Building A House In Thailand

[nickgonewalkabout]

I'm nearing completion of a small house-build project in Isaan, and have advice that might help others. My builder orders materials on my behalf and I go to the builders merchants afterwards to pay. Attempting to keep prices down, I've been doing comparison shopping in the Mahasarakham area. I've found all builders merchants carry the same type of metal trusses/girders for construction framework and roofing. They appear to be a better choice over wood which is so often susceptible to damage from ants. However, without exception, these metal trusses are designed to fail you. They're extremely difficult to protect from corrosion and rapidly turn to rust. I've instructed my builder to coat these girders thoroughly with metal primer and enamal, but they cannot or will not do so, partly because of their faulty design. The house is not yet complete but already the trusses are showing signs of rust.

I can't find a character on my keyboard to demonstrate what the old girders looked like, the ones used to construct New York city in the 30's for example, but in cross-section imagine a T with a line at the bottom of the T, like a rotated H on its side. These are strong girders designed to last. However, those being manufactured and widely distributed today in Thailand are in the shape of a square C. Unless you dip these girders into primer and paint, you'll find it extremely time-consuming and practically impossible to fully coat the inside of the C girder. I recommend therefore, if you want to avoid early replacement of your roof, instruct your builder to create a paint dip in which you can submerge your girders. This will coat and protect them properly from rust and give your house and its occupants the untroubled lives they deserve.

This appears to be a design failure that wastes earth's resources while increasing short-term profit for manufacturers and retailers. One would hope in a more enlightened world, such an agenda would be swiftly corrected.

Edited September 29, 2010 by nickgonewalkabout

[PattayaParent]

Tubular steel is lighter weight and just as strong as an I beam.

If you want it protected find the nearest galvanising plant and they'll have a bath big enough to dip it in which will coat inside and outside in zinc.

If you still want the outside painted then sandblast off the outer galvanising first before priming and painting.

[cloudhopper]

Tubular steel is lighter weight and just as strong as an I beam.

If you want it protected find the nearest galvanising plant and they'll have a bath big enough to dip it in which will coat inside and outside in zinc.

If you still want the outside painted then sandblast off the outer galvanising first before priming and painting.

Yeah exactly heavy box section plugged at ends the only way to go if you can.

[Naam]

"This appears to be a design failure that wastes earth's resources while increasing short-term profit for manufacturers and retailers."

it looks more that the design failure (your assumption) is yours. steel roof construction is the done thing in Thailand since more than two decades and the steel profiles used are doing their job. suitable wood is much too expensive and the termites in Thailand are a bigger danger to wood than rust is to properly primed and painted steel.

"right on the money" is however your demand that the steel has to be primed and painted. i don't see a technical problem to paint the steel of your home especially because you mentioned it is a small one and the cost is negligible as labour is dàmn cheap. but if the rooftiles are already installed you do have a problem.

about three years ago i inspected the roof of a home which a friend of mine bought later. date of construction was 1993. result: some negligible rust spots at welding joints. my home, respectively the roof structure, was built nearly 5 years ago (not during the rainy but during dry season). i crawl around the attic every few months, not to check for rust but other purposes, and have not found any dangerous rust spot. but the alpha and omega in a tropical country with rather high humidity is attic ventilation. the latter not only to stop corrosion and rot but also to save a bundle on airconditioning.

[selftaopath]

Thanks, I never thought of that. We gearing up to begin building in the next few months.

Keoki

[floridaguy]

"I can't find a character on my keyboard to demonstrate what the old girders looked like, the ones used to construct New York city in the 30's for example, but in cross-section imagine a T with a line at the bottom of the T, like a rotated H on its side."

You mean an I? They are called I beams.

Edited September 29, 2010 by floridaguy

[Naam]

"I can't find a character on my keyboard to demonstrate what the old girders looked like, the ones used to construct New York city in the 30's for example, but in cross-section imagine a T with a line at the bottom of the T, like a rotated H on its side."

You mean an I? They are called I beams.

internationally known as "Double T" beam.

