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"Can You Give Me A Discount" In Thai


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Posted (edited)

On a related note, this reminds me many years ago when studying Smyth's 'Teach Yourself Thai' there's a dialogue in there when the farang asks the price of something and says "ooh, paeng gern bai!" (แพงเกินไป) as a prelude to the "lot raka dai mai" gambit.

However, I quickly learned from the embarrassed reaction of the mrs that this is not a polite thing to say ("paeng gern bai", I mean) when told the price of something in shops or even stalls (except maybe in the delights of tourist zones like Sukhumvit and Silom, where manners appear to be neither expected nor minded).

I soon stopped using it in favour of a poker face nod, pause and a disinterested 'lot raka noi dai mai' as I start to walk away....

:)

Edited by SoftWater
Posted (edited)

^good one klons.

Sorry to be pedantic - doesn't this imply that you've already negotiated a lower price once, and now you're angling for the vendor to go down even further?

Edited by SoftWater
Posted

I'm a bit confused. Isn't the young man saying (in a very slurred and run together way) "rot dai eek ru blau khap"

Is that somehow implied in bpa hap above? Am I mis-hearing the young man?

Some help from my older brothers and sisters would be appreciated.jap.gif

Posted

^good one klons.

Sorry to be pedantic - doesn't this imply that you've already negotiated a lower price once, and now you're angling for the vendor to go down even further?

It is all explained here:http://learn-thai-podcast.com/podcast/ltp_p_conversation9.mp3

A kid want's to buy some wood blocks (toys) at a store. It starts out -

Pee krap, the wood blocks out front, can you lower the price.

Pee khrap dtua dtaw mai nah rahn, loht dai eek bpa khrap.

It's an amusing short conversation, I thought.

Posted (edited)

loht dai eek bpa khrap.

"ลดได้อีกปะครับ"

I think ปะ comes from หรือเปล่า which means ไหม.

Can you reduce the price a bit more.

"ลดราคาได้ไหมครับ"

sounds very "official", not like normal speaking language. Normally people leave the word ราคา out or use หน่อย instead.

Edited by kriswillems
Posted

loht dai eek bpa khrap.

"ลดได้อีกปะครับ"

I think ปะ comes from หรือเปล่า which means ไหม.

Can you reduce the price a bit more.

"ลดราคาได้ไหมครับ"

sounds very "official", not like normal speaking language. Normally people leave the word ราคา out or use หน่อย instead.

Got to agree with the above, ลดได้ไหม works for me every time.

One of the problems I faced when first learning the language was what was taught in schools and in most books, whilst very polite and proper

isn't the way most Thais speak in normal every day speach where its not uncommon to have at least one and often two words missing

from the speach patterns taught in schools.

Posted

.

I was told awhile back that its "LOT NOI DAI MAI" and it's worked well for me for a few years -- Most Thais have quite a laugh over it when a Farang uses it -- After all, were all rich and don't need a discount! .. :D

Can you make it cheaper? (lot noi dai mai)

The Thai word "noi" means little and is used to make a request sound more polite. All "dai mai" questions are answered with "dai" for "yes" and "mai dai" for "no".

http://www.learningt...m/shopping.html

.

Posted

loht dai eek bpa khrap.

"ลดได้อีกปะครับ"

I think ปะ comes from หรือเปล่า which means ไหม.

Can you reduce the price a bit more.

"ลดราคาได้ไหมครับ"

sounds very "official", not like normal speaking language. Normally people leave the word ราคา out or use หน่อย instead.

Isn't ปะ (which I also understand to be short for หรือเปล่า) rather colloquial? Wouldn't หรือเปล่า or better: ไหม be more polite? I alwasys use ลดราคาได้ไหมครับ. If in doubt, I always err on the polite side.

Posted

ปะ is a question tag same as ไหม or หรือเปล่า

It is quite informal and would be considered rude to use with someone who you just met.

