Shocking Levels Of Graft In Thailand

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NATION ROUNDTABLE

'Shocking levels' of graft

By ACHARA DEBOONME

THE NATION

Public campaigns may be needed to help govt beat corruption: experts

Social media and nationwide public relations campaign were highlighted at a discussion panel as some of the bottom-up measures to fight against graft, given that the problem is escalating. In an unofficial survey, 92 per cent of private company respondents agreed that Thailand's corruption was at a high level.

At a Nation roundtable discussion last Friday, panellists agreed they could not wait for the government to take action, and the private sector and society must take the lead.

"The public need to be guided on how they should act against it. Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors. Thailand shows the capacity in exercising the sanctions in a positive way, but there is no guidance on this," said Utis Kaothien, senior adviser of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NCCC).

Panellists discussed about creating waves of actions through Facebook and a video clip contest, particularly ahead of the International Anti-Corruption Conference (IACC) in November, when global delegates will convene in Bangkok to discuss progress against corruption.

Thailand Development Research Institute research director for economic governance Dr Duenden Nikomborirak noted that TDRI plans to launch a quarterly monitoring report, based on news reports. For example, how many pieces of articles during the period were targeted at a particular minister. With improvement, few pieces would show up in the next quarter.

"This should tell the public what is going on. We will track down the trend," she said.

NACC Commissioner Pakdi Pothisiri said the NACC's network of good citizens, which encompasses 1.7 million members, could be used to support this course. They can monitor the situation in Bangkok and rural areas.

Utis noted that all efforts should be done to echo the message that corruption could plunge a nation in one generation, as happened in the Philippines.

Charnchai Charuvastr, president of the Thai Institute of Directors (IOD), agreed. At the discussion, he also revealed the astonishing finding from the survey whereby 4,000 companies were asked to give views on corruption. So far, 700 companies have submitted the questionnaires.

Forty-five per cent of respondents said the corruption problem in the country is at the highest level and 47 per cent think it is high level. While 36 per cent believe that the problem tends to escalate, 53 per cent believe that corruption will stay at this level.

While 55 per cent of respondents admitted that the problem has affected the economy, 33 per cent said the effect was at a "disastrous" level. Forty-nine per cent said corruption had eaten into their revenue by 20 per cent. Forty-nine per cent of respondents blamed corruption as the stumbling block for the country development. Forty-per cent is convinced that the anti-graft policies in the past five years were a failure.

"Companies are ready to help in fighting against graft only 14 per cent are ready to join the effort unconditionally. This is disappointing. In this fight, we need cooperation from the social sector. We need to accelerate on creating good cells to kill the growing number of bad cells. For this, we need a wide-based PR campaign," Charnchai said.

-- The Nation 2010-10-04

[cloudhopper]

I'm shocked, just shocked.

[sjjmmi]

Unbelievable

[Just1Voice]

Graft? Corruption? In Thailand??? Sorry, just don't believe it.

[whybother]

panellists agreed they could not wait for the government to take action, and the private sector and society must take the lead.

What makes them think the private sector or society will want to fix the problem? It's not only the government that are corrupt in Thailand.

[overhaul38]

I'm shocked that they are shocked. Now back to the news.

[OzMick]

" Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors." <deleted> does this mean?

[Humphrey Bear]

It takes two to tango.

If a government contract is n offer there will be many bidders. The one who pays the highest bribe will probably get the contract - unless there is a close relative of a senior government official on the bidding list. Nepotism outweighs most bribes.

But even in Western countries trade associations control the bidding for many large contracts, just as corrupt. Where there is money to be made, there is corruption.

[Pib]

Any large reduction in corruption will require a mind set change in society and aggressive enforcement of laws. It would be a decade(s) long change. Right now society at large seems to consider corruption as a bad thing, but at the same time, have the feeling they can do nothing about it.

