Thai Immigration Introduces Jail Time For Overstayers

[rick75]

Of course it was said in jest, I even thought I would put a little side note in for the slow amongst us, but then thought it would not be needed, obviously i got that wrong

[Jingthing]

If foreigners are not going to advocate for OTHER foreigners in Thailand, who will?

Why on earth would I want to support somebody who broke the law of the host country mate?

You never know, it could be you someday, Mr. "Good Farang". It depends on the law. I am talking about visa overstay and immigration issues only. Why support more harshness? Do you think that helps you and foreigners as a class? Are you Thai? Are you identifying more with Thai police than your OWN people? Do you reckon Thais in America would side with the US INS over their own people on visa overstay charges? I contend this identification with the Thai police over your own people is a form of MENTAL ILLNESS.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[wolf5370]

Isn't it just easier to either remove or drastically increase the cap - 20k is affrdable to most foreigners here I'd wager - but 2 million max fine?

Jail serves little purpose other than an extra cost to the state. Fine them and for long term illegal overstayers fine, deport, black-list. Keep records of black-lists and don't rely on a passport stamp - fingerprints and retension of name and DOB - then if a similar named passport comes in the fingerprints can be used to confirm its the same person or just someone with the same name.

While its true that some countries allow legal name changing and use on authorised documents, this will be much rarer than just buying a new passport.

I agree with JingTing though that people at immigration leaving the country should not be jailed - that's just silly - a nice big fine (relevcent to the amount of days overstayed - I thin the ramping makes sense, just the cap is too low) and a proper black listing is all that's needed - as he said they are deporting themselves and taking up a cell at the public cost makes no sense whatsoever - and as they missed their flight, they may not be able to afford another and then they are stuck in a cell (again at Thai expense) for much longer.

[Basil B]

Just some bullet points...

Would like to see rules on visas more reciprocal especially where it involves marriage

So spouse settlement visas to the UK (or anywhere else) should be renewed annually showing continued sponsorship, funds in the bank or appropriate level of income from abroad, report every 90 days, and permanent residence/citizenship rarely granted?

Yes, I'd give that a try.

I was actually thinking the other way round, if you were married to a Thai you should be entitled live and work in Thailand if you so wish, would also point out it would not be unfair if Thailand was to do what the UK does whereby if you are a foreigner you actually need to apply for permission to marry before entering the country.

[jucel]

How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing.

I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries.

Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s.

i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation.

[pattayabuggy]

I have never read such wailing,gnashing of teeth and tearing of cloth than this thread has generated. Also complete lack of knowledge of Thai immigration laws. The Thai authorities donot enforce enough laws and they get flack they put a bit more behind their laws and they get flack. There seems to be fair number of posters on this thread who have bipolar diease.

This thread has defiantly brough out personal insecurities and dislike for Thais, if I felt about Thailand the way some of you folks have on this thread I would be on the first plane out or never come back.

And a question to a earlier post pray tale how will this affect tourism the majority of real tourist come on a visa exempt stamp at airport and have a return ticket home which they use at the end of their vacation.

For many people it's not so easy to leave, fooled by the friendliness and fake smiles, they sell up and move here to live and burn bridges in the process. A mistake granted. 

It should not affect tourism, what there is left of it!

As far as I know this law has always been in place, but with the stronger threat of a jail sentence, more money can be extracted. It's all only about money, everything, money, money, money, that is the motive for everything here. This is a fact, anyone who thinks differently has yet to learn, that's all. All you supporting this latest idea from the Intimidation department, have let to learn.

[ccarbaugh]

Again, (as usual,) Jingthing is "spot-on!"

[astral]

The answer is simple, don't overstay to start with.

That has alwasy been the advice here at ThaiVisa.

[mca]

If foreigners are not going to advocate for OTHER foreigners in Thailand, who will?

Why on earth would I want to support somebody who broke the law of the host country mate?

You never know, it could be you someday, Mr. "Good Farang". It depends on the law. I am talking about visa overstay and immigration issues only. Why support more harshness? Do you think that helps you and foreigners as a class? Are you Thai? Are you identifying more with Thai police than your OWN people? Do you reckon Thais in America would side with the US INS over their own people on visa overstay charges? I contend this identification with the Thai police over your own people is a form of MENTAL ILLNESS.

Well basically with regards to overstay it won't be me because I'm not so thick as to not know when my extension expires nor not check when the officer hands my passport back to see if they've stamped it correctly. I'll deal with the case of being thrown out despite being married to a Thai, having a Thai child and meeting the immigration requirments when that event never happens.

It's not a case of identifying more with the Thai police over my own people. If people are too frigging dumb or such bottom feeders as to be on an overstay period that will result in possible incarceration then that's their lookout.

Mental illness? Have you ever had a moment of self reflection? Ever? In your life?