Posted

I now know some of the เ่จ้าของภาษา who contribute to the forum, but not all. Therefore, some of the above may be from native speakers. I note that while ปะ is listed as a question word in the Thai-language dot com (trying to avoid TV cutting up my url's here),whistling.gif it is not listed in Lexitron and it doesn't appear in my 2542 พจนานุกรม ฉบับราขบัณฑิตสถาน (I think I may have seen this referred to here as "RTD"(?) and if so would appreciate the abbreviation being confirmed by พี่ๆrolleyes.gif). My "key informant/significant other" tells me that ปะ is indeed more or less slang for "หรือเปล่า". But I have a problem with its use by non-native speakers because I think we are almost bound to use it in situations that would be inappropriate (I think, for example, that very informal slang in the hands of even very skilled non-native speakers of English nearly always comes off as being enough off the mark to at the least grate on native speakers' ears and sometimes lead to outright misunderstandings and bad feelings). And I think this may be, if anything, even more true for non-native Thai speakers using words like ปะ. Posts from native speakers on this topic would be particularly valuable.

To indulge in a little slang......"jes sayin' " wink.gif

Posted

I'm no เจ้าของภาษา but i'll chip in my 2 bob anyway. I suppose like all things it depends on the situation. It's an expression i rarely use in speech, but i have used it with certain people of the opposite sex when i'm trying to be cute B) . I've also used it in chat rooms, a lot of people like to come and test your Thai with misspelt words and the likes, but again not often. In these rooms it's often spelt ป่ะ. I tend to use ได้หรือเปล่า or even shorten it down to ได้เปล่า which actually comes out like ได้ป่าว. Certainly however, in the situation of asking for a discount in a shop for something it's best to be polite. I remember recently i was shopping with a farang friend on Koh Samui his opening line to the shop owner to start haggling was อ้าวทำไมแพงจัง. Needless to say he didn't get a discount and i just cringed away in the corner.

Posted

I'm no เจ้าของภาษา but i'll chip in my 2 bob anyway. I suppose like all things it depends on the situation. It's an expression i rarely use in speech, but i have used it with certain people of the opposite sex when i'm trying to be cute B) . I've also used it in chat rooms, a lot of people like to come and test your Thai with misspelt words and the likes, but again not often. In these rooms it's often spelt ป่ะ. I tend to use ได้หรือเปล่า or even shorten it down to ได้เปล่า which actually comes out like ได้ป่าว. Certainly however, in the situation of asking for a discount in a shop for something it's best to be polite. I remember recently i was shopping with a farang friend on Koh Samui his opening line to the shop owner to start haggling was อ้าวทำไมแพงจัง. Needless to say he didn't get a discount and i just cringed away in the corner.

Over at Thailanguage.com they have ปะ and also ป่ะ one for men one for women I guess.

ป่ะ [informal abbreviation of the interrogatory หรือเปล่า spoken by a female]

Posted

I'm no เจ้าของภาษา but i'll chip in my 2 bob anyway. I suppose like all things it depends on the situation. It's an expression i rarely use in speech, but i have used it with certain people of the opposite sex when i'm trying to be cute B) . I've also used it in chat rooms, a lot of people like to come and test your Thai with misspelt words and the likes, but again not often. In these rooms it's often spelt ป่ะ. I tend to use ได้หรือเปล่า or even shorten it down to ได้เปล่า which actually comes out like ได้ป่าว. Certainly however, in the situation of asking for a discount in a shop for something it's best to be polite. I remember recently i was shopping with a farang friend on Koh Samui his opening line to the shop owner to start haggling was อ้าวทำไมแพงจัง. Needless to say he didn't get a discount and i just cringed away in the corner.

Over at Thailanguage.com they have ปะ and also ป่ะ one for men one for women I guess.

ป่ะ [informal abbreviation of the interrogatory หรือเปล่า spoken by a female]

It's strange that they have different spellings with the same sound and tone is it not?