The government cracking down on corruption by rooting out corrupt government officials in a very open public campaign might be a good start....and this is not to imply there is not plenty of corruption in the private sector also. But the government needs to start cleaning its own house before it tries to focus on cleaning up the private sector house. When the private sector sees the government cleaning its own house, the private sector will start doing some cleaning on its own.

Ain't no easy or quick answers to greatly reducing corruption...but answers do exists...and the answers will probably take a generation or more to implement.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Pib

[nikster]

panellists agreed they could not wait for the government to take action, and the private sector and society must take the lead.

What makes them think the private sector or society will want to fix the problem? It's not only the government that are corrupt in Thailand.

Huh? Only the government can end it. It starts there, and it extends everywhere. Also, only the government could - if willing - enforce laws, etc.

The private sector must play along. "Society" - who is that, exactly?

[mca]

"The public need to be guided on how they should act against it. Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors. Thailand shows the capacity in exercising the sanctions in a positive way, but there is no guidance on this," said Utis Kaothien, senior adviser of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NCCC).

" And if you give me 50000 baht in an unmarked brown envelope I'll tell you exactly what guidance is needed." Khun Utis added.

[steppenwolf108]

Until early '90, Italy used to have one of the highest level of corruption in the world, especially within the Government sector.

It took almost a decade and plenty of high profile court cases, incarcerations of "untouchable", confiscation of family assets, banning of political parties and executives, reshuffling within army and police....the fall of the gods, in a word.

The whole process went under the name "Tangentopoli" (The City of Bribes) and saw Italy moving to a better and modern form of society.

It was painful but absolutely necessary.

The Italians were fed up with the system and it took a group of energetic and committed lawyers and judges to bring it down [unfortunately, these very same people established a new form of power controlling the State].

Such revolution was supported in Italy by the education of people in politics and civil rights, values that Thai people are lacking greatly!

I see Thais complaining about corruption and at the same time, they embrace it as part of their normal life....

[asiawatcher]

" Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors." <deleted> does this mean?

I could probably respond here with the agencies representing actors here who charge high figures, disclose low amounts to their actors then when found out tell the actors they will black ban them from work. This accounts for millions of Baht weekly. In recent cases - one Farang agent in Omni Tower and another Thai Production company around Sukhumvit Soi 26 - refused to pay an actor. Amount ripped off - about Baht 75,000. In another instance a major Thai model agency paid an actress 30,000 and she later found out her fee was 200,000, if you like Mac's you will recognise the name.

This is endemic and ongoing and no-one can do anything about it as the actors work without work permits thus the agencies take advantage of them.

But on the issue of graft and corruption it is how all Thai business is done and it is payment for favours. No amount of conventions or anti-corruption forums will solve this unless law and order is restored and Police act in accordance with law. Then Judges need to hand down stiff sentences for those who are corrupt and assets seized and sold off at public auctions. Once the actions speak louder than political BS it may actually work. China executes many for corruption - not a bad idea to keep the Thai populace under control! LOL.

[kropotkin]

During my last visit to Thailand, I spend less than 1 hour on the road before being ambushed by a well known uniformed gang... 200 baht (that is a day's wages for most thais). The 3 thai with me were ambarrassed, but said nobody can do anything about it.

But best joke of all: when i got married we had to pay under the table to obtain .... a certificate of good behaviour for my wife....

.

[geriatrickid]

The end of corruption in Thailand must start at the top.. A lofty notion, but impractible as I anticipate 90%+ of positions would be vacated and the country would then grind to a halt.

[Pib]

During my last visit to Thailand, I spend less than 1 hour on the road before being ambushed by a well known uniformed gang... 200 baht (that is a day's wages for most thais). The 3 thai with me were ambarrassed, but said nobody can do anything about it.

But best joke of all: when i got married we had to pay under the table to obtain .... a certificate of good behaviour for my wife....

.

Your ambush must have been in the provinces; here in Bangkok an ambush usually costs you 400 baht.

[kropotkin]

During my last visit to Thailand, I spend less than 1 hour on the road before being ambushed by a well known uniformed gang... 200 baht (that is a day's wages for most thais). The 3 thai with me were ambarrassed, but said nobody can do anything about it.

