trying their hardest to do their duty with integrity, loyalty, accountability, open-mindedness, compassion and respect. For this they are willing to, and do, offer their lives.

Our part in this contract, as tax-payers and wage-masters, safe as we are because of them, is to honour them, respect them and never forget their sacrifice.

I agree in the main TM, but as a friend of mine who spent 15 years in the Army said to me "All I wanted to do was fight.That's what we trained for, that's what we joined the Army for and we all wanted to see how good we were, otherwise we would not have joined"

My point was originally that the brave servicemen & women that have sacrificed their lives in Iraq and Afganistan did so of their own free will.  They went over there on a mission they believed in.  It might sound trite etc. but to them the promotion of Democracy and the reduction of Terror was a Noble Cause in which they believed.

They were in the armed forces, their personal beliefs were immaterial. They HAD to go.

They did not sacrifice their lives, that gives the impression that they had a choice. Their lives were brutally taken from them.

...

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." – George Orwell

But do not confuse these “rough men” with simple automatons. These “rough men” are honest men and women who have chosen a life of service; they are trying their hardest to do their duty with integrity, loyalty, accountability, open-mindedness, compassion and respect. For this they are willing to, and do, offer their lives.

Our part in this contract, as tax-payers and wage-masters, safe as we are because of them, is to honour them, respect them and never forget their sacrifice.

I agree in the main TM, but as a friend of mine who spent 15 years in the Army said to me "All I wanted to do was fight.That's what we trained for, that's what we joined the Army for and we all wanted to see how good we were, otherwise we would not have joined"

Exactly.

And what makes these "rough men" unique is, they know, in winning or losing, they could lose their lives.

That is a sacrifice (I will use no other word, Sir Burr) no other job demands.

If you don't want to run this risk, and live well on a fat pension, be an plumber, an accountant or a lawyer - the army is not for you.

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never live because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those "heroes". It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low without blinking an eyelash.

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never leave because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those people. It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low.

I never said anything pro or patriotic...just what a mate told me.He also went on to add that anybody that joined the armed forces and was hurt and/or wounded in combat had NO reason to complain....'cause that's what they joined for. :o

I believe that our reponsibility to them is to do everything we can on a personal and social level to reduce the need for them to risk their lives.

Amen to that.

On the other hand, if they think they will be involved in some of video game like battles while killing innocent civilians then they don't derserve our protection. The meat grinder is more like it.

Defending your country is a noble cause. Invading "illegally" on a false pretense is unacceptable.

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never leave because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those people. It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low.

I never said anything pro or patriotic...just what a mate told me.He also went on to add that anybody that joined the armed forces and was hurt and/or wounded in combat had NO reason to complain....'cause that's what they joined for. :o

I find this hard to believe, above all in the US (different story in Europe)

Many in the US enlist because they have no other choice, too poor, only opportunity to get to college. Then you find yourself in a difficult position to go fight a war you oppose.

There always been the "light headed" Terminator. That's OK. They are needed. But this is not true for the majority.

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never leave because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those people. It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low.

I never said anything pro or patriotic...just what a mate told me.He also went on to add that anybody that joined the armed forces and was hurt and/or wounded in combat had NO reason to complain....'cause that's what they joined for. :D

I find this hard to believe, above all in the US (different story in Europe)

Many in the US enlist because they have no other choice, too poor, only opportunity to get to college. Then you find yourself in a difficult position to go fight a war you oppose.

There always been the "light headed" Terminator. That's OK. They are needed. But this is not true for the majority.

That's a mighty fine explanation you have given about my mate who was in the NZ Army. :o

If you are poor or not, you MUST realise that one day you could be called on to fight if you join the armed forces.If you don't then you shouldn't be fit to join in the first place.It's not exactly rocket science. ...Join Army, learn how to use weapons...kill people. :D

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never leave because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those people. It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low.

I never said anything pro or patriotic...just what a mate told me.He also went on to add that anybody that joined the armed forces and was hurt and/or wounded in combat had NO reason to complain....'cause that's what they joined for. :D

I find this hard to believe, above all in the US (different story in Europe)

Many in the US enlist because they have no other choice, too poor, only opportunity to get to college. Then you find yourself in a difficult position to go fight a war you oppose.

There always been the "light headed" Terminator. That's OK. They are needed. But this is not true for the majority.

That's a mighty fine explanation you have given about my mate who was in the NZ Army. :o

If you are poor or not, you MUST realise that one day you could be called on to fight if you join the armed forces.If you don't then you shouldn't be fit to join in the first place.It's not exactly rocket science. ...Join Army, learn how to use weapons...kill people. :D

They do realize that but only hoping that the politicians will not send them for "stupid" causes. That's the whole tragedy of this situation.

Hey maybe your mate is there for the male bonding thing :D

Gotta love the "patriotic" and "pro-miltary" speeches from armchair heroes. People who love to comment how "tough" service men need to be while sitting in the confort of a chair in their living room. Dream of heroic battles that "he" will never leave because "he "is a coward at heart and will rather lecture others on the benefits of wars rather than fight himself. I applaude such courageous acts from those people. It takes gut to sink that low and stay that low.

I never said anything pro or patriotic...just what a mate told me.He also went on to add that anybody that joined the armed forces and was hurt and/or wounded in combat had NO reason to complain....'cause that's what they joined for. :D

I find this hard to believe, above all in the US (different story in Europe)

Many in the US enlist because they have no other choice, too poor, only opportunity to get to college. Then you find yourself in a difficult position to go fight a war you oppose.

There always been the "light headed" Terminator. That's OK. They are needed. But this is not true for the majority.

That's a mighty fine explanation you have given about my mate who was in the NZ Army. :o

If you are poor or not, you MUST realise that one day you could be called on to fight if you join the armed forces.If you don't then you shouldn't be fit to join in the first place.It's not exactly rocket science. ...Join Army, learn how to use weapons...kill people. :D

They do realize that but only hoping that the politicians will not send them for "stupid" causes. That's the whole tragedy of this situation.

Hey maybe your mate is there for the male bonding thing :D

Hoping that politicians will not send them for "stupid" causes is just plain "stupid"

As for my mate, he left the Army 15 years ago.He had a small problem, the yanks withdrew from the ANZUS (Because NZ would not let Nuke powered vessels in to our ports) and he was incharge of overseas excercises...so he had nothing to do.As for the male bonding thing, i'll give you his number so you can ask him.His tel no is 0800 stickybeak. :D

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