[gbswales]

Countries spend vast sums of money "protecting their borders" to selfishly look after their own citizen's self interests. This is why two thirds of the world live close to poverty - because the population of the world is not allowed to move around and minimise the effects of diminishing resources. I detest all forms of nationality and nationalistic principles especially where countries like the UK (where I live), US and Australia perpetuate the moral myth that each country has the rigth to fence itself in.

It wont change in the lifetime of anyone reading these boards but one day I hope there will be a world which has no borders and where people take a pride in managing the whole planet rather than their little corner of it.

For me any increased immigration controls in any country in the world are a retrograde step which only hurts those people who do not have oodles of money

[wintermute]

How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing.

I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries.

Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s.

i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation.

If you didn't have the means to take care of your kid maybe you shouldn't have had a kid to begin with. Also a kid doesn't give you carte blanche permission to break laws and use that as an excuse for everything.

I suppose a guy who robs banks is doing it to feed his kids too..so what?

[apetley]

Countries spend vast sums of money "protecting their borders" to selfishly look after their own citizen's self interests. This is why two thirds of the world live close to poverty - because the population of the world is not allowed to move around and minimise the effects of diminishing resources. I detest all forms of nationality and nationalistic principles especially where countries like the UK (where I live), US and Australia perpetuate the moral myth that each country has the rigth to fence itself in.

It wont change in the lifetime of anyone reading these boards but one day I hope there will be a world which has no borders and where people take a pride in managing the whole planet rather than their little corner of it.

For me any increased immigration controls in any country in the world are a retrograde step which only hurts those people who do not have oodles of money

Yeah, there's certainly no foreigners in the UK is there?

Edited September 24, 2010 by apetley

[beechguy]

Again, (as usual,) Jingthing is "spot-on!"

So do you also advocate people coming to your country and breaking the law?

Edited September 24, 2010 by beechguy

[tngtng]

Again, (as usual,) Jingthing is "spot-on!"

So do you also advocate people coming to your country and breaking the law?

That's funny...we must have been reading different posts. I never saw him advocate that.

[jucel]

How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing.

I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries.

Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s.

i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation.

If you didn't have the means to take care of your kid maybe you shouldn't have had a kid to begin with. Also a kid doesn't give you carte blanche permission to break laws and use that as an excuse for everything.

I suppose a guy who robs banks is doing it to feed his kids too..so what?

excuse me!! i have the means to take care of my child!! i did not say that. I'm talking about somebody to look after them while i do my visa run or go to my home country. My situation is not about money, its about somebody to look after my child/dog while i am away!! understand?? would u leave ur child (if u have) with random people in a foreign country!

[beechguy]

Countries spend vast sums of money "protecting their borders" to selfishly look after their own citizen's self interests. This is why two thirds of the world live close to poverty - because the population of the world is not allowed to move around and minimise the effects of diminishing resources. I detest all forms of nationality and nationalistic principles especially where countries like the UK (where I live), US and Australia perpetuate the moral myth that each country has the rigth to fence itself in.

It wont change in the lifetime of anyone reading these boards but one day I hope there will be a world which has no borders and where people take a pride in managing the whole planet rather than their little corner of it.

For me any increased immigration controls in any country in the world are a retrograde step which only hurts those people who do not have oodles of money

So, you don't lock your door to protect your self interests?

[wintermute]

How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing.

I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries.

Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s.

i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation.

If you didn't have the means to take care of your kid maybe you shouldn't have had a kid to begin with. Also a kid doesn't give you carte blanche permission to break laws and use that as an excuse for everything.

I suppose a guy who robs banks is doing it to feed his kids too..so what?

excuse me!! i have the means to take care of my child!! i did not say that. I'm talking about somebody to look after them while i do my visa run or go to my home country. My situation is not about money, its about somebody to look after my child/dog while i am away!! understand?? would u leave ur child (if u have) with random people in a foreign country!

If you have money then you could easily hire a reputable agency sitter to take care of your kid and dog for the couple days it takes you to become legal. You don't even need to leave the region in most cases to get a visa that will allow you to stay lengthy periods. Have you heard of this thing called a tourist visa?

But yeah keep telling yourself that your "kid" and "dog" is what is keeping you from doing things legally. Sure thing buddy.

Edited September 24, 2010 by wintermute

[beechguy]

How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing.

I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries.

Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s.

i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation.

If you didn't have the means to take care of your kid maybe you shouldn't have had a kid to begin with. Also a kid doesn't give you carte blanche permission to break laws and use that as an excuse for everything.

I suppose a guy who robs banks is doing it to feed his kids too..so what?

excuse me!! i have the means to take care of my child!! i did not say that. I'm talking about somebody to look after them while i do my visa run or go to my home country. My situation is not about money, its about somebody to look after my child/dog while i am away!! understand?? would u leave ur child (if u have) with random people in a foreign country!