But best joke of all: when i got married we had to pay under the table to obtain .... a certificate of good behaviour for my wife....

.

Your ambush must have been in the provinces; here in Bangkok an ambush usually costs you 400 baht.

In Samut Prakarn....... but thai driver.

555 Double standards in extortion???

[Thailand]

Corruption in Thailand will not disappear in many lifetimes, if ever, it is endemic and part of the lifestyle and culture.

[BigBikeBKK]

Brown mafia tried to do me on the way to Khon Kaen over the weekend but I just ignored 'em and drove on. TiT :jap:

[IAMSOBAD]

Here is the sad truth.

All over the world it turns out the strongest advocates against corruption usually have skeletons and demons in their own closet.

Elliott Spitzer...Rudy Guilianni...had sex scandals!

Thailand will end corruption when elephants fly.

[bridge]

" Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors." <deleted> does this mean?

Seconded - makes no sense whatsoever.

[phiphidon]

" Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors." <deleted> does this mean?

Seconded - makes no sense whatsoever.

Apparently some "famous actress" has had a kid and said the father was another "famous actor" who denied it. Then his publishing company got heavy on him and cancelled his future jobs. He tearfully apologised and got his jobs back. Then some other guy in the publishing company got involved and said that the actress was a bit of a slapper and was "seeing" 4 other guys at the time she got pregnant AND that she tried to get 250,000 dollars off each of them to keep quiet about their parental status - allegedly. THEN the public got involved and called for a mass boycott of the publishing companys' products because they think their favourite actress isn't the soi bike she's being made out to be.

The implication being the public only get wound up enough to demand justice over a soap actresses love life, not in important things like corruption. Well that's my take on it.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Here is the sad truth.

All over the world it turns out the strongest advocates against corruption usually have skeletons and demons in their own closet.

Elliott Spitzer...Rudy Guilianni...had sex scandals!

Accidental green. I meant to give you red...what in heaven's name are you dribbling about? What does fighting corruption have to do someone's personal life?

As attorney general' date=' Spitzer prosecuted cases relating to corporate white collar crime, securities fraud, internet fraud and environmental protection. He most notably pursued cases against companies involved in computer chip price fixing, investment bank stock price inflation, predatory lending practices by mortgage lenders, fraud at American International Group, and the 2003 mutual fund scandal. He also sued Richard Grasso, the former chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, claiming he had failed to fully inform the board of directors of his deferred compensation package, which exceeded $140 million.[/size']

Spitzer was a client of a prostitution ring under investigation by the federal (i.e. GOP) government.

His 'crime' was breaking a ridiculous, immoral and antiquated 'law' which pertains to regulate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. How is that...demonic? How is it even relevant?

As U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York' date=' Giuliani focused on organized crime and corruption in government. He amassed a record of 4,152 convictions and 25 reversals. In the Mafia Commission Trial (February 25, 1985–November 19, 1986), Giuliani indicted eleven organized crime figures, including the heads of New York's so-called "Five Families", under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) on charges including extortion, labor racketeering, and murder for hire. Time magazine called this "Case of Cases" possibly "the most significant assault on the infrastructure of organized crime since the high command of the Chicago Mafia was swept away in 1943". Eight defendants were found guilty on all counts and subsequently sentenced on January 13, 1987 to hundreds of years of prison time.

Ivan Boesky was a Wall Street arbitrageur who had amassed a fortune of about $200 million by betting on corporate takeovers. He was investigated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission for making investments based on tips received from corporate insiders. These stock acquisitions were sometimes brazen, with massive purchases occurring only a few days before a corporation announced a takeover. Although insider trading of this kind was illegal, laws prohibiting it were rarely enforced until Boesky was prosecuted. Boesky cooperated with the SEC and informed on several others, including junk bond trader Michael Milken. Per agreement with Giuliani, Boesky received a 3½ year prison sentence along with a $100 million fine. In 1989, Giuliani charged Milken under the RICO Act with 98 counts of racketeering and fraud. In a highly-publicized case, Milken was indicted by a grand jury on these charges.