[longball53098]

When our builder was getting ready for the roof steel piece of our build he had a painter lay out all the steel c channel on wood 4x4's and spray painted all channels inside and out with 2 coats of red primer and one coat of black enamel. After erection and welding, a staff laborer that was part monkey climbed all over the steel structure and repainted all the welds and scratched spots. Builder did the same to our smaller pump house steel

[Naam]

that's the way to do it!

[Pib]

A neighbor down the street just expanded their house...same coating method as longball53098 used. All the houses in my moobaan have steel beams based on what the builders told me.

I had a house in Hawaii (fairly humid place) whose wall and roofing frame/beams was totally C shaped steel...and the floor beams were tubular/square O shaped. All of this steel was untreated with any rust preventive primer/paint...it may have had a galvanized coated. But I do know for the 13 years I lived there no rust appeared on the steel anywhere. I also know the tubular/square O shaped beams in my current 2 year old Bangkok home shows zero signs of rust....they were coated with rust preventive like longball53098 described.

Steel framing is rapidly replacing wood framing worldwide, in high and low humidity environments, and termites just can't seem to get their teeth sunk into it. Personally, I would not want a house with wood roof beams if I could have steel beams instead.

[johnnyk]

My builder simply made himself an open box about 12' long 6" wide and 6" deep.

Hammer, nails, wood, half an hour. Filled it with anti-rust primer and simply dipped the steel in it.

When it was welded in place and before roof tiles went on a guy climbed up and painted the weld points.

Not particle physics.

[nickgonewalkabout]

When our builder was getting ready for the roof steel piece of our build he had a painter lay out all the steel c channel on wood 4x4's and spray painted all channels inside and out with 2 coats of red primer and one coat of black enamel. After erection and welding, a staff laborer that was part monkey climbed all over the steel structure and repainted all the welds and scratched spots. Builder did the same to our smaller pump house steel

[nickgonewalkabout]

My beams are all in-place now so its too late for me, but sounds like most of the respondents have employed good builders to install their roofs. My 'best-in-the-area' builder was unwilling to do anything more than run a brush over the outside and inside, missing out on the inner bends on a significant portion of the beams in which rust now shows. I was up there doing it myself when it became obvious that the builder was only paying lip-service to his promise to properly coat the beams, until the thinners and the heat got too much for me. I ended up with an allergic reaction on my skin, perhaps as a result of the chemicals used in the TOA Mandarin brand of enamel paint.

Reading everybody's responses, it seems I may have been unwise or unlucky in my choice of builder. Perhaps too there's a combination of other factors including an unwillingness to push workers to do a thorough job, pride mixed with incompetency, and a little anti-falang bias. Perhaps I wasn't on site enough. Out in the boonies in Isaan might also be a significant factor, since expats aren't a common sight. Still, if my bad experience helps others and communicates the problem to a wider group then it has some value. Forewarned is forearmed. Sounds like spray painting is a good option over the brush, and that box paint dip sounds awesome. I was also thinking, too late again, that a trench cut in the ground lined with a sufficiently long and wide tarp would do the job and save the wood.

BTW: builders use Eucalyptus trees as scaffolding here. I'm curious if this is a widely followed norm tin Thailand. If so, might be a good 'green' business idea for someone to get into renting metal scaffolding as it becomes quite a significant cost for a two story concrete structure.

Ta very much.

Edited September 30, 2010 by nickgonewalkabout

[Artisi]

Quote

Reading everybody's responses, it seems I may have been unwise or unlucky in my choice of builder. Perhaps too there's a combination of other factors including an unwillingness to push workers to do a thorough job, pride mixed with incompetency, and a little anti-falang bias. unquote.

Please tell me who is paying the bill - is it you? Then the builder goes what you want - or that's the way I believe that business is done in most parts of the world and I don't think Thailand has been removed from the world scene as yet.

[Pib]

It may be the builders don't like working with steel as it takes different equipment than nails, hammers, and wood saws. ..and takes some different skills.