Assuming your child's mother is Thai, why don't you apply for an "Extension of Stay" based on having the child? No border runs.

[mca]

should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so.

I'm terribly sorry but that's just a crock of you know what. Feeble excuse.

A bit like somebody getting stopped for drink driving and saying " Should I have left my car parked at the pub and risk it getting stolen? I don't think so."

Better a bit of inconvenience than being caught on overstay and being deported. Then you'd really know what a problem was when you and your little one are at the airport going who knows where. Assuming you could leave with him/her at all.

[jucel]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

[wintermute]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

Oh no 3 days!? You could surely afford a professional sitter since you claim money is no issue. What's the problem then?

I'm guessing it's b.s. reasons like yours is primarily why immigration is now tightening the screws on western expat wetbacks.

Edited September 24, 2010 by wintermute

[jucel]

should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so.

I'm terribly sorry but that's just a crock of you know what. Feeble excuse.

A bit like somebody getting stopped for drink driving and saying " Should I have left my car parked at the pub and risk it getting stolen? I don't think so."

Better a bit of inconvenience than being caught on overstay and being deported. Then you'd really know what a problem was when you and your little one are at the airport going who knows where. Assuming you could leave with him/her at all.

great analogy!! its not even about an 'inconvenience'. if u read the post properly u would know that already! its about trusting somebody to look after my child/dog. the operative word is trust.

[jucel]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

Oh no 3 days!? You could surely afford a professional sitter since you claim money is no issue. What's the problem then?

I'm guessing it's b.s. reasons like yours is primarily why immigration is now tightening the screws on western expat wetbacks.

wetback??? i pay for everything myself in Thailand u conceited n*b. I don't work here and live off rental income from uk. Where do u get a professional sitter from??

[wintermute]

great analogy!! its not even about an 'inconvenience'. if u read the post properly u would know that already! its about trusting somebody to look after my child/dog. the operative word is trust.

There are agencies with reputable trained professionals who can be hired out for things like this. Go look at who ambassador families or other people with high security needs hire for this. If you're paranoid you could use the same agencies even though it will be costly.

[tim73]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

Most ironic thing of all this is the fact many richer guys just pay 50000-70000 Bahts to certain agencies for "full service". Then they get their passports stamped in nearby countries and get one year visas without themselves even leaving Thailand. But poorer guys should go to jail, according to the law book moralists here...hypocrites.

Edited September 24, 2010 by tim73

[jucel]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

Oh no 3 days!? You could surely afford a professional sitter since you claim money is no issue. What's the problem then?

I'm guessing it's b.s. reasons like yours is primarily why immigration is now tightening the screws on western expat wetbacks.

must be nice to live in your utopian world!

[wintermute]

yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least!

Most ironic thing of all this is the fact many richer guys just pay 50000-70000 Bahts to certain agencies for "full service". Then they get their passports stamped in nearby countries and get one year visas without themselves even leaving Thailand. But poorer guys should go to jail, according to the law book moralists here...hypocrites.

Yeah but the the thing is the richer guys are still bothering to jump through the hoops and get the paperwork done to make sure they are legal. If you're so skint you can't take care of visas then you need to go home asap and never come back.

Thai immigration is right on the money with this one. By the looks of this thread they are shaking out the useless rabble quite well with this new policy change.

[mca]

Basically if you'd wanted to do things right then you'd have to endure taking your child on the trip. It's not exactly the end of civilization as we know it is it? Basically in life you do shit because you've got to do shit. I didn't want to put 400k Thai baht in a Thai bank when me and the wife were quite happy extending on her salary. But I did. I didn't want to got to my brother in laws funeral the day after my wedding when he died suddenly. But I did. There's a whole lot in life where, if we make excuses, we don't want to do. But we still do it. Because we have to.

[jucel]

great analogy!! its not even about an 'inconvenience'. if u read the post properly u would know that already! its about trusting somebody to look after my child/dog. the operative word is trust.

There are agencies with reputable trained professionals who can be hired out for things like this. Go look at who ambassador families or other people with high security needs hire for this. If you're paranoid you could use the same agencies even though it will be costly.

thanks for the helpful advice. It looks like i might need to get a sitter for the baby and a separate sitter for the dog. I'm only a couple of months over at the moment so will heed your advice. I just have the horrible/nervous thought of leaving and not then not being able to come back!

[beechguy]

Again, (as usual,) Jingthing is "spot-on!"

So do you also advocate people coming to your country and breaking the law?

That's funny...we must have been reading different posts. I never saw him advocate that.

Close enough for me, check out post #248. I suppose I'm mentally ill for supporting the Thai's rights to enact law and allow their police to enforce it, rather than advocate for foreignors who choose to break the law.

Why would I advocate for someone, who apparently comes here with the attitude that Thailand is a third world country and they can just do whatever they want?

Edited September 24, 2010 by beechguy