[i']Guiliani had an affair.[/i]

Here is the sad truth.

All over the world it turns out the strongest advocates against corruption usually have skeletons and demons in their own closet.

Elliott Spitzer...Rudy Guilianni...had sex scandals!

Aren't they just the WORST? Fighting organised crime and corruption...whilst - gasp - sleeping with women.

[onnut]

" Social sanctions exist in Thailand, but mostly against nonsense issues like actors." <deleted> does this mean?

Seconded - makes no sense whatsoever.

Apparently some "famous actress" has had a kid and said the father was another "famous actor" who denied it. Then his publishing company got heavy on him and cancelled his future jobs. He tearfully apologised and got his jobs back. Then some other guy in the publishing company got involved and said that the actress was a bit of a slapper and was "seeing" 4 other guys at the time she got pregnant AND that she tried to get 250,000 dollars off each of them to keep quiet about their parental status - allegedly. THEN the public got involved and called for a mass boycott of the publishing companys' products because they think their favourite actress isn't the soi bike she's being made out to be.

The implication being the public only get wound up enough to demand justice over a soap actresses love life, not in important things like corruption. Well that's my take on it.

Yeah, the Thais do have a diferent agender in life to what we are used to. when these people want to stand up and fight something they can do it very well, I just dont understand why they do not stand up to corruption because that is the only way to fix the problem.

why would a copper or member of parlament or a CEO want to stop corruption? they wouldnt! and thats because they are gaining from it. It wouldnt suprise me if in a few years time some Lawyer who came from the sticks and became a lawyer just through hard work and not because his family had money pops up and makes a name for himself by starting the process of taking these people on and putting an end to corruption.

but then we would all be complaining that we had to go to court over a speeding fine and Thailand is getting to much like the west. I dunno, cant have your cake and eat it too! I think we should all just enjoy Thailand while we can.

[JibJab]

I'm shocked, just shocked.

I was so shocked that I was shocked again, it's shocking and I have never seen this more than 2 to 3 times a week/day.

[cup-O-coffee]

So, the people on the beach all agree that the swimmer is, indeed, drowning. They are certain about this, right? They really really got it right this time, yes? Interesting! I wonder what their next reaction will be: another conference to discuss the findings of more needed research? I thought only NGO's did that? I am getting all warm and fuzzy inside.

[RedNIvar]

TIT. There is a thin line between "Acceptable Levels" and "Shocking Levels".

[alex_aka_P]

Public campaigns may be needed to help govt beat corruption

Help?? What kind of help, for gods' sake, do they need from us for more??

They request US to do their part of their direct jobs. Ok, never mind. Where could I get my tax money refunded back to me? What? NOWHERE?? There is nothing left behind after their previous but (surprise!!) unsuccessfull "tries"???

Sorry, than NO extra help. Just do your direct duties PROPERLY, morons - and get paid for the results, not for the "tries". YAWN.

[Deeral]

Despite the sardonic, sarcastic and derisory remarks on this thread, I would suggest that even those people don't fully comprehend the extent ad pervasiveness of corruption and graft in Thailand.

I've worked in both small and large companies and with govt departments for nearly a decade now and I seldom meet a foreigner who has even the slightest idea or the most basic grasp of how extensive the practices are.

think of a number and multiply it by that number....and you might be half way there!

Edited October 4, 2010 by Deeral

[nikster]

The end of corruption in Thailand must start at the top.. A lofty notion, but impractible as I anticipate 90%+ of positions would be vacated and the country would then grind to a halt.

It was a long time ago but I often wonder - how did Singapore do it? Surely that place was just as corrupt as any other SEA country at one point? Now they are usually in the top 5 of countries with the least corruption...

So I can't imagine how one would ever get rid of corruption so ingrained into everything and every day life - but it's been done before, right?