Posted (edited)

I was going to say something about this earlier but refrained, but since Mike and Bhoydy have already got into it....

I have to agree that despite our (admirable) desire to sound like native speakers as much as possible, sometimes its just, well, not a good idea. One reason is that which Mike already addressed. I'm sorry, but when I go to immigration and here some farang sounding off at the officials in ภาษาตลาด its just hugely embarrassing. So much so, in fact, that when it's my turn I avoid any attempt at speaking even the politiest Thai so as not to offend the poor officials any further.

A second reason is for clarity. Kris mentioned that ราคา sound formal, when saying ลดราคาหน่อยได้ไหม and I'd agree I've NEVER heard my wife say that. On the other hand, I always say it, because whenever I try to speak 'like a native' people just don't understand me. This may partly because they are not expecting you to speak colloquially (and may not even want you to...back to Mike's point there), but partly because if you're pronunciation is only slightly off they probably can't figure out what you're saying. On the other hand, if you speak like an upper class news reader, they will not only think what a polite and well-educated guest of the country you are, but they'll also have more clues to piece together the sense of what you're on about if you get the pronunciation wrong.

I'd just add it cuts both ways: when my Thai students (very occasionally) try something out on me in English they've heard on HBO I'm invariably utterly lost as to what they're trying to say till they put it in a more formal sentence pattern.

Edited by SoftWater
Posted

I now know some of the เ่จ้าของภาษา who contribute to the forum, but not all. Therefore, some of the above may be from native speakers. I note that while ปะ is listed as a question word in the Thai-language dot com (trying to avoid TV cutting up my url's here),whistling.gif it is not listed in Lexitron and it doesn't appear in my 2542 พจนานุกรม ฉบับราขบัณฑิตสถาน (I think I may have seen this referred to here as "RTD"(?) and if so would appreciate the abbreviation being confirmed by พี่ๆrolleyes.gif). My "key informant/significant other" tells me that ปะ is indeed more or less slang for "หรือเปล่า". But I have a problem with its use by non-native speakers because I think we are almost bound to use it in situations that would be inappropriate (I think, for example, that very informal slang in the hands of even very skilled non-native speakers of English nearly always comes off as being enough off the mark to at the least grate on native speakers' ears and sometimes lead to outright misunderstandings and bad feelings). And I think this may be, if anything, even more true for non-native Thai speakers using words like ปะ. Posts from native speakers on this topic would be particularly valuable.

To indulge in a little slang......"jes sayin' " wink.gif

RTD is used in English as an abbreviation for "Royal Thai Dictionary". The 2542 edition is not the latest, though.

I agree that it is best for us non-native speakers to be polite, we are the guests here.

Posted

I was going to say something about this earlier but refrained, but since Mike and Bhoydy have already got into it....

I have to agree that despite our (admirable) desire to sound like native speakers as much as possible, sometimes its just, well, not a good idea. One reason is that which Mike already addressed. I'm sorry, but when I go to immigration and here some farang sounding off at the officials in ภาษาตลาด its just hugely embarrassing. So much so, in fact, that when it's my turn I avoid any attempt at speaking even the politiest Thai so as not to offend the poor officials any further.

A second reason is for clarity. Kris mentioned that ราคา sound formal, when saying ลดราคาหน่อยได้ไหม and I'd agree I've NEVER heard my wife say that. On the other hand, I always say it, because whenever I try to speak 'like a native' people just don't understand me. This may partly because they are not expecting you to speak colloquially (and may not even want you to...back to Mike's point there), but partly because if you're pronunciation is only slightly off they probably can't figure out what you're saying. On the other hand, if you speak like an upper class news reader, they will not only think what a polite and well-educated guest of the country you are, but they'll also have more clues to piece together the sense of what you're on about if you get the pronunciation wrong.

I'd just add it cuts both ways: when my Thai students (very occasionally) try something out on me in English they've heard on HBO I'm invariably utterly lost as to what they're trying to say till they put it in a more formal sentence pattern.