I remember about 20 years ago when steel framing started catching on in Hawaii to build houses versus just high rise building. A lot of carpenter union members were very vocal against using steel to build homes/townhouses because it required different tools, new knowledge, and apparently cut down on manhours requirements. But steel was just cheaper than wood and since Hawaii had a big termite problem also the use of steel framing continued to grow and dominates in construction now. It also lowers a person's hurricane and fire insurance premiums since steel is stronger in high winds and don't burn.

[johnnyk]

Sometimes when you are upcountry there is no "good builder" and you have to go with who is available (or who is recommended, often by someone who owes the guy a favour).

Steel is best against termites but good wood is ok. I had a house in France with 300 yr-old oak beams that ate chainsaw chains for a snack.

Edited September 30, 2010 by johnnyk

[selftaopath]

"I can't find a character on my keyboard to demonstrate what the old girders looked like, the ones used to construct New York city in the 30's for example, but in cross-section imagine a T with a line at the bottom of the T, like a rotated H on its side."

You mean an I? They are called I beams.

internationally known as "Double T" beam.

In USA it's called an "I" beam. And if it's standing vertically it's a column.

[selftaopath]

Sometimes when you are upcountry there is no "good builder" and you have to go with who is available (or who is recommended, often by someone who owes the guy a favour).

Steel is best against termites but good wood is ok. I had a house in France with 300 yr-old oak beams that ate chainsaw chains for a snack.

It is difficult for me to understand the lack of options to find suitable contractors/workers etc. My TW uses the rudimentary system of "word of mouth." I find myself really baffled that there seems to not exist a thing like "the yellow pages" "service boards" (located in stores etc. And I'm not even sure if a telephone book exists as so many people can only have mobile phones due to it being Thailand - and it's "issues."

If anyone know a different way other than "word of mouth" or relatives grapevine please let us know.

Regards,

Keoki

[crudski]

"I can't find a character on my keyboard to demonstrate what the old girders looked like, the ones used to construct New York city in the 30's for example, but in cross-section imagine a T with a line at the bottom of the T, like a rotated H on its side."

You mean an I? They are called I beams.

internationally known as "Double T" beam.

In USA it's called an "I" beam. And if it's standing vertically it's a column.

RSJ beams,many names for same thing.

Edited October 2, 2010 by crudski

[khundon]

This is a "Double T Beam".

The one shown in Naams post is an "I beam", Rolled steel Joist/beam.

Google I beam, loads of pics there.

Edited October 6, 2010 by khundon

[nickgonewalkabout]

Quote

Please tell me who is paying the bill - is it you? Then the builder goes what you want - or that's the way I believe that business is done in most parts of the world and I don't think Thailand has been removed from the world scene as yet.

I pay the bills. Yes, your suggestion to withhold payment pending completion of the work is the primary trump card, and I didn't play it. The builder's was asked many times and I set an example by doing it myself but it was obviou he'd considered the job finished, refusing to get into the difficult channels of the C girders, and had the sheet metal roofing on before the next bill was due (I was paying the workers every 15 days). By that time I felt that short of removing the 'suntai' corrugated roofing, the job was too awkward to press. I actully didn't consider witholding payment for several reasons and felt forced to acccept a shoddy job. There was a reluctance to antagonise the builders. I didn't push the point as you suggest,, although I'm witholding a bonus I had planned on paying. I would've paid more to have the job done correclty, but money ddin't appear to be the issue. It was more a case of bull-headedness. Contractually he wasn't obliged to do anything more than build a house, as we'd not set out any specifics like this before hand. Another mistake. So of course, you have a very good point. With the 20/20 vision of hindsight, I would recommend to others that they get the builder to agree very clearly before hand that these girders be dipped in primer and then enameled before installation. They may not want to enamle until after because the arc-welder doesn't want to smell burning paint all day when he's assembling the girders. My builder even suggested mixing primer and enamel together to shorten the time of application, which of course makes a mockery of genuine attention to detail, and gives you some idea of the sort of adversity one can find when dealing with individuals of volatile temprament.