Work Permit

[mijan246]

Simple question "Do you need a work permit to teach at a Government School"?

[paully]

Simple answer: Yes - to work there legally. The school should help you obtain the WP, or at least complete the paperwork (and, hopefully, pay for the WP issue fee) but not all do unfortunately.

[Neeranam]

Simple answer: Yes - to work there legally. The school should help you obtain the WP, or at least complete the paperwork (and, hopefully, pay for the WP issue fee) but not all do unfortunately.

Not that simple mate.

I worked at many govt. schools without a WP and I know many teachers who still do, so I would say, simply NO.

Of course, legally YES, but are the Dept of labour going to do you? Of course not.

Too much paranoia with new teachers these days.

[kenkannif]

Yes, you need a work permit to work there legally. But many teachers don't have one.

I've heard though you don't get a teachers licence at Gov schools? Not sure if it's all of them though.

[mijan246]

Yes, you need a work permit to work there legally. But many teachers don't have one.

I've heard though you don't get a teachers licence at Gov schools? Not sure if it's all of them though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kenkannif did you mean you don't get or you don't need. Reason behind the question I have seen Government schools advertise and then state no WP or Visa provided (by them)

Dear applicants,

.

6. We are sorry to say that we don’t have any experience about visa or work permit .We cannot provide those for you if you ask for.

I have edited the correspondece to safeguard the school as I believe their intent is good but?? this flys in the face of - you must have WP & V to be legal or are they skirting the issue by saying they cannot meaning you must do it if you want it?

[impossible_me]

I dont know about permit work i

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's a polite way of saying:

"We employ foreign teachers illegally or through a variety of shady, half-baked schemes which make Amway look respectable (hey, wait, in Thailand Amway *is* respectable!). The mission, if you choose to accept it, will be outlined in a semi-contract which will spell out the terms that we think you might accept, which will apply when we want them to and not otherwise, at which point the contract reverts to what we Thai people call toilet paper. If you are the type of person who expects professionalism, legality, honesty, or kept promises, this job isn't for you. Unless 18K is enough- how about 20K? Awww, c'mon, 25K's our final offer. Please, we need a teacher (until vacation)!"

"Steven"

[Thaiboxer]

Teachers' licenses are not needed to work at a government school and therefore you won't get one through them. If you do get a work permit, the immigration dept will simply put a stamp in your passport stating that you are a teacher. I had one of these stamps for my first job at a government high school. With regards to these schools stating that they don't provide work permits I would have to give them credit for being straight forward. Many will advertise that they provide work permits, visas, the whole nine yards but in reality it's often not the case. If the school does get you one, they may or may not make you pay for it. If you have to pay, the fee for a one year permit is 3,000 baht. If they ask for more then you have to be suspicious. A six month work permit is 1,500 baht. Government schools can more or less hire whomever they please so people who don't have degrees, TEFL training or teaching experience will find it much easier than trying to land a job at a private school or a university. The contracts between teachers and schools don't carry the same weight they would in the West so if a teacher breaks a contract, the chances of anything serious happening to him/her are minimal. When you hear these horror stories of foreigners getting in deep trouble over things like work permits, college degrees and contracts it's often because they managed to upset the wrong people. Teachers come and go so frequently here that if a teacher takes off without notice the school will usually replace him/her within a week or so.

Some folks really enjoy working in government schools. Teaching high school kids was a big challenge for me since I had little experience at the time and their attitudes really tested my patience. It was a real shock going in there the first day but after a week or so it was easier. Most importantly, I learned some valuable teaching lessons from that place. Here is some advice: the contract will most likely be in Thai. Get a Thai family member or trusted friend to translate for you. You may find some interesting points in there. Take it easy and don't let them jerk you around. Good luck!

[mijan246]

Teachers' licenses are not needed to work at a government school and therefore you won't get one through them. If you do get a work permit, the immigration dept will simply put a stamp in your passport stating that you are a teacher. I had one of these stamps for my first job at a government high school. With regards to these schools stating that they don't provide work permits I would have to give them credit for being straight forward. Many will advertise that they provide work permits, visas, the whole nine yards but in reality it's often not the case. If the school does get you one, they may or may not make you pay for it. If you have to pay, the fee for a one year permit is 3,000 baht. If they ask for more then you have to be suspicious. A six month work permit is 1,500 baht. Government schools can more or less hire whomever they please so people who don't have degrees, TEFL training or teaching experience will find it much easier than trying to land a job at a private school or a university. The contracts between teachers and schools don't carry the same weight they would in the West so if a teacher breaks a contract, the chances of anything serious happening to him/her are minimal. When you hear these horror stories of foreigners getting in deep trouble over things like work permits, college degrees and contracts it's often because they managed to upset the wrong people. Teachers come and go so frequently here that if a teacher takes off without notice the school will usually replace him/her within a week or so.

Some folks really enjoy working in government schools. Teaching high school kids was a big challenge for me since I had little experience at the time and their attitudes really tested my patience. It was a real shock going in there the first day but after a week or so it was easier. Most importantly, I learned some valuable teaching lessons from that place. Here is some advice: the contract will most likely be in Thai. Get a  Thai family member or trusted friend to translate for you. You may find some interesting points in there. Take it easy and don't let them jerk you around. Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thaiboxer thank you for the input it adds weight to the earlier post from kenkannif and yes the particular school in question were being very upfront and I mean that in the very nicest of ways.