Very good posting, thank you very much SoftWater. I have also heard farangs showing off their knowledge of Thai in ภาษาตลาด to government officials or airline check-in staff. I feel sorry for the officials who have to keep a straight face and be polite.

Posted

There's nothing wrong with speaking politely and correctly... attempting to 'sound slang' is pure pretentiousness. If it's natural, then fine. but then you probably wouldn't have read this far anyway...

Posted

Why would someone like Ms. Becker do a a couple of volumes of Speak Like a Thai with informal colloquial

expressions, if using them is going to make you into a crude or pretentious farang? I find it hard to believe that using

ปะ would be offensive. How far off on the pronunciation can you get on ปะ ?

Where did Peppy go?

Posted

Why would someone like Ms. Becker do a a couple of volumes of Speak Like a Thai with informal colloquial

expressions, if using them is going to make you into a crude or pretentious farang? I find it hard to believe that using

ปะ would be offensive. How far off on the pronunciation can you get on ปะ ?

Where did Peppy go?

I don't know that book. But if it is any good, it will indeed explain when which level of politeness is appropriate in which situation. This is one of the few things in which Thai is more difficult than European languages.

Posted

Why would someone like Ms. Becker do a a couple of volumes of Speak Like a Thai with informal colloquial

expressions, if using them is going to make you into a crude or pretentious farang? I find it hard to believe that using

ปะ would be offensive. How far off on the pronunciation can you get on ปะ ?

Where did Peppy go?

I don't know that book. But if it is any good, it will indeed explain when which level of politeness is appropriate in which situation. This is one of the few things in which Thai is more difficult than European languages.

Very interesting, this discussion of slang-type language.

I suppose, in our native tongues, we know exactly when to use what type of language.

I can understand how it would be inappropriate to talk to government officials using the same type of informal language you might use at home, equally, addressing my g/f as if I had only just met her would make the discussion about how she picks her toe-nails rather silly too!

For instance, if I went to my passport office here in London and shouted over the queue "when you're ready love, passport, extra pages, I'll be in the garden, cheers"

it might be frowned upon but it works fine in the pub. (they don't do passports in the pub by the way, well, maybe if you're in there on a Wednesday and talk to...) just kidding, but you get my drift, I hope.

:)

Posted

It's not that using informal language is inappropriate in all circumstances. It is knowing the precise circumstances and getting, not just the pronunciation and tone, but also the exact timing, pace, volume and inflection right. If you listen to a couple of Thai high school students trying to sound like US ghetto black gang-bangers and see how silly they sound and look, you might get an idea of what I'm talking about. If you consider how the tone of your voice and your facial expression influence a native English speaker friend's reaction to your saying F**** O**, you will see just how difficult it is to pull off. Very, very few of us Farangs can do it in Thai. I'm not sure I've ever met an ESL speaker who could do it successfully. Even exchange students and international school students sound เพี้ยน when they try. As The Virginian said in Whistler's novel of the same title "When you call me that, .....smile".

A good reason for including such informal language in materials for teaching Thai to foreigners is so that the learner can recognize what is being said (comprehension), not necessarily so the learner will try to use the language him/herself.

Finally, observe how middle class, well-educated Thais speak in public and note how polite and formal their speech with everyone except intimate friends and family tends to be.

Thai is far, far more powerful in expressing intimacy and formality by word choice than is English. Think of the 10 or so words for "eat", each of which has an implied level of formality./informality. Compare this to English.

So " caveat speaker" jap.gif.

Posted

Thanks for that, very well put.

Yes, I see what you mean. Especially the F*** off reference (I'm not sure what that says about me :lol:) but it can have so many slight variations of tone and context which change it from meaning 'no! really?' to an angry expletive. I hear non-native speakers try, and fail, to use more informal speech every day.

Duly noted :wai:

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