[PeaceBlondie]

My first two jobs were teaching matayom in govt. schools in a province. They never pretended they could help me, but one time, one boss went through the opening interlude to getting me a WP.

It's totally illegal to work without a work permit. And in some places, it's very hard to find a school that will get you one.

In some ways, it makes your visa/passport issues less complicated. But you still have to do visa runs during the year and then, when your visa expires, what's a farang to do? Fly to Houston?

[kenkannif]

IJWT pretty much summed it up in his post as to why they don't want to know how to get you a WP. I mean if I a farang knows the basic procedure....why can't they find it out? Maybe pick up the phone, call their local branch of the MoE or Labor Dept. and say, "So if we want to employ a farang teacher legally.....err what do we have to do?". It don't seem hard to me!

TB ###### good post Spot on and then some!

[Thaiboxer]

TB ###### good post  Spot on and then some!

Thank you kenfaniff

What PB said regarding provincial government schools is very accurate. Many schools in BKK seem to know little about getting work permits and visas for their teachers. This is to an even greater extent in the provinces. The MOE and the Labor Dept have been tightening up their regulations in the past few years but for the vast majority of farangs in Thailand it's still easy to find a job and in BKK it's often a matter of choosing which one suits you best. There is such a high demand for teachers these days that regardless of how strict the rules become, I think many schools will break these rules and hire people anyway. Some schools will even stick up for you if you do end up in trouble with the Labor Dept or MOE. This may entail a simple phone call or perhaps a letter from the director (principal).

Something I forgot to mention in my last post: TAX. Many schools will not deduct income taxes from your wages. Without a work permit, there is no need to pay taxes of course since you're not supposed to be working in the first place. Many schools pay their teachers in cash so there is no paper trail. If you do have a work permit, it's best to get a tax card from your local government office. You'll need a Thai family member or trusted friend to help you fill out the forms and to speak with the staff. The taxes here seem to be relatively low compared to those in the West even though most teachers earn what is considered a VERY good wage by Thai standards. If you're married to a Thai the taxes are even lower. If you have children the taxes should be even lower than that. It's funny how the law works: You can pay taxes without a work permit but it's illegal to work without a permit. Most of these regulations are not strictly enforced....unless you get into trouble with the wrong folks. Good luck!

[lostsoul]

The majority of teachers I have come into contact with should not be teaching. Work Permits again the majority do not have one. Its the last task before going home, desperation stakes, if you are teaching its because you cannot do anything else, bit of a joke really.

Go home and work and stop embarrising the farang that are here legally and living here legally.

Edited July 26, 2005 by lostsoul

[Ijustwannateach]

^You know, my hourly rates are not that high, and I'd charge you only as an English teacher, not at the rate I usually charge for teaching my own field. You could use a refresher course, apparently. Are you in BKK?

"Steven"

[paully]

^ Thanks, lostsoul, but-clearly-not-a-kind-soul. Shall I go home now and find a real job, sir, to stop 'embarrising' [sic] you

[mijan246]

Being the OP I believe we have had some good input on WP & Visa's, it has been informative to me any way and now before it turns into another "teacher bashing" it would be nice to close off with a thanks for the input lets close it out.

How you request that I am not sure so hopefully someone with more knowledge about the ins & outs of the forum could arrange this.

[Rumpole]

kenkannif did you mean you don't get or you don't need. Reason behind the question I have seen Government schools advertise and then state no WP or Visa provided (by them)

Dear applicants,

.

6. We are sorry to say that we don’t have any experience about visa or work permit .We cannot provide those for you if you ask for.

I have edited the correspondece to safeguard the school as I believe their intent is good but?? this flys in the face of - you must have WP & V to be legal or are they skirting the issue  by saying they cannot meaning you must do it if you want it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an absolute cop out. I certainly don't believe that "their intent is good". If they want to employ a farang teacher, they should be prepared to get their collective fingers out of their various orifices and provide a work permit. Of course, the system is so ludicrously convoluted that they are just as daunted at the prospect as most farang. This is not, however, an acceptable excuse. The only redeeming factor is that at least they are being up front with the fact that they have no intention of providing a work permit or any assistance in getting one. Most places just lie, procrastinate, and make false promises.

Even though the likelihood of detection and/or punishment is fairly remote, working without a permit is still illegal. Given the xenophobia of the current administration, together with their predilection for sudden and sporadic enforcement of previously ignored laws, who knows when the situation could drastically change? Of course, it will not be the Thai school administrators who are looking at a spell in the IDC.

I really don’t understand why anyone with options would seek to work for a pittance as an illegal immigrant in a Third World country. If you wish to work as a teacher, there are plenty of other countries in the region which will allow you to do so and not expect you to work illegally.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Rumpole

[kenkannif]

^ I kind of agree.

But if it's cool with you Mijan (I'll re-open if you like?) I'll lock this now!